Character Discussion Thread

[Ura]

Well, I gotta question if Roy and Lucas were really "fun characters that bring a lot to the table"?

Lucas is great and all, but his movepool in MOTHER 3 offers little more than what Ness can do in Earthbound (not that either use much of their own abilities in SSB). And Roy's not bad, but at the time of addition, we didn't even know anything about his character. As far as SSB is concerned, it was "Marth with fire."

People give Roy to much flak. If you know how to use him properly, he can easily be one of the best characters. Don't know how he managed to get so low in the tier rankings. Even Zelda is ahead of him, SMH.

 

[Pacack]

People give Roy to much flak. If you know how to use him properly, he can easily be one of the best characters. Don't know how he managed to get so low in the tier rankings. Even Zelda is ahead of him, SMH.

Think it mainly has to do with how much better Marth is than him. If you're going to learn one of two clone characters, then you're going to pick the one that's higher on the tier list. Since there are so many people who main Marth and so few who main Roy, there's probably a more significant gap between them on the tier list than there should be (due to bias).

That said, I still kinda agree that Roy's not a great character competitively. The Marth moveset really didn't transition well onto Roy with his center-of-the-sword mechanic since the moveset was practically made around Marth's using the tip of his sword, and; once you take away the mechanic that the moveset was built around, the moveset just doesn't work great.

 

[Deleted member]

@ andimidna
Though something else came up today that's even more depressing than Waluigi's disconfirmation, I am a man of my word and will continue the discussion now like I said I would.

Ironically, being depressed is making me more mellow, so this post is going to be quite calm.
You seem to be under the assumption that I'm saying conflicting statements in regards to my mentioning of Daisy and Rosalina. That I am saying that both are just Peach copies and b) they both can easily be individualized from Peach in Smash. This is not true.
This is why I kept saying you were missing the context.

Why I brought up Daisy in the first place is because of the latter point. You see, Habanero (now known as Xenoblaze) for the longest time has upheld the position that no potential Mario character was anything interesting (which includes Rosalina, whose inclusion would be "forced" as I have record of him saying). Now, after Rosalina has been revealed with her special puppeteer style, he's very quick to defend her as if he was always supportive of her for reasonings that are borderline hypocrisy, given his rants against the likes of Chrom and statements regarding other Mario characters.
Case in point, his statement that anyone who thought she would be anything like Peach pre-reveal was an idiot. (Which opens up a separate case of double standard on your part, criticizing me for calling him out on this as "coming out of nowhere and being rude", yet not addressing that the very statement I called him out on was just as rude on a grander scale. It's awfully biased.)
And yet, Bowser Jr. was (and still is) nothing but a Bowser mini-me to him despite the same logic that applied in the Rosalina case applying to Jr. (given that Jr. does not fight at all like his father nor has the proper body type to do so in Smash, and Jr. has consistently shown usage of a signature weapon Bowser has no access to as well as being more mech-based in his various fights unlike Bowser).
The "Rosalina never did *lists Peach's Smash moves* and Peach doesn't have cosmic powers" point is a further sign of the hypocrisy, which is where Daisy came in. Daisy also never did what he listed outside of using two of three various blunt instruments and a parasol (for one minigame all playable characters used one in Mario Party 3, as I mentioned Wednesday), and Peach doesn't have phytokinetic power like Daisy does. Yet Daisy was seen as nothing special from Peach while Rosalina *supposedly* was, despite said "cosmic powers" being limited to levitation (which Peach has temporary ability of), forcefields (which Peach sort of does in Smash through the Toad Guard), and psychokinesis/gravity manipulation (whichever applies most), an ability Peach has no alternative to, but one already heavily emulated through a different Smash character .

I hope this clears it up now, and explains why the counterpoints you gave in regards to my mentioning of Daisy were irrelevant in context.

 

[Croph]

On Roy, there are a lot of things that do hinder him that I could list (sorry too lazy to). In the end, he's not the best fighter.

Like what has already been said, the reverse tipper is one thing that doesn't work well with Marth's moves. It's like Sakurai wanted to punish players who spaced well with Roy lol. I wish Roy also has better combos, among other things. If you take a look at the clones on the tier list, they are more or less close to the placement of their original copies, barring Roy and Pichu.

Clones were late additions, and I do believe Melee was somewhat rushed. I really think they needed to work on balancing Roy a bit more. Oh well, would have been interesting to see how Roy would've played in Brawl. Maybe if Roy wasn't an inferior Marth clone people would appreciate him more, I'm not sure. These are a bunch of "what if" questions.

