Character Discussion Thread

[Burruni]

Is it sad that I officially want every veteran to come back?

A little bit.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Is it sad that I officially want every veteran to come back?

NO! IT IS AWESOME! (You just get a lot of hassle from the Pichu and Young Link haters)

A little bit.

Like that.

 

[Burruni]

I'm biased against Young Link.

Because he's the veteran with the least to offer imo.

 

[StormC]

Snake and Wolf are the only veterans I care to see return.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Only if there is a very rare chance of a seagull coming and eating it.

Honestly i cant say what im excited for beacuse its mostly things not confirmed.
AKA new IPs or revivals
Kid Icarus? doubtful at best though. . .

-what retro and platinum are working on
-star fox
-xenoblade x
-bravely second maybe?
-smash
-kingdom hearts

everything else is either a new IP or i cant remember

formerly i would have battlefront 3 up there but EA has already made me hate it.

Namesearch bodied.

 

[Burruni]

Guys.

I think we really know why Ryu was chosen over Phoenix, despite Phoenix being a more recent series with stronger Nintendo ties while still kinda being a rebirth to the genre and being massively popular.

Because Phoenix can and will BS his way out of even impossible situations, he'd be too OP.

(language warning)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Welcome to my WALL OF TEXT! It's a little long hence the name, but it's (hopefully) entertaining, and you get to learn stuff (or not). I even made a bad Pheonix Wright impression, so grab some popcorn, and enjoy. (You can even imagine me arguing with myself if it makes this more entertaining as long as you can still take it seriously) (Now in a spoiler box at the request of Burruni.)

Spoiler

My thoughts on veterans: There are some people who haven't been able to play Melee or even Brawl. And even some who have aren't able to play it any more/have few opportunities to do. Some people would like to play those characters again for nostalgia reasons, or just to see what they are like.
Made Up Person That Embodies All Veteran Haters: Then play and.
Me: HOLD IT!
Here is a list of clones and semi-clones in ssb4 and Melee (according to SmashWiki):
Mario and Dr. Mario
Marth and Lucina
Pit and Dark Pit
Mario and Luigi
Link and Toon Link
Fox and Falco
Captain Falcon and Ganondorf
Ness and Lucas
Marth and Roy
Link and Young Link
Pikachu and Pichu
Dr. Mario represents how Mario worked in Melee. There is a slight playstyle difference between the two. Marth and Lucina have very similar playstyles, but they are arguably different. Pit and Dark Pit have literally one difference, so there is no playstyle difference. Luigi is seeming less and less of a Mario clone with each game. Link and Toon Link have very different playstyles. Fox and Falco are very different as well. Ganondorf has Captain Falcon's moveset, and does something totally different with it. Ness and Lucas are barely semi-clones, so you can imagine how different they are. Marth and Roy play much differently. Link and Young Link play differently, as do Pikachu and Pichu.
Wolf isn't even listed as a semi-clone!
The only clones that play the same way as their original counterparts are Dark Pit, and arguably Lucina.
Let's break it down:
Has a different playstyle because players are forced to use some of his moves sparingly, as he is one of the lightest characters, and he can hurt himself. This is why he was bottom tier in Melee. Ssb4 is all about balancing characters, and in order to balance out Pichu, he would have to be reworked. This would make him less of a Pikachu clone, and more of a high risk vs. reward character.
Has a much different playstyle because he has a sweet spot on the hilt of his sword. Additional differences would be that his Flare Blade is a cross between Marth's forward smash, and Ike's Eruption, his up smash has a spike at the tip, and he is slower.
I honestly think Young Link would be a middle ground between Link and Toon Link. He isn't as tall or heavy as Link, but he isn't as short or light as Young Link. He would have weaker forward and back arials than Toon Link, and would lack Link's dash attack. They may even keep Young Link's infinite, something Link lost from Melee to Brawl, and Young Link never had. He also has the Fire Arrows for extra uniqueness.
Was never a clone to begin with. As for balancing, just getting rid of his Brawl physics will help him tremendously.
MUPTEAVH: Ok. I'll admit. Wolf, and Roy, and Snake would be pretty cool, but nobody cares about Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirtle, The Pokémon Trainer, or Young Link.
Me: That my friend is a generalization, and generalizations are usually wrong. Would I be creating this wall of text to defend these characters if I didn't care about them? No. And believe it or not some people genuinely like these characters regardless of whether or not they are in smash.
MUPTEAVH: We have enough Pokémon on the roster without these veterans thank you.
Me: Ah reps. I was wondering when you would bring those up. Two things:
1: Who is to say the roster won't become much bigger than it is now, nullifying the number of "Pokémon Reps"
2: Why should that stop you from liking a character?
MUPTEAVH: We won't get that many DLC characters!
Me: I never said we would I never said we wouldn't, I just said it was possible. However, that is a discussion for later.
MUPTEAVH: Snake and the Ice Climbers are impossible.
Me: You never know. They could surprise us. Especially with Snake's fan demand. As for the Ice Climbers, they are very possible. First of all they are pretty much done on both versions, so all they need is some tweaks. This post is getting long enough already, so I will leave it at that for now.

