Character Discussion Thread

[A Distant Demon]

There are people who have good reasons to vote for Shovel Knight and Bayonetta too, they fit the game very well and lots of potential for a moveset, moreso with Bayonetta.

Bayonetta fits? Oooook then. 3rd party tharja issues coming through.

why are you advocating for shovel knight so much anyway?

 

[PushDustIn]

@ PushDustIn said something about it i recall. I pity Pushm getting tagged everywhere

@SmashChu wrote a great piece on why unknown characters in a particular reason would economically be a bad choice for Smash DLC. Please read it, he makes a lot of great points.

Essentially, I don't think a character unknown in Japan (Like Shovel Knight is) nor a character that doesn't have actually popularity outside of Smash forums can make it as DLC. I almost think Paper Mario may have a higher chance than King K. Rool just because of his general popularity (Though I think it's highly likely that King K. Rool will Rule the Battle). For 3rd party characters, I think they have to be really important. Indie games marketplace is not as big as a thing as it is in the West. Japanese Wii U eShop got games from 2012 in the latest direct.

 

[Kenith]

There are people who have good reasons to vote for Shovel Knight and Bayonetta too, they fit the game very well and lots of potential for a moveset, moreso with Bayonetta.

Bayonetta is the polar opposite of what I would define as "fitting the game very well".
Nothing against the character, though.

 

[N3ON]

Ok, I'm so confused if this is trustable.

There;s part that feels realistic...some really doesn't.

Why wolf is so low?

Because everyone expects him.

why bk is so high?

Because now people see him as possible and are swept up in the hype

why captain toad feels too low?

Because he's not overly popular?

why dixie is so low?

Because people are leaning towards K. Rool.

I mean, I personally am so unsure. I'm telling you that it's the first time I see Paper Mario at 7th....

I mean, do you trust this?

If you looked at the results as they were happening you'd know it's pretty legit. There was a google doc that showed the votes increasing incrementally, and with the exception of the previously botted characters, this was the general order of things.

That is the best thing I've heard all week. Thanks N3ON.

 

[MagnesD3]

If that top ten got in from that reddit poll somehow I would lose my mind.




Sadly Ridley is low on the poll thanks to Sakurai's comments on the matter. It makes me very sad.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Actually, wasn't Mike Jones scrapped Startropics never got released in Japan? FE and Lucas tho

Dammit I forgot about him. Take my beloved Crash out for Mike Jones

 

[N3ON]

I forget where that tidbit started but as far as we know Mike Jones was never actually planned for Smash.

 

[aldelaro5]

@SmashChu wrote a great piece on why unknown characters in a particular reason would economically be a bad choice for Smash DLC. Please read it, he makes a lot of great points.

Essentially, I don't think a character unknown in Japan (Like Shovel Knight is) nor a character that doesn't have actually popularity outside of Smash forums can make it as DLC. I almost think Paper Mario may have a higher chance than King K. Rool just because of his general popularity (Though I think it's highly likely that King K. Rool will Rule the Battle). For 3rd party characters, I think they have to be really important. Indie games marketplace is not as big as a thing as it is in the West. Japanese Wii U eShop got games from 2012 in the latest direct.

wow.....I know I'm biased, but I feel Paper Mario isn't even close to kkr in terms of chances....

I never expected I would see this....

Because everyone expects him.


Because now people see him as possible and are swept up in the hype


Because he's not overly popular?


Because people are leaning towards K. Rool.


If you looked at the results as they were happening you'd know it's pretty legit. There was a google doc that showed the votes increasing incrementally, and with the exception of the previously botted characters, this was the general order of this.

even bk, even with the hype, it;s the first time I saw him first, best case is top 5, but mostly top 10.

wolf though....kinda weird that is so ironic, but I guess it makes sense....(psychology is just weird at times).

I never looked at the result because what happened is I voted in the morning and saw the bot in the day....it just felt really untrusted, but even with it unboated....I'm jsut surprised honestly.

 

[Kenith]

If that top ten got in from that reddit poll somehow I would lose my mind.

The top ten would be:
1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Isaac
3. King K. Rool
4. Shovel Knight
5. Snake
6. Bayonetta
7. Paper Mario
8. Wolf
9. Inkling
10. Ice Climbers

With the exception of Bayonetta and Shovel Knight, this list is solid imo.

 

[N3ON]

even bk, even with the hype, it;s the first time I saw him first, best case is top 5, but mostly top 10.

Where are you looking? Since the tweet he's usually top 3, top 5 at least.

 

[aldelaro5]

Where are you looking? Since the tweet he's usually top 3, top 5 at least.

push poll.

I guess that explains it, but....yeah....

well....it actually might be trusted after all though.....

