Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

He's technically a veteran, but he'd undoubtedly be hyped as if he was a newcomer. The fan reaction would be too great to ignore.

 

[Starcutter]

Anyone for a 3 most likely pokemon reps? considering in brawl is not really that impossible to happen.
3 NEW pokemon reps, no veterans included.

HAAAAAAWLUCHAAA

 

[Staarih]

Anyone for a 3 most likely pokemon reps? considering in brawl is not really that impossible to happen.
3 NEW pokemon reps, no veterans included.

I'd say...
1. Zoroark
2. 6th gen Pokémon (Sylveon seems to be most popular/iconic, or maybe Hawlucha)
3. No idea really haha... guess something along the lines of Blaziken or Genesect.

By the way, I came up with a crraaazyy idea last night: how would you feel like if Jigglypuff was implemented in Pokémon Trainer's team? If they'd like to go all "Kalos" on him maybe a team of Froakie (Kalos starter), Jigglypuff (Fairy-type) and (Mega) Charizard (prominent in Kalos) might work haha! It totally won't happen though and basically a very silly idea (would ruin the starter triangle too), but technically it would keep Jigglypuff, and still introduce us a fresh face Pokémon without overpresenting the franchise. Sure, it cuts the other two starters though.

 

[Starcutter]

If Jigglypuff was with PT that would remove the down B. Do not want.

 

[Gune]

I'm surprised people are saying Zoroark instead of Blaziken.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Because he's more unique than a possible Captain Falcon clone.

 

[IsmaR]

Then Zoroark is a Zelda clone.

And both of those are Fighting Wire Frame clones, anyway.

 

[Starcutter]

Zoroark as last minute lucario clone

 

[Deleted member]

Blaziken is popular but we already have Lucario as a fighting-type and Charizard as a fire-type. It's mostly a matter of taste and I don't think Blaziken brings together enough fans, in the way that was done by Lucario, to get over the hurdle of being a seventh Pokemon rep (counting Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur separately) if Mewtwo also comes back.

The only Pokemon reps I can see do it are Zoroark, Meowth or a new trainer, who that would be is anyone's guess.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Pikachu, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. Done.

I don't think this is a hard concept.

 

[Gunla]

So let me get this straight....
anything but Mewtwo is going to be an automatic clone?
Because Zoroark, Blaziken and Meowth could all easily be unique. But it really just depends on what Sakurai percieves as unique. Sure, Blaziken would likely have a Falcon Kick, but that's it, really.
But I doubt we'll see anything other than Brawl Pokes + Mewtwo.

Pikachu, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. Done.

I don't think this is a hard concept.

The most likely and most globally pleasing scenario. Not really any contest there.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't see any Pokémon newcomer do much for the game honestly. Zoroark is the less popular Lucario, Meowth is strictly anime and isn't terribly interesting (the latter is subjective of course), and a new trainer wouldn't bring anything new to the game and would likely end up replacing the current one with less popular and important Pokémons. Brawl + Mewtwo is basically perfect, they rep 6th Gen pretty damn well, and Mewtwo and Jigglypuff have potential to get some changes, so it'll be a recognizable but still refreshed Pokémon roster.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well thanks for ending the Pokemon conversation with the "Brawl+Mewtwo".
Back to dead horse I guess.

I don't see any Pokémon newcomer do much for the game honestly. Zoroark is the less popular Lucario, Meowth is strictly anime and isn't terribly interesting (the latter is subjective of course), and a new trainer wouldn't bring anything new to the game and would likely end up replacing the current one with less popular and important Pokémons. Brawl + Mewtwo is basically perfect, they rep 6th Gen pretty damn well, and Mewtwo and Jigglypuff have potential to get some changes, so it'll be a recognizable but still refreshed Pokémon roster.

Wouldn't mean just because he's a less popular Pokemon, doesn't mean he'll be left out of consideration for a Pokemon newcomer.

