Character Discussion Thread

[ChikoLad]

TBH, I would rather keep Wolf and cut Falco. This is coming from a guy who mains Falco in Melee.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I honestly don't understand why people think the factor of popularity alone is enough for Lucas, R.O.B., and Wolf to be cut. None of them exactly got in Smash in the first place because of popularity. People could argue that it's on part of them sans R.O.B. being clones, but those same people seem to forget a character doesn't solely consist of Specials and a Final Smash (at which point pressing the goddamn attack button shows they have different moves). None of them have a time-consuming mechanic like Pokemon Trainer nor are any of them 3rd-party.

Seriously, if there's a legitimate reason why they could be cut that doesn't already extend to every character not a part of the Original 12, I've yet to hear one.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I see Falco as the more likely cut if it comes down to the Star Fox, Wolf is much more diverse than Falco in terms of moveset.

 

[IsmaR]

"I didn't like or use them, so it's okay if they get cut."

I can't see Falco not returning. He's more a Luigi than Luigi is by now.

 

[N3ON]

I still really don't see why Lucas would be cut... Sakurai has wanted him since Melee and it's not like we'd get a new Mother character in his place.

 

[SomewhatMystia]

I still really don't see why Lucas would be cut... Sakurai has wanted him since Melee and it's not like we'd get a new Mother character in his place.

Which is a huge shame, because I feel like Jeff or the guy with the staples from Mother 3, Duster I think? Anyway, either of those guys could be pretty neat to play as.

 

[ChikoLad]

I think the Wolf argument, at the very least, makes no sense considering Falco has way more similarities to Fox than Wolf does. And I'd rather keep Wolf because he's another villain (he's at least a rival to Fox), and in a series where a concrete hero/villain relationship exists, I'd rather have them than hero/right hand man (Ridley being the only exception, though Samus doesn't really have any partners who'd be good Smash candidates either).

In truth, I don't want any cuts, but if I have to choose, I'd keep Wolf and cut Falco. I like Falco, but the relationship between Wolf and Fox is more interesting to me, and I feel Wolf had a unique enough moveset to feel almost completely different from Fox.

I also feel like that around here, the only two "mandatory" requirements for getting into Smash are "the character is recognisable (not loved for who they are - just their existence is known)", or "the character is a badass in some way".

 

[The Light Music Club]

I did end up doing some major tweaking with my roster input with the new information that the Smash Bros. Direct revealed to us...

Lucas comes back, and considering the amount of positive reception that Xenoblade Chronicles seems to have, Shulk has been added. Pac-Man has also been included, seeing as there has been some Namco representation.

Regarding Ridley, until we know which Ridley incarnation is the stage hazard, THE Ridley is still fair game.

Edit: Starting roster update.

What I don't understand at all is, that Toon Link, Lucas, Wolf, and Falco ALL return; and Mario gets six reps, while Ike gets the boot. If everyone except for Ike is coming back, that would be the dumbest thing I've seen in a video game ever.


Also in terms of advertising, I'd say smash works. It's gotten me to play Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Ice Climber, and attempt to play Earthbound.

Because of speculation, I've played Kid Icarus (Palutena), Panel de Pon (Lip), went and got Xenoblade (Shulk) have yet play it and plan on playing Rhythm Heaven at some point (Marshall)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's tough to say who would be cut. Especially if Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't. Even though I think they are.

I can see Snake getting the boot, which would make it three. I don't want to see Ike leave, and frankly, I don't know why he WOULD get cut. The only reason I could see a Star Fox character or Lucas get the boot is because of gameplay, but at the same time, he's a good character. It's a tough situation.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Wolf has been in Starfox since the beginning.

(BUZZER) Wolf never appeared until StarFox 64

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Which is a huge shame, because I feel like Jeff or the guy with the staples from Mother 3, Duster I think? Anyway, either of those guys could be pretty neat to play as.

Neat to play as, but far from worth replacing Lucas for. As unrealistic as it'd be, though, any third Mother series character (short of Ninten, yes, I just went there) would be a great addition to the roster. Not necessarily warranted, but sure as heck fun.

If everyone except for Ike is coming back, that would be the dumbest thing I've seen in a video game ever.

