Character Discussion Thread

[EdgeTheLucas]

No, hypothetically there would be no technical restrictions or time constraints. But only a single Pokemon, so not PKMN Trainer.


Is that your prediction or is that just your desire?


See I don't think so. I think Charizard only got in after Sakurai settled on the Trainer idea and then decided Gen 1 would be the best for it. Without the Trainer, I don't think Charizard would've been included.

Actually I think the reason Charizard wasn't included was because Sakurai might have been somewhat uncomfortable only choosing one out of the three starters to include in Smash solely due to popularity. EDIT: Around 64 and Melee he was pretty concerned with avoiding favoritism, and just choosing one starter could have been seen as an example of that. This is why I think starters weren't in Smash until Brawl.

The reason I said Charizard anyway was because both Pikachu and Jigglypuff were chosen due to their immense popularity (the latter moreso in Japan), and if popularity was the biggest factor in Pokémon character inclusion then at the very least Charizard might have been considered.

Since Charizard was avoided until Brawl though, I'm not sure who else besides Mewtwo and the other starters would have made it from the first generation.

 

[Pakky]

No, hypothetically there would be no technical restrictions or time constraints. But only a single Pokemon, so not PKMN Trainer.

Okay realistically, It would have to be Charmander or Squirtle. Charizard... as popular as he is I can't see it happening back then. Even then though its very hard to choose someone because to me, no one really sticks out more than anyone else.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's more of a statement that, if I didn't happen to have any idea who the character is, the common player might not either.

To Japan, though, there are a large load of people who know about Yokai Watch at this point, and would kill to buy Jibanyan as a DLC character.

Just like Little Mac, he might been known very well in the U.S., but in Japan, the Punch Out fanbase seems pretty non-existent among today's casual consumers, even the Little Mac trailer "who" reactions show that. He might not really care as long as the franchise had decent popularity in one region, like Fire Emblem. (By the way, Yokai Watch as a whole still did way better in sales than Fire Emblem's global's sales.)

I'm skeptical that Yokai Watch will maintain consistent popularity. We've seen Mon fads rise and fall like Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh.

I think in general a franchise like Yokai Watch is gonna struggle to get its foot in the door internationally - the fact that it's obscenely popular in Japan doesn't necessarily translate to instant western success. One Piece is (sadly) a great example of that. Pokemon succeeded due to both being the first of its kind and being aggressively marketed to westerners, with the games and anime coming at the same time. Now it's at a point where people who grew up playing Red and Blue have kids to share the series with, and it will continue ad nauseam.

It might get close to the success Pokemon had, even if it's not close, it's likely going to sell decently overseas with companies like Hasbro and Nintendo of America pushing Yokai Watch to its full advertising potential. There's already toys, products, an anime, and game coming out overseas at the same time just like Pokemon. Not to mention, this is aimed towards kids also, with the protagonist (Nate) being a kid like in Pokemon. There's a 5% chance that it'll fail to sell at their expectations because the two companies I mentioned are working hard to make this game a phenomenon. And Nintendo does pretty good at making these kinds of franchises succeed, like Tomodachi Life as of recent.

There's a good summary of the success of Yokai Watch here if you need it.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Just out of curiosity, who do you think is the worst character in smash 4? ...Palutena for me. :/

Miss Fit (how fitting).

Not that I don't like her or anything, she's just the only character who completely doesn't work for me play-wise. Even with characters I don't like to play much, I can still use them at least somewhat, but it's like she just doesn't function correctly.

 

[Alph Aran]

Probably Hitmonlee. It did show up as a stage hazard. Could be a favorite Fighting-Type in his time.

 

[StormC]

Basically how I look at it:

Charizard: Been said.
Squirtle: Starter, a mascot, easier to work with than Bulbasaur and arguably more popular than his evolutions.
Gengar: Popular, unique as the only Ghost type at the time.
Rhydon: The first Pokemon ever created, which might be a trivia fact that appeals to Sakurai.
Poliwhirl: Was more of a mascot during the gen 1 days than he is now.

 

[Talpr1]

Personally I don't think it would've been a starter for the same reason Ash was given Pikachu. So that there wouldn't be bias towards any one in particular. The only reason Charizard got in to Smash 4 solo was to salvage some of the Trainer character...

uh, I didn't think about that. Then, probabily Snorlax. It's a Pokemon with lots of fans, that was owned by Ash and has somewhat of a "gameplay relevance".

 

[Pakky]

Basically how I look at it:

Poliwhirl: Was more of a mascot during the gen 1 days than he is now.

How so? The manga?

 

[N3ON]

Actually I think the reason Charizard wasn't included was because Sakurai might have been somewhat uncomfortable only choosing one out of the three starters to include in Smash solely due to popularity. This is why I think starters weren't in Smash until Brawl.

