Character Discussion Thread

[Wintropy]

Lucas has oodles of noodles and oodles of noodles again of potential, dripping with wonderful sauce and excitement sprinkles.

There's so much you could do with him. Even as a semi-clone of Ness, I never felt like I was playing a variation of an existing character. I always thought he felt distinct and fresh in his own way.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Lucas has oodles of noodles and oodles of noodles again of potential, dripping with wonderful sauce and excitement sprinkles.

There's so much you could do with him. Even as a semi-clone of Ness, I never felt like I was playing a variation of an existing character. I always thought he felt distinct and fresh in his own way.

Now you made me hungry with all that food talk, better go to a smash bros restaurant, know any?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Apex 2015 has been great to watch Smash 4! So much skill, and so many of the characters have shown up. From what I've watched, only Peach, Wario, Charizard, G&W, Wii Fit Trainer, Toon Link, Zelda, Robin, Ike, Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight, Palutena and Mii's haven't showed up. (EDIT: JUST GOT A LUCARIO) I love how the game is already looking competitively. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

HOWEVER, I think it can be spiced up a little more with Inklings and Snake as DLC ...not to mention Lucas or Wolf. Mewtwo is a good start.

 

[Arcadenik]

Are there videos of Apex 2015?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Are there videos of Apex 2015?

Not videos, but the live stream from Twitch is available. Here's the : http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky

 

[JamesDNaux]

HOWEVER, I think it can be spiced up a little more with Inklings and Snake as DLC ...not to mention Lucas or Wolf. Mewtwo is a good start.

RIP Climbers of Ice.


I agree with the Inklings, and you know how I feel about Snake, but what about a limbless wonder or a crowned crocodile?

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

The Sm4sh pools at Apex are pretty awesome so far. There has definitely been some variety a little lately when it comes to characters.

 

[Cool Typhlosion]

RIP Climbers of Ice.


I agree with the Inklings, and you know how I feel about Snake, but what about a limbless wonder or a crowned crocodile?

nah we need a Cloaked koopa and a evil space jester

 

[Arcadenik]

I am always rooting for the lower-tiered characters to win against higher-tiered characters as I am watching Apex 2015. I love rooting for the underdogs.

It is ridiculous how Rosalina beat Greninja twice... and she is still under 50%.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

HOWEVER, I think it can be spiced up a little more with Inklings and Snake as DLC ...not to mention Lucas or Wolf. Mewtwo is a good start.

Im guessing lucas and wolf are as well im guessing.

If not awsome.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Lucas has oodles of noodles and oodles of noodles again of potential, dripping with wonderful sauce and excitement sprinkles.

There's so much you could do with him. Even as a semi-clone of Ness, I never felt like I was playing a variation of an existing character. I always thought he felt distinct and fresh in his own way.

I honestly didn't think there were any people that felt that way about lucas anymore. people are saying that he'd be tedious to add back because ness has his specials (PK Freeze, PK Fire Burst, Lasting PK Thunder, and Forward PSI Magnet). Even so, Lucas was his own character in Brawl and was so easy to differentiate between the two. If they added Lucas back with the same move set in brawl it would still be fine to me. I know they're capable of changing his specials a little if at all

 

[pupNapoleon]

C'monnnnnn character announcement or DLC announcement at Apex.

*expecting news of that City Folk game*

 

[Cool Typhlosion]

I honestly didn't think there were any people that felt that way about lucas anymore. people are saying that he'd be tedious to add back because ness has his specials (PK Freeze, PK Fire Burst, Lasting PK Thunder, and Forward PSI Magnet). Even so, Lucas was his own character in Brawl and was so easy to differentiate between the two. If they added Lucas back with the same move set in brawl it would still be fine to me. I know they're capable of changing his specials a little if at all

and plus Pk starstorm between brawl and this game are awlfly different Lucas could have the brawl one

 

[ZeldaFan01]

and plus Pk starstorm between brawl and this game are awlfly different Lucas could have the brawl one

Oh yeeeahh good point. Even better!

 

[pupNapoleon]

and plus Pk starstorm between brawl and this game are awlfly different Lucas could have the brawl one

And Dark Pit could have had Pit's Brawl move set.