 

[andimidna]

@ andimidna
Though something else came up today that's even more depressing than Waluigi's disconfirmation, I am a man of my word and will continue the discussion now like I said I would.

Ironically, being depressed is making me more mellow, so this post is going to be quite calm.
You seem to be under the assumption that I'm saying conflicting statements in regards to my mentioning of Daisy and Rosalina. That I am saying that both are just Peach copies and b) they both can easily be individualized from Peach in Smash. This is not true.
This is why I kept saying you were missing the context.

Why I brought up Daisy in the first place is because of the latter point. You see, Habanero (now known as Xenoblaze) for the longest time has upheld the position that no potential Mario character was anything interesting (which includes Rosalina, whose inclusion would be "forced" as I have record of him saying). Now, after Rosalina has been revealed with her special puppeteer style, he's very quick to defend her as if he was always supportive of her for reasonings that are borderline hypocrisy, given his rants against the likes of Chrom and statements regarding other Mario characters.
Case in point, his statement that anyone who thought she would be anything like Peach pre-reveal was an idiot. (Which opens up a separate case of double standard on your part, criticizing me for calling him out on this as "coming out of nowhere and being rude", yet not addressing that the very statement I called him out on was just as rude on a grander scale. It's awfully biased.)
And yet, Bowser Jr. was (and still is) nothing but a Bowser mini-me to him despite the same logic that applied in the Rosalina case applying to Jr. (given that Jr. does not fight at all like his father nor has the proper body type to do so in Smash, and Jr. has consistently shown usage of a signature weapon Bowser has no access to as well as being more mech-based in his various fights unlike Bowser).
The "Rosalina never did *lists Peach's Smash moves* and Peach doesn't have cosmic powers" point is a further sign of the hypocrisy, which is where Daisy came in. Daisy also never did what he listed outside of using two of three various blunt instruments and a parasol (for one minigame all playable characters used one in Mario Party 3, as I mentioned Wednesday), and Peach doesn't have phytokinetic power like Daisy does. Yet Daisy was seen as nothing special from Peach while Rosalina *supposedly* was, despite said "cosmic powers" being limited to levitation (which Peach has temporary ability of), forcefields (which Peach sort of does in Smash through the Toad Guard), and psychokinesis/gravity manipulation (whichever applies most), an ability Peach has no alternative to, but one already heavily emulated through a different Smash character .

I hope this clears it up now, and explains why the counterpoints you gave in regards to my mentioning of Daisy were irrelevant in context.

Oh, okay. Didn't know there was a backstory.
I mean, I DID ask for you to explain... but that's cleared up... good.
Oh look, post #8000 ^^^^

 

[Deleted member]

It's over 8000!

Oh, okay. Didn't know there was a backstory.

Now I feel like Dr. Doofenshmirtz.....
Curse you, andimidna the Platypus.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As a mod, I love it when people take care of arguments peacefully.

@GoldenYuiitusin @ andimidna Good job, you two! :D



So, I've been thinking of a possible scenario.

You must include EVERY character that has EVER been playable in a smash game as a playable character in some method (not limited to simply giving them a slot). Also, don't worry about unconfirmed newcomers, thought the confirmed five should be included. What do you do?

 

[Deleted member]

So, I've been thinking of a possible scenario.

You must include EVERY character that has EVER been playable in a smash game as a playable character in some method (not limited to simply giving them a slot). Also, don't worry about unconfirmed newcomers, thought the confirmed five will. They don't factor here. What do you do?

a) Do I have to factor in Young Link, or can Toon Link pass off as Young Link reincarnate?

b) Does this include Master Hand because of the Melee glitch?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

a) Do I have to factor in Young Link, or can Toon Link pass off as Young Link reincarnate?

b) Does this include Master Hand because of the Melee glitch?

A) Young Link must be playable in some way, though I never said he had to have his own slot.

B) If the character isn't playable by normal means, do not count it.

 

[andimidna]

Shulk, Takamaru, Chrom, Lucina, (Chrom and Lucina), Robin, Roy, Isaac, Ghirahim or Saki

Pick two out of these sword characters to be in Smash4. (Chrom and Lucina tagteam counts as one).

Chrom and Lucina team and Shulk
Ghirahim and Takamaru are also among my most wanted.
I don't dislike any of these characters

 

[Deleted member]

So, I can get away with saying "Toon Link is Young Link", since he is playable in some way on technicality.
After all, Toon Link is a "young Link".
It's like when "Rodan" in Godzilla Destroy All Monsters Melee and Godzilla Save the Earth was renamed "Fire Rodan" in Godzilla Unleashed.

