Character Discussion Thread

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Metal Face is supposed to give you a point in time matches. They cut that.
Sakurai started on Mewtwo at around October, yes? He was released 6 months later, but with multiple characters. Ridley clearly wasn't rushed but lazily done. Otherwise Ridley wouldn't have been hinted at for more than a year

That's why I was postulating he was scrapped sometime between the original concept and the Pyrosphere reveal, not so sure when. It makes sense considering the final product, but again it could also be an oversight and I'm reading into it too far.

 

[StormC]

I think it's really unfortunate the Smash fanbase seems to think Sakurai is some crazy ebin man who puts random characters in just for ****s and giggles, and how this justifies their favorite obscure character.

A lot of people like to point fingers at Ice Climbers when it comes to "anything can happen!", even though they're ignoring why the ICs were in Smash to begin with (To rep old NES action games, and because of their gimmick).

Yeah, I hate how people just think Sakurai is Willy Wonka. It's nonsense.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's why I was postulating he was scrapped sometime between the original concept and the Pyrosphere reveal, not so sure when. It makes sense considering the final product, but again it could also be an oversight and I'm reading into it too far.

If Sakurai tried to make Ridley playable at one point...Why not say that? Chrom got mentioned, Takamaru got mentioned...Ridley didn't. We know Ridley was functional in April too!

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

If Sakurai tried to make Ridley playable at one point...Why not say that? Chrom got mentioned, Takamaru got mentioned...Ridley didn't. We know Ridley was functional in April too!

It may be he was scrapped early on and there was very little done in terms of work; so little that it wasn't worth mentioning. We just don't know at this point.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It may be he was scrapped early on and there was very little done in terms of work; so little that it wasn't worth mentioning. We just don't know at this point.

Chrom was apparently on the roster screen at one point, Takamaru didn't even make it past 'consideration'. How could Ridley get past the 'consideration' phase if Sakurai said "He's better as a boss"

 

[Kenith]

I think it's really unfortunate the Smash fanbase seems to think Sakurai is some crazy ebin man who puts random characters in just for ****s and giggles, and how this justifies their favorite obscure character.
A lot of people like to point fingers at Ice Climbers when it comes to "anything can happen!", even though they're ignoring why the ICs were in Smash to begin with (To rep old NES action games, and because of their gimmick).

And while Sakurai does add a surprise character in every iteration of Smash, they always have merit on their own anyway; the only thing Duck Hunt, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. lacked were requests.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Chrom was apparently on the roster screen at one point, Takamaru didn't even make it past 'consideration'. How could Ridley get past the 'consideration' phase if Sakurai said "He's better as a boss"

He could have decided upon it after the initial design was done and simply not mentioned it because he didn't find a highly unfinished base very notable in the grand scheme of things? There's a lot of potentials that we're not sure about with the Ridley/Sakurai relationship. Was Ridley cut due to time, or Sakurai thinking it didn't work, or was it some other factors that caused the path to go the way it did? We're not sure, and probably won't be for a long time.

 

[Dinoman96]

And while Sakurai does add a surprise character in every iteration of Smash, they always have merit on their own anyway; the only thing Duck Hunt, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. lacked were requests.

That's basically what I was getting at, yes. Duck Hunt represents the NES Zapper, Mr. G&W represents the Game & Watch line, and R.O.B. represents, well, R.O.B. Likewise, WFT represents the time when Nintendo dominated the casual market. Rosalina represents the Mario Galaxy games, two of Nintendo's most critically acclaimed games ever.

Obviously these characters were added because of their significance in Nintendo's history (and as well as their playstyles), but some people like to think Sakurai is some wicked troll and he added all these characters to mess with people, and therefore this means he's going to include characters like Chibi-Robo or the Teleroboxer guy or something.

 

[Champ Gold]

I think it's really unfortunate the Smash fanbase seems to think Sakurai is some crazy ebin man who puts random characters in just for ****s and giggles, and how this justifies their favorite obscure character.

A lot of people like to point fingers at Ice Climbers when it comes to "anything can happen!", even though they're ignoring why the ICs were in Smash to begin with (To rep old NES action games, and because of their gimmick).

It's why I kinda started to dislike those gimmick type characters/wacky characters because what makes them special is how unique they are and how they can't be replace or recreated into another character.

Having more of them kinda defeats the purpose of what they are. Plus the idea of Sakurai being some rusemaster troll needs to stop since his was mostly accidental and rarely on purpose

He ain't Kojima or Ed Boon.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He could have decided upon it after the initial design was done and simply not mentioned it because he didn't find a highly unfinished base very notable in the grand scheme of things? There's a lot of potentials that we're not sure about with the Ridley/Sakurai relationship. Was Ridley cut due to time, or Sakurai thinking it didn't work, or was it some other factors that caused the path to go the way it did? We're not sure, and probably won't be for a long time.