...I really hope that if Pittoo stays in until next game, they give him this. As well as a new wardrobe, and hopefully, a name that doesn't start with 'Dark.'
Same reason I hope ZSS gets a real name out of the suit.

Question; is Samus the actual characters name, or just a pseudoname, like a superhero? When answering this, please include zero spoilers. I am just starting my first Metroid games, Prime series, as well as Super Metroid.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

And Dark Pit could have had Pit's Brawl move set.

...I really hope that if Pittoo stays in until next game, they give him this. As well as a new wardrobe, and hopefully, a name that doesn't start with 'Dark.'
Same reason I hope ZSS gets a real name out of the suit.

Question; is Samus the actual characters name, or just a pseudoname, like a superhero? When answering this, please include zero spoilers. I am just starting my first Metroid games, Prime series, as well as Super Metroid.

Samus Aran is her real name.

 

[Wintropy]

And Dark Pit could have had Pit's Brawl move set.

...I really hope that if Pittoo stays in until next game, they give him this. As well as a new wardrobe, and hopefully, a name that doesn't start with 'Dark.'
Same reason I hope ZSS gets a real name out of the suit.

Question; is Samus the actual characters name, or just a pseudoname, like a superhero? When answering this, please include zero spoilers. I am just starting my first Metroid games, Prime series, as well as Super Metroid.

I love the thought of Dark Pit having his own name and costume. He'd be an even greater character in his own right rather than just Pit's shadow. :3

Samus Aran is her actual birth name.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Samus Aran is her real name.

I love the thought of Dark Pit having his own name and costume. He'd be an even greater character in his own right rather than just Pit's shadow. :3

Samus Aran is her actual birth name.

Then I hope in the next Metroid, she is refered to as 'Ms Aran,' or something, out of suit. I really, REALLY hate adjective-qualifying nicknames.

I think Toon Link is out of Luck. Somehow Dr Mario doesnt bother me, since Doctor is a legitimate prefix.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Then I hope in the next Metroid, she is refered to as 'Ms Aran,' or something, out of suit. I really, REALLY hate adjective-qualifying nicknames.

I think Toon Link is out of Luck. Somehow Dr Mario doesnt bother me, since Doctor is a legitimate prefix.

What about Zero suit Wario?

 

[Wintropy]

Then I hope in the next Metroid, she is refered to as 'Ms Aran,' or something, out of suit. I really, REALLY hate adjective-qualifying nicknames.

I think Toon Link is out of Luck. Somehow Dr Mario doesnt bother me, since Doctor is a legitimate prefix.

Ms Aran would sound like affirmative action, though, just to reinforce the notion that she's a woman.

Samus's gender is totally incidental to her character, Other M notwithstanding. Ms Aran wouldn't work as a prefix, it'd just sound condescending and out of place. She's saving the galaxy from marauding Space Pirates and eldritch abominations with greasy tendrils and teeth the size of skyscrapers, not working 9-to-5 in an office block.

I think Zero Suit Samus works fine, since that's what it is: Samus in her Zero Suit. Alternatively, she could be called Armourless Samus, Chozo Girl, The Galaxy's Greatest Bounty Hunter or Ridley's Least Favourite Blonde. There's not a lot else that she could be called. Unless you want her to be Samus and regular Samus to be Power Suit Samus.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Ms Aran would sound like affirmative action, though, just to reinforce the notion that she's a woman.

Samus's gender is totally incidental to her character, Other M notwithstanding. Ms Aran wouldn't work as a prefix, it'd just sound condescending and out of place. She's saving the galaxy from marauding Space Pirates and eldritch abominations with greasy tendrils and teeth the size of skyscrapers, not working 9-to-5 in an office block.

I think Zero Suit Samus works fine, since that's what it is: Samus in her Zero Suit. Alternatively, she could be called Armourless Samus, Chozo Girl, The Galaxy's Greatest Bounty Hunter or Ridley's Least Favourite Blonde. There's not a lot else that she could be called. Unless you want her to be Samus and regular Samus to be Power Suit Samus.

