Character Discussion Thread

[Xzsmmc]

Just Mewtwo would be wasted potential. Smash Bros is a system seller, and Nintendo knows this.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The doubt reminds me of when most of us thought Gematsu's newcomer list were the only ones that were going to be in the game, which I thought made little sense at the time.

 

[Arcadenik]

For the Ice Climbers: Just attach a bungee cord to the characters and you have two separately weighted models that can rotate and pull each other utilizing momentum shifts and other tricks.

Meh, I'd rather have SoPo and the lone Ice Climber's revamped Up+B would be having a Condor instead of Nana... and the bird would fly up while carrying the bungee cord... the bungee cord can be attached to the ledge... or it can sling Popo up.

Basically, the same Up+B except with the Condor instead of Nana.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo being the only character-based DLC wouldn't surprise me in the least (probably because I don't look at the situation with dollar signs in my eyes).
That being said, it also wouldn't surprise me if a select few others that were on the project-proposal and didn't make the final product were added in later. Ones deemed low priority without technical issues. And ones not decided against for specific reasoning (i.e. not someone like Chrom, in case he was part of the initial proposal).

 

[False Sense]

I could see DLC characters going either way, really. It takes a lot of effort to make just one character, but it's the kind of effort that could easily pay off if done well.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more characters beyond Mewtwo, but at the same time, I wouldn't be too surprised if that's all they want to do.

 

[Cool Typhlosion]

I hope isnt the only dlc but if he is it will be ok. We have stage builder and so we can make our own Characters and stages . Sure there are limits but it works

 

[Kalimdori]

Given all the stuff that hackers have found on the 3DS ROM (The selection screen arrows, the DLC shop, etc.) I would be shocked if Mewtwo was the only one we were getting.

Nintendo's a business, and Smash DLC will sell, they've made some dumb decisions in the past but I doubt this will be one of them. Only thing that might change that is if Sakurai isn't up to the task, and even then they'd probably just get somebody to take his place.

 

[N3ON]

As in fact, I did not; you did.

Sakurai does not like sequels, nor does he cater to them.

No argument there, hence why it is so important for the character selection to feel fresh.

If that was the first priority a lot more than six characters would've been scrapped.

The first priority is make a roster that will appeal to people. And not to understate the importance of newcomers, but people like what they know.

I'd say that it is, in fact, just those people. That is the exact nature of what we have been discussing. Of course, I could see a couple of veterans come back as DLC as well- but the assertion that they are more wanted and would sell better by Smash fans is not only unfounded, it is a hugely fallacious and based upon a matter of psychological projection.

I disagree. Why do you think they're starting with Mewtwo and not a newcomer? Because Mewtwo is popular? You know how Mewtwo got popular? By being cut. Beforehand, when people assumed he would just stick around, he was one of the least popular characters in Smash. Who is currently the most requested third-party? Snake. A character that no one would care about being in Smash if not for his previous inclusion. Who do you think the most requested retro is going to be in the future? As much as people wanted Takamaru before, the Ice Climber demand is going to be louder.

People think veterans aren't that requested because during the period of speculation they aren't asked for a ton in comparison to newcomers. That's not because fewer people want them, that's because people either assume or hope they'll return and feel like the fate of the veterans is much more out of their hands and therefore don't feel the need to vocally support them as much.

However, think about it. Most of these cut characters are ones that were originally popular or well-known enough a time or two ago to be included, not the leftovers of what we have now. These are characters that were popular before inclusion, gained popularity with inclusion - especially in demographics they were barely exposed to before including those many newcomers don't reach prior to inclusion, and were then taken away.

