Character Discussion Thread

[BravadoMan_13]

Still, the dev team had time to add a stage from WWHD considering we have Woolly World, but they didn't.

I think Forsaken Fortress or even Outset Island would be good choices for another Wind Waker stage.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm assuming they went with Woolly World because Yoshi didn't really have a new stage yet (he only had the two Yoshi's Island stages and Zelda had quite a few more stages among the two versions.

I'm guessing that Spirit Train was sort of meant to serve as Toon Link's home stage if you include both versions.

That said, I would have loved another Wind Waker stage for the Wii U version myself, or at the very least, getting the Pirate Ship back.

 

[Sauron_The_Great]

Alright, who wants Nintendo to stop doing clones? Lets see: in the new Smash WIIU/3DS, there are at least 6 clones: Lucina, Dark Pit, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco. (Okay, falco is a semi-clone). 7, if you want to say the soon-to-be DLC Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario. That's a lot.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If you don't want extra padded characters, then sure.

 

[N3ON]

@ N3ON Sorry for the late reply, had dinner and worked on some classwork I procrastinated on.

No problem.

In the hypothetical that the stage was going to return with no Poké Ball Palkia, we wouldn't exactly be having this conversation, now would we? This is why we can't really use what-if's.

Exactly, it's a hypothetical. You mean to tell me I can't say which stages I would rather have over Smashville? Haha, c'mon now.

All we can go by is what is there, which is Palkia the summonable Pokémon. Having Spear Pillar on top of that would be rather redundant.

All we can go by in reality is what's there... but it's a hypothetical, meaning I'm plenty aware it's different than what we ended up with. Hypothetically if Spear Pillar was planned to return, Sakurai probably wouldn't have made Palkia a Pokeball. Who knows? That's not really my point. Is it redundant to have Palkia as both? Sure, a little, not a whole lot more than a bunch of other stuff in the game, but all I'm saying is regardless of Palkia I'd rather have it as a stage over Smashville, and you're not going to get me to change my mind on that any more than I can get you to like Summit.

Possibly. However, bear in mind that Smashville and Town and City are not the same as the likes of the two Pictochats or the two Pokémon Stadiums (which did appear in the same game in the past) where the stage gimmick and overall layout is the same; as I mentioned in an earlier post, Smashville is a stationary stage with a single layout, while Town and City is a stage that shifts between two separate layouts (neither of which are Smashville's layout). There's also the Food-carrying balloons on Smashville, which I don't think T&C has (I don't have the game to verify).

But redundancy isn't limited simply to default overall layout of the stage, we've gotten many stages in the past very similar to Battlefield that don't raise complaints of redundancy, yet stages that have totally different layouts but similar aesthetics and/or similar gimmicks that do. I agree the AC stages are different than those other two pairs, and are slightly different from each other overall, but having both is still redundant in its own right considering there are many factors which can lead to a feeling of redundancy.

The Balloon Fight stage was never tied to a character to begin with unlike Summit (and by association, Icicle Mountain). The only reason those stages existed were due to the Ice Climbers being characters. Without the Climbers, those stages serve no purpose. Whereas Balloon Fight serves its specific purpose as a non-character related stage from the onset.

A stage's main purpose is to act as a place to fight from a specific series, whether or not that series has playable representation isn't crucial. Just because the IC stages only existed due to the ICs in the past doesn't mean that can't change. The only reason Charizard existed as playable was for the Pokemon Trainer's gimmick, now look. The only reason Sheik existed was as a transformation for Zelda. The only reason Polar Bear is an enemy is because of the ICs, but they're not around yet he still is. Where's this arbitrary line to be drawn? Before previous stages being able to exist without accompanying characters but not before previous characters being able to exist without their accompanying characters? Obscure enemies can exist but past stages can't? One could say by your logic without Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pokemon Trainer, Charizard serves no purpose. Except he does, as a character, just like Summit does, as a stage, just like Polar Bear does, as an enemy.