I don't really care what it is that is a new name, but it certainl makes her seem less like her own character to need a qualifier in her name, as if she is the negative space around Samus, a character who can only be defined off of the knowledge of Regular Samus. Same with Dark Pit and Toon Link.

 

[Deleted member]

No seriously. Having issue with "*adjective* *character*" names is one of the most trivial things you could be nitpicky about.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Ok forget about apex for smash 4 mewtwo gameplay

Screw attack confirmed the special announcement is not nintendo related

 

[Spazzy_D]

And Dark Pit could have had Pit's Brawl move set.

...I really hope that if Pittoo stays in until next game, they give him this. As well as a new wardrobe, and hopefully, a name that doesn't start with 'Dark.'
Same reason I hope ZSS gets a real name out of the suit.

Question; is Samus the actual characters name, or just a pseudoname, like a superhero? When answering this, please include zero spoilers. I am just starting my first Metroid games, Prime series, as well as Super Metroid.

Eh, Pit's Brawl moveset kind of sucked. Pit's old down special was also the Mirror Shield, which is now part of his final smash and not something Dark Pit would have access to. I guess the old side special would work, but Dark Pit already uses a different arm for that move than Pit does.

I think it would make more sense to give Dark Pit his staff as a regular weapon. It's not some sort of super weapon in the game, and giving it to him would give him a unique neutral move and it would change most of his A moves as well. After that, just give Dark Pit a different set of Orbitars (or maybe even some defensive Arms) as his down special and you are good to go.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever Play KI: Uprising? There are so any weapon types in that game that Dark Pit could and probably should use. That's really the worst part of him being a clone.... he really didn't have to be. I would love to see him get a visual over haul in the next Kid Icarus game, whenever that might be. A change of clothes and a hair cut would do him good.

 

[Wintropy]

Eh, Pit's Brawl moveset kind of sucked. Pit's old down special was also the Mirror Shield, which is now part of his final smash and not something Dark Pit would have access to. I guess the old side special would work, but Dark Pit already uses a different arm for that move than Pit does.

I think it would make more sense to give Dark Pit his staff as a regular weapon. It's not some sort of super weapon in the game, and giving it to him would give him a unique neutral move and it would change most of his A moves as well. After that, just give Dark Pit a different set of Orbitars (or maybe even some defensive Arms) as his down special and you are good to go.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever Play KI: Uprising? There are so any weapon types in that game that Dark Pit could and probably should use. That's really the worst part of him being a clone.... he really didn't have to be. I would love to see him get a visual over haul in the next Kid Icarus game, whenever that might be. A change of clothes and a hair cut would do him good.

If Dark Pit were to get his own name and costume and wielded even a fraction of the other weapon types in Uprising, he'd be an amazing character.

I have no issues with him as a clone, but I feel like, even as a character, he has so much potential to be unique and memorable.

 

[Cool Typhlosion]

Eh, Pit's Brawl moveset kind of sucked. Pit's old down special was also the Mirror Shield, which is now part of his final smash and not something Dark Pit would have access to. I guess the old side special would work, but Dark Pit already uses a different arm for that move than Pit does.

Can we just give them as one of there custom specials or add some new Classic pit with them Or something as we have 4 moves sitting there collecting dust

 

[pupNapoleon]

Eh, Pit's Brawl moveset kind of sucked. Pit's old down special was also the Mirror Shield, which is now part of his final smash and not something Dark Pit would have access to. I guess the old side special would work, but Dark Pit already uses a different arm for that move than Pit does.

I think it would make more sense to give Dark Pit his staff as a regular weapon. It's not some sort of super weapon in the game, and giving it to him would give him a unique neutral move and it would change most of his A moves as well. After that, just give Dark Pit a different set of Orbitars (or maybe even some defensive Arms) as his down special and you are good to go.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever Play KI: Uprising? There are so any weapon types in that game that Dark Pit could and probably should use. That's really the worst part of him being a clone.... he really didn't have to be. I would love to see him get a visual over haul in the next Kid Icarus game, whenever that might be. A change of clothes and a hair cut would do him good.

Yes, I did play Uprising; it is an amazing game. I don't think, however, it needs three characters solely trying to represent it- I certainly don't think that just adding more weapons really says anything about the content or the playable essence of the game, it is just adding things that are visually in the game.

