Character Discussion Thread

[Twin Shot]

If IC can't work in 3DS and can't work in 8 Player Smash, don't really see them in the line of possibility anymore.

I would totally be open for an overhaul to get them to work. Like I've stated before, maybe they can just make Nana (or Popo pending of costume choice) act like Luma and be an extension of you rather than having it's own AI. If they could have 8 Rosalumas the Should be able to handle 8 ICs.

Also the ICs chant is still in the 3DS version, so we know they were there at some point.

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Ideally I would like to see all the cut characters back as their own character (or Palatte Swap Character at minimum). And yes...this does include Young Link (MM Remake Babay! Swap TLink Skin?) and Pichu.

Don't know how I feel about the Trainer as a character because we more so controlled the Mons then him..

 

[JaidynReiman]

If IC can't work in 3DS and can't work in 8 Player Smash, don't really see them in the line of possibility anymore.

I would totally be open for an overhaul to get them to work. Like I've stated before, maybe they can just make Nana (or Popo pending of costume choice) act like Luma and be an extension of you rather than having it's own AI. If they could have 8 Rosalumas the Should be able to handle 8 ICs.

Also the ICs chant is still in the 3DS version, so we know they were there at some point.

----------------------------------------------------

Ideally I would like to see all the cut characters back as their own character (or Palatte Swap Character at minimum). And yes...this does include Young Link (MM Remake Babay! Swap TLink Skin?) and Pichu.

Don't know how I feel about the Trainer as a character because we more so controlled the Mons then him..

To be honest, I think that they already had IC's working in 8-player Smash. Sakurai said they were working perfectly on Wii U, presumably that's even in 8-player Smash since I highly doubt that was shoehorned in at the last second.

 

[Staarih]

Sakurai doesn't seem to like change, so I bet he'd rather just not have Ice Climbers in the game at all if they don't work the way he wants them to (as in Nana having her own AI like before). That said, I do have a feeling they worked in 8-player Smash and the 3DS is the main concern here. But who knows... I personally would love to see them return, and wouldn't mind some changes if that's what it takes to get them back. Sakurai's mind is a different matter though haha!

 

[AEMehr]

To be honest, I think that they already had IC's working in 8-player Smash. Sakurai said they were working perfectly on Wii U, presumably that's even in 8-player Smash since I highly doubt that was shoehorned in at the last second.

I agree, the fact that 8-Player Smash was supposed to come to the franchise since Melee should support that. It's not like it was in the way or anything from the beginning, so why would it be now?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I could see ICs returning as DLC specifically for the Wii U and New 3DS. It'd be a bit of a scummy move, but what with technical limitations, Nintendo wanting to incentivize purchasing the New 3DS, and them probably being near complete (at least on the Wii U), it wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

Cutting them from the Wii U version because of the limitations of the 3DS version is far more worse than making them New 3DS and Wii U exclusive.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The real question I am pondering about is will Sakurai also exclude other characters who are harder to program than others. From Brawl, the two most time consuming characters, Pokemon Trainer and Ice Climbers got cut. And Zelda, Sheik, Samus and Zero Suit Samus got split up. What will happen to characters as Rosalina and Duck Hunt in the next installations?

 

[AEMehr]

The real question I am pondering about is will Sakurai also exclude other characters who are harder to program than others. From Brawl, the two most time consuming characters, Pokemon Trainer and Ice Climbers got cut. And Zelda, Sheik, Samus and Zero Suit Samus got split up. What will happen to characters as Rosalina and Duck Hunt in the next installations?

I highly doubt Duck Hunt is any strain on the hardware, the fighter is still one entity with two characters on it they're just animated together, and if Rosalina and Luma made it on the 3DS version there's no reason for them to be cut for technical limitations. We'd have the Climbers, Pokemon Trainer, and transformations still if the 3DS version didn't exist, though I prefer the lack of transformations for balancing reasons. So we'd still have the Climbers at least.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The split up of Zelda, Sheik, Samus, Zero Suit Samus and Charizard was a real good thing I felt. I always liked the idea of that, even though innitially I advocated for Impa to replace Sheik.