Of course newcomers hold an appeal too, but apart from Mario characters, some Pokemon, some third-parties, and a handful of other characters, the appeal is mostly going to be because they're new, or simply because it's more content, not because of the character itself. And that's a strong appeal too, but why do you think Mewtwo and Roy shot from characters of so-so popularity to the near-top of the popularity charts? Why do you think Strider and Mega Man and Venom and Cyclops were the most requested characters for UMvC3? Why do you think the veterans are dominating the poll for DLC? It's because people want what they're familiar with. That's the reason Smash is so successful in the first place, because they took popular characters people already knew and jammed them together. You might think affinity to the veterans is exclusive to the more dedicated Smash fans, but why would that be? Is it the mechanics of the characters we want back, or is it the characters themselves? I'm inclined to think it's the latter, and that's something that the dedicated and the more casual share.

There's obviously a place for both, I'm not suggesting we should only get veterans, I agree newcomers would also be highly profitable as well, but are veterans more wanted and would they sell better? There might be an exception here or there on both sides, but I believe they would.

Have you ever heard anyone make that statement that does not want the veterans back more than a newcomer, and tenaciously so?

I want Isaac more than any veteran, including Mewtwo. I want Inkling more than any veteran, apart from Mewtwo. I post in those threads regularly.

And I've never posted in the Lucas, Mewtwo, Ice Climbers, Snake, Squirtle, or Ivysaur threads. I've posted all of once in the Wolf thread commenting how Mewtwo's omission was worse. A real supporter of veterans I am.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I find it hard to take the people who seem so confident that Mewtwo is the only dlc we're getting seriously. They're probably the kind of people who'd deny anything that wasn't flat out confirmed.

Sakurai has spoken about dlc models before (he said he liked how Fallout 3 did it),
He spoke in an interview recently about dlc (in general) about how he'd be worried about providing value to players (that was the gist of it at least)
In that same interview he pretty much acknowledged how he knows fans would love dlc.

It shows he's not against dlc (which would be a serious nail in the coffin) and has been thinking about the potential of dlc. He's been thinking about it enough to have developed concerns about how he'd go about doing it.

I'd say the odds are in favour of more dlc after Mewtwo, but it's not a certainty by any means. Only Sakurai (and his team) know for sure.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If that was the first priority a lot more than six characters would've been scrapped.

The first priority is make a roster that will appeal to people. And not to understate the importance of newcomers, but people like what they know.


I disagree. Why do you think they're starting with Mewtwo and not a newcomer? Because Mewtwo is popular? You know how Mewtwo got popular? By being cut. Beforehand, when people assumed he would just stick around, he was one of the least popular characters in Smash. Who is currently the most requested third-party? Snake. A character that no one would care about being in Smash if not for his previous inclusion. Who do you think the most requested retro is going to be in the future? As much as people wanted Takamaru before, the Ice Climber demand is going to be louder.

People think veterans aren't that requested because during the period of speculation they aren't asked for a ton in comparison to newcomers. That's not because fewer people want them, that's because people either assume or hope they'll return and feel like the fate of the veterans is much more out of their hands and therefore don't feel the need to vocally support them as much.

However, think about it. Most of these cut characters are ones that were originally popular or well-known enough a time or two ago to be included, not the leftovers of what we have now. These are characters that were popular before inclusion, gained popularity with inclusion - especially in demographics they were barely exposed to before including those many newcomers don't reach, and were then taken away.

Of course newcomers hold an appeal too, but apart from Mario characters, some Pokemon, some third-parties, and a handful of other characters, the appeal is mostly going to be because they're new, not because of the character itself. And that's a strong appeal too, but why do you think Mewtwo and Roy shot from characters of so-so popularity to the near-top of the popularity charts? Why do you think Strider and Mega Man and Venom and Cyclops were the most requested characters for MvC3? Why do you think the veterans are dominating the poll for DLC? It's because people want what they're familiar with. That's the reason Smash is so successful in the first place, because they took popular characters people already knew and jammed them together. You might think affinity to the veterans is exclusive to the more dedicated Smash fans, but why would that be? Is it the mechanics of the characters we want back, or is it the characters themselves? I'm inclined to think it's the latter, and that's something that the dedicated and the more casual share.

There's obviously a place for both, I'm not suggesting we should only get veterans, I agree newcomers would also be highly profitable as well, but are veterans more wanted and would they sell better? There might be an exception here or there on both sides, but I believe they would.