 

[Arcadenik]

I like Uprising but the controls were not user-friendly to left-handed players.

 

[Cool Typhlosion]

I like Uprising but the controls were not user-friendly to left-handed players.

Great I really want it but The controls are Garbage great just great

 

[Wintropy]

Yes, I did play Uprising; it is an amazing game. I don't think, however, it needs three characters solely trying to represent it- I certainly don't think that just adding more weapons really says anything about the content or the playable essence of the game, it is just adding things that are visually in the game.

Well the impressive variety of weapons is one of its biggest features. It's a shooter at heart, and the best part of any shooter is the arsenal of toys it lets you play with. Just by changing the stats on a weapon, you can play a whole new style of game. So yeah, it's a pretty big part of the game.

There's also the fact that Palutena represents Powers, so Pit / Dark Pit could easily demonstrate the weapons side of things. I'd argue Dark Pit, since Pit already has a pretty substantial moveset.

Then again, this is why God invented customs..~

:3

Great I really want it but The controls are Garbage great just great

They're really not. You'll have it figured out by the end of the second chapter, easy.

 

[Arcadenik]

Great I really want it but The controls are Garbage great just great

I never said the controls were garbage... just that the controls were not user-friendly for left-handed players. I'm a lefty and I struggled to finish all 25 chapters. See, you have to use the touch screen to aim in the game... of course I use my dominant hand (the left hand) to hold the stylus... but to move Pit around, you have to use the circle pad which is on the left side of the 3DS. The custom controls lets me move Pit around with the ABXY buttons... but it feels so unnatural to move around in cardinal directions in a 3D game, especially in a fast-paced game with lots of shooting going on.

Even if I used my right hand to hold the stylus and used the circle pad to move Pit, it is very uncomfortable for me to hold the stylus with my right hand. So what choice do I have? Perfect aiming but sluggish movements? Or fluid movements but shoddy aiming?

 

[Frostwraith]

Dark Pit and Zero Suit Samus are perfectly fine names. Same for Toon Link or Dr. Mario.

Dark Pit -> Pit's dark counterpart
Zero Suit Samus -> Samus in her Zero Suit
Toon Link -> Cartoon version of Link
Dr. Mario -> Mario as a doctor

The adjectives/descriptors have a purpose. A crystal clear one at that.

Also, I disagree with changing Dark Pit's design, unless he was given a new one in a new Kid Icarus game. His current design symbolizes what sort of character he is, a mirror image of Pit born out of his inner thoughts with an opposite personality. White contrasting with black and all that.

Then again, I'm not judgemental to the point of "bwaaah he looks like a recolor, he needs to be DIFFERENT!!". He's different enough in personality and the 8 color swaps for each Pit do a good job in distinguishing both characters.

Let's change Lucina's design because right now, she's just female Marth, right?

(Am I really arguing about this?)

 

[Spazzy_D]

Yes, I did play Uprising; it is an amazing game. I don't think, however, it needs three characters solely trying to represent it- I certainly don't think that just adding more weapons really says anything about the content or the playable essence of the game, it is just adding things that are visually in the game.

Oh, I agree that it doesn't need 3 characters, and I would much rather have Medusa or Hades in than Dark Pit. I just think that if Dark Pit sticks around he might as well represent other facets of the game.

 

[Wintropy]

Dark Pit and Zero Suit Samus are perfectly fine names. Same for Toon Link or Dr. Mario.

Dark Pit -> Pit's dark counterpart
Zero Suit Samus -> Samus in her Zero Suit
Toon Link -> Cartoon version of Link
Dr. Mario -> Mario as a doctor

The adjectives/descriptors have a purpose. A crystal clear one at that.

Also, I disagree with changing Dark Pit's design, unless he was given a new one in a new Kid Icarus game. His current design symbolizes what sort of character he is, a mirror image of Pit born out of his inner thoughts with an opposite personality. White contrasting with black and all that.

Then again, I'm not judgemental to the point of "bwaaah he looks like a recolor, he needs to be DIFFERENT!!". He's different enough in personality and the 8 color swaps for each Pit do a good job in distinguishing both characters.