 

[Starcutter]

Let's be honest, everyone wants some Pokemon in smash

 

[Deleted member]

If we're talking good candidates, why not Avalugg? There was a high-quality set made for him that will crush your expectations.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Well thanks for ending the Pokemon conversation with the "Brawl+Mewtwo".
Back to dead horse I guess.

You're welcome! If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Another nice thing about the set-up is that we get an assortment of types. Unlike if Blaziken or Meowth overlapped in the roster, we get a solid 11 out of the 18 Pokemon types.

On that note, I wouldn't mind Zoroark as DLC if it absolutely came down to that. The tried-and-true set up of Brawl+Mewtwo is more than fine on its own in the game's release.

 

[Gunla]

Wouldn't mean just because he's a less popular Pokemon, doesn't mean he'll be left out of consideration for a Pokemon newcomer.

But just because there's an apparant newcomer doesn't mean Sakurai will not take existing material. Doesn't mean he won't take the most requested character, above Megaman.
Newcomers<Veterans. Taking Brawl's assets into mind, there's even data of Mewtwo to start as a base. I doubt we'll see anything else than the most likely scenario, despite how "predictable" it may be. And hell, it works out. Nothing truly wrong with it.

 

[Arcanir]

You know, this morning I came to a startling realization...
We've seen an absolute ton of KI stuff, especially from Uprising. Items, trophies, stages, and more. This leads me to 2 possible ideas:
1. Sakurai's getting over his modesty issue.
2. Upcoming Palutena reveal? The next Direct is coming real soon and we're bound to get a newcomer, but we only get hints about what it could be close to the Direct season.

It's definitely possible, that does remind me though, did we get an onslaught of Mario-related Smash material before Rosalina's reveal?

 

[Gunla]

It's definitely possible, that does remind me though, did we get an onslaught of Mario-related Smash material before Rosalina's reveal?

Other than a multitude of Mario characters appearing in the pics of the day during November & December, we got the Galaxy Stage a few weeks before.

 

[Gune]

Wouldn't mean just because he's a less popular Pokemon, doesn't mean he'll be left out of consideration for a Pokemon newcomer.

Honestly he's less popular and less relevant that's two big things that are going to weigh him down when going against other charecters, not saying Zoroark doesent have a chance but there are other choices that will come first.

 

[JamesDNaux]

How has no one brought up the amazingness that Goodra in Smash would bring? Imagine fighting with a goo dragon, that'd be just grand.

Though there aren't any likely Pokemon candidates that aren't named Mewtwo, Zoroark isn't new anymore and GameFreak sure wouldn't want him in after they gave up on trying to make him the new Lucario, and there really aren't many gen six Pokemon that would fit besides maybe Hawlucha. Definitely Brawl + Mewtwo.

 

[BluePikmin11]

There can be two additional Pokemon characters, one can represent Pokemon going forward (Mewtwo), the other is there just for his uniqueness and potential (Zoroark) that Sakurai wanted to develop.

Just because Zoroark is not new doesn't mean Sakurai can't stop considering her. He's delving into lots of research on Pokemon:
http://nintendoeverything.com/how-pokemon-characters-are-chosen-for-smash-bros/

“Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company. What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front. For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward. But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.”

Notice the plural form of movies, he's looking into movies like Zoroark and Genesect's.
He's not out of consideration. And Sakurai is the director, not Game Freak, so he decides which Pokemon characters he's going to choose. Game Freak can't stop Sakurai from choosing a Pokemon they are not promoting anymore.

 

[Deleted member]

There can be two additional Pokemon characters, one can represent Pokemon going forward (Mewtwo), the other is there just for his uniqueness and potential (Zoroark) that Sakurai wanted to develop.

Just because Zoroark is not new doesn't mean Sakurai can't stop considering her. He's delving into lots of research on Pokemon:
http://nintendoeverything.com/how-pokemon-characters-are-chosen-for-smash-bros/

Notice the plural form of movies, he's looking into movies like Zoroark and Genesect's.
He's not out of consideration. And Sakurai is the director, not Game Freak, so he decides which Pokemon characters he's going to choose. Game Freak can't stop Sakurai from choosing a Pokemon they are not promoting anymore.