And if that doesn't fly, Toon Link has a Young Link alt.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, I can get away with saying "Toon Link is Young Link", since he is playable in some way on technicality.
After all, Toon Link is a "young Link".
It's like when "Rodan" in Godzilla Destroy All Monsters Melee and Godzilla Save the Earth was renamed "Fire Rodan" in Godzilla Unleashed.

No.

And if that doesn't fly, Toon Link has a Young Link alt.

I'll allow that.

 

[andimidna]

As a mod, I love it when people take care of arguments peacefully.

@GoldenYuiitusin @ andimidna Good job, you two! :D



So, I've been thinking of a possible scenario.

You must include EVERY character that has EVER been playable in a smash game as a playable character in some method (not limited to simply giving them a slot). Also, don't worry about unconfirmed newcomers, thought the confirmed five should be included. What do you do?

Dr. Mario as a Mario costume.
Mewtwo with his own slot.
Pichu's colors for a Pikachu color swap
Roy with his own slot
Young Link as a Toon Link alt?
And everybody from Brawl getting their own slot.

Is this right?

It's over 8000!



Now I feel like Dr. Doofenshmirtz.....
Curse you, andimidna the Platypus.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pichu's colors for a Pikachu color swap

Mmm...

Everything works but this imo.

Pichu deserves more than just a color swap.

 

[?????????????]

So, I've been thinking of a possible scenario.

You must include EVERY character that has EVER been playable in a smash game as a playable character in some method (not limited to simply giving them a slot). Also, don't worry about unconfirmed newcomers, thought the confirmed five should be included. What do you do?

Every character from Brawl and the confirmed 5 have their own slot.
Dr. Mario is a costume.
Young Link is a Majora's Mask incarnate that rotates between Deku, Goron, and Zora abilities.
Mewtwo has his own slot.
Pichu is a duo with another Pichu, creating the "Pichu Bros." slot.
Roy has his own slot.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I would find some way to make Pichu work as a costume for Pikachu, like have it use electrical attacks to make up for the larger hitboxes Pikachu has, just visually.
Dr. Mario would also be a costume, like in Project M. FLUDD could squirt out Pepto Bismol instead of water.
Young Link would also be a costume for Toon Link.
Mewtwo and Roy are their own characters.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

It would feel REALLY pointless to have Young Link unless he's got his masks, so he gets his own slot this way.
Doc... Mario alt I guess?
Pichu and Mewtwo get their own slot.
One of Martha's alts gives him red hair. (But no one can recognize that it is a tribute to Roy. )

 

[AncientTobacco]

So, I've been thinking of a possible scenario.

You must include EVERY character that has EVER been playable in a smash game as a playable character in some method (not limited to simply giving them a slot). Also, don't worry about unconfirmed newcomers, thought the confirmed five should be included. What do you do?

Mewtwo, Brawl characters and the New 5 get their own slots.

The rest are fused together into a single character: Young Dr. Roychu

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

So, I've been thinking of a possible scenario.

You must include EVERY character that has EVER been playable in a smash game as a playable character in some method (not limited to simply giving them a slot). Also, don't worry about unconfirmed newcomers, thought the confirmed five should be included. What do you do?

Pichu, Doc, and YL get alts, Roy and Mewtwo get their own slots, as do all of the Brawl vets and the Confirmed 5

 

[Jaedrik]

-Post about Habanero-

While he does sometimes act impetuous, he has proven himself to be quick to change opinions or acknowledge when he was wrong. I would far rather take this perspective than say he his a 'hypocrite' for supporting something he previously didn't.

 

[Starcutter]

All previous veterans get in.

Mewtwo..... Duh.

Dr. Mario is expanded and given variations from mario based on doctor things, as well as viruses. Has a tether with the stethoscope.

Pichu is back with less moves that damage itself. Side B is one of the moves. These moves are also buffed.

Roy is similar to his appearance in project M.

Young link is just a toon link skin, since toon link is practically young link anyways.


That's how I would like it if all veterans were back.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I always hated the idea of customes for the fallen 5... are we really THAT desperate to get them? YL is considered a different character in the smash universe and represents something completelly different, sakurai dont even want the dr as a costume come on...

I think it will be better just let them be a character again, and if thats not the case, at least a character refference like pichus googles, better end than alternates.