Pokemon Trainer was also a real big time consuming character, with a lot of flaws. Like Ice Climbers. So am glad Sakurai actually had the balls to cut them. Am less happy he included other terrible choices as the Mii Fighters. Duck Hunt is an overal better choice for a retro character than Ice Climbers anyway, cause people actually give a **** about Duck Hunt as a game.

Anyway, am hoping for more ballsy moves from Sakurai like these.

 

[Kenith]

Pokemon Trainer was also a real big time consuming character, with a lot of flaws. Like Ice Climbers. So am glad Sakurai actually had the balls to cut them. Am less happy he included other terrible choices as the Mii Fighters. Duck Hunt is an overal better choice for a retro character than Ice Climbers anyway, cause people actually give a **** about Duck Hunt as a game.

...
I give a **** about Ice Climber as a game.

 

[AEMehr]

The split up of Zelda, Sheik, Samus, Zero Suit Samus and Charizard was a real good thing I felt. I always liked the idea of that, even though innitially I advocated for Impa to replace Sheik.

Pokemon Trainer was also a real big time consuming character, with a lot of flaws. Like Ice Climbers. So am glad Sakurai actually had the balls to cut them. Am less happy he included other terrible choices as the Mii Fighters. Duck Hunt is an overal better choice for a retro character than Ice Climbers anyway, cause people actually give a **** about Duck Hunt as a game.

Anyway, am hoping for more ballsy moves from Sakurai like these.

It's not like Sakurai had any other choice with the Climbers or transformation characters, they didn't work on the 3DS.

 

[Frostwraith]

I think Zelda, Sheik, Samus and Zero Suit Samus will stay split from now on. Same for Charizard being solo.

The Ice Climbers could return for the next games, even if there's a handheld version. The next handheld console ought to have more power than even the New 3DS.

I actually heard some rumors about Nintendo making an hybrid console that is portable but can be linked to a TV or monitor like a home console, which honestly sounds interesting... And I'm straying from the topic.

Anyway, I wouldn't count on Ice Climbers being version-exclusive DLC. Sakurai was clear about the design choice made regarding characters: both versions are to share the same roster and inter-connectivity between revolves around transferring customized characters.

The only way I could see it happen is Ice Climbers being exclusive for the New 3DS, so it still allows the inter-connectivity between versions, but considering that might alienate regular 3DS users, it might not happen. On the other hand, New 3DS does have the 2nd Circle Pad that can be used for Smash, thus giving a better experience than on a regular 3DS, not to mention exclusive games like Xenoblade Chronicles. Plus, it could be an incentive to sell New 3DS consoles that will probably replace the regular 3DS over time.

Long story short, the whole alienating 3DS users argument goes down the gutter considering Smash itself already has enhanced stuff for the New 3DS (2nd Circle Pad for instant Smash attacks).

 

[AEMehr]

I think Zelda, Sheik, Samus and Zero Suit Samus will stay split from now on. Same for Charizard being solo.

The Ice Climbers could return for the next games, even if there's a handheld version. The next handheld console ought to have more power than even the New 3DS.

I actually heard some rumors about Nintendo making an hybrid console that is portable but can be linked to a TV or monitor like a home console, which honestly sounds interesting... And I'm straying from the topic.

Anyway, I wouldn't count on Ice Climbers being version-exclusive DLC. Sakurai was clear about the design choice made regarding characters: both versions are to share the same roster and inter-connectivity between revolves around transferring customized characters.

The only way I could see it happen is Ice Climbers being exclusive for the New 3DS, so it still allows the inter-connectivity between versions, but considering that might alienate regular 3DS users, it might not happen. On the other hand, New 3DS does have the 2nd Circle Pad that can be used for Smash, thus giving a better experience than on a regular 3DS, not to mention exclusive games like Xenoblade Chronicles. Plus, it could be an incentive to sell New 3DS consoles that will probably replace the regular 3DS over time.

Long story short, the whole alienating 3DS users argument goes down the gutter considering Smash itself already has enhanced stuff for the New 3DS (2nd Circle Pad for instant Smash attacks).

With 3DS systems no longer being built in Japan, this could be a likely scenario too. Though I do not see it happening until the New 3DS has been in every region for at least half a year or something.