In Brawl I got the impression Sakurai got a list of preference from Game Freak, or consulted them, but yeah, in the end it's down to Sakurai. I'm sure if he likes what Zoroark or Genesect can do, he'll consider adding them, but Pokemon in general already has tonnes of reps and Sakurai can just as easily choose to add no one. There's a possibility he won't even add Mewtwo back. Although I'm willing to bet he adds at least one Pokemon to the Brawl cast.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

There can be two additional Pokemon characters, one can represent Pokemon going forward (Mewtwo), the other is there just for his uniqueness and potential (Zoroark) that Sakurai wanted to develop.

Just because Zoroark is not new doesn't mean Sakurai can't stop considering her. He's delving into lots of research on Pokemon:
http://nintendoeverything.com/how-pokemon-characters-are-chosen-for-smash-bros/

Notice the plural form of movies, he's looking into movies like Zoroark and Genesect's.
He's not out of consideration. And Sakurai is the director, not Game Freak, so he decides which Pokemon characters he's going to choose. Game Freak can't stop Sakurai from choosing a Pokemon they are not promoting anymore.

You ignore the other things in the same quote pointing to why he's looking towards what's hot and new, not just within the movies.

“Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company. What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front. For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward. But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.”

The quote can go either way, in other words. He looks for what makes them unique, but can that not be said about every character he puts in Smash Bros.? Pokemon is one of the series where it seems like what's recent has a heavy priority in what gets in. I can't imagine Zoroark will be central to conversations moving forward when it's literally had nothing to do with X & Y, the newest games and currently one of the most successful entries of the franchise to date, with +11.6 million copies since October 2013 (5 Months) compared to Black & White's +11.5 million copies since Spring 2011 (3 years). I can't argue that Zoroark wouldn't be one of the most unique Pokemon choices, but commercially speaking it has very little hope for being the hot Pokemon Sakurai is looking for. Not getting a Mega Evolution really did itself no favors.

 

[JamesDNaux]

There can be two additional Pokemon characters, one can represent Pokemon going forward (Mewtwo), the other is there just for his uniqueness and potential (Zoroark) that Sakurai wanted to develop.

Just because Zoroark is not new doesn't mean Sakurai can't stop considering her. He's delving into lots of research on Pokemon:
http://nintendoeverything.com/how-pokemon-characters-are-chosen-for-smash-bros/

Notice the plural form of movies, he's looking into movies like Zoroark and Genesect's.
He's not out of consideration. And Sakurai is the director, not Game Freak, so he decides which Pokemon characters he's going to choose. Game Freak can't stop Sakurai from choosing a Pokemon they are not promoting anymore.

“Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company. What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front. For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward. But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.”

Extra emphasis for the points you ignored, two new Pokemon characters is not likely in the slightest unless one gets cut, and Mewtwo is the major player for that position right now. Sure he could go back and look at Zoroark, but why would he? What makes Zoroark so unique among 700+ other Pokemon? It surely couldn't be moveset potential, I've looked at a few different ones and they all seem to be the same cut and paste "similar to Mewtwo and Lucario," particularly even using the same projectile. Sure Sakurai could make it unique if he wanted to, but that returns to the original point, why would he look at an old, no longer promoted, and not very popular Pokemon? Pikachu is the highly popular and recognized mascot, Jigglypuff was added due to her popularity in Japan at the time, Mewtwo has always been popular, Pichu was just a quick clone that he got rid of for the next game, Pokemon Trainer has the Kanto starters, all of whom are popular, particularly Charizard, and Lucario is still going strong as a popular and advertised Pokemon, unless Zoroark is going to be Lucario's Pichu, why would Sakurai add him?

