Character Discussion Thread

[Shorts]

Dixie is a Diddy that shows up less. She's always playable when she's around, and like Diddy, is the "star" of her own Donkey Kong Country. She was important in the 90's, like Rool was, and is still important now, unlike K Rool. Who is more important is irrelevent though, they're both good candidates for Smash Bros.

 

[Rockaphin]

What move set could he possibly have??? Vegetables???

I hate Toad and wouldn't want him playable, but he could indeed have a moveset.

Medusa is the main antagonist. But Hades is just an awesome character. That's why I would go for him, personally.

I haven't played Kid Icarus, but I thought Hades was the main antagonist?

Uhh, that was pretty random, and a little bit rude.

Anyway, can we talk about Falco? Just saying Falco because I've never seen him discussed here.

Personally, I dislike Falco. I hate how he says, "Personally, I prefer the air!" and then hops in a Landmaster. I'm not a fan of the Star Fox Series so could someone explain what Falco does different than Fox? I'm not talking about Smash either because I understand his moves were altered in Brawl.

 

[Kenith]

Yes let's ignore the fact that Toads have actually unique abilities. We should also forget that, as the Mushroom retainer, Toad can utilize numerous power-ups used by Mario and Luigi throughout the entire franchise. Most of them given to the brothers by, Toad.

I usually ignore it when he says a character "doesn't have potential" as it generally translates to "I hate the idea of including this character."

King K. Tality.

Um, it's "Kroolality".

 

[josh bones]

You see that doesn't really work when you suggest a completely viable play style. Not to mention part of her play style is Diddy's move set.

So yeah. That was an awful comeback...

Yes let's ignore the fact that Toads actually have unique abilities. We should also forget that, as the Mushroom retainer, Toad can utilize numerous power-ups used by Mario and Luigi throughout the entire franchise. Most of them given to the brothers by none other than Toad.
:

This destroys your agrument

 

[MasterOfKnees]

There's no doubt that DKC is primarily the Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong game. Donkey Kong Country Returns pretty much proved that the franchise can have a great game solely based on those two (unless Cranky's appearance as a shopkeeper left a really big impact on you.) The other DKC characters (that includes all Kongs and Kremlings) do add a lot and have a ton of appeal, but they aren't necessities. Because of this I think it's a bit silly to discuss who's more important between Dixie, K. Rool and even Cranky, as that's not what it boils down to anymore.

 

[Croph]

Topic: who would you choose if Palutena wasn't the Kid Icarus rep?

Don't see this happening, but a Centurion would make a hilarious addition imo.

Better for a FS, AT, or stage cameo I think.

Other than that, I wouldn't mind seeing Hades or Medusa, though I'd prefer Palutena over them.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yes let's ignore the fact that Toads have actually unique abilities. We should also forget that, as the Mushroom retainer, Toad can utilize numerous power-ups used by Mario and Luigi throughout the entire franchise. Most of them given to the brothers by, Toad.

Yeah, see your proposal that Toad would utilize power ups is simply and IDEA created by Smash fans. When in reality the only significance Toad shares with items is that he's the guy who runs the stores.

It's not like he has some sort of affinity with using items that the other playable characters don't. So why him? That doesn't really show a big enough connection for it to be his move set. You're just pulling from things that he (like other characters) just so happened to be related to despite it having no real significance to his character.

Also being fast and being a meat shield isn't really an ability.

This destroys your agrument

Yeah, NO. You wish it did though.

 

[RadRedi]

Which I find to be more important than the not always present villain. Also Toad is not a secondary protagonist. In fact he's mostly the NPC or tutorial. He's only playable because he's there and there are no other secondary sidekicks. Where as Dixie is playable because she's an important protagonist and an important secondary sidekick. Unlike Toad is playable for fill in.

The reasoning behind why Toad is an ever-occurring NPC/thrid/fourth playable character doesn't matter, especially in a series as lacking in plot as Super Mario Bros. What does matter is the fact that he has gotten a great increase in popular roles.

Now, I believe the original discussion was Dixie and K. Rool. Toad was brought up as a mere example.

