Character Discussion Thread

[Cutie Gwen]

Ganon's always been a bit daunting in size. But that's namely a factor of Beast Ganon in TP. In his other 3D apperances of Ocarina of Time and NintendoLand, Link/TheMiiOfTime comes to about Ganon's waist. Given his bulky build and being in a similar position then to the conditions that say King Dedede and Bowser to Kirby and Mario respectively, he wouldn't lose that factor by being at the size of the other two kings of greed.

The one major difference between Ganon and Ridley when the size argument is brought up is bodyshape.

A bulky, baconlicious brute compared to.

A fairly scrawny dragon, in terms of general ability to "Scale down" without looking frail.

Does this mean Knuckles, Ike and Swampert went to Ridley's gym?
I've yet to find someone who prefers the official design than the concept art you showed. I personally think that's good when scaled down, but that's me

 

[aldelaro5]

I agree with your assessment. I also never just look at potential when it comes to Smash characters. I just used it as the main topic of my post as I seem to find that potential move sets are basically the only thing people care about around here, while I'm one of the few who actually likes the addition of clone characters.

Besides repping the pirate side of the franchise, which I agree isn't really that important, I feel Tetra is in the unique situation to represent more of Zelda's alter egos. That's where I feel her potential to represent the franchise really shines. To be able to showcase a completely different form of the titular character just like Sheik seems really cool to me, and I think it would get people more interested in seeing what the Zelda franchise is all about if they haven't already.

That being said, I actually don't think she's that likely, unless of course we do get a Zelda DLC character in which case I see her as one of three main candidates for the spot, but we don't know if we will. It's not going to stop me from supporting her though. Considering I see people around here constantly talking about possible characters that have little to no chance, I figured it would be nice to talk about my number one most wanted character for a change. Thanks for your feedback.

I learned quite quickly that people don't care ONLY about the potential. If they were, I wouldn't think he Paper Mario case would be annoying to manage because of the another mario argument. I actually learned that this is based on repping logic, not movesets and even weirder, the clone belief is actually not that popular.

So, trust me, they do think about other things than movesets.

However, I will agree on one thing, I often realise people take moveset....in a weird way. Because a character is an abstraction, that character is theorically endless possibility. The ONLY thing is that the moves would have to make sense and go in one direction being the playstyle, but the playstyle is an abstraction, an interpretation if you want meaning it's not fixed. So, if I read for example that "captain toad can't jump", I ask myself "why it matters SO MUCH?". I mean we saw a ton of example where the character didn't do a move like he does canon (the best example is c falcon). This is because the moves are abstracted, they might not even exist, but as long as they go in one driection that is meaningful, it's fine.

So, if he can't jump, why not just putting a LOW jump and a porr double one?

Or, why not having some animations that will make sense to have more height?

See? It's just design details. I agree that the subset dictates how far you can go in potential, but you realy have to have a very undevelopped subset to not be able to have a whole playstyle. Sometimes, it might just be due to the subset not being consistent, but I hoenstly think these cases are quite rare.

Which is why the potential in the end....doesn't matter the most and might be something that matters not much because you have a lot of different factors to consider before. If a character however satisfy pretty much everything, THEN moveset matters because if the character has a unique subset, the playstyle SHOULD be unique too. This is qhen you check how far you can go.

I honestly think the moveset is the last factor to check a character. I first check the subset, the importance of the subset, the possible delegate and if the character is a good one for his subset, how deep his repping would be, how maintained it is recently. Then I check quite the uniqueness and how would it contrivute to the diversity of the roster and by how much. THEN, I check the playstyle and movesets.

it's just logical. If I was considering movesets before for say shovel knight, it would be a bit weird, because he has lots of potential, but his addition isn't worth much int he first place considering several factors and the main one being third party indie....this requires quite huge standard if i check who managed to get in as third party.

It's funny how counterarguing about Paper Mario made me learn how people think about every characters

 

[A Distant Demon]

I know Impl's popularity would be non-exisdtant without HW. . .but i wonder what would happen if she wasnt in all of those fake leaks. I remember quite a few of them involving her (and a few with ghirahim. . .girahim. . . tongue guy)

of course now that i say it i cant remember a single one. . . I remember there being like 2 major ones during esrb times. . .

viewtiful new avi

 

[Burruni]

Does this mean Knuckles, Ike and Swampert went to Ridley's gym?
I've yet to find someone who prefers the official design than the concept art you showed. I personally think that's good when scaled down, but that's me

If anything, Knuckles and Swampert went to Ganon's Triforce Gym of Power. LOOK AT THOSE LITTLE PIGGY LEGS.
And yeah, "Classic" Ridley is more popular than Other M's "Roidley" which became the stage hazard. But when you scale THAT down... well. THAT NECK, TAIL AND THOSE WINGS.