Let's change Lucina's design because right now, she's just female Marth, right?

(Am I really arguing about this?)

Yeah, sorry, I should have been clearer there. I mean I'd love to see Dark Pit get a redesign in a potential future Kid Icarus game.

And most importantly, keep his personality and motif intact, he's got great dialogue and his theme is kick-ass to the extreme.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I really don't think KI needs more than two reps. I wouldn't mind a decloned Dark Pit in Smash 5 (with Power of Flight remaining the up special because it's a huge concept in the Icarus games), but that just means that other series have just got to step their game up.

Fire Emblem is another example of a series I feel is overrepped. Due to most games being only in Japan, FE just isn't very popular. It does not deserve four reps, which is twice as many as Donkey Kong, a much more popular series. But since this paragraph is the only reason Robin has for being cut, this just means, again, other series have just got to step their game up.

When I say other series, I mean Donkey Kong and Kirby. Donkey Kong is Nintendo's fifth most popular series; Kirby is the sixth. However, since the only characters Wii has are obscure, that ups the authority that the two series have. 4 would be a good number for both series.

For Donkey Kong, newcomers would be King K. Rool, and the unlockable Dixie Kong. Restating an earlier post, Rool adds to Nintendo's kingly villains theme, like Bowser, Ganon, and Dedede. Dixie Kong was planned for Brawl, so that makes her the next choice. For Kirby, Bandana Waddle Dee is the ideal newcomer. He completes the Kirby quartet, and is one of the only allies that Kirby has.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

I really don't think KI needs more than two reps. I wouldn't mind a decloned Dark Pit in Smash 5 (with Power of Flight remaining the up special because it's a huge concept in the Icarus games), but that just means that other series have just got to step their game up.

Fire Emblem is another example of a series I feel is overrepped. Due to most games being only in Japan, FE just isn't very popular. It does not deserve four reps, which is twice as many as Donkey Kong, a much more popular series. But since this paragraph is the only reason Robin has for being cut, this just means, again, other series have just got to step their game up.

Yeah Kid Icarus does not deserve more reps than Starfox. . Now
wouldn't be as bad since they have the same number of reps,but still Kid Icarus is too small a series to warrant 3 reps.
( ) = not confirmed yet.







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[Arcadenik]

Deservingness is subjective.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I really don't think KI needs more than two reps. I wouldn't mind a decloned Dark Pit in Smash 5 (with Power of Flight remaining the up special because it's a huge concept in the Icarus games), but that just means that other series have just got to step their game up.

Fire Emblem is another example of a series I feel is overrepped. Due to most games being only in Japan, FE just isn't very popular. It does not deserve four reps, which is twice as many as Donkey Kong, a much more popular series. But since this paragraph is the only reason Robin has for being cut, this just means, again, other series have just got to step their game up.

When I say other series, I mean Donkey Kong and Kirby. Donkey Kong is Nintendo's fifth most popular series; Kirby is the sixth. However, since the only characters Wii has are obscure, that ups the authority that the two series have. 4 would be a good number for both series.

For Donkey Kong, newcomers would be King K. Rool, and the unlockable Dixie Kong. Restating an earlier post, Rool adds to Nintendo's kingly villains theme, like Bowser, Ganon, and Dedede. Dixie Kong was planned for Brawl, so that makes her the next choice. For Kirby, Bandana Waddle Dee is the ideal newcomer. He completes the Kirby quartet, and is one of the only allies that Kirby has.

Kirby is a franchise that is often left out of the "under represented" conversation when it shouldn't be. It's a consistently high selling franchise, and it should probably go up to 4 reps soon (just not before Donkey Kong.)

I disagree about Fire Emblem being over repped due to the fact that representation is about more than just popularity. Fire Emblem is a series with a revolving cast and many different character classes and archetypes that could be represented. Compare this to something like Zelda, where the same characters, or versions of them, are almost always the main focus of the game. Zelda deserves more reps due to it's importance and popularity, but it is arguably already represented perfectly with what it has (same with Kirby, which might be why people don't argue too hard for a 4th rep.) I am not saying Fire Emblem needed 4 reps or should ever have more reps then Zelda. I'm just saying it make sense for Fire Emblem to have more characters than perhaps it's popularity warrants.