 

[Frostwraith]

With 3DS systems no longer being built in Japan, this could be a likely scenario too. Though I do not see it happening until the New 3DS has been in every region for at least half a year or something.

I was thinking of that when I posted.

Regular 3DS's being discontinued, the New 3DS is essentially a replacement.

Something I also noticed is that, on the regular 3DS version, the fighter models' quality is enhanced when the game is paused, becoming lower quality when the game is running. And I think that on the New 3DS, the models' quality stays higher when the game is running.

Loading times are faster as well and it has Miiverse integration while the game is running. Maybe the Ice Climbers can run on the New 3DS version.

Anyway, I think Ice Climbers DLC should only be released after regular 3DS's are discontinued worldwide.

 

[Kenith]

That would be great for Ice Climbers fans, but at the point 3DS's are discontinued and New 3DS are global, they will probably be finished with Smash 4 content anyway. Plus, the people who wanted them might not care anymore...

 

[wizardto1]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KivwmAoIq3
Apparently this was found. What does this mean?

Of course it could be for

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KivwmAoIq3
Apparently this was found. What does this mean?

Of course it could be for

I saw that on the Smash Bros Reddit. I'm thinking it's either for Mewtwo or for any DLC character.

 

[N3ON]

Cutting them from the Wii U version because of the limitations of the 3DS version is far more worse than making them New 3DS and Wii U exclusive.

Well that's why I said it'd be scummy, but Sakurai seems pretty adamant about there not being console exclusive DLC, and technically this would make them available for both systems while at the same time potentially overcoming past limitations and acting as incentive to pick up a New 3DS, that's why I could see it happening. I'm not denying it'd be a real slimy thing to do.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KivwmAoIq3
Apparently this was found. What does this mean?

Of course it could be for

I suspect it's just for all future DLC characters so they don't have to call the KI VAs back (assuming they haven't already recorded for them).

 

[Chandeelure]

Hmm...if that Palutena thing is for all the possible DLC characters, that would disconfirm all the KI characters, because Palutena doesn't know about them XD

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa is a time traveller, she hides her identity in Skyward Sword, and also doesn't quite fit in with any of the other Zelda characters. She's also from the 'surface' in Skyward Sword, which was a whole different world than Skyloft. So yes, it's Impa.

 

[Chandeelure]

If it's for a specific character, it's probably Magolor, and no, I'm not biased, it just makes sense.
And Bandana Dee would be the new Chrom D:

 

[Ffamran]

Impa is a time traveller, she hides her identity in Skyward Sword, and also doesn't quite fit in with any of the other Zelda characters. She's also from the 'surface' in Skyward Sword, which was a whole different world than Skyloft. So yes, it's Impa.

I want a mod of this for Ocarina of Time like that one Waluigi mod.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KivwmAoIq3
Apparently this was found. What does this mean?

Of course it could be for

Yeah. Possibly not just for Mewtwo but for other character dlc in the future. It's a shame we may not get new ones but I can understand they'll want to cut down on the work wherever they can.

If nothing else I guess it shows they're definitely open to character dlc beyond Mewtwo. If they were set on Mewtwo being the only dlc character they would have just recorded a coniversation specifically for him.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Oh hey, @ Diddy Kong is back.
*Cues intense Vaati propaganda*

 

[kikaru]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KivwmAoIq3
Apparently this was found. What does this mean?

Of course it could be for

I'd imagine it's a sort of error handler in case the game encounters unexpected characters it does not recognize to prevent crashes. Pokemon Emerald employed a similar mechanic by using ?????????? as a placeholder to prevent crashing.

Two other unlikely scenarios could be an early conversation for the Mii Fighters or encountering a character online that you have not unlocked yet.

 

[Frostwraith]

It's probably just a fail safe that could be used as a catch all for any DLC characters.

Because DLC characters weren't planned from the beginning, it's possible that Nintendo wouldn't want to run on the possibility of not being able to get the same voice actors to record more conversations, so this conversation can serve as a safeguard.

Of course, that doesn't invalidate the possibility of DLC characters having their own conversations.