Well Sakurai did consider the Johto trainer for Melee but it didn't work out for one reason or another that I can't remember now (could've been too intensive for a character, could've been technical limitations, I dunno) so I think he only settled on the Kanto trainer once Brawl rolled around and he returned to the idea. I mean once he settled on the Kanto starters Charizard would be the obvious pick for the final stage one, but I think the Trainer idea predated the idea for Charizard in Smash.

The reason I said Charizard anyway was because both Pikachu and Jigglypuff were chosen due to their immense popularity (the latter moreso in Japan), and if popularity was the biggest factor in Pokémon character inclusion then at the very least Charizard might have been considered.

I'm not going to say Charizard wasn't popular (to be fair, the Japanese do lean more towards the cute Pokemon than the tough, cool ones) but for what it's worth, Charizard didn't even chart on the Melee poll while the Trainer and Bulbasaur both did.

Since Charizard was avoided until Brawl though, I'm not sure who else besides Mewtwo and the other starters would have made it from the first generation.

Probably Meowth.

 

[YoshiandToad]

If a different Pokemon had been included in 64 instead of Jigglypuff, excluding Mewtwo and Meowth, who do you think it would've been?

Meowt-oh. Excluding. Hmm...

Errr...Psyduck maybe? He, like Jigglypuff was a popular character in the anime around the same time. Otherwise Charizard has always been the most popular Pokemon amongst young boys for being a fire breathing dragon*.

*not actually a dragon. Except Mega X form.

 

[StormC]

How so? The manga?

That and in general he was pretty prominent in merchandise and promotion. Nowadays he's faded away.

 

[Pakky]

Okay here's a question: Which Pokemon will get cut in smash5? My money is on Greninja, unless something with it develops soon,

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Okay here's a question: Which Pokemon will get cut in smash5? My money is on Greninja, unless something with it develops soon,

None.
It unneccesarily stupid to cut someone for kicks and giggles.

 

[StormC]

Okay here's a question: Which Pokemon will get cut in smash5? My money is on Greninja, unless something with it develops soon,

None.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Okay here's a question: Which Pokemon will get cut in smash5? My money is on Greninja, unless something with it develops soon,

Pichu still.
Probably.

Ivysaur and Squirtle possibly too.

 

[N3ON]

Okay here's a question: Which Pokemon will get cut in smash5? My money is on Greninja, unless something with it develops soon,

Mewtwo again.

 

[aldelaro5]

None.
It unneccesarily stupid to cut someone for kicks and giggles.

I shed tears because I actually did see people that wanted dr mario cut for Paper Mario.....

 

[Pakky]

None.
It unneccesarily stupid to cut someone for kicks and giggles.

Really? Alright, but let me say this, despite what you've said cuts have happened before and despite what people may think Pokemon do get "replaced" and if someone was left on the cutting room floor, that only means that the more popular one took precedent over someone who wasn't. Lucario vs Mewtwo in Brawl for example, Lucario just had a movie and became the face of that generation, Mewtwo had no presence during that time that was extremely significant other than in SSHG.

Mewtwo again.

Oh you.

 

[StormC]

Really? Alright, but let me say this, despite what you've said cuts have happened before and despite what people may think Pokemon do get "replaced"

No they don't. Mewtwo was cut from Brawl because he was low priority, not because Lucario replaced him.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Okay here's a question: Which Pokemon will get cut in smash5? My money is on Greninja, unless something with it develops soon,

I'd say that Greninja is the most likely one. Pikachu and Lucario are both mascots of Pokemon, Charizard is too popular to be cut, Jigglypuff has become a staple in Smash, and almost everyone wanted Mewtwo back + he is also too popular to be cut (again).

However, I think that we'll most likely get Smash 4 Pokemon (including Mewtwo) + a 7th/8th Generation Pokemon.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Since they have already tested the waters with DLC and more than likely he's only going to create one version of the game, I highly doubt anyone in the base game (aside from Dark Pit and Lucina) would get cut unless time constraints get in the way again.

 

[Pakky]

No they don't. Mewtwo was cut from Brawl because he was low priority, not because Lucario replaced him.

They move differently but come now, isn't strange that they're specials are, well ,similar?

Also Squirtle was kicked for Greninja.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Squirtle and Ivysaur were unfortunately cut but neither were removed to make room for Greninja.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Since they have already tested the waters with DLC and more than likely he's only going to create one version of the game, I highly doubt anyone in the base game (aside from Dark Pit and Lucina) would get cut unless time constraints get in the way again.

Dr. Mario could be in danger as well, but I agree otherwise.