 

[egaddmario]

Alright, who wants Nintendo to stop doing clones? Lets see: in the new Smash WIIU/3DS, there are at least 6 clones: Lucina, Dark Pit, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco. (Okay, falco is a semi-clone). 7, if you want to say the soon-to-be DLC Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario. That's a lot.

Presumably Sakurai doesn't think Ganondorf, Toon Link, or Falco to be clones anymore- they all have mostly different animations now and were built from the ground up. Lucina, Doc, and Dark Pit have the same animations on their moves, and little to no development time, which is what makes them clones. Also, Mewtwo won't be a clone of Lucario- Mewtwo in Melee and Lucario in Brawl/Wii U/3DS are nothing alike.

 

[PSIBoy]

Alright, who wants Nintendo to stop doing clones? Lets see: in the new Smash WIIU/3DS, there are at least 6 clones: Lucina, Dark Pit, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco. (Okay, falco is a semi-clone). 7, if you want to say the soon-to-be DLC Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario. That's a lot.

I take it your definition of a clone is someone with the same exact moves? I take in playstyle into account. Dark Pit is basically the only clone with pretty much no differences. Lucina doesn't have the tipper, and the tipper is big for Marth so a different playstyle is required. Doctor Mario... Besides a different down-b I'm not sure on. You're joking on Ganon, right? Plays completely differently than Captain Falcon (side-b, f-tilt, f-air, slower and far stronger). Toon Link also is far smaller and faster than Link. His playstyle revolves around camping and defensive while Link is offensive. And since when was Mewtwo a clone of Lucario? Oh, I forgot, it's because they share ONE FREAKING MOVE THAT MAKES THEM A CLONE! If Mewtwo is anything like his Melee incarnation (which is highly likely), then he will be a Jigglypuff to Kirby. A different playstyle would equal a properly done clone character at worst and unique at best.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot something. Clone characters also take far less time than a completely unique character or a veteran. It would be easy to pad out the roster with clone characters, especially if they were alts to begin with. Just construct the art (if not an alt), give voice clips (if not an alt), then change up their moveset ever so slightly, even only damage and knockback. There, bam. Far faster basing a character off of another instead of porting data which probably has to be updated, altered, and debugged.

Also, I did not mean any offense by my response. It's just that I had an inclination to defend two of my mains (Ganon and TL) because I know they play completely different (and have some moves which are completely different) and I'm just sick of the Lucario-Mewtwo clone/replacement thing.

 

[Deleted member]

No problem.


Exactly, it's a hypothetical. You mean to tell me I can't say which stages I would rather have over Smashville? Haha, c'mon now.

No, this was only addressing the point of Spear Pillar not being redundant with Palkia.

All we can go by in reality is what's there... but it's a hypothetical, meaning I'm plenty aware it's different than what we ended up with. Hypothetically if Spear Pillar was planned to return, Sakurai probably wouldn't have made Palkia a Pokeball. Who knows? That's not really my point. Is it redundant to have Palkia as both? Sure, a little, not a whole lot more than a bunch of other stuff in the game, but all I'm saying is regardless of Palkia I'd rather have it as a stage over Smashville, and you're not going to get me to change my mind on that any more than I can get you to like Summit.

I actually am not intending on changing your mind. I'm just trying to make clear of the potential issue with the concept.
If you're well aware of the situation and it doesn't matter to you, it really doesn't matter to me.

But redundancy isn't limited simply to default overall layout of the stage, we've gotten many stages in the past very similar to Battlefield that don't raise complaints of redundancy, yet stages that have totally different layouts but similar aesthetics and/or similar gimmicks that do. I agree the AC stages are different than those other two pairs, and are slightly different from each other overall, but having both is still redundant in its own right considering there are many factors which can lead to a feeling of redundancy.