 

[MagnesD3]

The top ten would be:
1. Banjo-Kazooie
2. Isaac
3. King K. Rool
4. Shovel Knight
5. Snake
6. Bayonetta
7. Paper Mario
8. Wolf
9. Inkling
10. Ice Climbers

With the exception of Bayonetta and Shovel Knight, this list is solid imo.

I would love bayonetta (I know it would be super hard to tone down her sexual nature), Shovel knight is whatever to me since I havent played his game yet, Inkling I could care less since the game isnt even out but her moveset could be cool. Trade Shovel for Ridley and There really wouldnt need to be a smash 5.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think it would fit very well, even though it's as different of a character you would expect to see in Smash like Snake.
She'd arguably be the freshest newcomer we had in a long time since Snake.

 

[MagnesD3]

I think it would fit very well, even though it's as different of a character you would expect to see in Smash like Snake.
She'd arguably be the freshest newcomer we had in a long time since Snake.

Ive always saw Bayo as the Female Adult realistic looking Character to Snakes Male Adult realistic looking Character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Plus Bayonetta's soundtrack is incredibly amazing and fitting for Smash:

It's literal eargasm all around.

Moon River is the best soundtrack of them all.

 

[JaidynReiman]

http://nm.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32mcez/final_results_the_smash_bros_dlc_reddit_survey_is/

OH, that's the poll that got botted with Daisy votes. Wow, lol. Yeah, I remember that now. I gave up on it when I found out it was being botted, but I'm glad that he was able to find and remove the bot votes.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

There are people who have good reasons to vote for Shovel Knight and Bayonetta too, they fit the game very well and lots of potential for a moveset, moreso with Bayonetta.

C'mon Blue, be realistic instead of giving me another headache. I may hate Bayonetta, but let's be realistic here: Bayonetta's moves are mostly from her hair and her stripping dance. Watering her down isn't good idea man

I swear, I wonder if BluePikmin and WhiteEagle are related because of their similarity in Bayonetta...

 

[MagnesD3]

Also Sora > Shovel Knight.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Then tone it down and don't show the nudity then, it's that simple. It would still be Bayonetta, she still has a lot of moves in her disposal that would very much make up for her lack of erotic behavior anyway.
@Smash Daddy made a great analysis on Bayonetta's potential, it's pretty infinite if you ask me:

Bayonetta: S+

Where to begin? Lets start from the basics: Bayonetta has dozens of weapons she can use to have a range of attacks from all distances and on every input. The ones I can immediately remember from the first game are a sword, a giant pair of claws and a whip. These all have more versatility than you'd immediately think, they have dozens of attacks on their own. But that's only the start. Bayonetta has a variety of guns to attach to her heels, to start she uses a pair of pistols, but can find or buy shotguns, revolvers and other firearms to take their place. In short, she has a tremendous amount of projectiles on top of melee.

That is not even touching upon all the other things she can do. She has hand-to-hand combat that can easily be its own moveset all on its own, except it also summons monsters to synchronize her attacks with giant boots, punches and stomps that come through humongous portals. She can summon torture machines at will to execute monsters on the fly if they're weak enough. For the finale on a boss, she has an assortment of huge demons to summon that are obvious final smash fodder, but surely could be used to inspire a move or two.

If you want a simple basis for a moveset, it's not as if it's intimidating to create one. She has an obvious standard projectile in her pistols she carries around normally, that can be rapid-fired at all times in the first game to whittle down a foe's health. Bayonetta transforms into various animals, including a bird and panther for an obvious recovery. Multiple mid-air jumps can be purchased in the game as well as defensive measures or items that have a variety of unique effects. Bayonetta can even walk on walls and ride missiles to name a couple of many, many inane abilities of the character.

I almost forgot to add how she can stop time. I'm sure I missed a huge amount in this long summary that are obvious to a big Bayonetta fan.

Keep in mind this is all based purely on the first game and Sakurai could easily implement aspects of Bayonetta 2., which may be just as full of content.

My opinion is that she needs to go right to the top of the list.

 

[N3ON]

I personally see Bayonetta fitting into the same clause Ridley seems to: it could work, but it'd compromise the character too much.

 

[BKupa666]

I wonder if people would say the same thing about Snake had he never made it in before being suggested?

Heck, some people still say "he doesn't fit" as a reason he shouldn't be included...after he already was.

 

[N3ON]

I would if his clothes came off every time he attacked someone.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I wonder if people would say the same thing about Snake had he never made it in before being suggested?

Heck, some people still say "he doesn't fit" as a reason he shouldn't be included...after he already was.

I always laugh at that remark. "He doesn't fit!" Sorry, he's already been in the game. That's an opinion anyway so it doesn't really make a difference what us peons think.

Then, people act on the assumption that there was a bad exchange that led to Snake getting cut. Like, Nintendo got rid of Snake because Konami doesn't support the Wii U. It's a case where "There's no evidence to suggest I'm wrong, therefore I must be right." Obviously, something happened somewhere because he's been cut from the game. But it doesn't automatically mean, "Ermhagherd, theys pissed!"