Just my thought.

 

[Starcutter]

I always hated the idea of customes for the fallen 5... are we really THAT desperate to get them? YL is considered a different character in the smash universe and represents something completelly different, sakurai dont even want the dr as a costume come on...

I think it will be better just let them be a character again, and if thats not the case, at least a character refference like pichus googles, better end than alternates.

Just my thought.

I don't want three links...... It doesn't make sense in regards to smash...

 

[Sobreviviente]

I don't want three links...... It doesn't make sense in regards to smash...

Well i do ;D and makes sense considering how zelda works (classic, realistic, cartoonish).
I can understand the dr though.

 

[Starcutter]

From a smash perspective, and NOT the Zelda perspective, it makes NO sense.

Why have three characters so similar they even share the same name? 2 is fine, but three is too much.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Mewtwo is obviously playable.
Pichu has a moveset like this (by me)
Pichu Moveset

Spoiler

Pichu is very fast and is hard to hit.

Neutral B: Ukelele. Pichu pulls out his Ukelele and plays it, sending a wave of music around him like the Barbara the Bat Assist Trophy in Brawl, but it is smaller and weaker. You can press B rapidly to make him play his Ukelele more. Does 7% each hit with a little knockback.

Side B: Iron Tail. Pichu runs forward, then flips and swings his tail, bashing it into the opponent. He does this all very quickly. Deals 12% with big knockback.

Up B: Agility. This move is similar to Pikachu's Quick Attack, but is much faster and goes a bit farther. This also makes Pichu faster for the next 5 seconds.

Down B: Thunder Wave. Pichu sends a wave of electricity that grows bigger around him until it is a foot away. It will disappear after 1.5 seconds. If anyone touches it they will get paralyzed, they will be paralyzed longer depending on there damage.

Final Smash: Thunder Shock. Pichu shoots two giant bolts of lightning on each side of him, dealing huge knockback and damage.

Dr. Mario has something like this but better.

Spoiler

Dr. Mario Moveset

Neutral Special: Megavitamins. Dr. Mario throws a Megavitamin like in Melee. It is a little slower than Mario's Fireballs, but does more damage. Deals 8%.

Side Special: Virus. Dr. Mario throws a virus, they cling onto the opponent and do damage. The Fever viruses do fire damage, the Chill viruses do freeze damage, and the Weird viruses make you slower.

Up Special: Stethoscope. Dr. Mario throws his Stethoscope upwards as as tether recovery. Deals 11%

Down Special: Jar. Dr. Mario pulls out a jar from the game, except it isn't filled with viruses. He can pick up a projectile in it, when he presses Down B again, he throws it.

Final Smash: Pill Rain. Dr. Mario makes pills rain from the sky, hitting everyone.

Roy is playable.
Young Link has Masks.

 

[Gunla]

So, I've been thinking of a possible scenario.

You must include EVERY character that has EVER been playable in a smash game as a playable character in some method (not limited to simply giving them a slot). Also, don't worry about unconfirmed newcomers, thought the confirmed five should be included. What do you do?

Doc and YL are costumes for Mario and Toon Link.
Pichu is a Pokeball Pokemon.
Mewtwo and Roy get slots.
That's always been my ideal solution and what I think is certainly possible.

 

[Ura]

Think it mainly has to do with how much better Marth is than him. If you're going to learn one of two clone characters, then you're going to pick the one that's higher on the tier list. Since there are so many people who main Marth and so few who main Roy, there's probably a more significant gap between them on the tier list than there should be (due to bias).

That said, I still kinda agree that Roy's not a great character competitively. The Marth moveset really didn't transition well onto Roy with his center-of-the-sword mechanic since the moveset was practically made around Marth's using the tip of his sword, and; once you take away the mechanic that the moveset was built around, the moveset just doesn't work great.

Man, if that's what you think, then you never seen me play Roy before lol.

I will agree that Marth is superior to Roy in the areas that you mentioned but the way I see things. It's the player who makes the difference, not the character. One not as skilled player can be using Fox in battle and another highly skilled player can be using Ness and the Ness player may have a good chance of winning.

Some people make it sound like Roy is one of the worst characters in Melee when he's not. Not all his combos end with a forward smash. His down A can be pretty useful for sending characters in the air and then using side B to knock them in to next week. Like I said before, his placement in the tier list is absolutely ridiculous. How in the blue hell does he get below Zelda? He should at least be high B tier or low A tier IMO.

 

[Sobreviviente]

From a smash perspective, and NOT the Zelda perspective, it makes NO sense.