This marks the end of my WALL OF TEXT! I hope you enjoyed it, and came to like the cut veterans just a little bit more. :3

 

[Burruni]

Welcome to my WALL OF TEXT! It's a little long hence the name, but it's (hopefully) entertaining, and you get to learn stuff (or not). I even made a bad Pheonix Wright impression, so grab some popcorn, and enjoy. (You can even imagine me arguing with myself if it makes this more entertaining as long as you can still take it seriously)
My thoughts on veterans: There are some people who haven't been able to play Melee or even Brawl. And even some who have aren't able to play it any more/have few opportunities to do. Some people would like to play those characters again for nostalgia reasons, or just to see what they are like.
Made Up Person That Embodies All Veteran Haters: Then play and.
Me: HOLD IT!
Here is a list of clones and semi-clones in ssb4 and Melee (according to SmashWiki):
Mario and Dr. Mario
Marth and Lucina
Pit and Dark Pit
Mario and Luigi
Link and Toon Link
Fox and Falco
Captain Falcon and Ganondorf
Ness and Lucas
Marth and Roy
Link and Young Link
Pikachu and Pichu
Dr. Mario represents how Mario worked in Melee. There is a slight playstyle difference between the two. Marth and Lucina have very similar playstyles, but they are arguably different. Pit and Dark Pit have literally one difference, so there is no playstyle difference. Luigi is seeming less and less of a Mario clone with each game. Link and Toon Link have very different playstyles. Fox and Falco are very different as well. Ganondorf has Captain Falcon's moveset, and does something totally different with it. Ness and Lucas are barely semi-clones, so you can imagine how different they are. Marth and Roy play much differently. Link and Young Link play differently, as do Pikachu and Pichu.
Wolf isn't even listed as a semi-clone!
The only clones that play the same way as their original counterparts are Dark Pit, and arguably Lucina.
Let's break it down:
Has a different playstyle because players are forced to use some of his moves sparingly, as he is one of the lightest characters, and he can hurt himself. This is why he was bottom tier in Melee. Ssb4 is all about balancing characters, and in order to balance out Pichu, he would have to be reworked. This would make him less of a Pikachu clone, and more of a high risk vs. reward character.
Has a much different playstyle because he has a sweet spot on the hilt of his sword. Additional differences would be that his Flare Blade is a cross between Marth's forward smash, and Ike's Eruption, his up smash has a spike at the tip, and he is slower.
I honestly think Young Link would be a middle ground between Link and Toon Link. He isn't as tall or heavy as Link, but he isn't as short or light as Young Link. He would have weaker forward and back arials than Toon Link, and would lack Link's dash attack. They may even keep Young Link's infinite, something Link lost from Melee to Brawl, and Young Link never had. He also has the Fire Arrows for extra uniqueness.
Was never a clone to begin with. As for balancing, just getting rid of his Brawl physics will help him tremendously.
MUPTEAVH: Ok. I'll admit. Wolf, and Roy, and Snake would be pretty cool, but nobody cares about Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirtle, The Pokémon Trainer, or Young Link.
Me: That my friend is a generalization, and generalizations are usually wrong. Would I be creating this wall of text to defend these characters if I didn't care about them? No. And believe it or not some people genuinely like these characters regardless of whether or not they are in smash.
MUPTEAVH: We have enough Pokémon on the roster without these veterans thank you.
Me: Ah reps. I was wondering when you would bring those up. Two things:
1: Who is to say the roster won't become much bigger than it is now, nullifying the number of "Pokémon Reps"
2: Why should that stop you from liking a character?
MUPTEAVH: We won't get that many DLC characters!
Me: I never said we would I never said we wouldn't, I just said it was possible. However, that is a discussion for later.
MUPTEAVH: Snake and the Ice Climbers are impossible.
Me: You never know. They could surprise us. Especially with Snake's fan demand. As for the Ice Climbers, they are very possible. First of all they are pretty much done on both versions, so all they need is some tweaks. This post is getting long enough already, so I will leave it at that for now.
This marks the end of my WALL OF TEXT! I hope you enjoyed it, and came to like the cut veterans just a little bit more. :3

(Spoiler) boxes should porbably be used for long posts in the future... or if you wanna edit it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(Spoiler) boxes should porbably be used for long posts in the future... or if you wanna edit it.