Not to mention, if people understood how business works, if you were in charge of a company and had the chance to put your flagship series on a console that wasn't selling well, and your product may or may not sell well on it, you wouldn't spend the money on the game for that console. It's not Konami's fault the Wii U had an awful launch and wouldn't sell MGS well necessarily.

Then again, if somebody is biased towards another character, they will always find a way to mention why that character sucks. It happens here all the time. It happens everywhere.

EDIT: Also, had Snake never been in Brawl, I can almost guarantee there'd be next to no support for him. We want Snake BECAUSE he's already been in.

 

[BluePikmin11]

At least she wouldn't look awkward to look at as Ridley, who suits the boss role more than a character.

 

[MagnesD3]

I personally see Bayonetta fitting into the same clause Ridley seems to: it could work, but it'd compromise the character too much.

In Sakurai's Opinion at least.



On another note alot of the comments on the Reddit thread with the poll are super cringe-worthy, alot of them dont understand why the top10 is the way it is. Makes me think alot of them are super young or something.

 

[Dan]

It's pretty strange. The voting must be all over the place. So the top characters at this point seem to be Banjo + Kazooie, K. Rool, Isaac and Ridley? It seems like Ridley has fallen off the face of the Earth, but I still wouldn't sleep on him. He could very well win the vote, but also, Sakurai could very well just bypass him and just go to #2. That's the one thing that irks me; how will we know they stayed true to the poll? We won't. Obviously if it's Goku are some character who can't be in there due to rights issues, then they can skip them, but any character who has no trademark issue should go in, regardless of how crazy or not.

Banjo and Kazooie seem to be coming out of virtually no where with a lot of votes thanks to Phil Spencer, but do the younger voters (probably half of the voters) even know who they are? Heck, what characters are even popular with the younger players? Cat Mario? Honestly, I could just see someone like K. Rool winning and Sakurai just says f that and he puts Banjo-Kazooie in. I wouldn't mind that.

Shoot, and this character probably won't be released till what, next Christmas? For some reason they need seven months to tally votes before they even start developing said character.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I really like Bayonetta, and in my case, probably Bayo2 was some of the reasons of buying a Wii U so early.. but I can't even imagine her among the Smash characters, at all... even if the game was already rated T, she would still be awkward...

you know.. if you remove the nudity attacks, she would still need some of her insinuations in the dialogues, expressions and poses... without that, she wouldn't be Bayonetta. ...my verdict is, she's like a Mortal Kombat character,... she wasn't created to be flexible enough to cross with other tones of themes aside of her own universe.

 

[Dan]

Also, what happens if you vote more than once? Do they only count your first vote?

 

[Starphoenix]

http://nm.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32mcez/final_results_the_smash_bros_dlc_reddit_survey_is/

That was close to my actual reaction reading these results.

 

[Starcutter]

I should have voted for the Stork....

you know, the one from Yoshi's Island.

Why not, right?

 

[N3ON]

In Sakurai's Opinion at least.

Well his is the opinion that matters.

On another note alot of the comments on the Reddit thread with the poll are super cringe-worthy, alot of them dont understand why the top10 is the way it is. Makes me think alot of them are super young or something.

I dunno. I feel young voters is the main reasons characters like Shovel Knight have the popularity they do in the first place.

It's pretty strange. The voting must be all over the place. So the top characters at this point seem to be Banjo + Kazooie, K. Rool, Isaac and Ridley? It seems like Ridley has fallen off the face of the Earth, but I still wouldn't sleep on him. He could very well win the vote, but also, Sakurai could very well just bypass him and just go to #2. That's the one thing that irks me; how will we know they stayed true to the poll? We won't. Obviously if it's Goku are some character who can't be in there due to rights issues, then they can skip them, but any character who has no trademark issue should go in, regardless of how crazy or not.

Banjo and Kazooie seem to be coming out of virtually no where with a lot of votes thanks to Phil Spencer, but do the younger voters (probably half of the voters) even know who they are? Heck, what characters are even popular with the younger players? Cat Mario? Honestly, I could just see someone like K. Rool winning and Sakurai just says f that and he puts Banjo-Kazooie in. I wouldn't mind that.

Shoot, and this character probably won't be released till what, next Christmas? For some reason they need seven months to tally votes before they even start developing said character.

Ridley isn't a top character...

He's still probably fairly requested, but he's not in the top 5. I don't even know if he's in the top 10 at this point. Probably not.

And this isn't a case of the top choices automatically get included, Nintendo just wants to see where the popularity is leaning and will probably choose a handful of characters from among the most popular, not necessarily the "winners" in terms of quantity.

As for younger voters, most of them probably haven't played any Banjo games, but they see the hype for them and feel like jumping on board. I imagine that's what a lot of the younger audience does.