I want Isaac more than any veteran, including Mewtwo. I want Inkling more than any veteran, apart from Mewtwo. I post in those threads regularly.

And I've never posted in the Lucas, Mewtwo, Ice Climbers, Snake, Squirtle, or Ivysaur threads. I've posted all of once in the Wolf thread commenting how Mewtwo's omission was worse. A real supporter of veterans I am.

This... is an extremely good post. You get my applause.

 

[PSIBoy]

If that was the first priority a lot more than six characters would've been scrapped.

The first priority is make a roster that will appeal to people. And not to understate the importance of newcomers, but people like what they know.

The whole 'fear of the unknown' argument. Like it. It's human nature.

I disagree. Why do you think they're starting with Mewtwo and not a newcomer? Because Mewtwo is popular? You know how Mewtwo got popular? By being cut. Beforehand, when people assumed he would just stick around, he was one of the least popular characters in Smash. Who is currently the most requested third-party? Snake. A character that no one would care about being in Smash if not for his previous inclusion. Who do you think the most requested retro is going to be in the future? As much as people wanted Takamaru before, the Ice Climber demand is going to be louder.

Thought Mewtwo was very popular since the first movie. Then again, Pokemon and Smash fanbases are quite different. But yeah, the Lucas, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, and IC support threads would be pretty much dead/nonexistent if they wasn't in Smash.

People think veterans aren't that requested because during the period of speculation they aren't asked for a ton in comparison to newcomers. That's not because fewer people want them, that's because people either assume or hope they'll return and feel like the fate of the veterans is much more out of their hands and therefore don't feel the need to vocally support them as much.

However, think about it. Most of these cut characters are ones that were originally popular or well-known enough a time or two ago to be included, not the leftovers of what we have now. These are characters that were popular before inclusion, gained popularity with inclusion - especially in demographics they were barely exposed to before including those many newcomers don't reach prior to inclusion, and were then taken away.

Of course newcomers hold an appeal too, but apart from Mario characters, some Pokemon, some third-parties, and a handful of other characters, the appeal is mostly going to be because they're new, not because of the character itself. And that's a strong appeal too, but why do you think Mewtwo and Roy shot from characters of so-so popularity to the near-top of the popularity charts? Why do you think Strider and Mega Man and Venom and Cyclops were the most requested characters for UMvC3? Why do you think the veterans are dominating the poll for DLC? It's because people want what they're familiar with. That's the reason Smash is so successful in the first place, because they took popular characters people already knew and jammed them together. You might think affinity to the veterans is exclusive to the more dedicated Smash fans, but why would that be? Is it the mechanics of the characters we want back, or is it the characters themselves? I'm inclined to think it's the latter, and that's something that the dedicated and the more casual share.

Very nice, but he'll argue that they would feel it was withheld content. Still don't quite understand that.

There's obviously a place for both, I'm not suggesting we should only get veterans, I agree newcomers would also be highly profitable as well, but are veterans more wanted and would they sell better? There might be an exception here or there on both sides, but I believe they would.

Agreed.

 

[N3ON]

This... is an extremely good post. You get my applause.

Cheers!

Thought Mewtwo was very popular since the first movie. Then again, Pokemon and Smash fanbases are quite different. But yeah, the Lucas, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, and IC support threads would be pretty much dead/nonexistent if they wasn't in Smash.

I'm just speaking of Mewtwo's popularity in regards to Smash. Yeah before he was included he was quite popular, but once he got included it plummeted, and only picked back up when he was cut. In fact many people wanted Mewtwo to get cut after Melee (ofc many of them turned out to be hypocrites ).

Very nice, but he'll argue that they would feel it was withheld content. Still don't quite understand that.

The people who will refuse to buy it on that principle will definitely be the minority. The small minority. Plus, newcomers can be withheld content too.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The whole 'fear of the unknown' argument. Like it. It's human nature.