I did it...but it has two spoiler boxes...That's why I've put spoiler boxes a total of three times. (besides not knowing how to do it before.)

 

[Burruni]

I did it...but it has two spoiler boxes...That's why I've put spoiler boxes a total of three times. (besides not knowing how to do it before.)

it.. shouldn't. you should just put (Spoiler) before the first usage of red text and (/spoiler) before the last usage of white and it should work out fine, using brackets instead of paranthesis of course.

^^; It's just a kind of a healthy reminder so your posts don't overwhelm a page.

 

[StormC]

As for the Ice Climbers, they are very possible. First of all they are pretty much done on both versions, so all they need is some tweaks. This post is getting long enough already, so I will leave it at that for now.

How would you know it's possible? Are you a developer with access to 3DS development tools? Because the man himself said he tried to make them work on the 3DS, but couldn't.

Squirtle and Ivysaur are cool Pokemon, but I don't feel like they stand on their own very well in a roster, especially compared to Charizard, when it comes to uniqueness and iconic status (though Ivysaur has more to offer overall than Squirtle). Either bring back Pokemon Trainer fully or move on, I say.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

it.. shouldn't. you should just put (Spoiler) before the first usage of red text and (/spoiler) before the last usage of white and it should work out fine, using brackets instead of paranthesis of course.

^^; It's just a kind of a healthy reminder so your posts don't overwhelm a page.

I fixed it yay! (apparently it matters what color the spoiler brackets are.)

 

[Champ Gold]

I feel like they are some characters that should and shouldn't come back.

I would love a Smash game with everyone but certain don't need to be back.

& are the biggest offenders, os half and half and would be nice if didn't exist. & need the full package of to work and since is fine on his own, dont need to bring any them back.

 

[StormC]

Essentially, Charizard is one of the most famous and beloved Pokemon of all time. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's THE most beloved Pokemon, going by at least one poll. It's also unique as a dragon fighter (sorry Ridley) and has other attributes like limited fight and heaviness that make him stand out on the roster.

Ivysaur has a fair amount going for it as a unique fighter (grass fighter, quadruped, vines), but it can't really complete with Charizard in popularity and status, and Squirtle would just be a cute water fighter. I wouldn't be terribly upset if they were brought back, but they're definitely more of a package deal than Charizard was, who can more than stand on his own two legs (bad joke?). Like I said, I'd rather see the fleshed out return of Pokemon Trainer than his picked-out remains.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

& are the biggest offenders

Though to be fair, I wouldn't be completely against seeing Pichu come back in the form of a spiritual successor as Plusle and Minun...

Of course, that would require getting 's mechanics to work again and come back in the first place...

 

[Johnknight1]

Why are people even mad if Pichu or Young Link came back? They'd legit take half the time of bringing Bonus Mode back (I bet some of you don't even know what is the only Smash game Bonus Mode appears int). I mean, unless you really like Bonus Mode, said characters are overpriced DLC, or said clones are really overpowered, there's no reason to hate their return. It's just flat stupid to be so against them.

===

As for Squirtle and Ivysaur, they got plenty to work with to be their own characters.

Honestly I'd still take Ivysaur over Charizard. Charizard's design is still kinda stale. He's essentially a one or two trick pony. His aerials still don't work well with his body composition, and Rock Smash as one of his special moves is still really odd. The character designers still haven't fully optimized Charizard's skillset, whereas with Ivysaur it is much easier to do so (given that more was accomplished).

Plus, man, Project M Ivysaur is really freaking cool.

Of course, that's probably never gonna happen. Charizard's never gonna be cut (and sadly, other far better designed characters like Snake, Iyvsaur, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Lucas, and Wolf were cut while he remained), and Squirtle and Ivysaur are almost definitely not coming back.

Arguing about Mario canon is like trying to explain why Ash or James Bond don't age.

AKA it doesn't matter. Nor does the Zelda timeline.

