Character Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

No one thought of Wii Fit Trainer because (in my case) we didn't know it was a character or because we were too busy listening to people argue over minute and quite frankly "no hope" characters (like one Anna), or falsified debates like Medusa vs. the Eggplant Wizard vs. Palutena, Sheik vs. Impa (still causes cancer), and everything Fire Emblem and Pokémon.

Also, if we're going to apply the "because Wii Fit Trainer" idea, apply it to the characters that fit her description:
-Hugely unique and has a moveset, skillset, and playstyle unlike any other potential character.
-The main character of a franchise that has sold over 40 million copies.
-A character that draws a unique market from a unique IP.

I'm sorry, but Anna isn't that. Anna isn't and never will be on the Wii Fit Trainer's level.

And if you're going to pull up that point randomly with no basis, then tell me, did people not say the same thing about Link's Uncle from A Link to the Past=???

The wasn't entirely the point I was trying to convey. If I recall correctly, I also asserted characters like Villager and Rosalina. I was only speaking in terms of Smash 4 mind you (so every character except Mega Man has been an "Anna"). There have been MANY other choices with equivalent situations, albeit mostly retro characters. However, that wasn't always the case. I mean, there were some questionable choices from the VERY conception of Smash such as Ness or the more overt left-field character, my very favorite Jigglypuff.

AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO PULL UP THAT POINT RANDOMLY WITH NO BASIS, quote the entire post.

 

[?????????????]

Palutena is a bad choice because her hair is green.

Poor Lyn.

 

[Gunla]

One argument (which isn't meant to be "against" her, but more along the lines of a Devil's Advocate) is that Sakurai could keep her being part of Pit's Final Smash much like the case with the Toad Shield.

I personally see the situations between the two as different, but one never really knows.

I will say Toad has some importance, but Palutena is far more important in terms of their franchise, which is a serious evasion from move placement. In addition, I believe Pit's Final Smash will become the Sacred Treasures or the Special Attack in midair. They make far more sense than Centurion Rush, which seems like it would be Palutena's Final Smash moreso.

 

[Deleted member]

Palutena is a bad choice because her hair is green.

Maybe if her hair was dyed red and her staff ignited....

 

[Oniric Spriter]

I'm expecting to see Pit using the 3 sacred treasures, it would be really stupid to get rid of the mirror shield which is really iconic to KI as a whole if you're not planning to take it to the next level aka Final Smash.

 

[Starphoenix]

You know, people rejecting the idea of Palutena.

I've seen it come up more ever since those leaks came up.

The only people really advocating for her exclusion are hipsters who just like railing against the more anticipated characters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Maybe if her hair was dyed red and her staff ignited....

She uses Wolf Claws in Palutena's Revolting Dinner, does that count?

 

[Deleted member]

She uses Wolf Claws in Palutena's Revolting Dinner, does that count?

Not unless her hair is red.

 

[Morbi]

I have to agree. With characters that people though would be cut now being confirmed like Toon Link and Lucario, it seems unlikely.

To be completely and utterly fair, the notion is entirely subjective. For instance, I couldn't fathom the more prevalent, prominent, and iconic Link being arbitrarily cut, I didn't envision one of the easiest to develop characters being omitted just because he was a clone. Most people fallaciously wanted him removed from the roster based on a background element, something they found to be sufficient evidence. Thank the lord they weren't serving the United States as jurors.

Lucario was heavily promoted in X and Y, was he not one of the Pokemon essential to the plot of the game? Confirmation bias led many individuals to question his obvious and imminent return. Of course, there are the erroneous assumptions that Mewtwo and Lucario could not co-exist. Hence the rabid 12 year old Mewtwo fans rallied behind his cut.

The point being, we don't know the potential omissions. We are just speculators. Just because 2 characters many expected to be removed, weren't removed, does not mean that we aren't going to receive any omissions. We, as speculators, presume to utilize logic to dictate our perspectives; however, many do not interpret all of the elements that go into a cut. Such as Jigglypuff, I don't want to proclaim that those who advocate her removal are morons, but they are. It is really simple, Sakurai is not going to cut easy to develop characters under time constraints.

Again, the initial notion I wanted to make apparent is that the premise of cutting a character is subjective. None of us are Sakurai, two common cuts returning doesn't insinuate that we will not receive any cuts. This is still early in development, well not necessarily, but the time to cut a character has yet to happen. Likely, we wont actually know until we play the game.

That being said, I am true to my own standards. If Pokemon Trainer returns, I am not automatically going to assume that there will be no cuts. No character's return is a direct indicator of the developmental progress. We are not aware of the priority list. IT IS CLEARLY not the same as Brawl's. CLEARLY. That shouldn't have to be made overt; however, it is one of the reasons that many opposed the return of some of the most likely characters (Toon Link and Jigglypuff).