And ninja'd somewhat.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well.. this was a hard argument to face.

Extra emphasis for the points you ignored, two new Pokemon characters is not likely in the slightest unless one gets cut, and Mewtwo is the major player for that position right now. Sure he could go back and look at Zoroark, but why would he? What makes Zoroark so unique among 700+ other Pokemon? It surely couldn't be moveset potential, I've looked at a few different ones and they all seem to be the same cut and paste "similar to Mewtwo and Lucario," particularly even using the same projectile. Sure Sakurai could make it unique if he wanted to, but that returns to the original point, why would he look at an old, no longer promoted, and not very popular Pokemon? Pikachu is the highly popular and recognized mascot, Jigglypuff was added due to her popularity in Japan at the time, Mewtwo has always been popular, Pichu was just a quick clone that he got rid of for the next game, Pokemon Trainer has the Kanto starters, all of whom are popular, particularly Charizard, and Lucario is still going strong as a popular and advertised Pokemon, unless Zoroark is going to be Lucario's Pichu, why would Sakurai add him?

The fact that almost all Pokemon (His pre-evolution does) and none of the characters that were up to this point in a Smash Bros. game never does illusions as an ability and a playstyle. That's what makes it absolutely worth it gameplay wise considering that probably outmaneuvers importance and other factors that is not uniqueness.

Those quotes you and GRC bolded out are just only the first step into considering a Pokemon newcomer, then they delve into the research looking back at the past Pokemon movies, where Zoroark could be in consideration, pointing again (Where he might be referring to Villager and the Trainer) the many factors of uniqueness. Zoroark could represent Pokemon going forward with the Black/White installments with the graphical improvements and the introduction of Triple Battles and Rotation battles, It's not only X and Y that represents Pokemon going forward.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Alright, let's just get Ridley and pretend he's a new Pokemon.

Everyone happy?

 

[Substitution]

Alright, let's just get Ridley and pretend he's a new Pokemon.

Everyone happy?

But what if Ridley is a Pokemon?

 

[Starcutter]

Alright, let's just get Ridley and pretend he's a new Pokemon.

Everyone happy?

yes and no

a 6th pokemon is definably possible

 

[Arcanir]

Other than a multitude of Mario characters appearing in the pics of the day during November & December, we got the Galaxy Stage a few weeks before.

Ok then, so it's not the exact same between the two as the former didn't get a lot of revealed new content. However it did use Mario characters extensively, so in that sense, it still could've been building up to Rosalina.

Well.. this was a hard argument to face.

The fact that almost all Pokemon (His pre-evolution does) and none of the characters that were up to this point in a Smash Bros. game never does illusions as an ability and a playstyle. That's what makes it absolutely worth it gameplay wise considering that probably outmaneuvers importance and other factors that is not uniqueness.

Those quotes you and GRC bolded out are just only the first step into considering a Pokemon newcomer, then they delve into the research looking back at the past Pokemon movies, where Zoroark could be in consideration, pointing again (Where he might be referring to Villager and the Trainer) the many factors of uniqueness. Zoroark could represent Pokemon going forward with the Black/White installments with the graphical improvements and the introduction of Triple Battles and Rotation battles, It's not only X and Y that represents Pokemon going forward.

I won't argue its potential uniqueness, because the fact of the matter is it could be as it has the tools. Having said that, I honestly think you're playing way too much into that aspect and ignoring the faults the character has. Those two bolded statements do show a potential wall for Zoroark as it's not the "hot" Pokémon at this point, it was more ignored in the advertisements then even Jigglypuff for XY (at least the latter got recognition via Fairy Type rather then random wild encounters), and it doesn't stand the test of time as its already faded from promotion. Even if they're the first step, the fact that it doesn't clear them is a big problem and that can really hinder it.

 

[Louie G.]

I would certainly vouch for Hawlucha as a Gen 6 rep.
Then again it's probably just my bias, but he seems like one of those characters who were "made with Smash in mind".