Not to mention part of her play style is Diddy's move set.

You see, in a game where Sakurai is really stressing uniqueness in the newcomers he would like to implement, this is far from a good argument. You're essentially saying "Dixie Kong can just use Diddy Kong's moves - but with more hair - because she's nothing more than a CLONE! So HA!". (Let the record show that I don't feel that way about Dixie). Why would people be behind a statement like that whenever K. Rool fans constantly point out the Kong-itized Bond villainy of K. Rool, which is exclusive to him?

 

[IsmaR]

I haven't played Kid Icarus, but I thought Hades was the main antagonist?

Well obvious spoilers, for starts.

She's the main antagonist of the first game, and is built up to be in Uprising. Hijacked by GanondorfHades occurs, and he's the final boss.

Personally, I dislike Falco. I hate how he says, "Personally, I prefer the air!" and then hops in a Landmaster. I'm not a fan of the Star Fox Series so could someone explain what Falco does different than Fox? I'm not talking about Smash either because I understand his moves were altered in Brawl.

Falco is the "ace pilot" of the team, often doing the fanciest flying and assisting Fox with his superior Arwing skills, and also having gone to the same academy as him. Most of the "prefer the air" association comes from Star Fox Assault, where even in the multiplayer mode, Falco has a better rating in Flight/speed than Fox (though not as good as Wolf). Oh and he has the "tough gang" backstory going for him.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I'm not a fan of the Star Fox Series so could someone explain what Falco does different than Fox? I'm not talking about Smash either because I understand his moves were altered in Brawl.

Falco is Fox's best friend. Sure he's pretty arrogant, but he's certainly not on Andross' side, that's for sure.

 

[Kenith]

Yeah, see your proposal that Toad would utilize power ups is simply and IDEA created by Smash fans. When in reality the only significance Toad shares with items is that he's the guy who runs the stores. It's not like he has some sort of affinity with using items that the other playable characters don't. So why him? That doesn't really show a big enough connection for it to be his move set. You're just pulling from things that he (like other characters) just so happened to be related to despite it having no real significance to his character. Also being fast and being a meat shield isn't really an ability.

I agree that he is lacking in potential to an extent, however Toad isn't completely useless.

There's nothing that he consistently uses in the games, but there are things that he does in different games. The Propeller Hat is a good example for a recovery, or a Mario Kart as a side B.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I agree that he is lacking in potential to an extent, however Toad isn't completely useless.

There's nothing that he consistently uses in the games, but there are things that he does in different games. The Propeller Hat is a good example for a recovery, or a Mario Kart as a side B.

Once again, the propeller hat is not unique or significant to Toad anymore than the bazooka is significant or unique to Falco.

If this was one minor move, you could get away with it. But, having items be his main special play style doesn't make sense.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Once again, the propeller hat is not unique or significant to Toad anymore than the bazooka is significant or unique to Falco.

Are bananas any more unique to Diddy than they are to any other Kong though? As long as no one has grabbed the move beforehand, the character can still potentially have it in his/her moveset.

 

[josh bones]

Yeah, see your proposal that Toad would utilize power ups is simply and IDEA created by Smash fans. When in reality the only significance Toad shares with items is that he's the guy who runs the stores.
Everything on this site is IDEAS.

It's not like he has some sort of affinity with using items that the other playable characters don't. So why him? That doesn't really show a big enough connection for it to be his move set. You're just pulling from things that he (like other characters) just so happened to be related to despite it having no real significance to his character.
say hi
Also being fast and being a meat shield isn't really an ability.
Having hair isn't really an ability

Yeah, NO. You wish it did though
Yeah, YES. You wish it didn't though. .

Responses in some sort of green

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Are bananas any more unique to Diddy than they are to any other Kong though? As long as no one has grabbed the move beforehand, the character can still potentially have it in his/her moveset.

Banana's aren't' Diddy's main move set. It's one move. Not the same as an entirely item based move set.

@ josh bones
Are you trying to propose a counter point?

 

[Rockaphin]

Well obvious spoilers, for starts.