Pokemon is a funny franchise, since it has a huge varied cast of characters and is also immensely popular. It's the one franchise Nintendo probably has to consciously limit, as I'm sure they don't want half the roster to suddenly become Pokemon.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Kirby is a franchise that is often left out of the "under represented" conversation when it shouldn't be. It's a consistently high selling franchise, and it should probably go up to 4 reps soon (just not before Donkey Kong.)

I disagree about Fire Emblem being over repped due to the fact that representation is about more than just popularity. Fire Emblem is a series with a revolving cast and many different character classes and archetypes that could be represented. Compare this to something like Zelda, where the same characters, or versions of them, are almost always the main focus of the game. Zelda deserves more reps due to it's importance and popularity, but it is arguably already represented perfectly with what it has (same with Kirby, which might be why people don't argue too hard for a 4th rep.) I am not saying Fire Emblem needed 4 reps or should ever have more reps then Zelda. I'm just saying it make sense for Fire Emblem to have more characters than perhaps it's popularity warrants.

Pokemon is a funny franchise, since it has a huge varied cast of characters and is also immensely popular. It's the one franchise Nintendo probably has to consciously limit, as I'm sure they don't want half the roster to suddenly become Pokemon.

Zelda has plenty of potential to expand on it with massive numbers of abilities, items, and themes that can be explored. Naturally, though, the problem is character consistency. The only real major "recurring" characters have a lot of similarities to each other, or don't have very fleshed out themes.

Zelda really needs more recurring characters to get that added depth. One theme that Zelda could represent well is using instruments, something not really seen in Smash. Again, though, these can't simply be added to existing characters, and choosing a major character spells problems when any characters who fit the theme only appear once or twice. This is just the issue of Zelda not including recurring characters, which is annoying to me. The one non-recurring character in Smash, Sheik, could be replaced by Impa, but Sheik is such a staple its likely hard to part ways with her.


Another problem with Impa is that now she's gotten a separate moveset, its hard for people to realize that in the actual games she doesn't have much depth other than looking like a ninja in her most iconic and popular appearances (Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword).


The closest additional character Zelda could get after Impa is Vaati, but he's only appeared in two side games (one being considered only half a game), and one main game (Minish Cap). I guess that, yeah, there is Tingle, but he kinda fits the support character better. Now that he's been an AT twice I doubt that will change.


EDIT: As for Kirby, I don't think its under-represented because its already got the core cast of the series, and DK is bigger with less characters (it just had a break where it had no main games). Bandana Dee is a rising star, but comparatively he's not really comparable to the main antagonist of the DK series, DK's female lead, or even DK's grumpy old timer. Not that I think we'll get all three of them before Bandana Dee, but DK has a much larger extended cast, and a fairly well-rounded core cast that they've been slowly bringing back in the new DKC games.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Zelda has plenty of potential to expand on it with massive numbers of abilities, items, and themes that can be explored. Naturally, though, the problem is character consistency. The only real major "recurring" characters have a lot of similarities to each other, or don't have very fleshed out themes.

Zelda really needs more recurring characters to get that added depth. One theme that Zelda could represent well is using instruments, something not really seen in Smash. Again, though, these can't simply be added to existing characters, and choosing a major character spells problems when any characters who fit the theme only appear once or twice. This is just the issue of Zelda not including recurring characters, which is annoying to me. The one non-recurring character in Smash, Sheik, could be replaced by Impa, but Sheik is such a staple its likely hard to part ways with her.


Another problem with Impa is that now she's gotten a separate moveset, its hard for people to realize that in the actual games she doesn't have much depth other than looking like a ninja in her most iconic and popular appearances (Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword).


The closest additional character Zelda could get after Impa is Vaati, but he's only appeared in two side games (one being considered only half a game), and one main game (Minish Cap). I guess that, yeah, there is Tingle, but he kinda fits the support character better. Now that he's been an AT twice I doubt that will change.

I always thought that Midna or Ghirahim should be the next LoZ rep. Midna would represent the twilight energy used by a few characters, while Ghirahim would use a variety of skills, like the common teleportation.