 

[Deleted member]

Toon Link was most likely?

 

[Cpt.]

New Roster Maker Update = New Roster! RaInBoWs!

I really wanted to put Kyrstal in seeing that the SF series received a new character every game, but it looked weird with no random slot -_- so she's an honorable mention.

Reasonings

Spoiler

Diddy/Dixie I have them in the same picture because I believe it is most likely that Dixie will by a costume for Diddy

King K. Rool I see as a more likely addition to the Roster than Dixie because he is much more unique. I believe that Dixie will only be added over K. Rool if there is a timing issue.

Pac-Man is here not because of the leak, but because I think it is pretty obvious since Namco Bandai is co-developing the game.

No new Zelda rep? The more I thought about it the more unlikely any of the possible new Zelda reps became. I think that Impa would be the only possible addition now (Tingle should stay an assist trophy) and that is only if Sakurai has time to add her in (even Impa is unlikely since it is far-fetched that Sheik could be cut).

Ike stays and Chrom joins. I kept Ike because I think that fire emblem has more than enough games to qualify three reps. I also thought playing Ike in SSBB felt unique.

Shulk I added to his games sales and popularity. I think that this makes him more likely than Isaac, but I would like to have both for sure. I just don't think that it is realistic for that to happen.

Takamaru is my retro rep due to him being in Nintendo Land and Wario Ware. The Nintendo Land thing alone makes him very likely IMO.

I brought Mewtwo back because even with Lucario's reveal I believe he is still likely you can check this video for more. I also kept Pokemon trainer because I thought it was a neat idea and I believe Sakurai would view it the same way.

I added Bandana Dee. Hmmm. Yeah I thought that was an odd addition. It is very unlikely to happen due to King DeDeDe's side B move, but I checked his fan page here and it convinced me that it is a definate possiblity due to Sakurai's major involvement with the characters. The Kirdby series would have likely been brought to his mind second after Kid Ikarus when thinking of new additions.

Ridley, yes I do think Ridley should be in. You can check out my video on him so you can see
1) why he is not too big
2) why the pyrosphere doesn't disconfirm him
3) Ridley pictures set to power ranger music

Palutena is in because Sakurai developed Kid Ikarus Uprising so when thinking of new characters she would probably be the first character to come to his mind.

Whatcha think?

 

[Morbi]

Toon Link was most likely?

Yes. Again, there were a couple of aspects that made it entirely obvious. The initial presumption was the Conductor Link was not the equivalent of Toon Link, who was predominately based on Wind Waker. This was discerned by the Wind Waker music, the Wind Waker stage, the Wind Waker taunt, and the Wind Waker ending that many chose to disregard for some arbitrary reason. Secondly, they also chose to ignore the notion that we have always had a second Link since Melee, the majority of titles (thus making the premise antithetical of unfathomable). Thirdly, the HD remastered Wind Waker that was promoted and marketed to extremities was going to be released, this was during the time that many assumed that a character reveal would correlate with a game reveal (we have since learned differently; however, that was the assumption at the time). Fourthly, Toon Link does offer a different play-style. One that Sakurai would not so easily cut on a whim. There are fans that enjoy the character, why alienate them for such a simple addition? Lastly, his developmental cycle. He is a clone, one of the most direct clones, minimal changes to the original source material that has been programmed for 14 years (at the time). So why would Sakurai omit one of the easiest characters to develop under time constraints? Because people didn't want the most PROMINENT, PREVALENT, and Iconic Link (by extension, that is)? No. Toon Link's return was utterly overt and I spouted off the same reasons prior to his reveal.

Just because he wasn't commonly interpreted as one of the most likely characters doesn't mean he wasn't. Again, the only reason people believed him to be so low on the priority list was Brawl's priority list. Immaterial precedent. A subtle case of confirmation bias was also at work, many don't see the value in clones for whatever reason.

 

[Deleted member]

If Toon Link was one of the most likely to return to Smash 4, then Pichu was one of the most likely to return to Brawl.

As for the whole Conductor Link thing, Sakurai seems to have **** upon that logic now with the whole Alfonzo gimmick.

 

[?????????????]

I really wanted to put Kyrstal in seeing that the SF series received a new character every game, but it looked weird with no random slot -_- so she's an honorable mention.

If you really want Krystal, I don't see a problem getting rid of the random slot for her. There doesn't need to be a random slot on the roster; they can just make a button on the controller pick a random character (like press X, or hold R to select Random. Something like that).

If Toon Link was one of the most likely to return to Smash 4, then Pichu was one of the most likely to return to Brawl.