EDIT: Does anyone think that some of the current 4 DLC characters will be in base game in Smash 5?

 

[Pakky]

Squirtle and Ivysaur were unfortunately cut but neither were removed to make room for Greninja.

Fair enough...

 

[Arcanir]

They move differently but come now, isn't strange that they're specials are, well ,similar?

Also Squirtle was kicked for Greninja.

Only Neutral B is similar, everything else about the characters are very different down to their core. Lucario "replaced" Mewtwo as much as PT and other newcomers did, they were character that happened to be playable while Mewtwo fell off due to low priority, there's never an intention to put them in at the expense of Mewtwo.

Same with Squirtle (and Ivysaur) as mentioned before, they weren't removed to make room for him. If anything, they were removed as a consequence of the transformation mechanic being ditched for Smash 4.

 

[Kenith]

None.
It unneccesarily stupid to cut someone for kicks and giggles.

No one is ever cut for "kicks and giggles". Characters are cut due to being low priority and time constraints.
If Greninja doesn't proof to be popular like the rest of the Pokemon then he may very well be low-priority next time.
(He probably will not be though)

Also:

Also Squirtle was kicked for Greninja.

There is no proof of this. By this logic you might as well say Sceptile was planned too.

 

[Baskerville]

I just hope in a future iteration Palutena's default specials are mixed up a bit.

Because words can't expressed my loathing towards her default specials.

I can only imagine what she would be like with Lightweight as a default Down B... oh wait, I do. =P

Oh customs, you're the best and dumbest thing that's ever happened to Smash 4.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

If a different Pokemon had been included in 64 instead of Jigglypuff, excluding Mewtwo and Meowth, who do you think it would've been?

Imagine if they stayed with the original Idea to give Ash a Clefairy in the anime, then Clefairy wold be the one that would in Smash and every single place you look

 

[Pakky]

EDIT: Does anyone think that some of the current 4 DLC characters will be in base game in Smash 5?

All of them, even Ryu because everyone loves money.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

All of them, even Ryu because everyone loves money.

I also think that all of them will be in base game, unless time constraints force devs to cut some of them.

 

[Pakky]

Also:

There is no proof of this. By this logic you might as well say Sceptile was planned too.

... How? I hate these "by your logic" examples and then a example that has nothing to do with what I said is given. I just find it suspect that a water starter was replaced with another water starter.

 

[Roaring Salsa]

I'd prefer if for the next Smash, this becomes Palutena's default moveset:
B: Autoreticle
Side B: Super Speed
Up B: Warp
Down B: Lightweight

Though I'd be okay if Reflect Barrier stays, just replace Counter, please. Who needs a reflector and a counter?

 

[Kenith]

... How? i hate these "by your logic" examples and then a example that has nothing to do with what I said is given. I just find it suspect that a water starter was replaced with another water starter.

My example is actually completely accurate to your claim.
They didn't cut Squirtle because there was a better water starter, they cut Squirtle because he wasn't important compared to other characters.
Greninja just happened to one of those important characters (for reasons not relevant in any way to being a Water type)

 

[Pakky]

I also think that all of them will be in base game, unless time constraints force devs to cut some of them.

If Capcom relations improve I expect a Ken alt for Ryu or the addition of Chun Li or both.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

I'm mostly fine with Palutena's Default, I'd prefer if Auto-reticle was a vB and Celestial Fireworks was a Neutral

 

[Kenith]

If Capcom relations improve, Jill or Leon please before another Street Fighter character.
Also, Amaterasu and Phoenix Wright would be cool too.

 

[Pakky]

If Capcom relations improve, Jill or Leon please before another Street Fighter character.
Also, Amaterasu and Phoenix Wright would be cool too.

You know this how? Chun Li is way more popular than anyone you just mentioned and has a history of accompanying Ryu in fighters that aren't street fighter focused but has the series as a guest. Not to mention she's almost as much as a gaming icon as Ryu is.

My example is actually completely accurate to your claim.
They didn't cut Squirtle because there was a better water starter, they cut Squirtle because he wasn't important compared to other characters.
Greninja just happened to one of those important characters (for reasons not relevant in any way to being a Water type)

Sceptile has nothing to do with this though... For the rest, fair enough.

 

[Talpr1]

Sakurai probably doesn't want to go again through the fanbase rioting because a popular Pokemon was cut. This is also probably the reason why Ike didn't get cut.

 

[StormC]

They move differently but come now, isn't strange that they're specials are, well ,similar?

Except that the only special that's similar is their standard special. All the others are completely different.

I guess replaced then due to both having a chargeable projectile formed in their hands. Oh...

Also Squirtle was kicked for Greninja.

No he wasn't. This one makes even less sense as Squirtle and Greninja couldn't play any more differently.