Edit: Bulkier models are just better retained in posture without looking awkward than slimmer ones. Can we please move on before this becomes Ridley Talk 3.0

 

[A Distant Demon]

If anything, Knuckles and Swampert went to Ganon's Triforce Gym of Power. LOOK AT THOSE LITTLE PIGGY LEGS.
And yeah, "Classic" Ridley is more popular than Other M's "Roidley" which became the stage hazard. But when you scale THAT down... well. THAT NECK AND THOSE WINGS.

neck would obviously be different being a playable model and wings in z-axis.

wow this is my first pro-ridley posts in months isnt it. . .

 

[Scamper52596]

We've talked about her before, and while she seems perfect in everyday to me, I can't help but think of Toon Zelda as well. So it's hard to think of having one in over the other. Tetra is obviously the better choice because I don't think putting both is something that they're gonna want to do.
That said, Tetra is surpringly the last Zelda I would expect or even think about for that matter Pre SSB4 release. With Midna being very likey out of the question, I have thought about her more recently since I'm now currently playing WW. She can use some of the items (that WW Link does not use for unexplained reasons) to her advantage, for example the grappling hook, maybe strong more explosive bigger bombs, deku leaf and many others. I can't think of that stone she gives to Link other that a taunt. I see her as a very fast character overall and if they do pick her, it would be very fun to see her fight alongside Toon Link

Yeah, I know she's been talked about before, but hardly. Meanwhile I see at least one Bayonetta conversation happen in this thread once a day. In fact there's one happening right now...
I could see her getting in without Toon Zelda since the transformation gimmick is out of this game. Then again I could see Toon Zelda getting in just as easily... Like you said, Tetra has a lot to work with that could make her really unique. I could see her as more of an opportunistic character. She could use her specials to wait for an opportunity to rush down with some speed. Basically a mix of the zoning and rush down playstyle. There's quite a lot they could do with Tetra, and for that reason I feel that she's one of the best potential Zelda characters we could get for DLC, if we even get one that is.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Question: Who would like Goku as a joke characters? What's with all the weird lo-oh you think I'm talking about DBZ Goku

 

[A Distant Demon]

Question: Who would like Goku as a joke characters? What's with all the weird lo-oh you think I'm talking about DBZ Goku

lo-oh? im gonna guess you mean looks

no need to waste valuable dev time on a joke that isnt worth making in the first place.

 

[Burruni]

neck would obviously be different being a playable model and wings in z-axis.

wow this is my first pro-ridley posts in months isnt it. . .

My point was simply that as opposed to the lankiness than the character that's been forced into the "Wow2Big" joke, WizPig Ganon has a natural bulkiness that makes him far more comparable to the likes of Bowser and King Dedede when put to the scale of other fighters in the roster. A similar situation to King K. Rool that his body shape makes the matter of scaling far less of an issue and one that few people will dispute.

Ridley's design made more synonimous with the name by Zero Mission, Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion, Prime 1 & 3, while more popular, is also more of a victim to the slender frame problem than his Other M design which is present as a boss.

The closest character that I could relate to that "thinness" for Classic Ridley's design would be Waluigi who, as an assist trophy, is relative to the size of the tallest fighters with just the needs to be human without the addition of Ridley's tail, wings, and neck which are the biggest issues when one would discuss how he would be worked on as a fighter.

End of Discussion on that comparison. Please.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

lo-oh? im gonna guess you mean looks

no need to waste valuable dev time on a joke that isnt worth making in the first place.

We'd get a puzzle character tho

 

[A Distant Demon]

We'd get a puzzle character tho

and you should know I hate reps by now

 

[Cutie Gwen]

and you should know I hate reps by now

It's not even based on reps but 'something unique'

 

[Pakky]

Speaking of DK My dream list for characters from that series goes like this

Donkey Kong-Main
Diddy Kong- Side Kick
Dixie Kong - Other side kick
King K Rool- A badass villain with one of the best themes in the Nintendo universe.
Rambi- Mount and side kick

Has a moveset been made for Rambi yet, because I can seem him being a amalgamation of all the animal buddies.