*Cue the hundreds of examples that could prove that claim wrong*

For example, everyone except for Ike is coming back, who is replaced with Owain.

 

[The Light Music Club]

It's tough to say who would be cut. Especially if Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't. Even though I think they are.

I can see Snake getting the boot, which would make it three. I don't want to see Ike leave, and frankly, I don't know why he WOULD get cut. The only reason I could see a Star Fox character or Lucas get the boot is because of gameplay, but at the same time, he's a good character. It's a tough situation.

I think every clone will be back now that Toon Link will be back. The only other character I see getting cut would be Snake do to licensing. Ike might be the Mewtwo though, and be low priority this time and be the only completely original moveset to get the boot cause of time. But I don't think that will happen.

 

[ChikoLad]

Ike should never be cut because Ike fights for his friends, and I believe this makes him a positive role model for the competitive Smash community at large, who fight only for fame, glory, and money.

 

[Rockaphin]

If Wolf or Falco must be cut, I honestly think Wolf should be in before Falco. I prefer having the protagonist and the antagonist first, and then the other major characters.
It doesn't help that I hate Falco.

Chrom: Well, I guess thats cool! Wouldn't mind seeing him.

Shulk: Don't care.

Palutena: Also don't care about. Probably the only person on the planet that doesn't understand her hype.

I have to admit that I agree with this. I like Palutena but I personally don't understand why she is so hyped compared to other characters.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Neat to play as, but far from worth replacing Lucas for. As unrealistic as it'd be, though, any third Mother series character (short of Ninten, yes, I just went there) would be a great addition to the roster. Not necessarily warranted, but sure as heck fun.

*Cue the hundreds of examples that could prove that claim wrong*

For example, everyone except for Ike is coming back, who is replaced with Owain.

Well that would fall under Ike being cut...

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

They would probably cut Falco over Wolf to add in Krystal because Fox, Falco, and Krystal wouldn't balance out due to the complete lack of villains. If cuts are made to the StarFox roster, the finalized StarFox roster would be Fox, Krystal, and Wolf.

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't think either should be cut. But if I had to choose, I'd rather keep Wolf. He has the most amount of unique moves between the two. Either way, both of them need to get some new Final Smashes.

 

[ChikoLad]

If Falco is back, he should at least ride an Arwing as his Final Smash. If Fox doesn't have this, Falco should, becaus POISSANALLY, he prefoys de AAAAAAAAAIIIIIR.

 

[IsmaR]

I still remember that hack/moveset swap for Fox with Sonic's specials made him spawn a golden Arwing for his Up Special.

To this day it makes me feel like the Landmaster was a cop out even for the original user of it.

 

[Oblivion129]

If Wolf or Falco are to be cut, I'd expect Wolf to be cut. He might be a villain and all that but there's a reason Falco was Fox's clone in Melee and not Wolf.
Plus we had Mario and Luigi in SSB64 instead of Mario and Bowser. DK and Diddy instead of DK and King K. Rool. And we're probably getting Pit and Palutena instead of Pit and Medusa/Hades.

 

[The Light Music Club]

If Wolf or Falco are to be cut, I'd expect Wolf to be cut. He might be a villain and all that but there's a reason Falco was Fox's clone in Melee and not Wolf.
Plus we had Mario and Luigi in SSB64 instead of Mario and Bowser. DK and Diddy instead of DK and King K. Rool. And we're probably getting Pit and Palutena instead of Pit and Medusa/Hades.

Just wanted to point out that Bowser was planned for 64, as well as the other 2 villains in Dedede and Mewtwo. But I see what you mean, and it makes sense also in the fact Falco has been around for a game more than Wolf.

Also, roster wise it looks like we will have popular wii characters and early 3DS and DS characters (Pre-Kid Icarus excluding Palutena and Pokemon of course) much as we got popular Gamecube Characters and early DS/GBA characters (Excluding Pokemon) for Brawl.