She's the main antagonist of the first game, and is built up to be in Uprising. Hijacked by GanondorfHades occurs, and he's the final boss.



Falco is the "ace pilot" of the team, often doing the fanciest flying and assisting Fox with his superior Arwing skills. Most of the association comes from Star Fox Assault, where even in the multiplayer mode, Falco has a better rating in Flight/speed than Fox (though not as good as Wolf).

Falco is Fox's best friend. Sure he's pretty arrogant, but he's certainly not on Andross' side, that's for sure.

I had a friend tell me about Falco and apparently he was right, thanks for the info. And about Hades, so technically he could be considered the Antagonist? But I understand what you're saying. I've read a little bit about Uprising so I was already somewhat spoiled.

 

[Kenith]

Once again, the propeller hat is not unique or significant to Toad anymore than the bazooka is significant or unique to Falco.

If this was one minor move, you could get away with it. But, having items be his main special play style doesn't make sense.

But Toads' main importance, at least in most Mario games, is to give said items. Which is why him using those items isn't as far-fetched as other characters.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Banana's aren't' Diddy's main move set. It's one move. Not the same as an entirely item based move set.

That's true, but the fact lies that the potential is still there. Just because it isn't a completely character defining trait doesn't mean it couldn't happen if Toad still had a chance, he is the Mario character who'd fit best with an item-based moveset. However, Toad is pretty much deconfirmed, so I'm not sure why people are going toe to toe against each other over this.

 

[IsmaR]

I had a friend tell me about Falco and apparently he was right, thanks for the info. And about Hades, so technically he could be considered the Antagonist? But I understand what you're saying. I've read a little bit about Uprising so I was already somewhat spoiled.

Very well, more spoiler-ish spoilers.

Spoiler

It was Hades that revived Medusa in the first place, so technically it was him all along. Medusa actually briefly returns at the end to punch his ****, but is quickly disintegrated. The main thing people feel is the deciding factor is that Hades is such a likable character, being the master god of trolling and all.

 

[Rockaphin]

Toad was also playable in Wario's Woods

 

[TheLastJinjo]

@ josh bones :

Oh, hair isn't an ability?

I guess spinning in your shell and punching with your fist isn't an attack either.

 

[RadRedi]

That's true, but the fact lies that the potential is still there. Just because it isn't a completely character defining trait doesn't mean it couldn't happen if Toad still had a chance, he is the Mario character who'd fit best with an item-based moveset. However, Toad is pretty much deconfirmed, so I'm not sure why people are going toe to toe against each other over this.

People are going toe-to-toe over this because I used Toad as an example to say that prominence in a series doesn't automatically mean a character is a shoe-in. The Great "Useless Toad" War of 2014 quickly ensued, despite the discussion originally being about whether or not Dixie is more unique than King K. Rool.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

@ josh bones :

Oh, hair isn't an ability?

Luigi kind of already does that without having long hair.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Being more unique does not mean you will get in over other characters

 

[Kenith]

@ josh bones :

Oh, hair isn't an ability?

That's true, but the fact lies that the potential is still there. Just because it isn't a completely character defining trait doesn't mean it couldn't happen if Toad still had a chance, he is the Mario character who'd fit best with an item-based moveset. However, Toad is pretty much deconfirmed, so I'm not sure why people are going toe to toe against each other over this.

Yeah, sometimes we forget nothing we say or do will have an effect on the game.

Oh, running fast isn't an ability?

Come on, man.

 

[RadRedi]

Being more unique does not mean you will get in over other characters

Absolutely, but in a game where the developer would prefer a unique play style over prominence in one's own series, it certainly helps.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Luigi kind of already does that without having long hair.

It's still an ability, which functions differently in Tropical Freeze. Also Diddy's Jetpack functioned differently from ROB's upward special.

Oh, running fast isn't an ability?

Come on, man.

It's not an attack.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Being more unique does not mean you will get in over other characters

I don't know, it worked pretty well for Rosalina when she stomped Toad and Bowser Jr. into the ground. Sakurai stated that being unique is the most important factor this time around in (I think) IGN's 2013 summer interview (wasn't the IGN one, gimme a second) with him, so it obviously does mean that some characters will push other away for that sole reason.