Thought Mewtwo was very popular since the first movie. Then again, Pokemon and Smash fanbases are quite different. But yeah, the Lucas, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, and IC support threads would be pretty much dead/nonexistent if they wasn't in Smash.



Very nice, but he'll argue that they would feel it was withheld content. Still don't quite understand that.



Agreed.

Mewtwo was popular since the first movie. In fact, he was EXTREMELY popular.

@ N3ON 's point is that, in Smash, people didn't like Mewtwo very much, because Mewtwo, simply put, sucked. Mewtwo's overall popularity never changed. However, Mewtwo being cut dealt a serious blow because they didn't actually expect Mewtwo to be cut.


That said, I also somewhat disagree with @ N3ON 's comment. I do agree that Mewtwo being cut is why he's so requested right now, but he was already extremely popular outside of Smash. Roy didn't get nearly the fanfare, despite being a fairly popular character in Melee, maybe even more popular than Mewtwo as far as playstyle is concerned (since even a gimped Marth is still way better than Mewtwo).


I don't quite think other veterans are as likely as newcomers, though I definitely wouldn't say they won't happen (except Ice Climbers; the odds of them coming back are slim-to-none).

 

[N3ON]

Just to clarify before someone twists my words: I did not speak on character chances. Just what I believe more people want and what would sell better.

 

[AEMehr]

I don't doubt that would be the case when Club Nintendo goes offline, I'm more worried about the possibility that Mewtwo's all we're getting as far as character DLC

Well yeah you can worry about Mewtwo being the only dlc but Club Nintendo being closed down has nothing to do with future DLC.

 

[SmashChu]

Can't find the original post, but on the subject of IC:
I think they would work now with the New 3DS. The system has enough ram to run Xenoblade which has huge overworlds. The additional ram may make Ice Climbers work. If the system can run a Wii game without much down scaling, then it can likely run a character made on the Gamecube. The character could be an insentive to purchase a NEw 3DS as the character could come free if you register the system which would also unlock them on the Wii U.

I disagree. Why do you think they're starting with Mewtwo and not a newcomer? Because Mewtwo is popular? You know how Mewtwo got popular? By being cut. Beforehand, when people assumed he would just stick around, he was one of the least popular characters in Smash. Who is currently the most requested third-party? Snake. A character that no one would care about being in Smash if not for his previous inclusion. Who do you think the most requested retro is going to be in the future? As much as people wanted Takamaru before, the Ice Climber demand is going to be louder.

People think veterans aren't that requested because during the period of speculation they aren't asked for a ton in comparison to newcomers. That's not because fewer people want them, that's because people either assume or hope they'll return and feel like the fate of the veterans is much more out of their hands and therefore don't feel the need to vocally support them as much.

However, think about it. Most of these cut characters are ones that were originally popular or well-known enough a time or two ago to be included, not the leftovers of what we have now. These are characters that were popular before inclusion, gained popularity with inclusion - especially in demographics they were barely exposed to before including those many newcomers don't reach prior to inclusion, and were then taken away.

Of course newcomers hold an appeal too, but apart from Mario characters, some Pokemon, some third-parties, and a handful of other characters, the appeal is mostly going to be because they're new, or simply because it's more content, not because of the character itself. And that's a strong appeal too, but why do you think Mewtwo and Roy shot from characters of so-so popularity to the near-top of the popularity charts? Why do you think Strider and Mega Man and Venom and Cyclops were the most requested characters for UMvC3? Why do you think the veterans are dominating the poll for DLC? It's because people want what they're familiar with. That's the reason Smash is so successful in the first place, because they took popular characters people already knew and jammed them together. You might think affinity to the veterans is exclusive to the more dedicated Smash fans, but why would that be? Is it the mechanics of the characters we want back, or is it the characters themselves? I'm inclined to think it's the latter, and that's something that the dedicated and the more casual share.

There's obviously a place for both, I'm not suggesting we should only get veterans, I agree newcomers would also be highly profitable as well, but are veterans more wanted and would they sell better? There might be an exception here or there on both sides, but I believe they would.