This is true. Hell, in my perspective, even if it was Tortimer Island from the 3DS instead of Smashville, I'd find it redundant on the basis of Animal Crossing not really "needing" a 2nd stage to begin with. I just don't agree with the "they're practically the same stage" logic people (not you at least from what I've seen) have been using.

A stage's main purpose is to act as a place to fight from a specific series, whether or not that series has playable representation isn't crucial. Just because the IC stages only existed due to the ICs in the past doesn't mean that can't change. The only reason Charizard existed as playable was for the Pokemon Trainer's gimmick, now look. The only reason Sheik existed was as a transformation for Zelda. The only reason Polar Bear is an enemy is because of the ICs, but they're not around yet he still is. Where's this arbitrary line to be drawn? Before previous stages being able to exist without accompanying characters but not before previous characters being able to exist without their accompanying characters? Obscure enemies can exist but past stages can't? One could say by your logic without Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pokemon Trainer, Charizard serves no purpose. Except he does, as a character, just like Summit does, as a stage, just like Polar Bear does, as an enemy.

Unfortunately, due to the number of points being made here, I need to break each down individually, so excuse the following wall of text.

"A stage's main purpose is to act as a place to fight from a specific series, whether or not that series has playable representation isn't crucial."
Yes and no. Historically throughout the Smash franchise, stages from outside Smash have been directly tied to franchises with playable characters with very limited exceptions starting with Brawl.
Those exceptions show that a series doesn't entirely need a character to have a stage, but they are, again, exceptions, not the rule.
These exceptions can be summed up among the following two categories:
-Franchises with either no "characters" to speak of or no viable characters to use (Animal Crossing prior to Smash 4/PictoChat/Electroplankton/Balloon Fight/Nintendogs)
-"Sub-franchises" for an existing character(s) (Wrecking Crew for Mario/Luigi and Find Mii/Tomodachi Life/Wii Sports/Miiverse/Pilotwings (as of Resort) for Mii Fighters)
Neither of which Ice Climber falls under. Instead, it's a franchise that had a character (or pair of characters, technically) that had the misfortune of being axed for hardware issues.

"Just because the IC stages only existed due to the ICs in the past doesn't mean that can't change."
That is correct. It isn't impossible for change to happen.
However, the possibility of change in the future is irrelevant, as in the present, this change did not happen. Instead, there isn't an Ice Climber stage as a result of there no longer being any Ice Climber characters.
Aside from that, it may not even change in the future; we could very likely get not only an Ice Climber stage in the next game (new or otherwise) but the Ice Climbers' return alongside it.

"The only reason Charizard existed as playable was for the Pokémon Trainer's gimmick, now look."
Except Charizard's status as a playable character in Brawl was not dependent on Pokémon Trainer. This is where you're comparing apples to oranges.
Whereas Icicle Mountain and Summit would never have been stages without the Ice Climbers, Charizard still could have been a playable character if Sakurai didn't think to incorporate Pokémon Trainer due to Sakurai's interest in Charizard specifically (according to people who've read through the Melee questionnaire and to the Famitsu 2008 article which I now have saved to my computer).
Swap "Charizard" for "Ivysaur", and the statement is correct. The comparison becomes even more apt considering the outcome is the same (No Climbers = No stage; No Trainer = No Ivysaur).

"The only reason Sheik existed was as a transformation for Zelda."
Actually, you can't really say this.
Judging by how both Zelda and Sheik were equal in requests on the pre-Melee poll in Japan (though both paled in comparison to Ganon/Ganondorf), Sheik being revealed first with Zelda being revealed much later, Zelda sharing some of Peach's animations, and Sheik being the first time any Zelda had shown signs of combat potential (though off-screen and through artwork), it's reasonable to believe that Zelda being playable at all in Melee was directly because of Sheik, not the other way around.