The only characters for which the conversation wouldn't make sense would be for Kid Icarus characters, but I don't believe there will be more of them as DLC, considering 3 of them are in the game already.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Another Kid Icarus character would make me rage with the intensity of 12 tsunamis, 35 vulcano eruptions, 54 scale 10 earthquakes, 8 nuclear missiles, and a fully charged Wario Waft in the face.

I basically do not want that to ever happen.

 

[BluePikmin11]

More Kid Icarus characters are always a good thing, especially if it's Hades or Viridi.

 

[Frostwraith]

Another Kid Icarus character would make me rage with the intensity of 12 tsunamis, 35 vulcano eruptions, 54 scale 10 earthquakes, 8 nuclear missiles, and a fully charged Wario Waft in the face.

I basically do not want that to ever happen.

What are you gonna do about it, if it happens?

What if said Kid Icarus character came along with 2 or 3 Donkey Kong characters and/or Impa?

More Kid Icarus characters are always a good thing, especially if it's Hades or Viridi.

More characters, regardless of series, are always a good thing.

If it's a character with impact and fans, no way it can be a bad thing. In a game like Smash, the more the merrier. It is a huge crossover, after all.

I actually wouldn't mind Pichu back, by the way. I'd be happy to see another Melee character return. He would bring something Smash only had in one title: the joke character. One complete with a scrappy mechanic and being inferior in every regard to the counterpart he's based on.

Contrast with Jigglypuff, who's a Lethal Joke Character. She may look like a joke character, but is actually more powerful than it seems at a first glance.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

The only way I'd be okay with another Kid Icarus character is if a major cleanup comes in. NOTE: This is me being reasonable, not me being emotional

1. Demote Dark Pit to an Alternate Costume for a more unique anti-hero like Viridi (Not saying "Cut" to be fair with Dark Pit users)
2. Don't have over abundance of kid icarus enemies in adventure categories such as Smash Run
3. Actually make clear that a character is playable unlike the trolling at E3 they did for Dark Pit

The following can stay in though

1. Kid Icarus current assist trophy lineup
2. The Palutena Easter eggs. (That plays Dark Pits when Pit sees the alternate suit of him on another Pit, also being fair)
3. Palutena being playable. (She probably will never be cut anyway, I'm just saying its undesireable to think about)

 

[Frostwraith]

The only way I'd be okay with another Kid Icarus character is if a major cleanup comes in. NOTE: This is me being reasonable, not me being emotional

1. Demote Dark Pit to an Alternate Costume for a more unique anti-hero like Viridi (Not saying "Cut" to be fair with Dark Pit users)
2. Don't have over abundance of kid icarus enemies in adventure categories such as Smash Run
3. Actually make clear that a character is playable unlike the trolling at E3 they did for Dark Pit

The following can stay in though

1. Kid Icarus current assist trophy lineup
2. The Palutena Easter eggs. (That plays Dark Pits when Pit sees the alternate suit of him on another Pit, also being fair)
3. Palutena being playable. (She probably will never be cut anyway, I'm just saying its undesireable to think about)

They wouldn't remove stuff from the finished game like that. Would be a waste of resources and an utterly nonsensical thing to do from any professional developer's perspective.

So no, you're not being reasonable. Rather, you're being ignorant.

Dark Pit at the end of Palutena's trailer wasn't trolling, but a tease just like Mr. Game & Watch at the end of the Pac-Man trailer. Also, it's very possible that when the trailer was made (note that the trailer was outsourced to an anime studio), Dark Pit was still an alt.

When the Robin and Lucina trailer was produced, she was already a clone, hence why she was given a proper introduction.

Why demote Dark Pit now that he's been separated? If they were to demote him like that, they wouldn't have given him clone status in the first place. Oh, and might as well demote Lucina and Dr. Mario too while they're at it.

As for the Smash Run enemies, they're just ported stuff. I think Sakurai went overboard, but I think he cared more about gameplay than anything else, so he was pragmatic in that regard. Each enemy acts uniquely, as was one of Sakurai's criteria to add enemies.

Anyway, it's not like there will be more Kid Icarus characters, so I'm not sure why is this even being discussed in the first place.

By the way, Viridi isn't an anti-hero. She's an anti-villain.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only old veteran I'm 100% opposed to see return at this point is Young Link. Cause Toon Link was basically already his replacement in Brawl, and the trio of would be even less unique than .

