Character Discussion Thread

[pupNapoleon]

I think the limbless body type is enough to be a pretty unique character. (Well, probably just in visual terms.)

Plus Sukapon clone

 

[Kenith]

Rayman is inherently interesting!

I don't have anything against Rayman, he just doesn't seem that interesting to me.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Rayman has a grapple beam though.

One that makes Samus extra jealous.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

From Magolor to RayMan huh? Get back to Magolor and discuss my moveset

As long as Rayman doesn't have a disjointed Diddy Uair, he seems cool. But not Skunny the Squirrel cool.

 

[AEMehr]

Plus Sukapon clone

Sukapon before Rayman pls.
Besides, if Sakurai was so against a character like Sukapon I highly doubt Rayman has got much of a chance imo.
Funny enough, Rayman became a trophy before Sukapon when Sakurai suggested he'd appear as a trophy.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Sukapon before Rayman pls.
Besides, if Sakurai was so against a character like Sukapon I highly doubt Rayman has got much of a chance imo.
Funny enough, Rayman became a trophy before Sukapon when Sakurai suggested he'd appear as a trophy.

Does it even mean anything if Sakurai said he was against something?
He was probably against half the roster in a previous iteration of this game, but here they stand. Sukapon was shot down many years ago, I think its safe to assume we don't really know what Sakurai thinks of him anymore.

 

[AEMehr]

Does it even mean anything if Sakurai said he was against something?
He was probably against half the roster in a previous iteration of this game, but here they stand. Sukapon was shot down many years ago, I think its safe to assume we don't really know what Sakurai thinks of him anymore.

I'm more certain it's for technical reasons than it is for personal ones. Sukapon and Rayman are limbless fighters, I would imagine that is a part of the potential problem.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Was Sukapon shot down like Villager was in Brawl or was it just that IC's were way........ cooler. (And thus just came in over Sukapon)

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm more certain it's for technical reasons than it is for personal ones. Sukapon and Rayman are limbless fighters, I would imagine that is a part of the potential problem.

I can't see how that would still be a problem on the current systems- a single character having six separate hitboxes isn't all that strange. In fact, it's a unique element unto it's own.

 

[AEMehr]

I can't see how that would still be a problem on the current systems- a single character having six separate hitboxes isn't all that strange. In fact, it's a unique element unto it's own.

Well I highly doubt it had anything to do with character preference, he had nothing against having Sukapon appear as a trophy in a future title (which didn't happen, but he was a sticker in Brawl at least).

 

[SmashChu]

I can't see how that would still be a problem on the current systems- a single character having six separate hitboxes isn't all that strange. In fact, it's a unique element unto it's own.

It may cause problems as the hit boxes tend to be the model themselves. You could have problems where attacks hit when they shouldn't, dead zones, and attacks missing you when they shouldn't.

Doesn't matter as there isn't a good reason to add either character.

 

[Deleted member]

You could just make the model have invisible limbs to sort out possible hitbox issues.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Rayman definitely has a lot to work with, and his lack of limbs already make him unique from every other character we have.

I don't think technical issues from the GameCube are going to affect anything now, either.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I'd love Rayman but I don't see how being limbless makes him unique. It's really an aesthetic thing more than anything.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'd love Rayman but I don't see how being limbless makes him unique. It's really an aesthetic thing more than anything.

Likewise, Rayman is one of the few third parties I'd want, but the only way I can see not having arms or legs making him unique is giving him improved reach since those hands and feet aren't limited by leg or arm length. He'd be fun as heck, but I don't know quite how unique he'd be.

I'm not even sure if it matters if someone is super unique as long as they're fun to play as.

 

[BluePikmin11]

He probably wouldn't be really unique moveset-wise though. Unless Rayman had his fists and feet go very far like Luffy's arms, but it would not look right.
He's unique, but not as far a having-a-gimmick unique.

 

[Kalimdori]

The only way I could see Rayman's limblessness making him truly stand out is if Sakurai made it so his body could disassemble and reassemble. Treat each portion of his body as a separate entity, only K.O. him if he loses his head. Probably wouldn't work on the 3DS, but it could make for some interesting stuff.

 

[N3ON]

What isn't true, that Sakurai doesn't like making sequels? He has outright stated this.