Brawl had ones Wario (Warioware DS), Ike (Fire Emblem: PoR for GCN), Toon Link (Gamecube), Pokemon Trainer (Revived on GBA)

S4 has Little Mac (Punch Out Wii), Villager (AC: City Folk), Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina (SMG) (Possibly Shulk from Xenoblade on Wii)

Maybe a stretch, Idk.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Actually, one good thing about the Chorus Men is that, if they were to be in, this further proves the point that that from the point of view of Sakurai, the number of "good" Nintendo characters left to choose aren't getting more limited at all and thus probably won't feel like he would "need" non-video game characters such as Goku to hype up future games as opposed to relying on established obscure Nintendo characters for a good roster, regardless of obscurity.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Actually, one good thing about the Chorus Men is that, if they were to be in, this further proves the point that that from the point of view of Sakurai, the number of "good" Nintendo characters left to choose aren't getting more limited at all and thus probably won't feel like he would "need" non-video game characters such as Goku to hype up future games as opposed to relying on established obscure Nintendo characters for a good roster, regardless of obscurity.

However, I think the third party Rhythm characters of Phantom R, Samba, from Sega, and any Idol from IdolM@ster from Namco would be better. But yeah, I think you're right.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Well that would fall under Ike being cut...

My point being it can get much worse than simply "Brawl - Ike".

They would probably cut Falco over Wolf to add in Krystal because Fox, Falco, and Krystal wouldn't balance out due to the complete lack of villains. If cuts are made to the StarFox roster, the finalized StarFox roster would be Fox, Krystal, and Wolf.

Why would they add in Krystal over Falco? The resources that go into creating newcomers is literally a multiplier rather than addition when they have to be added. It literally makes no sense to replace a two-time veteran, one they merely need to re-implement rather than conceptualize, if they're just going to have 3 Star Fox characters either way. From a development standpoint, it makes plenty more sense to add a character they've already done before. From a newcomer standpoint, Star Fox really doesn't need newcomers compared to Donkey Kong and Metroid. From a commercial standpoint (which should only even apply to Pokemon and Fire Emblem), Krystal hasn't even been in a Nintendo product since Brawl, let alone in a Star Fox game since Star Fox: Command in 2006.

Really, aside from "because she's popular", why should she be added in favor of cutting Falco?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Really, aside from "because she's popular", why should she be added in favor of cutting Falco?

Because she's Fox's vewwwwy speshul sweetheart. More important than just "being popular".

If Wolf or Falco are to be cut, I'd expect Wolf to be cut. He might be a villain and all that but there's a reason Falco was Fox's clone in Melee and not Wolf.
Plus we had Mario and Luigi in SSB64 instead of Mario and Bowser. DK and Diddy instead of DK and King K. Rool. And we're probably getting Pit and Palutena instead of Pit and Medusa/Hades.

Yeah...never thought about it like that before.

It's hard to choose, honestly.

Wolf was more unique in Brawl, but Falco could be made unique in Smash 4 as well.
And Falco is like the "number two" of Star Fox, so I think that trumps being an antagonist.

Although I don't think that was the reason why Falco was chosen over Wolf for the clone. It was just because Sakurai felt like a bird stood out more than a "gray Fox".

-----

 

[ChikoLad]

I just want to point out that, apparently Smash 4 is using the same programming tools as Brawl, and Sakurai has described the process of adding veterans as "porting/bringing over from Brawl". Obviously they make changes, but the toughest part of bringing in veterans is probably the creation of two separate models.

And Falco is like the "number two" of Star Fox, so I think that trumps being an antagonist.

I'm way more inclined to see Peppy as the "Number Two".

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

My point being it can get much worse than simply "Brawl - Ike".

Why would they add in Krystal over Falco? The resources that go into creating newcomers is literally a multiplier rather than addition when they have to be added. It literally makes no sense to replace a two-time veteran, one they merely need to re-implement rather than conceptualize, if they're just going to have 3 Star Fox characters either way. From a development standpoint, it makes plenty more sense to add a character they've already done before. From a newcomer standpoint, Star Fox really doesn't need newcomers compared to Donkey Kong and Metroid. From a commercial standpoint (which should only even apply to Pokemon and Fire Emblem), Krystal hasn't even been in a Nintendo product since Brawl, let alone in a Star Fox game since Star Fox: Command in 2006.

Really, aside from "because she's popular", why should she be added in favor of cutting Falco?

Remember, I said "IF" they made cuts to the StarFox roster.