That was close to my actual reaction reading these results.

To be honest I didn't even look what came after Shovel Knight the first time I looked at the results. xD

That said, I don't want Bayonetta, but the rest of the 10 I'd be perfectly happy with. At least Daisy didn't make it (sorry Daisy fans). I can understand why some might blech at the results though.

 

[Xenorange]

Anyone gotten the mewtwo code yet?

 

[MagnesD3]

Well his is the opinion that matters.


I dunno. I feel young voters is the main reasons characters like Shovel Knight have the popularity they do in the first place.


Ridley isn't a top character...

He's still probably fairly requested, but he's not in the top 5. I don't even know if he's in the top 10 at this point. Probably not.

And this isn't a case of the top choices automatically get included, Nintendo just wants to see where the popularity is leaning and will probably choose a handful of characters from among the most popular, not necessarily the "winners" in terms of quantity.

As for younger voters, most of them probably haven't played any Banjo games, but they see the hype for them and feel like jumping on board. I imagine that's what a lot of the younger audience does.

To be honest I didn't even look what came after Shovel Knight the first time I looked at the results. xD

That said, I don't want Bayonetta, but the rest of the 10 I'd be perfectly happy with. At least Daisy didn't make it (sorry Daisy fans). I can understand why some might blech at the results though.

Sakurai really hurt Ridley's support, a ton of his fans think its useless to vote for him now that Sakurai's statement on the matter is out there. I have no doubt in my mind he would be top 5-10 on that poll if sakurai hadnt come out and said what he said. I just hope the fanbase magically picks their-selves up again to keep the dream alive for smash 5.

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai really hurt Ridley's support, a ton of his fans think its useless to vote for him now that Sakurai's statement on the matter is out there. I have no doubt in my mind he would be top 5-10 on that poll if sakurai hadnt come out and said what he said. I just hope the fanbase magically picks their-selves up again to keep the dream alive for smash 5.

I do think it is useless to vote for him now... Sakurai has already acknowledged the popularity, more popularity isn't going to change things.

If Ridley happens at some point in the future, it's either because Sakurai had a change of heart (which I find unlikely) or someone else took the helm. Or they make Ridley smaller in a Metroid game. It's not going to be because people keep asking for him. Villager happened when almost no one was still asking for him.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I do think it is useless to vote for him now... Sakurai has already acknowledged the popularity, more popularity isn't going to change things.

If Ridley happens at some point in the future, it's either because Sakurai had a change of heart (which I find unlikely) or someone else took the helm. Or they make Ridley smaller in a Metroid game. It's not going to be because people keep asking for him. Villager happened when almost no one was still asking for him.

I'd argue its not useless. If Ridley gets a lot of votes at least Nintendo might consider altering his role in Metroid games to actually make him more important. This poll isn't just for Smash Bros. but other upcoming games as well.

 

[N3ON]

I'd argue its not useless. If Ridley gets a lot of votes at least Nintendo might consider altering his role in Metroid games to actually make him more important. This poll isn't just for Smash Bros. but other upcoming games as well.

I think Nintendo is already just as aware of the Ridley demand as Sakurai is. The Treehouse guys even joke about it.

Plus there's a reason Ridley keeps showing up in Metroid games and Nintendo Land and stuff while Kraid doesn't. Nintendo knows he's popular.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So...

How relevant is "relevant?"

I like to think that a series or character with a notable game post Brawl is good enough.

So Golden Sun is fine.

K.Rool maybe not.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So...

How relevant is "relevant?"

I like to think that a series or character with a notable game post Brawl is good enough.

So Golden Sun is fine.

K.Rool maybe not.

I still think the argument people keep trying to make should be "recent," not "relevant." K. Rool is fully relevant with him appearing in nearly every DK game as the main antagonist and even playable in several spinoffs, and being planned to be playable in additional entries (Diddy Kong Pilot). Plus, if you consider how things play out, K. Rool's last appearance was 2008; since then we have had NO spinoffs, so K. Rool's only been absent for two games.


Not to mention the recent re-releases of nearly every game where K. Rool was the main antagonist.

 

[MagnesD3]

I do think it is useless to vote for him now... Sakurai has already acknowledged the popularity, more popularity isn't going to change things.

If Ridley happens at some point in the future, it's either because Sakurai had a change of heart (which I find unlikely) or someone else took the helm. Or they make Ridley smaller in a Metroid game. It's not going to be because people keep asking for him. Villager happened when almost no one was still asking for him.

I think if Ridley's support fade's he may lose his chance at being in smash 5, thats why its important to maintain support.

 

[Deleted member]

That was close to my actual reaction reading these results.

Only two of them are really bad choices; Bayonetta and Shovel Knight (three if you are against Banjo-Kazooie due to being owned by Microsoft). The rest are either the best options for characters or at least decent.