Sakurai said he thinks Ridley's best as a boss. There's your answer. Ridley, Chrom and arguably Takamaru were highly requested. Only Ridley didn't get any mention whether he was considered or not

 

[Deleted member]

And while Sakurai does add a surprise character in every iteration of Smash, they always have merit on their own anyway; the only thing Duck Hunt, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. lacked were requests.

Do not forget .


EDIT :

Pretty much sums up Sakurai's balancing philosophy.~

 

[Roberto zampari]

Will Sakurai replace Diddy Kong with Dixie Kong in the next smash game for NX?

 

[Schnee117]

Will Sakurai replace Diddy Kong with Dixie Kong in the next smash game for NX?

Why? Why replace Donkey Kong's sidekick?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Will Sakurai replace Diddy Kong with Dixie Kong in the next smash game for NX?

I'm pretty sure Diddy's more popular than Dixie, so no

 

[Roberto zampari]

Pretty much sums up Sakurai's balancing philosophy.~

This is the reason why i reply about Diddy Kong.
It's about Diddy Kong's unbalanced state.

 

[Schnee117]

This is the reason why i reply this.

Nerfing a character to "balance" them doesn't mean they'll get removed in the next entry.
Have you played other fighting games? Because nerfs are a huge thing in them.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is the reason why i reply about Diddy Kong.
It's about Diddy Kong's unbalanced state.

In that case, I agree, just like how Meta Knight was replaced

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Will Sakurai replace Diddy Kong with Dixie Kong in the next smash game for NX?

@Diddy Kong would never forgive Sakurai if that happened. And no, that won't happen, Diddy will never be cut from Smash.

 

[A Distant Demon]

This is the reason why i reply about Diddy Kong.
It's about Diddy Kong's unbalanced state.

Balance doesnt work that way. If it did Meta knight wouldnt be here in smash 4.

You can always just adjust numbers and moves. Diddy is also a really popular character in and out of smash and he is almost certainly going to be in every smash from now on. He won't get replaced by the lesser character especially because of game balance of all reasons.

 

[Champ Gold]

Anyone who says Diddy is still broken is crazier than a nut house.

HOO HAA was the reason why his reputation was hell and how he was on the tier list and balance.

Since the patch, his status was dropped a tier where he was still good but started to show how outclassed he was especially by & certain cases of &.

And considering how & fair, Diddy might be around where & are.

HOO HAA is what made him a destructive and brain dead character and Sakurai killed that from him.

 

[BKupa666]

I think it's really unfortunate the Smash fanbase seems to think Sakurai is some crazy ebin man who puts random characters in just for ****s and giggles, and how this justifies their favorite obscure character.

A lot of people like to point fingers at Ice Climbers when it comes to "anything can happen!", even though they're ignoring why the ICs were in Smash to begin with (To rep old NES action games, and because of their gimmick).

I'll add onto this...it's unfortunate that he's treated as this mythical being who can do no wrong instead of just a normal developer with strengths and weaknesses. People will say that "That's not true, people complain all the time!!" but almost every last one of those complaints is written off as "immature" or "whiny" or "insignificant," and their makers marginalized.

This holds true for gameplay philosophies ("Melee was too fast because he said so, so shut up, Melee fans!"), character design ("Ganondorf makes sense! Stop complaining about Wario!"), character choice ("Ridley really was too big! Who cares about K. Rool! This shock choice was so genius!"), or anything in between ("Who cares! It's just a game! It's fun! Nothing you say matters because I disagree with it!").

I can't think of another series (books/films/other games/TV shows) where this level of shutting down critics is such a mainstream phenomenon. And before it comes up, yes, not all of the people making such criticisms do so smartly or eloquently, but most fans seem perfectly content to throw the babies out with the bathwater, so to speak.

 

[Wintropy]

Well, yet there is a distinct difference between making a point and just ignoring criticism.

I don't think we should rail on Wariodorf just to be controversial and stick it to Sakurai, for example, that's equally as irrational and obnoxious.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'll add onto this...it's unfortunate that he's treated as this mythical being who can do no wrong instead of just a normal developer with strengths and weaknesses. People will say that "That's not true, people complain all the time!!" but almost every last one of those complaints is written off as "immature" or "whiny" or "insignificant," and their makers marginalized.

This holds true for gameplay philosophies ("Melee was too fast because he said so, so shut up, Melee fans!"), character design ("Ganondorf makes sense! Stop complaining about Wario!"), character choice ("Ridley really was too big! Who cares about K. Rool! This shock choice was so genius!"), or anything in between ("Who cares! It's just a game! It's fun! Nothing you say matters because I disagree with it!").