 

[Sobreviviente]

If zoroark is added is simply because he is somewhat similar to mewtwo and lucario, completing a trio
Takamaru's clone, btw.

 

[Gunla]

Alright, let's just get Ridley and pretend he's a new Pokemon.
Everyone happy?

This kind of logic. I like this kind of logic.

yes and no
a 6th pokemon is definably possible

It is, but the magic limit of this game for slots per franchise seems to be 5. It's not likely we got 6.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well.. this was a hard argument to face.

The fact that almost all Pokemon (His pre-evolution does) and none of the characters that were up to this point in a Smash Bros. game never does illusions as an ability and a playstyle. That's what makes it absolutely worth it gameplay wise considering that probably outmaneuvers importance and other factors that is not uniqueness.

That's not good for anything unless you can actually do, something with it. What's his illusion good for? Fooling the opponent into thinking you're someone else when you clearly picked Zoroark at the start of the fight? Even if there's three or four players and you copy someone else in the hopes of getting someone to chase them instead of you, there's them painfully obvious P1/2/3/4 floating above your head that would instantly make the point of the illusion null. Just mentioning "oh, he can use illusions" isn't uniqueness, that's like saying "oh, Rosalina can use a Luma." It's how something is implemented that makes it unique, not just the thought of something, there needs to be an idea behind it. If someone told you that Rosalina used a Luma, would you have thought of the unique puppeteer moveset, or would you have thought it was just a single attack? Illusions are useless without context, there is nothing unique about nothing.

Those quotes you and GRC bolded out are just only the first step into considering a Pokemon newcomer, then they delve into the research looking back at the past Pokemon movies, where Zoroark could be in consideration, pointing again (Where he might be referring to Villager and the Trainer) the many factors of uniqueness. Zoroark could represent Pokemon going forward with the Black/White installments with the graphical improvements and the introduction of Triple Battles and Rotation battles, It's not only X and Y that represents Pokemon going forward.

Grasping at straws now, what does Zoroark in specific have to do with the graphical improvements or the introduction of triple/rotation battles? You can use any Pokemon in triple battles, not just three Zoroarks, and every Pokemon is effected by the graphics, which is a terrible argument to begin with. The truth of the matter is that Zoroark is just like any other Pokemon now, just because it was in a single movie doesn't give it any priority, plenty of Pokemon have been in movies. Unknown and Entei had a movie centered around them, should they be playable? Deoxys had his own movie, and he'd probably be way more unique than Zoroark, why give him the shaft? Etc and etc.

 

[Substitution]

It is, but the magic limit of this game for slots per franchise seems to be 5. It's not likely we got 6.

I have a better idea.
We might get Mewtwo, can't we just consider him the new guy?

 

[Louie G.]

I have a better idea.
We might get Mewtwo, can't we just consider him the new guy?

I'm surprised to be hearing this from you, to be honest.

 

[Gunla]

I have a better idea.
We might get Mewtwo, can't we just consider him the new guy?

It's a very touchy situation.
Nintendo could easily do either!
He's literally a giant special case. He was removed but he's very likely to return.
But then again, he's been in before.

 

[Substitution]

I'm surprised to be hearing this from you, to be honest.

Oh trust me, I still don't consider him a newcomer.
But, I will admit, he is popular. So can't we just say Brawl + Mewtwo and move on?

 

[Staarih]

If zoroark is added is simply because he is somewhat similar to mewtwo and lucario, completing a trio
Takamaru's clone, btw.

Haha, I bumped into THIS picture a while ago and I think they all fit in together well. Psychic master, Illusion master and Aura master. I'd love to see this in Smash too but I guess it's pretty unlikely.

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh, it's times like these where I wish we could have a Pokemon fighting game. So many cool pokemon to have in a fighting game.... so few slots.... :/

Then again, I guess even a pokemon fighting game probably wouldn't cut it.....

Ah well, guess that's just my opinion.