 

[Gunla]

Being more unique does not mean you will get in over other characters

But it's Sakurai's perception of unique. Not really ours. He could percieve King K Rool or Shulk as the blandest ever but say someone like Waddle Dee or Chrom is far more unique, eh?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't know, it worked pretty well for Rosalina when she stomped Toad and Bowser Jr. into the ground. Sakurai stated that being unique is the most important factor this time around in (I think) IGN's 2013 summer interview with him, so it obviously does mean that some characters will push other away for that sole reason.

He didn't say that. And Rosalina getting in over Toad does not = Jeff will get in over Lucas

 

[Kenith]

It's not an attack.

It could be. You gotta be more creative, man.

 

[Louie G.]

Is Saturn saying that Dixie Kong will have mostly unique moves?
And that Toad won't?
Well let me come in and say that Saturn's whole clone argument is about looking the same and having similar abilities, and would you look at that, Dixie Kong not only looks the same as Diddy, but holds a "Bubble Gun" and can easily move like a chimpanzee in a similar playstyle to Diddy.
Now to say that DIXIE KONG of all characters would be unique is bogus considering that Saturn has shunned characters with extremely unique abilities like Krystal, saying that they without a doubt would be a clone. Now Dixie has hair, yes, but aside from that she doesn't have too much to go off of. Of course the hair attacks can make up her Up B and many of her basics, but she would essentially be a Luigified Diddy Kong in the long run.
And can someone explain how Toad wouldn't be unique? And using power ups is not a Smashboards created concept since Toad Houses are there specifically for giving you power ups, and Toad uses power ups in the New Super Mario Bros games. In addition Wario's Woods gives a lot of source material such as bombs and running up walls, if anyone's played it.
And uh, I just walked in here, so if this isn't what we're talking about...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Toad could have unique moves, but nothing in his moveset is spectacularly unique.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

He didn't say that. And Rosalina getting in over Toad does not = Jeff will get in over Lucas

Okay, so currently I can't find the interview where he describes the process of getting a list of characters that they've researched people want for the game, and then pick out the ones that add the most to the game (any help from people who read this interview would be appreciated), but I'll leave this here for now:

Something I think that people noticed in the movies and screenshots released, is that the villager and trainer were not choices we made for the sake of cheap novelty. Each has their own unique attacks and battle strategies, and they make the game more interesting. If I have an image of a character in my mind that dances around and jibes with what I want, then that’s the most important thing. On the other hand, even if you have a character suited for a fighting game, if you can’t make him stick out from the pack and extract something unique from him, then what can you do?

Source

And no, importance isn't null, but nobody mentioned anyone as obscure as Jeff. We were discussing DKC and Mario, and comparing someone like K. Rool or Toad to Jeff is ludicrous.

 

[Aguki90]

I going with my top 10: but firts honor mentions, Karate Joe, Black Shadow, K. Rool, Lip, Mike Johnes and my 3-party choose Lloyd Irving that never gonna happen.
10.Genesect
9.Wonder Red
8.Sukapon
7.Saki
6.Paletina
5.MK III
4.Dillon
3.Takamaru
2.Isaac
1.Shulk

Most of them never play there game but, I wish there in smash, at least one of them...

 

[RadRedi]

Okay, so currently I can't find the interview where he describes the process of getting a list of characters that they've researched people want for the game, and then pick out the ones that add the most to the game (any help from people who read this interview would be appreciated)....

Not sure if it's the same interview, but I've got you covered, nonetheless.

He didn't say that.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

An exerpt of the specific area I'd like you to look at:

That decision-making process starts with Sakurai forming his own thoughts, but also factors in various surveys, he said. From there, a list of candidates is refined by evaluating their contribution to the game's roster: "What is the uniqueness of this character? What does this character bring into the Smash Bros.universe? What do they have that other characters don't? How do they complement or contrast other characters?"