I think this post sums up the issue nicely.

 

[pupNapoleon]

While this may be true, I don't think many fans of Mario or Pokemon will buy Smash for a DLC newcomer that has yet to be revealed. I don't think, for example, that there exists many Captain Toad fans who have not bought Smash 4 but would be willing to shell out $60 plus the price of DLC to buy the game if he is revealed. I don't know this for a fact, but I strongly suspect it to be true.

I also think that casual Smash fans, those that are bigger fans of Pokemon or Mario then Smash for example, are likely to not buy DLC regardless of what it is. They are not huge fans of the series and are therefore more likely to have moved on to other games by the time DLC has been announced. They are simply not going to sink as much time into it as hardcore Smash players. It is because of this that it makes a certain amount of sense to cater to your built in fan base (which consists largely of people like those on these forums) when creating DLC. This is exactly why most fighting game DLC consists of obscure (yet fan favorite) veterans.

Your two paragraphs contradict each other immensely. I doubt there are people who are fans of the veterans who don't own the game. However, there is likely an immensely untapped market in a huge market of new playable characters, particularly from new series. There is no argument that an actual market for selling the game, and thusly, selling the Wii U as a console in general, is stronger with veterans than newcomers.

Also, your point about 'Mario fans not buying DLC' is just, blatantly, incorrect. Nintendo launched their entire campaign of DLC with Super Luigi U. Mario Kart 8 has 50 percent more content thanks to the DLC.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Your two paragraphs contradict each other immensely. I doubt there are people who are fans of the veterans who don't own the game. However, there is likely an immensely untapped market in a huge market of new playable characters, particularly from new series. There is no argument that an actual market for selling the game, and thusly, selling the Wii U as a console in general, is stronger with veterans than newcomers.

Also, your point about 'Mario fans not buying DLC' is just, blatantly, incorrect. Nintendo launched their entire campaign of DLC with Super Luigi U. Mario Kart 8 has 50 percent more content thanks to the DLC.

My two paragraphs do not contradict each other, you're just missing the point. People who are Mario or Pokemon fans who have decided to not buy Smash will not be swayed into a purchase due to an additional Mario or Pokemon character being announced as DLC. The game already has a massive amount of Mario and Pokemon content after all. Returning veterans will not create many game sales either, but that is fine, as the primary reason for DLC is to create additional revenue from an existing game through microtransactions. It can add to the overall value proposition of a title, but sales for games are frontloaded and the second hand market for games is huge, so additional sales is a secondary concern. If you look at the weekly sales data for Mario Kart 8 on VGCHARTZ you will see that the DLC announcement had no prolonged effect on the game's sales. ( I know VGCHARTZ isn't the most reliable source, but it's the only one where I could find this sort of information.)

I also never stated that Mario fans will not purchase DLC. I worded this poorly so I can understand the confusion. What I meant is that Mario fans that are not huge Smash fans are less likely to buy DLC FOR SMASH BROS then Smash fans that are not huge Mario fans. The goal of DLC is to sell to the fan base that is most likely to purchase additional content. That's why veterans make sense.

So, to recap - no amount of DLC will push a significant number of additional copies of a game that is 8-12 months old. A game of that age is past its prime is no longer a system seller. On top of that a company wants to sell DLC to the demographic that is most likely to buy it, so it makes sense to pander to the "hardcore" fans of the franchise.

(The amount of content in Mario Kart 8 has nothing to do with the amount of people that actually bought it by the way, so I am not sure what the point of that statement was. In fact, one could argue that Nintendo felt compelled to add more content then is normal for downloadable content because they were afraid it would not sell other wise.)

 

[Arcadenik]

Good thing Duck Hunt Dog got in Smash in spite of not having enough supporters... now I don't need to worry about not having enough supporters like in pre Brawl and pre SSB4... and especially pre SSB5 where Ice Climbers are now the most wanted retro character that people would have ignored Duck Hunt Dog if he didn't get in SSB4. Now if Duck Hunt Dog is cut from SSB5, he would automatically be the most wanted retro character for SSB6.