Honestly, the Zelda timeline needs "James Bond" theory of sorts, maybe with like adjusted "These are separate universes" going on (rather than alternate timelines).

That way the developers of Zelda Games can start from any point in the "Hyrule History" they want without clashing with "muh canon" (which is already muddy at best and incomprehensible at worst).

 

[StormC]

Why are people even mad if Pichu or Young Link came back? They'd legit take half the time of bringing Bonus Mode back

They don't offer anything interesting as fighters for me. I'm also not a fan of joke characters.

It would be one thing to put them in the main game last minute, but I definitely wouldn't pay to play as them.

 

[Johnknight1]

They don't offer anything interesting as fighters for me. I'm also not a fan of joke characters.

It would be one thing to put them in the main game last minute, but I definitely wouldn't pay to play as them.

And that makes plenty of sense. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion. My issue though lies with people being so adamant against the prospect of them coming back period, with no exception.

People believe this false notion that "each character is competing with every other character" and "each character takes the same amount of time to make," which just isn't true. The 6 clones in Melee combined took far less time to make than any single non-clone character. Considering that we got some pretty different clones.

We got Falco who IMO is the best designed Smash character ever by far (literally perfect IMO), Young Link whose' speed took his skillset in an entirely different direction from Link, and Ganondorf taking Captain Falcon's offense into a Smash mouth style. All that in less time from an original character.

As for clone pricing, the $5 for both consoles/$4 for one console pricing would be too much (sans Wolf, who, like Lucas, is distinct enough to warrant his own equal price tag). I think a great idea would be to bundle these clone for free with other newly released characters (with keeping the same price points), as well as in packs. That to me would sound like a solid deal (although I still think $4/$5 per character is a steep cost).

Or heck, maybe even release the clones for free.

But what do I know? I'm too dumb to not buy all of the DLC anyways.

 

[StormC]

Personally, I like clones that are of characters people actually want to see and offer good representation for their series. I think Falco, Ganondorf, and even Lucina are solid examples of this. I mean, for the former two, Sakurai clearly valued these clones more than the rest of the Melee ones come Brawl. We already have a "young" Link and Pichu is, again, a joke character who is intentionally badly designed which isn't something I'm fond of (though if they buffed the hell out of him and made him high risk high reward it might be interesting).

 

[memoryman3]

She had demand specifically for Smash (not as vocal, because Rosalina fans are more reserved), but people wanted her in more games period, as she deserved it more than any other character. That's why she got in.

Even EAD have acknowledged this, so it's not really up for debate. Just look at the Iwata Asks for 3D World.

Reading that Iwata Asks has reminded me to push for Daisy's inclusion even harder so that Nintendo can finally consider her for main titles!

 

[Johnknight1]

Personally, I like clones that are of characters people actually want to see and offer good representation for their series. I think Falco, Ganondorf, and even Lucina are solid examples of this. I mean, for the former two, Sakurai clearly valued these clones more than the rest of the Melee ones come Brawl. We already have a "young" Link and Pichu is, again, a joke character who is intentionally badly designed which isn't something I'm fond of (though if they buffed the hell out of him and made him high risk high reward it might be interesting).

Pretty much my line of thinking.

As someone who going forward is probably going to exclusively main Toon Link in all future Smash entries, I selfishly would want 3 Link's though. I feel like Sakurai's "keep the two Link's similar" mindset makes sense for Young Link and Link, but I don't think Toon Link should fit into that equation. If Toon Link were "set free" by that, his ground game could be way more mobile and acrobatic, and give him some unique offensive efficiency and tools that he needs more than Link and Young Link need on the ground (given his smaller range).

I have that same problem with Project M and Brawl as well.

 

[Cool Typhlosion]

Time to change the topic
Do you think dlc Character costumes will be a thing,

 

[Putuk]

Time to change the topic
Do you think dlc Character costumes will be a thing,

I'm sorta doubting it.
But I'd love to see it.
I'd love to have more alt colors to pick from. I'd love to see some costumes that give characters goofy outfits.
But I just don't see it happening. : /

 

[ChikoLad]

I want them to happen because there are a lot of easy alt costumes they missed out on...

Spoiler

THE TEXTURE IS RIGHT THERE

ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS PLASTER IT OVER 97% OF HER MODEL ASDFGHJKL

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I swear to God, there better not be a Ridley costume for Miis at any point, because that'd just be a kick in the balls.