And Rosalina getting in over Toad does not = Jeff will get in over Lucas

You're right. "Rosalina vs. Toad" is "Potential Newcomer vs. Potential Newcomer", whereas Jeff vs. Lucas" is "Potential Newcomer vs. Veteran". Two completely different scenarios. But I don't understand your point.

 

[AEMehr]

You see that doesn't really work when you suggest a completely viable play style. Not to mention part of her play style is Diddy's move set.

So yeah. That was an awful comeback...

Hair =/= Playstyle
That goes towards Moveset potential. Dixie's possible moveset is already derived partially between DK and Diddy, most of the Diddy's attacks already taking a lot of the potential for standard attacks to make her truly unique (due to their incredibly similar build). Her unique helicopter spin from DKC2 / DKC3 is DK's up special as well.

Of course there are other ways to make her different, and I can come up with a few ways from the top of my head. But "hair" is not a playstyle. It is source material.

Yeah, see your proposal that Toad would utilize power ups is simply and IDEA created by Smash fans. When in reality the only significance Toad shares with items is that he's the guy who runs the stores.

Yeah sure, now let me tell you why you're so full of bull**** (pardon my language) right now.

Rosalina controlling a Luma from afar is simply an IDEA created by Masahiro Sakurai for a SMASH BROTHERS game. She's NEVER willingly sent out one of her children to fight, she's NEVER been able to spawn one out of nowhere, she's NEVER shown the ability to have the cosmos under her dress.
Rosalina's existing moveset makes no sense when it comes to Mario canon. But Sakurai thought of it, so it is obviously okay now because he made it since he is the greatest totally and all is now canon

Toad utilizing power ups for a potential moveset is simply an IDEA created by SMASH BROTHERS fans. When in reality Toad HAS used power-ups in previous games, Toad IS the one who runs the stores that HAS the power-ups, Toad IS the one that GIVES the items to the Mario Bros.
Toad's proposed moveset MAKES SENSE when it comes to Mario canon. But no it's terrible and will never happen since some smash fan made it what a nerd

Oh you think Dixie Kong should use hair if she was playable?? lolnope not gonna happen because some smash fan thought of it

It's not like he has some sort of affinity with using items that the other playable characters don't. So why him? That doesn't really show a big enough connection for it to be his move set. You're just pulling from things that he (like other characters) just so happened to be related to despite it having no real significance to his character.

He has an affinity to GIVE power-ups. Why shouldn't he USE them if need be?
Why can't the RETAINER use the items he RETAINS?? How is that NOT a big enough connection for you? The ITEM specialist should use the ITEMS.

Also being fast and being a meat shield isn't really an ability.

>Implying I was referring to those specifically
>Ignores immense power and ability to spawn mushrooms and release spores

 

[MasterOfKnees]

@ RadRedi That's the one I was talking about yes. Thanks.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Is Saturn saying that Dixie Kong will have mostly unique moves?
And that Toad won't?
Well let me come in and say that Saturn's whole clone argument is about looking the same and having similar abilities, and would you look at that, Dixie Kong not only looks the same as Diddy, but holds a "Bubble Gun" and can easily move like a chimpanzee in a similar playstyle to Diddy.
Now to say that DIXIE KONG of all characters would be unique is bogus considering that Saturn has shunned characters with extremely unique abilities like Krystal, saying that they without a doubt would be a clone. Now Dixie has hair, yes, but aside from that she doesn't have too much to go off of. Of course the hair attacks can make up her Up B and many of her basics, but she would essentially be a Luigified Diddy Kong in the long run.
And can someone explain how Toad wouldn't be unique? And using power ups is not a Smashboards created concept since Toad Houses are there specifically for giving you power ups, and Toad uses power ups in the New Super Mario Bros games. In addition Wario's Woods gives a lot of source material such as bombs and running up walls, if anyone's played it.
And uh, I just walked in here, so if this isn't what we're talking about...

No true member of the Donkey Kong family is a clone in my opinion.

 

[Rockaphin]

Toad could have unique moves, but nothing in his moveset is spectacularly unique.

He could have access to the first non-item freezing projectile(Ice Ball)
But that's all I can really think of at the moment.