 

[ShinyRegice]

I had a random thought today... what if we get DLCs as hidden characters not revealed before they officially release? Like, in a Direct presentation, Sakurai says "A new character will join the battle at [insert date here], but I won't say who. Buy the DLC on eShop, then unlock and discover it ourself in the game!" It's unlikely to happen, and it won't happen for Mewtwo for sure, but it would be so hype and it's pretty much the only way to recreate the same hype as when we unlocked characters like Luigi, Ganondorf or Mewtwo for the first time in 64 or Melee when we were kids with limited access to the internet and thus didn't know who the hidden characters were.

What do you think about it?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Y'know, regarding Mewtwo, I wouldn't be surprised if we got mad Teleport buffs. Like what happened to . Maybe Teleport won't do damage, but since my mind was sky high yesterday after playing Smash, I envisioned Mewtwo being able to do ground attacks when landing with Teleport. But, the ground moves would come out a few frames later, but are slightly stronger in return.

Also, I 3-stocked my friends with after my 3rd time playing. Felt pretty good. Diddy is really an amazing character. But am also probably gonna pick up again.

 

[Baskerville]

Y'know, regarding Mewtwo, I wouldn't be surprised if we got mad Teleport buffs. Like what happened to . Maybe Teleport won't do damage, but since my mind was sky high yesterday after playing Smash, I envisioned Mewtwo being able to do ground attacks when landing with Teleport. But, the ground moves would come out a few frames later, but are slightly stronger in return.

Also, I 3-stocked my friends with after my 3rd time playing. Felt pretty good. Diddy is really an amazing character. But am also probably gonna pick up again.

P:M teleports in Smash 4... good lord, I can't even imagine.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Not exactly P:M , I imagined it mostly for Mewtwo's ground attacks. He wouldn't be able to do the crazy **** we see in P:M, but I'd be 100% down with that happening nonetheless.

 

[pupNapoleon]

...only way to recreate the same hype as when we unlocked characters like Ganondorf or Mewtwo for the first time in 64 when we were kids with limited access to the internet and thus didn't know who the hidden characters were

Ahh... Had to love playing as Mewtwo in SSB64.

I've wanted truly hidden characters for quite some time- but my thought is that they most certainly would HAVE to be free characters, and it is unlikely to be post game characters at that. Maybe that is untrue and they are more likely if developing now, since the surprise cannot be spoiled ahead of time (and anyone who wants to know will find out... quickly. It would need a very, veyr simply unlock option, like first anything after the next Update). But--- It is something I've wanted for a long time, that initial burst of 'who is that silhouette!? I truly believe that love for surprise is actually why he have so many characters seen as 'strange picks, Sakurai is working of the same principle. It is why we have no Subspace Emissary this game, because the internet ruined it. If there is a way to truly surprise us that he can think of, I think he will attempt.

So, to recap - no amount of DLC will push a significant number of additional copies of a game that is 8-12 months old. A game of that age is past its prime is no longer a system seller. On top of that a company wants to sell DLC to the demographic that is most likely to buy it, so it makes sense to pander to the "hardcore" fans of the franchise.

(The amount of content in Mario Kart 8 has nothing to do with the amount of people that actually bought it by the way, so I am not sure what the point of that statement was. In fact, one could argue that Nintendo felt compelled to add more content then is normal for downloadable content because they were afraid it would not sell other wise.)

I still see your initial paragraphs as being contradictory. Additionally, Smash, even at 2 years old, is a system seller. Just like Mario Kart, it is one of the few games that is a 'must own' for any Nintendo console. Those two games, in fact, are nearly in a league all their own.
As far as selling the most of anything, it is possible that Nintendo could cater to the incredibly niche and specified group of 'hardcore players.' However, no evidence or common sense would point to this. To start, their entire marketing campaign for nearly a decade was the blue ocean technique, which is the exact opposite of what you are describing. That is finding a market who doesn't even know it wants to be a market yet. The Wii was this- it was sold to people, not exclusively but as a target, who didn't even know they wanted to play video games. That was their actual strategy. In addition to this, I'm not sure where you have the notion that only hardcore fans would be most likely to buy Smash DLC, but I find it incredibly false. In fact, I'd say that is the group that needn't be catered to- they will buy any DLC regardless of what it is. The Marketplace to target would be the group that isn't sure it would buy it. Not to mention, targeting a larger audience rather than a smaller audience means more profit.