Well, I wouldn't compare Toon Link to Pichu.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't know Morbid, but I think Metaknight, Yoshi, and Wario were far likelier to return than Toon Link. (Pretending Toon Link wasn't revealed yet) Unless you mean Zelda characters specifically.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I wouldn't compare Toon Link to Pichu.

The only difference between the two is that Toon Link wasn't designed as a joke character.

 

[Morbi]

If Toon Link was one of the most likely to return to Smash 4, then Pichu was one of the most likely to return to Brawl.

As for the whole Conductor Link thing, Sakurai seems to have **** upon that logic now with the whole Alfonzo gimmick.

Again, if you choose to ignore the very concise allusions to Wind Waker, be my guest. I believe that to be utterly irrational, they are different Link's and quite frankly, I don't care if Sakurai doesn't agree. We are not even entirely sure if that (the gimmick on Spirit Tracks) was an after-thought. It was revealed MONTHS after the stage reveal, it would have been far more logical to reveal Alfonzo during Toon Link's month.

Other than that, if you read my text-wall, that is why I believed Toon Link (and Jigglypuff) to be the most likely returning characters... who was one of the first characters revealed? Who was that again? Toon Link? I suppose I was correct.

 

[TumblrFamous]

As a Toon Link main, he is easily the most expendable character on the roster, regardless how Sakurai views a second Link. Obviously, Sakurai views a second Link important, as there has been one for 3 out of the 4 games. Despite a second Link being a last-minute addition in Melee and Brawl, he seems to finally have his place on the roster, so we should just expect it now.

However, this is just our subjective opinions. The tide has changed, and I am sure, as Morbid said, that the priority list has changed. Who were the most commonly discussed characters pre-Brawl that were thought to be cut?

 

[?????????????]

The only difference between the two is that Toon Link wasn't designed as a joke character.

For me, the difference is that there's no question Pichu is a weaker Pikachu, but Link and Toon Link really don't have an edge over eachother power-wise. Both Link and Toon Link, in Zelda games, have shown equal ability and have both slain Ganondorf with comparative effectiveness. Pichu is literally a baby Pikachu; no edge or equality to debate upon.

 

[Morbi]

I don't know Morbid, but I think Metaknight, Yoshi, and Wario were far likelier to return than Toon Link. (Pretending Toon Link wasn't revealed yet) Unless you mean Zelda characters specifically.

I agree with that sentiment. I actually find all likely returns to be of equivalent value, from my perspective, they are "shoe-in," thus one cannot (logically) be more "shoe-in" than another. I believed Toon Link (and still believe Jigglypuff) to be on par with Meta Knight, Yoshi, and Wario as I expect every one of those characters to return. I just found Toon Link to be much higher on the list due to the relevant promotion, his prominent status in Legend of Zelda, and his easy to develop (especially for a promotion, wink, wink) nature.

To be more concise, I found him likelier as an initial reveal.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ah I see, then right now, Diddy(+Dixie) is the most likely to return then since there's Tropical Freeze coming up.

 

[?????????????]

Ah I see, then right now, Diddy(+Dixie) is the most likely to return then since there's Tropical Freeze coming up.

Well, I wouldn't agree with the (+Dixie) part, but that's the idea I suppose.

 

[Gunla]

Just gonna throw this out there: Diddy's reveal will be like Dedede- We know it's going to happen, the timing is near perfect for a new reveal.
Also gonna throw this out there: Most of us are thinking this. Obvious point is obvious?

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Just gonna throw this out there: Diddy's reveal will be like Dedede- We know it's going to happen, the timing is near perfect for a new reveal.
Also gonna throw this out there: Most of us are thinking this. Obvious point is obvious?

Obvious reveal is obvious, and that's exactly why I think Sakurai may not go for it. I think we're getting either Diddy Kong or Falco this month. I'd say 50/50 shot.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Obvious reveal is obvious, and that's exactly why I think Sakurai may not go for it. I think we're getting either Diddy Kong or Falco this month. I'd say 50/50 shot.

Falco because of that leak, right?

Actually, here's a question. If we have a Direct this month (which I find inevitable) how likely is a newcomer?

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Falco because of that leak, right?

Actually, here's a question. If we have a Direct this month (which I find inevitable) how likely is a newcomer?

Falco not because of the leak, but because the Star Fox anniversary is on the 21st of this month.

If we have a direct, I think another newcomer would be timed pretty well, but I have my doubts.

 

[M23-X0]

Obvious reveal is obvious, and that's exactly why I think Sakurai may not go for it. I think we're getting either Diddy Kong or Falco this month. I'd say 50/50 shot.

I do think the same. I would love Sakurai to troll once again and announce a character like Falcon instead of Diddy.