I can't think of another series (books/films/other games/TV shows) where this level of shutting down critics is such a mainstream phenomenon. And before it comes up, yes, not all of the people making such criticisms do so smartly or eloquently, but most fans seem perfectly content to throw the babies out with the bathwater, so to speak.

Reminds me of the people who said "You should be happy that you finally have a new Metroid game!".

 

[BKupa666]

Reminds me of the people who said "You should be happy that you finally have a new Metroid game!".

The Smash equivalent to that is generally either "Sakurai works so hard, so be thankful for literally everything" or some stupid quip about how "Smash fans complain about getting MORE stuff in the game." I mean, it should go without saying that a guy with painful tendonitis passionate about getting us games we'll enjoy should be highly respected for his dedication, though it's debatable whether quantity or quality is ideal in a game.

There will always be people who complain just for the sake of venting or, say, getting as large a GameFAQs thread as possible. They are indeed obnoxious, but the thing is, when users come in to respond, they don't tell the user they're out of line, they attack the very idea that anything is wrong with the game at all. That's a pain for the people who discuss aspects of the game they don't like with the intention of raising attention and hopefully getting them changed down the line.

Silence is as good as approval with cases like character movesets, Ridley's role or the treatment of the DK series.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Reminds me of the people who said "You should be happy that you finally have a new Metroid game!".

To be fair, at least Other M didn't murder the series forever now.

Meanwhile, F-Zero hasn't gotten a new console game since 2003i, with no announcement of future installments in sight.

 

[Schnee117]

To be fair, at least Other M didn't murder the series forever now.

Meanwhile, F-Zero hasn't gotten a new console game since 2003i, with no announcement of future installments in sight.

The closest we got was the cancelled kickstarter by an Indie.

 

[Roberto zampari]

To be fair, at least Other M didn't murder the series forever now.

And Metroid Prime: Federation Force?

 

[Champ Gold]

I'll add onto this...it's unfortunate that he's treated as this mythical being who can do no wrong instead of just a normal developer with strengths and weaknesses. People will say that "That's not true, people complain all the time!!" but almost every last one of those complaints is written off as "immature" or "whiny" or "insignificant," and their makers marginalized.

This holds true for gameplay philosophies ("Melee was too fast because he said so, so shut up, Melee fans!"), character design ("Ganondorf makes sense! Stop complaining about Wario!"), character choice ("Ridley really was too big! Who cares about K. Rool! This shock choice was so genius!"), or anything in between ("Who cares! It's just a game! It's fun! Nothing you say matters because I disagree with it!").

I can't think of another series (books/films/other games/TV shows) where this level of shutting down critics is such a mainstream phenomenon. And before it comes up, yes, not all of the people making such criticisms do so smartly or eloquently, but most fans seem perfectly content to throw the babies out with the bathwater, so to speak.

I think it became more of your character sucks but mine doesn't. Smash Bros fan base is a double edged sword of quality. And its problems and issues revolve around how sometimes obnoxious people can be with characters, especially the detractors. Biggest example was how much hell got before his reveal and afterwards he's probably regarded as the most like character here.


That and more and more you realize that the choices and request for characters in Smash shrink more and more to where they we have to add random nooks in there just to appease people for a new character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The Smash equivalent to that is generally either "Sakurai works so hard, so be thankful for literally everything" or some stupid quip about how "Smash fans complain about getting MORE stuff in the game." I mean, it should go without saying that a guy with painful tendonitis passionate about getting us games we'll enjoy should be highly respected for his dedication, though it's debatable whether quantity or quality is ideal in a game.

There will always be people who complain just for the sake of venting or, say, getting as large a GameFAQs thread as possible. They are indeed obnoxious, but the thing is, when users come in to respond, they don't tell the user they're out of line, they attack the very idea that anything is wrong with the game at all. That's a pain for the people who discuss aspects of the game they don't like with the intention of raising attention and hopefully getting them changed down the line.

Silence is as good as approval with cases like character movesets, Ridley's role or the treatment of the DK series.

It's funny as everytime this happens, it's with Nintendo. Something I said on my previous post that somehow got cut out. Fire Emblem Fates is probably having some of this, but not because of the game being falsely accused of homophobia

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

And Metroid Prime: Federation Force?

That is pissy fanboys whining that they did not get what they wanted. They should just be ignored, since we barely have any info on the game at this point.

 

[Arcadenik]

Gen 1 Pokemon really are the most popular ones, there was a poll about greatest Pokemon of all-time (it included Gen 6 as well, although no Pokemon from it made to the Top 25), in which all Pokemon in Top 5 were from Gen 1 (Charizard, Mewtwo, Blastoise, Mew and Gengar) and 14 Pokemon in Top 25 were from Gen 1.