Actual Ridley DLC, on the other hand...

 

[Burruni]

I want them to happen because there are a lot of easy alt costumes they missed out on...

Spoiler

THE TEXTURE IS RIGHT THERE

ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS PLASTER IT OVER 97% OF HER MODEL ASDFGHJKL

Meanwhile, is still waiting to get 4 of his costumes from Brawl back.... one of which being his GBC color pallette.

Once again, Sakurai cutting away all ties to Wario's real games.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I swear to God, there better not be a Ridley costume for Miis at any point, because that'd just be a kick in the balls.

Actual Ridley DLC, on the other hand...

That doesnt even make sense.


The only alt i wanted was little mac's pinksuit. . . Sakurai did so much good for punch out it's not even funny.

With sakurai saying characters with different stats become clones i honestly dont care much for any particular alt.
Thats also why i dont think we are getting any.

 

[Diddy Kong]

We need more Toon Zelda characters in Hyrule Warriors... we got Tetra (hope she comes with Toon Zelda costume) and King Hyrule... I want Vaati, Oshus (he can transform into a whale), and Chancellor Cole (I like his design).


Illegal? It isn't like we arrest people for double/triple posting... or do we?

Can we just get Toon LINK? I mean, Young Link is there and all. Toon Link shouldn't hurt either right? Yeah, Wind Waker is already a weapon for Zelda- yeah Link has the Master Sword- yeah all that stuff... Just make him work because he'd be cool.

Also lol Ridley talk lol

Always around the E3 or the time when a Direct pops up

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

That doesnt even make sense.

Has Sakurai ever really made any sense? The man does his thing, and we just have to guess if he's doing something untill it's either confirmed or debunked.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

They don't offer anything interesting as fighters for me. I'm also not a fan of joke characters.

It would be one thing to put them in the main game last minute, but I definitely wouldn't pay to play as them.

I feel similar to this. I probably wouldn't play them all that much if they were in the base game....so I certainly wouldn't pay €5.99 to play them. Forget that.

I don't Sakurai is going to (or necessarily even wants to) bring back every veteran though. Sure he said he wants to make the fans happy, but fans of newcomers are fans too. Besides the majority of veteran support goes to Mewtwo, Lucas, Snake, Ice Climbers, Roy and Wolf. The likes of Young Link, Pichu, Squirtle and Ivysaur rarely get a look in.

In the same way there are veterans that don't make the jump to the next Smash game, I think there will be veterans that don't make the jump to Smash dlc.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

The likes of Young Link, Pichu, Squirtle and Ivysaur rarely get a look in.

Eeeeh...in America, at least. In Japan, every veteran has huge fanbases, since Japanese Smash fans doesn't like seeing characters be cut.

 

[Burruni]

Has Sakurai ever really made any sense? The man does his thing, and we just have to guess if he's doing something untill it's either confirmed or debunked.

Yes. He's made a lot of sense across the board.
He does irrational thing like almost wholly disregard WarioLand, being Falcondorf, the choices of every single retro and .

He's a crazy and pretty unpredictable man, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't make sense.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Eeeeh...in America, at least. In Japan, every veteran has huge fanbases, since Japanese Smash fans doesn't like seeing characters be cut.

That may be, but at least the other veterans I mentioned all have sizable western support alongside that Japanese support.

I just can't see Sakurai blindly following the notion that all veterans must return. I doubt it's that simple.

If veterans can miss out on returning in the base game, why is it strange to suggest that veterans could also miss out on dlc?

 

[BluePikmin11]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

"Whether it's a minor character or a character that is one of the most highly skilled and most played," Sakurai said, "if that character is removed from the game, the people who live for that character in Smash Bros. are going to have their feelings hurt.

http://www.nowgamer.com/super-smash-bros-we-dont-have-time-to-bring-all-characters-back/

However, I do believe I understand that each character has its own set of fans out there who really like that character.

“So we’re not going to cut characters out of the way, we’re going to put in as many characters as we can, we really want to do that, because it’s good for the fans and good for all of us.

As long as this exists, I can't discount the possibility of every veteran returning. Given the opportunity he has with the two base games being finished, he certainly has the time to bring everyone back to get every fan of their mains back, even if said character is pretty minor.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Eeeeh...in America, at least. In Japan, every veteran has huge fanbases, since Japanese Smash fans doesn't like seeing characters be cut.