Yet he continues to make them. He might not like them, but he sure caters to them.

It's also the reason so much of each Smash game is dropped in one player mode from one game to the next, because he likes to try new things.

Another reason is because people don't care about the one-player mode in Smash all that much, which gives him freedom to experiment. If fans treated it the same as standard multiplayer that **** wouldn't get touched. Maybe built upon, but not changed to any great extent.

Obviously he holds some respect for characters who have had some longevity in the game- and clearly he is okay with cutting characters as well, even if it is not his favorite thing to do.

I never said he wasn't ok with cutting characters, but obviously if each new game was devoid of influence from others in the series, the roster would look much different. The sequels cater more to the past entries than they deviate from them as far as the roster goes.

Besides, he invented Kirby, why wouldn't he love Jigglypuff?

Because there's more to a character than colour and shape? I'm not saying he doesn't like Jigglypuff, but it's not like she'd be there if she wasn't in 64, regardless of what Sakurai thinks of her.


I agree with SmashChu. That's not to say new characters would be bad choices for DLC, but previous veterans do have quite the fanbase familiar with them. I mean of the people who got SSB4, what other games is it quite likely they've played before? Previous Smash ones. Especially since the Wii U audience is so populated by people who have owned a previous Nintendo console. And given that people gravitate towards characters they are familiar with, it makes a lot of sense to release some choice veterans as DLC.[/quote]

 

[pupNapoleon]

I simply don't agree with any of your points here.

Yet he continues to make them. He might not like them, but he sure caters to them.

CATERS to is quite a unique word- he has said things akin to considering each one a completely new entry. I'm not sure what 'catering' to a sequel means, but if it means being able to adapt anything he desires from the previous entry and do away with what fans expect to create what he wants entirely, then there you go.

Another reason is because people don't care about the one-player mode in Smash all that much, which gives him freedom to experiment. If fans treated it the same as standard multiplayer that **** wouldn't get touched. Maybe built upon, but not changed to any great extent.

I think this is a rather foolish argument. 'No one is going to play it so it doesn't matter what he does?' You personally may feel that way, but certainly many people play it.
Additionally, multiplayer IS changed a LOT each game- perhaps you should have a chat with the competitive community. The game is still a multiplayer king of the hill fighter, but the mechanics change immensely, moreso than most other fighting games.

I never said he wasn't ok with cutting characters, but obviously if each new game was devoid of influence from others in the series, the roster would look much different. The sequels cater more to the past entries than they deviate from them as far as the roster goes.

I guess this is actually one point I can agree with. Yes, in a Nintendo All-Stars roster, he tends to bring back more Nintendo All-Stars each game, rather than scour for new ones, purely. That just seems logical.

I agree with SmashChu. That's not to say new characters would be bad choices for DLC, but previous veterans do have quite the fanbase familiar with them. I mean of the people who got SSB4, what other games is it quite likely they've played before? Previous Smash ones. Especially since the Wii U audience is so populated by people who have owned a previous Nintendo console. And given that people gravitate towards characters they are familiar with, it makes a lot of sense to release some choice veterans as DLC.

Actually, the fact that it is still a Nintendo game means that the likelihood is that more Smash 4 players have played Mario and Pokemon than Smash prior. Just about anyone who has played Smash has played both of those other series, but a large portion of those who have played the others have not played smash.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

We're coming to defeat those pathetic heroes.

...Some day.

 

[N3ON]

I simply don't agree with any of your points here.

CATERS to is quite a unique word- he has said things akin to considering each one a completely new entry. I'm not sure what 'catering' to a sequel means, but if it means being able to adapt anything he desires from the previous entry and do away with what fans expect to create what he wants entirely, then there you go.

If you're not sure what catering to sequels means... perhaps you shouldn't have used that word. As far as Smash goes, yes, each one is a new entry, but as new an entry as they might be, it's clear they're built off an already established base with an already established roster in an existing series.

I think this is a rather foolish argument. 'No one is going to play it so it doesn't matter what he does?' You personally may feel that way, but certainly many people play it.

Yes they do, but it's not the selling point of the game. Not that they don't help move units, but the number of people who pick up the game for anything other than the characters and the multiplayer are few and far between. If the SSE had been a huge game-seller, you can bet that something like it would've returned.