EDIT: They also had a poll about worst Pokemon of all-time, in which only one Gen 1 Pokemon (Zubat) made it to the Top 25.

We have 8 confirmed playable characters in Pokken... but notice how 4 of them are from 1st gen. Exactly. 1st gen is that popular.

1st gen
- Pikachu
- Charizard
- Machamp
- Gengar

2nd gen
- Suicune

3rd gen
- Gardevoir

4th gen
- Lucario
- Weavile

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That is pissy fanboys whining that they did not get what they wanted. They should just be ignored, since we barely have any info on the game at this point.

First of all, we've gotten quite a lot of info, second, the only thing I consider overreacting is the petition. Funny enough, there's now a petition to cancel the petition to cancel FF

 

[StormC]

I think a big misconception too is that the people who criticize Sakurai and/or the series are very cynical and just hate on the games, even though a lot of the time these folks buy, play, and love every game in the series, but they have criticisms (legitimate or otherwise) that they voice in hopes that they get addressed. I know I was really disappointed with the 3DS roster and content, but I still lined up to buy it at midnight and I've put well over 150 hours into the game between both console versions.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'll add onto this...it's unfortunate that he's treated as this mythical being who can do no wrong instead of just a normal developer with strengths and weaknesses. People will say that "That's not true, people complain all the time!!" but almost every last one of those complaints is written off as "immature" or "whiny" or "insignificant," and their makers marginalized.

This holds true for gameplay philosophies ("Melee was too fast because he said so, so shut up, Melee fans!"), character design ("Ganondorf makes sense! Stop complaining about Wario!"), character choice ("Ridley really was too big! Who cares about K. Rool! This shock choice was so genius!"), or anything in between ("Who cares! It's just a game! It's fun! Nothing you say matters because I disagree with it!").

I can't think of another series (books/films/other games/TV shows) where this level of shutting down critics is such a mainstream phenomenon. And before it comes up, yes, not all of the people making such criticisms do so smartly or eloquently, but most fans seem perfectly content to throw the babies out with the bathwater, so to speak.

To be fair, those figurative babies are capable of getting up and scooping up the tossed bathwater to splash back at the throwers, albeit ineffectively. Maybe they shouldn't have used bath salts in the first place?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

To be fair, at least Other M didn't murder the series forever now.

The fact that there are some fans who actually view the game as good is mind-blowing. Some even go as to argue that Samus had to mentally prepare herself when killing him in Super Metroid and the fact that all fan needs to read the canon Metroid manga to understand Samus's PTSD in Other M.

But that still doesn't stop the fact that the game had so many flaws from a gameplay and story perspective. Then again, there are bound to be white knights that defend a game no matter how terrible it is (Other M, Yoshi's New Island, Sonic 2006, Stars Fox Adventures, ect.).

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

The fact that there are some fans who actually view the game as good is mind-blowing. Some even go as to argue that Samus had to mentally prepare herself when killing him in Super Metroid and the fact that all fan needs to read the canon Metroid manga to understand Samus's PTSD in Other M.

But that still doesn't stop the fact that the game had so many flaws from a gameplay and story perspective. Then again, there are bound to be white knights that defend a game no matter how terrible it is (Other M, Yoshi's New Island, Sonic 2006, Stars Fox Adventures, ect.).

I'm hoping I don't come across as one of said white knights, but I actually liked Other M's gameplay. It was pretty much the most (read: only) redeeming thing about the game. There are far worse things for a game to have as its only strong-point. It was an awful Metroid game, but I think it would have had merit otherwise were it something different altogether.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm hoping I don't come across as one of said white knights, but I actually liked Other M's gameplay. It was pretty much the most (read: only) redeeming thing about the game. There are far worse things for a game to have as its only strong-point. It was an awful Metroid game, but I think it would have had merit otherwise were it something different altogether.

The gameplay was still crap, though the issues it had are easy to fix unlike the main reasons MOM is hated

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The gameplay was still crap, though the issues it had are easy to fix unlike the main reasons MOM is hated

Metroid Other M.

M.O.M

Other M.

Mother.

*mind blown*

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Metroid Other M.

M.O.M

Other M.

Mother.

*mind blown*

BABY'S CRY
BOTTLESHIP
SEXISM
IT ALL MAKES SENSE!

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Metroid Other M.

M.O.M

Other M.

Mother.

*mind blown*

Sexism confirmed!

Oh wait, that already happened with Super Princess Peach. But it was fun seeing the female rights groups being triggered by the idea of fighting with your out of control moods. No matter why Peach never had such abilities in any Smash title since Sakurai would be afraid of offending them.