 

[Pazzo.]

I don't consider anything other than cut characters likely, but I still think some ATs could work as characters.

There's already a fully working model in-game with some voice acting.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I somehow think we might still see Chrom as DLC.

 

[Pazzo.]

I somehow think we might still see Chrom as DLC.

Anything's possible.

I'm gunning on Dillon, if only for biased reasons.

 

[Kenith]

I somehow think we might still see Chrom as DLC.

Honestly feel the same way. It would really funny if he did become DLC and we still did not see Roy come back.

 

[Frostwraith]

Only old veteran I'm 100% opposed to see return at this point is Young Link. Cause Toon Link was basically already his replacement in Brawl, and the trio of would be even less unique than .

More like, Young Link isn't going to happen at all.

Judging by Sakurai's comments of how important it is to have a younger version of Link when talking about Toon Link in Brawl, it seems that he effectively replaced Young Link.

I'd say it's a glorified design change. Think what happened with Link, Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf when they changed their OoT designs to those from TP, except with a new name and identity. Rather then being Link, but young, it's more specifically the Link(s) from the cel-shaded games, implying to be a different reincarnation.

Plus, Toon Link's trophy in this game specifically states he's "a cartoon version of young Link".

Those factors pretty much kill any chance at Young Link returning.

I somehow think we might still see Chrom as DLC.

With him having an established role as Robin's Final Smash? Not gonna happen.

They already programmed him to be part of the move only to throw that away? Doesn't make sense from a developer's point of view. It is a waste of resources.

Same goes for Assist Trophies. Count yourself lucky none of your favorite characters is one.

 

[Kenith]

With him having an established role as Robin's Final Smash? Not gonna happen.
They already programmed him to be part of the move only to throw that away? Doesn't make sense from a developer's point of view. It is a waste of resources.
Same goes for Assist Trophies. Count yourself lucky none of your favorite characters is one.

They never said they had to change Robin's Final Smash.
Same for Assist Trophies, only Assist Trophies could actually be removed from play as long as the character is in use, unlike Chrom.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Chrom might just have a lot of leftover data as a character to be easily made playable. And that Palutena codec conversation talking about him being so similar to Ike and all... I dunno. I just see him as a possibility still.

 

[Frostwraith]

They never said they had to change Robin's Final Smash.
Same for Assist Trophies, only Assist Trophies could actually be removed from play as long as the character is in use, unlike Chrom.

Wouldn't that disturb the gameplay, though?

No matter what character you use, you can summon ANY Assist Trophy. You can't just disturb that, unless you go though great lengths by creating identical Assist Trophies as replacements, which is much easier said than done.

There's a degree of consistency that can't really be tinkered with.

Chrom might just have a lot of leftover data as a character to be easily made playable. And that Palutena codec conversation talking about him being so similar to Ike and all... I dunno. I just see him as a possibility still.

Chrom was ditched for Robin even BEFORE game started development. There are no files for him other than his model and animations for the Final Smash.

The roster has a planning process in which designers discuss possibilities and conceive their moves before programmers and animators start working on them.

There are multiple phases of development. They don't just sit at the computer and start programming stuff. That's not how things are done. There's designing, there's brainstorming before final decisions are taken.

DLC characters will only be characters that don't have a role in this game. Mewtwo fits that. Wolf, Lucas and other cut veterans fit that. Possible newcomers like Dixie Kong or Inkling fit that. Assist Trophies, Poké Balls and other such roles don't.

 

[Kenith]

Wouldn't that disturb the gameplay, though?
No matter what character you use, you can summon ANY Assist Trophy. You can't just disturb that, unless you go though great lengths by creating identical Assist Trophies as replacements, which is much easier said than done.
There's a degree of consistency that can't really be tinkered with.

You can't summon an Assist Trophy at will, though. It's entirely random. You can spend an hour trying to summon one specific Assist Trophy and it will not appear (I know, I have done it). Other times, it might take two tries. It's already really inconsistent, and if that Assist Trophy only appears when that character is not around, it would probably go unnoticed for a long time.
And if you're trying to say it can't happen because it wouldn't be "right", well that is entirely arbitrary and applies to trophies as well.