I'd also say that, for MK8, the amount of DLC does correlate to the amount of purchases. We know for one it was already a highly sold game before DLC was even announced, so that answers that. However, in principle, it is almost surely lost revenue to spen a lot of time generating more content for a game that did not sell well- I'd say it received so much new content because it had such a large audience to placate and serve. The same could be, in theory, suggested for Smash. I do hope that last part becomes true.

 

[Arcadenik]

I had a random thought today... what if we get DLCs as hidden characters not revealed before they officially release? Like, in a Direct presentation, Sakurai says "A new character will join the battle at [insert date here], but I won't say who. Buy the DLC on eShop, then unlock and discover it ourself in the game!" It's unlikely to happen, and it won't happen for Mewtwo for sure, but it would be so hype and it's pretty much the only way to recreate the same hype as when we unlocked characters like Luigi, Ganondorf or Mewtwo for the first time in 64 or Melee when we were kids with limited access to the internet and thus didn't know who the hidden characters were.

What do you think about it?

I think that Sakurai really needs to stop doing daily updates like with Brawl and SSB4... they really spoiled us to the point we knew almost everything that are in the games when they came out. I think that for SSB5, Sakurai should just do quarterly updates... kinda like the April 2014 Direct... but every 3 months instead of everyday for 5 days per week. I mean, people will just hype even for one character whether it is a veteran or a newcomer anyway, especially after a 3-month drought. We will always spoil ourselves because we have access to the Internet... but only Sakurai has the power to control what will be on the Internet and when they will be on the Internet (except the blabbermouths who leak stuff like Sal Romano's source and the ESRB employee).

 

[Spatman]

If that was the first priority a lot more than six characters would've been scrapped.

The first priority is make a roster that will appeal to people. And not to understate the importance of newcomers, but people like what they know.


I disagree. Why do you think they're starting with Mewtwo and not a newcomer? Because Mewtwo is popular? You know how Mewtwo got popular? By being cut. Beforehand, when people assumed he would just stick around, he was one of the least popular characters in Smash. Who is currently the most requested third-party? Snake. A character that no one would care about being in Smash if not for his previous inclusion. Who do you think the most requested retro is going to be in the future? As much as people wanted Takamaru before, the Ice Climber demand is going to be louder.

People think veterans aren't that requested because during the period of speculation they aren't asked for a ton in comparison to newcomers. That's not because fewer people want them, that's because people either assume or hope they'll return and feel like the fate of the veterans is much more out of their hands and therefore don't feel the need to vocally support them as much.

However, think about it. Most of these cut characters are ones that were originally popular or well-known enough a time or two ago to be included, not the leftovers of what we have now. These are characters that were popular before inclusion, gained popularity with inclusion - especially in demographics they were barely exposed to before including those many newcomers don't reach prior to inclusion, and were then taken away.

Of course newcomers hold an appeal too, but apart from Mario characters, some Pokemon, some third-parties, and a handful of other characters, the appeal is mostly going to be because they're new, or simply because it's more content, not because of the character itself. And that's a strong appeal too, but why do you think Mewtwo and Roy shot from characters of so-so popularity to the near-top of the popularity charts? Why do you think Strider and Mega Man and Venom and Cyclops were the most requested characters for UMvC3? Why do you think the veterans are dominating the poll for DLC? It's because people want what they're familiar with. That's the reason Smash is so successful in the first place, because they took popular characters people already knew and jammed them together. You might think affinity to the veterans is exclusive to the more dedicated Smash fans, but why would that be? Is it the mechanics of the characters we want back, or is it the characters themselves? I'm inclined to think it's the latter, and that's something that the dedicated and the more casual share.