 

[Morbi]

I just want to point out that, apparently Smash 4 is using the same programming tools as Brawl, and Sakurai has described the process of adding veterans as "porting/bringing over from Brawl". Obviously they make changes, but the toughest part of bringing in veterans is probably the creation of two separate models.



I'm way more inclined to see Peppy as the "Number Two".

I agree, Peppy is much more relevant to the plot. In most cases, Team StarFox is equal, they are all important and they all serve a purpose. However, after Melee, Falco became the definitive "second." That is the influence that Smash can have on a franchise. I mean... some people actually think Roy is important.

 

[ChikoLad]

In actuality, Peppy is "Number One" plot wise. He becomes the overall commander of the team and serves as a father figure to Fox in the absence of James McCloud. I only say Fox is the "Number One" because he's the titular character (and in fairness, he gets **** done, Peppy taught him well), but Peppy feels like the real brains of their team, who even Fox needs to get advice from. Obviously Falco makes more sense as a playable character as Peppy, as he was last seen, he was unable for combat, but I feel Wolf is the next best thing. I like Falco just fine, but I feel Wolf's personality is more interesting in the context of the Star Fox series, and since he already has a more unique moveset than Falco to begin with, as well being a cool villain representative, I'd rather have Wolf before Falco. Ideally I'd take both though, and I am not assuming either is being cut.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

Let's keep Ike, Lucas, Falco, Ness and Wolf pls TY

 

[Morbi]

In actuality, Peppy is "Number One" plot wise. He becomes the overall commander of the team and serves as a father figure to Fox in the absence of James McCloud. I only say Fox is the "Number One" because he's the titular character (and in fairness, he gets **** done, Peppy taught him well), but Peppy feels like the real brains of their team, who even Fox needs to get advice from. Obviously Falco makes more sense as a playable character as Peppy, as he was last seen, was unable for combat, but I feel Wolf is the next best thing. I like Falco just fine, but I feel Wolf's personality is more interesting in the context of the Star Fox series, and since he already has a more unique moveset than Falco to begin with, as well being a cool villain representative, I'd rather have Wolf before Falco. Ideally I'd take both though, and I am not assuming either is being cut.

I completely and utterly agree with this sentiment. I am not sure why anyone would advocate for Wolf's omission over Falco's unless their reason had to do with the number of installments they appeared in (which I find to be immaterial). Wolf was the character originally intended, Wolf is the character with a completely different play-style, and Wolf offers a lot more from the franchise.

 

[Deleted member]

In actuality, Peppy is "Number One" plot wise. He becomes the overall commander of the team and serves as a father figure to Fox in the absence of James McCloud. I only say Fox is the "Number One" because he's the titular character (and in fairness, he gets **** done, Peppy taught him well), but Peppy feels like the real brains of their team, who even Fox needs to get advice from. Obviously Falco makes more sense as a playable character as Peppy, as he was last seen, he was unable for combat, but I feel Wolf is the next best thing. I like Falco just fine, but I feel Wolf's personality is more interesting in the context of the Star Fox series, and since he already has a more unique moveset than Falco to begin with, as well being a cool villain representative, I'd rather have Wolf before Falco. Ideally I'd take both though, and I am not assuming either is being cut.

Absolutely agree. Falco was put in first and foremost because of his appearance, also because of his role in the StarFox games as the second most able fighter. Although I would've much preferred Slippy or Peppy to take that role, even if they weren't as rushdown-based and quite frankly, as dull and lifeless as I find Falco's take on Fox's set. They'd actually bring some interesting personality to a moveset and both are far more legendary than Falco.

Wolf is the only other StarFox character besides Fox who truly deserves a place from that franchise, in my opinion, anything else is a huge boon for its fans. He's a proper rival and about as notorious as Peppy or Slippy. I'd honestly take Peppy, Slippy or Pigma over Falco.

 

[Morbi]

Absolutely agree. Falco was put in first and foremost because of his appearance, also because of his role in the StarFox games as the second most able fighter. Although I would've much preferred Slippy or Peppy to take that role, even if they weren't as rushdown-based and quite frankly, as dull and lifeless as I find Falco's take on Fox's set. They'd actually bring some interesting personality to a moveset and both are far more legendary than Falco.