I would say Lanky but he's not that important, I love him though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I once made a moveset for Rambi, but I am the absolute worst in finding movesets I made for characters. Side B was Super Charge from DKC2, neutral B is his regular horn attack from the SNES games and would send people upwards, and Down B should be the stomping attack he does in DKCR. Not sure how or if Rambi should recover realistically though. It would be a cool nod to Yoshi though, as both originated as animal helpers in their series.

I wish Rambi would stand a sort of chance as a playable character. Was he even in Tropical Freeze actually? But right now with Retro's approach on focussing more on DK himself as the sole protagonist am heavily doubting much more character development in the DKC series... Diddy being more fleshed out and return of the Kremlings are the only things am asking for at this point...

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Is Wonderful 101 really a fully fledged Nintendo IP. I still think there's a grey area... I don't think it's ever been confirmed to be Nintendo IP. It could be a Platinum IP

 

[Wintropy]

Is Wonderful 101 really a fully fledged Nintendo IP. I still think there's a grey area... I don't think it's ever been confirmed to be Nintendo IP. It could be a Platinum IP

It is absolutely, entirely, 100% bona fide owned by Nintendo. Wonder Red is just as much a Nintendo hero as Mario, Link, Shulk or Samus.

EDIT: Confirmation - there's an official Nintendo website for it, check it out over here, and the packaging states the IP belongs to Nintendo. Platinum created the characters and developed the game, but it's a Nintendo IP and has been since its release.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Is Wonderful 101 really a fully fledged Nintendo IP. I still think there's a grey area... I don't think it's ever been confirmed to be Nintendo IP. It could be a Platinum IP

Its 100 % nintendo.

No grey to be found

 

[ZeldaMaster]

It is absolutely, entirely, 100% bona fide owned by Nintendo. Wonder Red is just as much a Nintendo hero as Mario, Link, Shulk or Samus.

EDIT: Confirmation - there's an official Nintendo website for it, check it out over here, and the packaging states the IP belongs to Nintendo. Platinum created the characters and developed the game, but it's a Nintendo IP and has been since its release.

I see. For some reason I felt like it was never advertised as such, unlike Splatoon.

 

[Wintropy]

I see. For some reason I felt like it was never advertised as such, unlike Splatoon.

The game was hardly advertised in the first place, which is one of the main reasons why it tanked.

That and it belongs to a niche genre on a niche console and is developed by a niche studio that caters to niche interests.

 

[N3ON]

Splatoon is a new IP from EAD, which we don't see too often, that's why it's getting the "Nintendo is actually doing something new" treatment even though Nintendo's partners and subsidiaries make new IPs pretty regularly.

 

[Pakky]

I once made a moveset for Rambi, but I am the absolute worst in finding movesets I made for characters. Side B was Super Charge from DKC2, neutral B is his regular horn attack from the SNES games and would send people upwards, and Down B should be the stomping attack he does in DKCR. Not sure how or if Rambi should recover realistically though. It would be a cool nod to Yoshi though, as both originated as animal helpers in their series.

I wish Rambi would stand a sort of chance as a playable character. Was he even in Tropical Freeze actually? But right now with Retro's approach on focussing more on DK himself as the sole protagonist am heavily doubting much more character development in the DKC series... Diddy being more fleshed out and return of the Kremlings are the only things am asking for at this point...

He was is Tropical freeze, and keep faith, Rool coming to smash might change things.

Now on characters in general I count

Metwo
Lucas
Roy
Ryu
Wolf
Snake (possibly)

How many characters are we gonna get?

 

[Stratos]

What is the "Devil's Third"? The "Devil's Third" is a upcoming game for Wii U and the first game developed by Tomonobu Itagaki after leaving Temco in 2008 and forming his own game studio, Valhalla Game Studios, with other members of Team Ninja who left Tecmo in 2009.

He is the Ivan, the protagonist of the "Devil's Third". Except guns, also has a sword.

 

[Pakky]

What is the "Devil's Third"? The "Devil's Third" is a upcoming game for Wii U and the first game developed by Tomonobu Itagaki after leaving Temco in 2008 and forming his own game studio, Valhalla Game Studios, with other members of Team Ninja who left Tecmo in 2009.

He is the Ivan, the protagonist of the "Devil's Third". Except guns, also has a sword.

This game like Bayonetta was saved by the Nintendo.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

What is the "Devil's Third"? The "Devil's Third" is a upcoming game for Wii U and the first game developed by Tomonobu Itagaki after leaving Temco in 2008 and forming his own game studio, Valhalla Game Studios, with other members of Team Ninja who left Tecmo in 2009.

He is the Ivan, the protagonist of the "Devil's Third". Except guns, also has a sword.