 

[Morbi]

Falco not because of the leak, but because the Star Fox anniversary is on the 21st of this month.

If we have a direct, I think another newcomer would be timed pretty well, but I have my doubts.

Anniversaries aren't necessarily the most direct and sufficient evidence to justify a reveal. I do believe that we got repeat information about Rosalina, a character not present in any publicly playable Smash, on the 15th anniversary of Smash.

Again, Nintendo is promoting Tropical Freeze, it is the most prominent IP to release until Mario Kart. So they aren't going to just disregard its existence. Especially with Dixie and K. Rool being some of the most anticipated newcomers, in addition to Diddy Kong being one of the most overt returning veterans. That would be absurd... then again... Pokemon.

 

[Autumn ♫]

What do you guys think of my roster and the Assist Trophies?
Roster:

Spoiler

Assist Trophies:

Spoiler

I might add a boss roster soon.

 

[Starcutter]

we should add one of the most iconic zelda characters. link has yet to kill this character, yet many people have fallen to this character and his army

Spoiler

What do you guys think of my roster and the Assist Trophies?
Roster:

Spoiler

Assist Trophies:

Spoiler

I might add a boss roster soon.

Issac, shulk, Saki AND Robin? GG

Also not even a yoshi assist? sigh

 

[BluePikmin11]

we should add one of the most iconic zelda characters. link has yet to kill this character, yet many people have fallen to this character and his army

Spoiler

I think it would be cool if he was an item instead. XD
When you hold him, you float down slowly like Peach's parasol. And when you damage the Cucco enough times, a flock of Cuccos attack the hitter and is inescapable leading to their death.

 

[Morbi]

What do you guys think of my roster and the Assist Trophies?
Roster:

Spoiler

Assist Trophies:

Spoiler

I might add a boss roster soon.

As an additional F-Zero representative advocate, I appreciate Samurai Goroh on the roster. Vaati is your personal touch, and honestly, I want to see Vaati playable just to see your reaction. I am open to any Fire Emblem character, and I am a closet Robin supporter, so that is a nice addition that mitigates some of the perceived detriments of little aesthetic diversity from that particular series (while not resorting to Fire Sword). That being said, why is Saki in this roster? Care to elaborate? I really want to comprehend why some find him to be likely.

 

[Vez]

For ATs they should really have Robotnik in his machine from the first battle in Sonic 1. You know, that one with the giant ball. That'd be perfect.

 

[TumblrFamous]

we should add one of the most iconic zelda characters. link has yet to kill this character, yet many people have fallen to this character and his army

Spoiler

Issac, shulk, Saki AND Robin? GG

Also not even a yoshi assist? sigh

I would love to have this as an Assist Trophy. Too bad we already have the Skull Kid and (hopefully) Phantom.

 

[Autumn ♫]

we should add one of the most iconic zelda characters. link has yet to kill this character, yet many people have fallen to this character and his army

Spoiler

Issac, shulk, Saki AND Robin? GG

Also not even a yoshi assist? sigh

Kamek will probably be a boss on my boss list then.

 

[Starcutter]

Kamek will probably be a boss on my boss list then.

that..... could be interesting, actually.

 

[M23-X0]

What do you guys think of my roster and the Assist Trophies?
Roster:

Spoiler

Assist Trophies:

Spoiler

I might add a boss roster soon.

I really like your roster ! Where did you find Isaac's and Vaati's models ? I never saw them. And your roster made me realize that Vaati could be a great ennemy for Toon Link. Their art can be so similar.

 

[SuperBrawler]

As an additional F-Zero representative advocate, I appreciate Samurai Goroh on the roster. Vaati is your personal touch, and honestly, I want to see Vaati playable just to see your reaction. I am open to any Fire Emblem character, and I am a closet Robin supporter, so that is a nice addition that mitigates some of the perceived detriments of little aesthetic diversity from that particular series (while not resorting to Fire Sword). That being said, why is Saki in this roster? Care to elaborate? I really want to comprehend why some find him to be likely.

Am also curious to see reasons to have Saki.

 

[Morbi]

@ TumblrFamous

Why "hopefully Phantom"? I am confused, the predominant reason I do not advocate Phantom as an assist trophy is based on the notion that he is a seemingly generic hack and slash assist based on a generic enemy. Legend of Zelda has a plethora of more suitable assist trophies that are actually unique. I am just curious, if Vaati and Ghirahim aren't playable, I would much rather they become assist trophies over Phantom.

To be more concise, I don't want to debate whether or not Phantom is an assist, I am wondering why you want him as an assist.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Broken image.

It's not broken for me.
I don't think it is for anyone else either.

EDIT: And yes, I know this is an extremely late response.