Wolf is the only other StarFox character besides Fox who truly deserves a place from that franchise, in my opinion, anything else is a huge boon for its fans. He's a proper rival and about as notorious as Peppy or Slippy. I'd honestly take Peppy, Slippy or Pigma over Falco.

Falco needed Smash before he could get his own meme, pathetic! Peppy, Wolf, and Slippy are OLD SCHOOL, son!

Edit- I would have loved to see Slippy taking a more klutzy take on Fox's move-set to be honest, Falco's "aggressive" take is fairly redundant. It isn't like Fox wasn't aggressive. So they tried to make Falco flashy...

 

[ChikoLad]

At this stage, I think Falco "has more priority" to most people because he's a fan favourite in Melee (especially on this website, being competitively oriented and favouring Melee, and Falco is one of the "symbols of competitive Smash" at this point). But even as someone who mains Falco in Melee, I just can't say he deserves priority because so many people enjoy using him. Which is hypocritical of me, because one of the main reasons why I hope there are not cuts is because I understand how losing a character you spent ages practicing as in the sequel to a fighter is kind of upsetting, but I feel Falco fans would not suffer from losing him as much as say, Snake fans would from losing Snake, because chances are if you can play Falco well, you can play Fox well, where as Snake is completely unique.

 

[Morbi]

At this stage, I think Falco "has more priority" to most people because he's a fan favourite in Melee (especially on this website, being competitively oriented and favouring Melee, and Falco is one of the "symbols of competitive Smash" at this point). But even as someone who mains Falco in Melee, I just can't say he deserves priority because so many people enjoy using him. Which is hypocritical of me, because one of the main reasons why I hope there are not cuts is because I understand how losing a character you spent ages practicing as in the sequel to a fighter is kind of upsetting, but I feel Falco fans would not suffer from losing him as much as say, Snake fans would from losing Snake, because chances are if you can play Falco well, you can play Fox well, where as Snake is completely unique.

I believe that is one of the predominant reasons most clamor to demand that clone characters are removed; Toon Link's early reveal/inclusion would indicate that clone-status is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with whether or not the character is ultimately selected. However, no one wants to lose a unique move-set. That being said, Pokemon Trainer is our first confirmed cut (unless he just returns with Squirtle and Ivysaur for some reason, that would be the troll of the century). He had a unique move-set, he was arguably one of the most unique characters in the roster. I believe that development time is probably one of the more prominent aspects, thus Jigglypuff and Game and Watch are safe in my mind, along with "psudeo-clones" like Falco and Lucas. I expect Falco to return, but if Wolf was cut over Falco for some reason, I would be quite upset.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Remember, I said "IF" they made cuts to the StarFox roster.

So that's your way of saying that since we haven't gotten confirmation of that, it's okay to substitute reason with hopes?

In all seriousness, if we get to that point, I merely think they'll be cut. Rather defeats the point to forgo the easier and safer option of re-adding a veteran by replacing them with a newcomer instead. If they don't have time to re-add all of the veterans of a series, they shouldn't be focusing on adding a newcomer to it. That's my philosophy at least.

 

[Parmite]

Actually, one good thing about the Chorus Men is that, if they were to be in, this further proves the point that that from the point of view of Sakurai, the number of "good" Nintendo characters left to choose aren't getting more limited at all and thus probably won't feel like he would "need" non-video game characters such as Goku to hype up future games as opposed to relying on established obscure Nintendo characters for a good roster, regardless of obscurity.

What do you mean "one good thing"?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

So that's your way of saying that since we haven't gotten confirmation of that, it's okay to substitute reason with hopes?

And who said I was doing that? Both Falco AND Wolf are old school, so it makes perfect sense to replace one with Krystal if one get cut.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

And who said I was doing that? Both Falco AND Wolf are old school, so it makes perfect sense to replace one with Krystal if one get cut.

You say "old school" like that means there's a negative connotation behind it.

Meta Knight is old school. Sounds completely reasonable if we replace him with Magolor, amirite??

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

You say "old school" like that means there's a negative connotation behind it.

Meta Knight is old school. Sounds completely reasonable if we replace him with Magolor, amirite??

That's the Kirby franchise, one that Sakurai created with his bare hands. Nobody's getting replaced from the Kirby franchise!