Well, not according to PushDustin's analysis. Young Link isn't even on it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Alright, so I got bored and decided to draw up a character concept for Isabelle that I mentioned last night based on the idea that she would be an "unintentional fighter", in order to stay true to her character.

jab and jab combo - pinwheel (takes out a pinwheel and lets it spin, does weak cutting damage to those caught in it)

dash attack- clip board drop, (like Villager's but drops a click board and several sheets of paper right in front of her, short range and sends opponents upwards)

utilt- party popper (like a weaker version of Villager's usmash)
dtilt- quick broom sweep (can cause tripping)
ftilt- sneeze (a quick sneeze that hits like Fox or Mario's ftilt)

grab- fishing pole (looks frantic and embarrassed when people are caught)
pummel - her trying to get the person untangled
fthrow- accidentally bops them with the fishing pole, sending the opponent forward
bthrow- yanks back on the fishing pole, sending the opponent backwards (very strong)
uthrow- yanks up on the fishing pole, sending the opponent up
dthrow- accidentally trips and falls on the opponent, freeing them and sending them forward

usmash- umbrella open (two hits with the first being her pushing the umbrella up and the other being it opening)
dsmash- strong broom sweep, (hits both sides, can cause tripping)
fsmash- mosquito smack, (tries to hit a mosquito on the opponent with a fly swatter, only to miss and it fly away just as Isabelle swings)

nair- laughter (Isabelle gives a quick laugh and lines appear by her on both sides, can be mashed repeatedly but isn't very strong)
fair- curious (a question mark quickly appears by Isabelle's head, she looks confused and the question mark can do damage while it's out)
bair- inspiration (a light bulb quickly appears by Isabelle's head, it hits hard when it comes out)
uair- balloon pop (takes out a balloon and it pops above her head, startling her)
dair- furniture drop (accidentally drops a leaf that turns into a small filing cabinet or desk, very strong spike)

neutral special- fruit toss (throws a random fruit, much like her assist trophy, similar to Game and Watch's. Damage is dealt based on the fruit)
smash special- megaphone cheer (hurts more the closer the opponent is, does a ton of shield damage when done point blank)
up special- umbrella grip (takes out an umbrella, only to get caught in a sudden updraft, turning the umbrella inside out at its peak and having her look very frantic as she comes down, great height but lacking horizontal movement)
down special- garden (similar to Villager's but only two steps, plants flowers and then has access to a watering can as long as the flowers are alive, the flowers slow down movement, can cause tripping, and may have insects that attack the opponent like a bee or mosquito or, on rare occasions, a rhinoceros beetle that outright throws the opponent)

 

[FalKoopa]

I did it...but it has two spoiler boxes...That's why I've put spoiler boxes a total of three times. (besides not knowing how to do it before.)

If there are multiple spoiler boxes, highlight the [spoiler][/spoiler] tags and remove any formatting (Click the left-most button on the panel, before Bold.)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Last time on WALL OF TEXT!:

Welcome to my WALL OF TEXT! It's a little long hence the name, but it's (hopefully) entertaining, and you get to learn stuff (or not). I even made a bad Pheonix Wright impression, so grab some popcorn, and enjoy. (You can even imagine me arguing with myself if it makes this more entertaining as long as you can still take it seriously) (Now in a spoiler box at the request of Burruni.)