Looks like Dwayne Johnson went crazy with the tattoos.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Don't really see Ivan as a possibility unless he gets a noticeable following in the ballot.

 

[N3ON]

I'm expecting Devil's Third to be the Geist of this gen. A so-so mature game put out by Nintendo that almost no one will care about and will soon be forgotten.

Bayonetta 2 was the Eternal Darkness of this gen. A critically acclaimed mature game put out by Nintendo that barely anyone cared about, but is and will be remembered fondly.

 

[Pakky]

I'm expecting Devil's Third to be the Geist of this gen. A so-so mature game put out by Nintendo that almost no one will care about and will soon be forgotten.

Bayonetta 2 was the Eternal Darkness of this gen. A critically acclaimed mature game put out by Nintendo that barely anyone cared about, but is and will be remembered fondly.

See now I'm sad, I'm gonna go drown my sorrows in playing Mewtwo in For Glory

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Since the Ryu Thread is without any movement after my last post yesterday (and I'll not bump with double post), here's just something I made;..

I hope someone can notice the reference (or I'm just a SF nerd. :\/ ).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I learned quite quickly that people don't care ONLY about the potential. If they were, I wouldn't think he Paper Mario case would be annoying to manage because of the another mario argument. I actually learned that this is based on repping logic, not movesets and even weirder, the clone belief is actually not that popular.

So, trust me, they do think about other things than movesets.

However, I will agree on one thing, I often realise people take moveset....in a weird way. Because a character is an abstraction, that character is theorically endless possibility. The ONLY thing is that the moves would have to make sense and go in one direction being the playstyle, but the playstyle is an abstraction, an interpretation if you want meaning it's not fixed. So, if I read for example that "captain toad can't jump", I ask myself "why it matters SO MUCH?". I mean we saw a ton of example where the character didn't do a move like he does canon (the best example is c falcon). This is because the moves are abstracted, they might not even exist, but as long as they go in one driection that is meaningful, it's fine.

So, if he can't jump, why not just putting a LOW jump and a porr double one?

Or, why not having some animations that will make sense to have more height?

See? It's just design details. I agree that the subset dictates how far you can go in potential, but you realy have to have a very undevelopped subset to not be able to have a whole playstyle. Sometimes, it might just be due to the subset not being consistent, but I hoenstly think these cases are quite rare.

Which is why the potential in the end....doesn't matter the most and might be something that matters not much because you have a lot of different factors to consider before. If a character however satisfy pretty much everything, THEN moveset matters because if the character has a unique subset, the playstyle SHOULD be unique too. This is qhen you check how far you can go.

I honestly think the moveset is the last factor to check a character. I first check the subset, the importance of the subset, the possible delegate and if the character is a good one for his subset, how deep his repping would be, how maintained it is recently. Then I check quite the uniqueness and how would it contrivute to the diversity of the roster and by how much. THEN, I check the playstyle and movesets.

it's just logical. If I was considering movesets before for say shovel knight, it would be a bit weird, because he has lots of potential, but his addition isn't worth much int he first place considering several factors and the main one being third party indie....this requires quite huge standard if i check who managed to get in as third party.

It's funny how counterarguing about Paper Mario made me learn how people think about every characters

I don't get it. I just pick characters because I like them.

 

[Deathlightning21]

I don't get it. I just pick characters because I like them.

And don't forget about the people who want a character because they are INTERESTING

yep, mhmm, still miffed about that word.

 

[aldelaro5]

I don't get it. I just pick characters because I like them.

I was talking from a speculation standpoint, not a want standpoint which is completely different.

For want, think about it, you want a character FOR WHAT HE WOULD REFLECT, not just for the sake of having him.

Which does come to the same conclusion, you would like him in smash, but my point is, everytime you would want someone, you want him for what he would reflect and it is what you truly like. If you recognise a subset because of its protagonist, that's actually because you like the subset reflected by that character.

It's logical consideration. it won't change anything in the conclusion for the want, you will still want a character for the same exact reason, but in speculations, this changes like everything.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Question: Who would like Goku as a joke characters? What's with all the weird lo-oh you think I'm talking about DBZ Goku

I would actually non ironically welcome DBZ Goku with open arms

But I'm a DBZ nut and the recent series resurgence has gotten me in the mood for more DBZ in my life so carry on

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And don't forget about the people who want a character because they are INTERESTING

yep, mhmm, still miffed about that word.

Don't see the need to attack me but ok.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I would actually non ironically welcome DBZ Goku with open arms

But I'm a DBZ nut and the recent series resurgence has gotten me in the mood for more DBZ in my life so carry on

Your little status thing that was for wario looks really strange with lapis.