Additionally, multiplayer IS changed a LOT each game- perhaps you should have a chat with the competitive community. The game is still a multiplayer king of the hill fighter, but the mechanics change immensely, moreso than most other fighting games.

The mechanics aren't exclusive to multiplayer, they are part of the game as a whole. Multiplayer itself changes to a very minor degree each time compared to the other modes, which have gone from a quick Adventure mode to a length story to being omitted as a whole, we've gotten party-style board games, classic that has gone from an arcade mode to some new weird thing with All-Star being the most consistent of the lot, and even the lineup of characters in that mode is presented differently every game.

Plus... you may feel that way personally about the mechanics, and you're right, they do change, but among the majority, people are going to notice the differences in the other modes over the changes in mechanics, where the most you'll hear from an average player is "it feels faster/slower" or "more/less floaty", but that's not going to change the game to any great extent for them.

I guess this is actually one point I can agree with. Yes, in a Nintendo All-Stars roster, he tends to bring back more Nintendo All-Stars each game, rather than scour for new ones, purely. That just seems logical.

It's not just the "All-Stars" he brings back, it's the majority of the roster, which includes many characters that would be a stretch to classify as "All-Stars", a fair amount of whom probably wouldn't be included now if they hadn't been in the past.

Actually, the fact that it is still a Nintendo game means that the likelihood is that more Smash 4 players have played Mario and Pokemon than Smash prior. Just about anyone who has played Smash has played both of those other series, but a large portion of those who have played the others have not played smash.

So supposing Smash comes after Mario and Pokemon, why would it not make sense to release veterans as DLC? The audience for Smash characters (veterans) would still be huge. If your argument is that more people would be familiar with Mario and Pokemon characters, that's also implying, by your ranking, that more people would be familiar with veterans than any series apart from those two. And the thing is, we already got seven Mario characters, including three that weren't in Brawl, and are already getting a Pokemon DLC character... so even though I agree those series rank at the top, the likelihood of them getting more has become a bit diminished, on the other hand they can keep pulling from the veteran bin as that spans many series and includes characters of high popularity and familiarity among Smash fans (aka a large portion of SSB4's audience).

I'm not against newcomer DLC or anything, I hope and expect we'll get some, but I don't see what's wrong with a mix. Yeah, there's a different kind of excitement with newcomers, but the thing is is that people want the specific veterans over most of the potential newcomers. It's not just people on the internet or people knowledgeable about Smash's depth that get attached to a character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

is a real boring character to play as I feel. I like her as a character far more than the other clones, but as a Smash character I really cannot stand her. It's like they took all the flair out of , and placed it into a life-less puppet named . Again, no disrespect but whoa she is really just not fun to play with at all.

 

[Deathlightning21]

is a real boring character to play as I feel. I like her as a character far more than the other clones, but as a Smash character I really cannot stand her. It's like they took all the flair out of , and placed it into a life-less puppet named . Again, no disrespect but whoa she is really just not fun to play with at all.

Really Now? I kinda feel the other way about it. I like to play Lucina more than Marth because she seems more free flowing and fun to me than playing Marth in some situations.

 

[Kenith]

is a real boring character to play as I feel. I like her as a character far more than the other clones, but as a Smash character I really cannot stand her. It's like they took all the flair out of , and placed it into a life-less puppet named . Again, no disrespect but whoa she is really just not fun to play with at all.

Lucina being in the game at all more than makes up for being like that. I really don't even notice the difference when I play Marth.

 

[Wintropy]

Lucina being in the game at all more than makes up for being like that. I really don't even notice the difference when I play Marth.

I'm inclined to agree. Lucina is a pleasure to play.

 

[pupNapoleon]

If you're not sure what catering to sequels means... perhaps you shouldn't have used that word.

As in fact, I did not; you did.

Yes they do, but it's not the selling point of the game.

No argument there, hence why it is so important for the character selection to feel fresh.

I'm not against newcomer DLC or anything, I hope and expect we'll get some, but I don't see what's wrong with a mix. Yeah, there's a different kind of excitement with newcomers, but the thing is is that people want the specific veterans over most of the potential newcomers. It's not just people on the internet or people knowledgeable about Smash's depth that get attached to a character.