Im not following you there, why it doesnt work from a smash perspective? they are already different characters in the smash universe.

I dont know how "too much" of something is bad considering how many people actually wants YL back or was expecting him over TL, why cant everyone got what they want? why would that be bad for ohters?

I could understand the dislike of one slot for each mario power up, but thats not the case.

 

[Starcutter]

Im not following you there, why it doesnt work from a smash perspective? they are already different characters in the smash universe.

I dont know how "too much" of something is bad considering how many people actually wants YL back or was expecting him over TL, why cant everyone got what they want? why would that be bad for ohters?

I could understand the dislike of one slot for each mario power up, but thats not the case.

I can't believe I need to explain why three aesthetically similar looking characters would be a problem in smash.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

From a smash perspective, and NOT the Zelda perspective, it makes NO sense.

Why have three characters so similar they even share the same name? 2 is fine, but three is too much.

Thats why i still think the idea of tetra/toon zelda is ludicrous , 4 incarnations of the same character is so unnecessary its not even funny.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I can't believe I need to explain why three aesthetically similar looking characters would be a problem in smash.

They even share the same colors, are you sure is the look what you are against? i thought it was the moveset.

Thats why i still think the idea of tetra/toon zelda is ludicrous , 4 incarnations of the same character is so unnecessary its not even funny.

Everyone is a link

There really isnt any difference from picking "lords" in FE.
Reincarnation doesnt exist in the zelda universe, they all are different characters with personalities and stuff, they just share clothes and names, no souls, sadly they also share moves.

Tetra is a different case though, I really would love if she is a standalone character.

 

[Starcutter]

They even share the same colors, are you sure is the look what you are against? i thought it was the moveset.

Its everything. I'd explain in more detail but mobile sucks.

 

[Sobreviviente]

Its everything. I'd explain in more detail but mobile sucks.

I think we are going to enter in personal preference's terrain anyways, but i can guest why you thinks is a problem, is just that for the mayority of people it truly isnt. There are like 6 versions of ryus moveset in street fighter? i dont know.

Im not expecting YL to return in this game anyways, but it will be awesome if it happen.

 

[Ura]

I think we are going to enter in personal preference's terrain anyways, but i can guest why you thinks is a problem, is just that for the mayority of people it truly isnt. There are like 6 versions of ryus moveset in street fighter? i dont know.

Im not expecting YL to return in this game anyways, but it will be awesome if it happen.

A lot of people like to make stupid reasons for why YL shouldn't be included in Smash 4. It's always "oh TL is more unique than YL" and stuff when clearly, their hasn't been an OoT character since Melee rendering their argument completely invalid. People just need to give it a rest.

 

[Sobreviviente]

A lot of people like to make stupid reasons for why YL shouldn't be included in Smash 4. It's always "oh TL is more unique than YL" and stuff when clearly, their hasn't been an OoT character since Melee rendering their argument completely invalid. People just need to give it a rest.

Well people make those excuses because they (1) want more creative and original characters or (2) they simply dont like/care about the character/franchise/game, so at the end is only an opinion. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but is problem when we take it as an evidence or a fact and try to impose it to others, i still thinks diddy is a boring character to look and the entire DK franchise is a mess but anyways...

 

[Oniric Spriter]

Adding Young Link inside Toon Link is stupid, that's like if you make Lucina a costume for Marth. No matter how much of a clone they'll be each other, it makes zero sense.

 

[Autumn ♫]

A lot of people like to make stupid reasons for why YL shouldn't be included in Smash 4. It's always "oh TL is more unique than YL" and stuff when clearly, their hasn't been an OoT character since Melee rendering their argument completely invalid. People just need to give it a rest.

 

[Ura]

Well people make those excuses because they (1) want more creative and original characters or (2) they simply dont like/care about the character/franchise/game, so at the end is only an opinion. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but is problem when we take it as an evidence or a fact and try to impose it to others, i still thinks diddy is a boring character to look and the entire DK franchise is a mess but anyways...

I know, maybe it's because this site is pro TL or something. There's no reason for why YL could at least be an alt for TL.

@ Autumn ♫ Clearly, Shiek in Brawl was a what if Zelda transformed into Shiek in TP so she would be considered a TP character hence the different design.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

@ ????????????? : A game can sell millions of copies. That doesn't necessarily mean it will leave a forever lasting impression on us.

A think Golden Sun is a good example of a game that was popular and sold many copies, but is hardly talked about anymore.