Spoiler

My thoughts on veterans: There are some people who haven't been able to play Melee or even Brawl. And even some who have aren't able to play it any more/have few opportunities to do. Some people would like to play those characters again for nostalgia reasons, or just to see what they are like.
Made Up Person That Embodies All Veteran Haters: Then play and.
Me: HOLD IT!
Here is a list of clones and semi-clones in ssb4 and Melee (according to SmashWiki):
Mario and Dr. Mario
Marth and Lucina
Pit and Dark Pit
Mario and Luigi
Link and Toon Link
Fox and Falco
Captain Falcon and Ganondorf
Ness and Lucas
Marth and Roy
Link and Young Link
Pikachu and Pichu
Dr. Mario represents how Mario worked in Melee. There is a slight playstyle difference between the two. Marth and Lucina have very similar playstyles, but they are arguably different. Pit and Dark Pit have literally one difference, so there is no playstyle difference. Luigi is seeming less and less of a Mario clone with each game. Link and Toon Link have very different playstyles. Fox and Falco are very different as well. Ganondorf has Captain Falcon's moveset, and does something totally different with it. Ness and Lucas are barely semi-clones, so you can imagine how different they are. Marth and Roy play much differently. Link and Young Link play differently, as do Pikachu and Pichu.
Wolf isn't even listed as a semi-clone!
The only clones that play the same way as their original counterparts are Dark Pit, and arguably Lucina.
Let's break it down:
Has a different playstyle because players are forced to use some of his moves sparingly, as he is one of the lightest characters, and he can hurt himself. This is why he was bottom tier in Melee. Ssb4 is all about balancing characters, and in order to balance out Pichu, he would have to be reworked. This would make him less of a Pikachu clone, and more of a high risk vs. reward character.
Has a much different playstyle because he has a sweet spot on the hilt of his sword. Additional differences would be that his Flare Blade is a cross between Marth's forward smash, and Ike's Eruption, his up smash has a spike at the tip, and he is slower.
I honestly think Young Link would be a middle ground between Link and Toon Link. He isn't as tall or heavy as Link, but he isn't as short or light as Young Link. He would have weaker forward and back arials than Toon Link, and would lack Link's dash attack. They may even keep Young Link's infinite, something Link lost from Melee to Brawl, and Young Link never had. He also has the Fire Arrows for extra uniqueness.
Was never a clone to begin with. As for balancing, just getting rid of his Brawl physics will help him tremendously.
MUPTEAVH: Ok. I'll admit. Wolf, and Roy, and Snake would be pretty cool, but nobody cares about Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirtle, The Pokémon Trainer, or Young Link.
Me: That my friend is a generalization, and generalizations are usually wrong. Would I be creating this wall of text to defend these characters if I didn't care about them? No. And believe it or not some people genuinely like these characters regardless of whether or not they are in smash.
MUPTEAVH: We have enough Pokémon on the roster without these veterans thank you.
Me: Ah reps. I was wondering when you would bring those up. Two things:
1: Who is to say the roster won't become much bigger than it is now, nullifying the number of "Pokémon Reps"
2: Why should that stop you from liking a character?
MUPTEAVH: We won't get that many DLC characters!
Me: I never said we would I never said we wouldn't, I just said it was possible. However, that is a discussion for later.
MUPTEAVH: Snake and the Ice Climbers are impossible.
Me: You never know. They could surprise us. Especially with Snake's fan demand. As for the Ice Climbers, they are very possible. First of all they are pretty much done on both versions, so all they need is some tweaks. This post is getting long enough already, so I will leave it at that for now.

This marks the end of my WALL OF TEXT! I hope you enjoyed it, and came to like the cut veterans just a little bit more. :3

Unnecessary recap is unnecessary. This time, I have as special guest: Charizard! I also get to act like pretty much any commercial ever writtin when it comes to disclaimers. So without further adieu: WALL OF TEXT! part 2. (Also in a spoiler box so I don't break the page)