"The only reason Polar Bear is an enemy is because of the IC's, but they're not around yet he still is."
This is incorrect. The Polar Bear is an enemy for the following:
-Serves well as a general enemy (Just like in Melee)
-Doesn't require much processing power for movement
-Uniqueness
-Helps maintain balance between enemy size classes and strength classes
-Considerably low workload (considering the model is recycled from Brawl)
-Availability

As in, the qualities looked for during the selection process. None of which are "comes from franchise with a character", though it is true that most of them are that aren't from Subspace Emissary.
Or are you going to try to argue for the Sneaky Spirits being in because of the Chorus Kids when we don't have any legitimate evidence of them being planned yet?

"Where's this arbitrary line to be drawn? Before previous stages being able to exist without accompanying characters but not before previous characters being able to exist without their accompanying characters? Obscure enemies can exist but past stages can't? One could say by your logic without Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pokemon Trainer, Charizard serves no purpose. Except he does, as a character, just like Summit does, as a stage, just like Polar Bear does, as an enemy."
Already covered all of this. Though it seems by now you're comparing apples to carrots, no offense.

 

[Lilfut]

I've thought about it, and I'm pretty sure New Pork City got cut because 8 players + Ultimate Chimera just wasn't happening, and they didn't want to bring it back without making it 8PS-compatible.

 

[Xzsmmc]

The only clone I have a beef with (besides Dark Pit and that's more for his inclusion rather than cloniness) is Ganondorf. There is still no excuse for him to be a Falcon knockoff.

 

[Kenith]

The only clone I have a beef with (besides Dark Pit and that's more for his inclusion rather than cloniness) is Ganondorf. There is still no excuse for him to be a Falcon knockoff.

The worst part is, they could have tried to go for a middle ground, maybe make him still a melee powerhouse but change some of the actual moves (like the god-awful uptilt) maybe give him that cape reflector like in PM, or give him a new moveset altogether and give the old one to Black Shadow, which would kill two birds with one stone.
But, they didn't. He will always be a reminder of Melee's padding of the roster.

I like how Sakurai says he didn't change Ganondorf and other clones to not "alienate" past Smash players, then proceeds to cut six completely unique characters from Brawl and give many characters major changes to their moveset.

 

[Frostwraith]

I like how Sakurai says he didn't change Ganondorf and other clones to not "alienate" past Smash players, then proceeds to cut six completely unique characters from Brawl and give many characters major changes to their moveset.

>Implying Sakurai cut characters on purpose

He had always stated he wanted to bring everyone back for exactly the same reason as he doesn't change Ganondorf: to not alienate fans. He has stated how he knows every character has its fans and knows that to cut them would be doing a disservice to them. However, he stated that development time is limited and there's only so much content he can add in the game.

Many game developers have to unfortunately drop ideas from their projects due to factors outside of their control. This is the harsh reality of game development.

He cut six unique characters from Brawl, but still most of the Brawl roster is back. Bringing back 33 out of 39 characters is actually quite impressive, considering time constraints.

In their stead, we got 15 unique newcomers and 3 last minute clones (one of them being a returning character from Melee that missed the boat for Brawl) for a total of 51 characters. Yes, we lost 6 unique characters, but we got a lot of new characters in compensation. That's a very fair trade, in all honesty.

On top of that, Mewtwo will be distributed as DLC, raising the number to 52. Considering how Sakurai stressed many times how developing a single character (except for last-minute clones) is tons of work in which a lot of man-power and resources are spent, this is an impressive number.

I dislike cuts as anyone does, but let's be reasonable and face the facts as they should be faced.

Last but not least, if those major changes to movesets you speak of are what was done to Bowser and Zero Suit Samus (for example), let me remind you that they keep the same playstyle, which is the most important factor. Switching a few moves around is one thing, but another is to revamp the entire moveset.

 

[AEMehr]

I like how Sakurai says he didn't change Ganondorf and other clones to not "alienate" past Smash players, then proceeds to cut six completely unique characters from Brawl and give many characters major changes to their moveset.

The only move that they would need to change is wizard's foot. Ganondorf is pretty good as he is to be honest, though Warlock Punch could change too I guess. The traditional Zelda volleyball would be a must in that situation.