I also freaking loved dbz and would prob main him. Of course i would prefer gohan (as long as its post freeza) or piccolo or dragonball goki but still. . .

 

[Deathlightning21]

Don't see the need to attack me but ok.

Not attacking you, just spring boarding off of your post :3

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not attacking you, just spring boarding off of your post :3

My turn to spring board! Weeeeeeeeee! (I'm so weird)

 

[BluePikmin11]

Snake was restricted from using some of his more "mature" weapons, as Bayonetta would be (like her gun heels - which is also a fairly important part of the character) but he still remained intact as a character, he didn't need to be changed.

I think Roger Smith has a good point with the guns here:

The weapons while an unfortunate and somewhat hindering element because of her gun heels being so iconic, is more fantasy element than other guns, I mean gun heels (you can't walk on guns last I checked) and guns that shoot like seven or eight bullets out in the shape of a heart? Kids are not dumb, they know guns can't really do that.

There's a lot of fantasy to Bayonetta's ''reality" if you can't see that, I don't know how you played the same series that I did. That's all I'm saying. ****, her creators have literally labelled her as a fantasy numerous times. She was designed by a woman as her ultimate power fantasy. You can't really argue that's she too realistically adult for Smash when that comes into play IMO.

There's a difference in Snake who while his plots get silly and strange, his weapons are VERY real, they act in real ways. Bayonetta's however do not. They fire in fantastical ways. She can walk on two guns. She's the least thing from ''too realistic" for Smash.

Most of her weapons are so fantastical, they are to the point where they don't feel like real guns at all.

If you think Bayonetta works, you don't know Bayonetta that well. The things that define her as a character are the things that would be censored, tweaked, or omitted. If we can't even get a Tharja trophy any semblance of what makes Bayonetta Bayonetta would have to be thrown out the window as well until we got some shallow E10 verion of the character, which most certainly would not be an accurate representation of her or her games.

I do understand the situation here, and it's something Sakurai can easily strike a balance with Bayonetta's main appeal while avoiding noticeable nudity if he wanted her in the game, there are multiple ways of getting through the situation. He would be extremely aware of the situation at hand.

Simply being an exaggerated character is not the only thing necessary to make for a good fit in Smash, and that's really the only quality of hers that meshes well with Smash, but only insofar as the fact that she is highly exaggerated, not her actual qualities that are exaggerated, because those most assuredly don't make for a seamless overlap.

It's not the only quality, with her large library of moves that come in the form of her hair, witch time, torture attacks, her personality, the way she does combat and her fantasy-like guns make her one of the most unique potential additions Sakurai could consider for DLC. I don't know how many times I have to reiterate this to convince you that she fits in the game.

 

[Senatiator]

What is the "Devil's Third"? The "Devil's Third" is a upcoming game for Wii U and the first game developed by Tomonobu Itagaki after leaving Temco in 2008 and forming his own game studio, Valhalla Game Studios, with other members of Team Ninja who left Tecmo in 2009.

He is the Ivan, the protagonist of the "Devil's Third". Except guns, also has a sword.

Valhalla Game Studios owns the Devil's Third IP making Ivan a third-party character. Like Rayman and Commander Video Ivan will only be a trophy if he's lucky.

 

[Ura]

He was is Tropical freeze, and keep faith, Rool coming to smash might change things.

Now on characters in general I count

Metwo
Lucas
Roy
Ryu
Wolf
Snake (possibly)

How many characters are we gonna get?

We have the same wishlist for DLC lol.

I believe the characters you listed will probably be per-determined DLC while characters that are going to be included from the Smash Ballot will be included at the end of the year or the start of next year. I'm guessing K. Rool and Isaac are going to be the frontrunners in the Ballot.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

He was is Tropical freeze, and keep faith, Rool coming to smash might change things.

Now on characters in general I count

Metwo
Lucas
Roy
Ryu
Wolf
Snake (possibly)

How many characters are we gonna get?

Well, the only information we have about that, if you didn't already know, is that they said making characters is a huge process so they won't be able to make that many. so its anyones guess to how many more characters really...

We have the same wishlist for DLC lol.

I believe the characters you listed will probably be per-determined DLC while characters that are going to be included from the Smash Ballot will be included at the end of the year or the start of next year. I'm guessing K. Rool and Isaac are going to be the frontrunners in the Ballot.

Judging from your avatar, you also want the Roy from FE:Awakening right?
Most people really want the one from Melee, and that seems more likely since haven't drastically changed, but who knows