Spoiler

Me: So let's start with Young Link and Pichu. I'm beginning to think that people just don't like Pichu for who he is. I mean, I've already told you he has the potential to be much different than Pikachu. Here is my last try at getting people to like him, or just hate him a little less: Pichu is a baby Pokémon.
MUPTEAVH: And we care because?
Me: Because believe it or not Pichu represents more than just electric types. He represents the babies in the Pokémon world. Now, eighteen Pokémon isn't much if you compare it to every Pokémon we have, but we have more Baby Pokémon then we have Fossil Pokémon, so it should at least count for something.
MUPTEAVH: I'd rather have a Wynaut. At least it would be unique.
Me: (sighs) Have you not been listening to what I said last time? Anyway, let's move on. About Young Link...If I haven't convinced you already then there is no convincing you now. All I'm gonna say is for the last time Toon Link isn't Young Link.
MUPTEAVH: Toon Link is decloned Young Link.
Me: No. Toon Link is a newcomer to Brawl that was added instead of Young Link because "muh recency". But anyway, let's talk about Squirtle and Ivysaur because I didn't give them enough love last time.
MUPTEAVH: Squirtle and Ivysaur should be with the Pokémon Trainer or nothing.
Me: Why though? It's not like they are clones or anything. Sure Charizard is more popular than the two, but I feel like Squirtle and Ivysaur don't get the love they deserve. They shouldn't be disliked solely because they aren't the most popular characters in the world. I mean, Charizard must be lonely without those two. Right Charizard?
Charizard: Squirtle and Ivysaur? They were delicious.
Me: ............................................Well this is awkward.
MUPTEAVH: .........Anyway, are you gonna talk about the Ice Climbers, or have you excepted they are a lost cause?
Me: They're not. But before I continue i'm going to have to put a disclaimer so I don't get any rude messages from people who don't share the same views as I do. So here it is: I am not a developer of this game, and I cannot know for sure if they can work, however I can make a guess based on what is already in the game. What? It's there. Weather or not you can read it? That's your problem. Heh heh. Anyway, Let's compare the Ice Climbers to Rosalina & Luma. No they are not the same, but they are very similar. Here are the differences between the two:
1: Luma doesn't use Specials on it's own, unlike Nana (or Popo but let's just say Nana so there is no confusion).
2: Luma doesn't recover from it's tumbling animation no matter what you do.
3: Luma cannot grab or be grabbed.
4: Luma has a simplistic design
5: Luma is easier to desynch.
So I think it would make sense to do this: Nana could receive more knockback before tumbling than the rest of the cast including Popo, but would not be able to recover should she go into this state. Nana would not be able to use Belay without being synched to Popo, so you have to be more careful when desynching the two. Nana would not be able to grab or be grabbed, making Nana slightly safer, and balancing out the Ice Climber's 0-death combo. As for simplistic design, I'm going to bring up the Flying Man.
MUPTEAVH: What the heck does something from Earthbout have to do with the Ice Climbers?
Me: Wait five seconds and I'll tell you. During the development of the Magicant stage, the Flying Man had a (kinda ugly) 3D model. The 3Ds had trouble with this, so they gave it their sprite from Earthbound. If it worked for the Flying Man, I don't see why it wouldn't help the Ice Climbers.
MUPTEAVH: Why would they downgrade the Ice Climbers graphics?
Me: Because it works. Besides, it would only be for the 3Ds version, the Wii U version would keep their updated look. Sure they would loose some of their charm on the 3Ds, but it's better than not having them on the 3Ds at all. And while we are still talking about 3Ds limitations, I'd like to talk about in game switching. Or more specifically, the Pokémon Trainer. Here is a list of transformation Final Smashes in ssb4 (according to SmashWiki):
Bowser: Giga Bowser
Charizard: Mega Charizard X
Diddy Kong: Rocketbarrel Barage
Fox and Falco: Landmaster
Little Mac: Giga Mac
Lucario: Mega Lucario
Mr. Game & Watch: Octopus
PAC-Man: Super PAC-Man
Pikachu: Volt Tackle
Sonic: Super Sonic
Wario: Wario Man
Yoshi: Super Dragon
That's...a lot more than I thought. It makes sense though, however, I won't be talking about most of these. Just Giga Bowser, Wario Man, Mega Lucario, and Giga Mac, as they are the closest to in game switching. These guys are basically beefed up versions of the original character. After playing around with them however, I found that the game takes longer to put you back in the game if you die as any of them then if you are the original version. And as we saw in the first 3Ds tournament, the 3Ds had trouble handling these final smashes when Giga Bowser glitched out and stayed in it's transforming state. As the Pokémon Trainer takes this a step up and summons a completely new character, I'm not entirely sure if it will work. If it did though, I think it would work like this:
Selecting Pokémon Trainer would act like the random button, except that every time you die, it would pick a different Pokémon in the trainer's arsenal. Choosing one of the individual Pokémon would stop this from happening. This way, you wouldn't be a sitting duck while waiting for the Pokémon to change, and every Pokémon would have a down special, improving their game. This in theory would only create a small pause when someone dies instead of interrupting the match to switch. (It would also make sense because now your Pokémon don't share damage) Would they do this? Probably not. Could it work? Maybe.

And that's it! That is pretty much all I have to say on the subject of veterans. Will I have convince the world that Pichu and Young Link weren't so bad? Probably not. But I tried and had fun doing it. (I better have, it took me two hours to do this.) :3

 

[Arcadenik]

Meanwhile, is still waiting to get 4 of his costumes from Brawl back.... one of which being his GBC color pallette.

Once again, Sakurai cutting away all ties to Wario's real games.

I want Overalls Wario to be a separate non-clone character from Wario... like how Zero Suit Samus is a separate non-clone character from Samus. The reason I supported Wario for Melee/Brawl in the first place was because I liked Super Mario Land 2 and Wario Land 1-3 and I wanted Wario to have the moves from those games.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Because he totally doesn't kick your butt if you don't take control of him first.

Taking control of him is literally all I wanna do

But if you mean when he out-of-character-ly joins whoever slaps him last then, no, he's still stupidly easy to beat