I'd say that it is, in fact, just those people. That is the exact nature of what we have been discussing. Of course, I could see a couple of veterans come back as DLC as well- but the assertion that they are more wanted and would sell better by Smash fans is not only unfounded, it is a hugely fallacious and based upon a matter of psychological projection. Have you ever heard anyone make that statement that does not want the veterans back more than a newcomer, and tenaciously so?

 

[Substitution]

I wouldn't mind seeing Rayman in as DLC. My only question is what would his moveset be?

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

I wouldn't mind seeing Rayman in as DLC. My only question is what would his moveset be?

@ JamesDNaux came up with a pretty good moveset for him. http://smashboards.com/threads/raym...eams-dlc-support-thread-upcoming-20th.324674/

 

[Curious Villager]

I wonder if Rayman would overall work kinda like how Duck Hunt works, although to a more broad extend? I don't really have much knowledge to that kind of thing so I'm not sure if that's even comparable.... :T

 

[Spazzy_D]

Actually, the fact that it is still a Nintendo game means that the likelihood is that more Smash 4 players have played Mario and Pokemon than Smash prior. Just about anyone who has played Smash has played both of those other series, but a large portion of those who have played the others have not played smash.

While this may be true, I don't think many fans of Mario or Pokemon will buy Smash for a DLC newcomer that has yet to be revealed. I don't think, for example, that there exists many Captain Toad fans who have not bought Smash 4 but would be willing to shell out $60 plus the price of DLC to buy the game if he is revealed. I don't know this for a fact, but I strongly suspect it to be true.

I also think that casual Smash fans, those that are bigger fans of Pokemon or Mario then Smash for example, are likely to not buy DLC regardless of what it is. They are not huge fans of the series and are therefore more likely to have moved on to other games by the time DLC has been announced. They are simply not going to sink as much time into it as hardcore Smash players. It is because of this that it makes a certain amount of sense to cater to your built in fan base (which consists largely of people like those on these forums) when creating DLC. This is exactly why most fighting game DLC consists of obscure (yet fan favorite) veterans.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am quite sure that after Mewtwo, Ice Climbers are next in line.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Am quite sure that after Mewtwo, Ice Climbers are next in line.

I dunno. They just announced that they're closing Club Nintendo, so there may not be any more character DLC after Mewtwo at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Unless we're getting a revamped SoPo, Ice Climbers are nothing but a pipe dream.

 

[Kalimdori]

I dunno. They just announced that they're closing Club Nintendo, so there may not be any more character DLC after Mewtwo at all.

They've also announced that they will have a service to replace Club Nintendo, meaning it won't effect the chances of DLC characters at all.

 

[Staarih]

Not that a lack of any sort of Club Nintendo system or alike would affect DLC to begin with...

 

[Bowserlick]

For the Ice Climbers: Just attach a bungee cord to the characters and you have two separately weighted models that can rotate and pull each other utilizing momentum shifts and other tricks.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

They've also announced that they will have a service to replace Club Nintendo, meaning it won't effect the chances of DLC characters at all.

I just think Mewtwo's the only character DLC we're getting either way. Just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't be too surprised if I'm wrong

 

[BluePikmin11]

For the Ice Climbers: Just attach a bungee cord to the characters and you have two separately weighted models that can rotate and pull each other utilizing momentum shifts and other tricks.

It's an idea I doubt Sakurai would do if he thought of ideas from scratch.

 

[AEMehr]

I dunno. They just announced that they're closing Club Nintendo, so there may not be any more character DLC after Mewtwo at all.

What Staaarih said, Mewtwo is only being distributed by Club Nintendo because of the whole free download if you buy both games deal.

Other DLC (if we do get more) will more than likely be distributed through the eShop / in the actual game like with Mario Kart 8.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

What Staaarih said, Mewtwo is only being distributed by Club Nintendo because of the whole free download if you buy both games deal.

Other DLC (if we do get more) will more than likely be distributed through the eShop / in the actual game like with Mario Kart 8.

I don't doubt that would be the case when Club Nintendo goes offline, I'm more worried about the possibility that Mewtwo's all we're getting as far as character DLC