There's obviously a place for both, I'm not suggesting we should only get veterans, I agree newcomers would also be highly profitable as well, but are veterans more wanted and would they sell better? There might be an exception here or there on both sides, but I believe they would.


I want Isaac more than any veteran, including Mewtwo. I want Inkling more than any veteran, apart from Mewtwo. I post in those threads regularly.

And I've never posted in the Lucas, Mewtwo, Ice Climbers, Snake, Squirtle, or Ivysaur threads. I've posted all of once in the Wolf thread commenting how Mewtwo's omission was worse. A real supporter of veterans I am.

one of the best post I have ever read on Smashboards

and, I introduce myself: I'm a truly supporter of veterans than newcomer, one of that unicornish supporters you spoke about!
I think, in fact, that it's easier now for Sakuray add veterans on DLCs than completely new newcomers, who instead are going to preserve for the next SSB.
And, moreover and overall, I find SSB4 quite...incomplete, because of the lack of some, too many, veterans
we had yet enough newcomers for this game (17! SSB4 is the SSB game with more newcomers in the whole SSB series story
edit: mmm, no, Brawl had 18 newcomers... even if one was Toon Link, substantially a replacement for Young Link. Oh, well, a single character more or less doesn't change the core of my post)

 

[Bowserlick]

Would you want: Wolf, Lucas, Ice Climbers
or would you want: Dixie, Isaac, Chorus Kids
as DLC's.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It wouldn't really matter to me personally, but I'd pick characters with a fresh new play style.

 

[Kalimdori]

Would you want: Wolf, Lucas, Ice Climbers
or would you want: Dixie, Isaac, Chorus Kids
as DLC's.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wouldn't mind sacrificing Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers (3 characters who I never cared about before they got in Smash) for Dixie and Isaac (2 characters I actually cared about because I actually played their games).

 

[BluePikmin11]

"Why not both" has become an over-used joke at this point.
People here will obviously want both of those options.

 

[Lucimar]

Would you want: Wolf, Lucas, Ice Climbers
or would you want: Dixie, Isaac, Chorus Kids
as DLC's.

I would prefer having the three veterans back over those newcomers.

As much as I would like to see Dixie Kong and Issac, (I don't really care much for the Chorus Men personally) I would rather have three of my cut mains back.

 

[Bowserlick]

Because the discussion tilted toward veteran DLC's versus newcomer DLC's. With these two presented options, I am wondering who would pick which one.

I personally would go for the three newbies, even though I miss the presence of the Ice Climbers (and to a lesser degree Wolf).
I never liked the inclusion of Lucas.

 

[LasermasterA]

If I had to choose, definitely the 2nd option. The newcomers.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'd pick the newcomers. I never cared for the Ice Climber's playstyle, and although Wolf was my favourite of the space animals, I'd pick Dixie, my favourite female Nintendo character, and Isaac over him in a heartbeat.

 

[Kenith]

I literally haven't played a game with any of those characters in it, so I would personally pick Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I literally haven't played a game with any of those characters in it, so I would personally pick Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers.

Kenith, if you're into platformers at all, I implore you to pick up Tropical Freeze.

If you're not, then err...don't bother I guess.

 

[GamerGuy09]

This is why I want Bandana Dee as a playable character.

If we get him as a playable character, there is a chance that we might get a Rainbow Curse stage to go along with it. COULD YOU IMAGINE HOW NICE THAT WOULD BE?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I'd pick the veterans.

Dixie Kong is already a smash tour item, and I'm thinking the chorus men were originally planned, but had the same programming difficulties as the Ice Climbers.

 

[Kenith]

Kenith, if you're into platformers at all, I implore you to pick up Tropical Freeze.
If you're not, then err...don't bother I guess.

I'm planning on it, bro. Personally the only reason I'm not picking the newcomers option is because I think Chorus Kids are stupid.