 

[Spazzy_D]

So.... about Nintendo's relationship with Konami. Have we discussed the official Metal Gear 3DS theme that is on the way?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So.... about Nintendo's relationship with Konami. Have we discussed the official Metal Gear 3DS theme that is on the way?

Interesting. Then again, I have had my own private assumptions for some time that Snake, had he been in, could have been used to advertise the recent 3DS version of MGS3.

 

[Sauron_The_Great]

Alright, who wants Nintendo to stop doing clones? Lets see: in the new Smash WIIU/3DS, there are at least 6 clones: Lucina, Dark Pit, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco. (Okay, falco is a semi-clone). 7, if you want to say the soon-to-be DLC Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario. That's a lot.

I take it your definition of a clone is someone with the same exact moves? I take in playstyle into account. Dark Pit is basically the only clone with pretty much no differences. Lucina doesn't have the tipper, and the tipper is big for Marth so a different playstyle is required. Doctor Mario... Besides a different down-b I'm not sure on. You're joking on Ganon, right? Plays completely differently than Captain Falcon (side-b, f-tilt, f-air, slower and far stronger). Toon Link also is far smaller and faster than Link. His playstyle revolves around camping and defensive while Link is offensive. And since when was Mewtwo a clone of Lucario? Oh, I forgot, it's because they share ONE FREAKING MOVE THAT MAKES THEM A CLONE! If Mewtwo is anything like his Melee incarnation (which is highly likely), then he will be a Jigglypuff to Kirby. A different playstyle would equal a properly done clone character at worst and unique at best.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot something. Clone characters also take far less time than a completely unique character or a veteran. It would be easy to pad out the roster with clone characters, especially if they were alts to begin with. Just construct the art (if not an alt), give voice clips (if not an alt), then change up their moveset ever so slightly, even only damage and knockback. There, bam. Far faster basing a character off of another instead of porting data which probably has to be updated, altered, and debugged.

Also, I did not mean any offense by my response. It's just that I had an inclination to defend two of my mains (Ganon and TL) because I know they play completely different (and have some moves which are completely different) and I'm just sick of the Lucario-Mewtwo clone/replacement thing.

I'm a Ganon main, and i like TL too, but Ganondorf has essentially the same move set with about 4 differences. That's not much. TL has every move shared with regular link. I'll say that they're semi-clones.

 

[Sauron_The_Great]

>Implying Sakurai cut characters on purpose

He had always stated he wanted to bring everyone back for exactly the same reason as he doesn't change Ganondorf: to not alienate fans. He has stated how he knows every character has its fans and knows that to cut them would be doing a disservice to them. However, he stated that development time is limited and there's only so much content he can add in the game.

Many game developers have to unfortunately drop ideas from their projects due to factors outside of their control. This is the harsh reality of game development.

He cut six unique characters from Brawl, but still most of the Brawl roster is back. Bringing back 33 out of 39 characters is actually quite impressive, considering time constraints.

In their stead, we got 15 unique newcomers and 3 last minute clones (one of them being a returning character from Melee that missed the boat for Brawl) for a total of 51 characters. Yes, we lost 6 unique characters, but we got a lot of new characters in compensation. That's a very fair trade, in all honesty.

On top of that, Mewtwo will be distributed as DLC, raising the number to 52. Considering how Sakurai stressed many times how developing a single character (except for last-minute clones) is tons of work in which a lot of man-power and resources are spent, this is an impressive number.

I dislike cuts as anyone does, but let's be reasonable and face the facts as they should be faced.

Last but not least, if those major changes to movesets you speak of are what was done to Bowser and Zero Suit Samus (for example), let me remind you that they keep the same playstyle, which is the most important factor. Switching a few moves around is one thing, but another is to revamp the entire moveset.

So, Sakurai should use the 6 cut characters as DLC?

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Complaints about clones don't get anyone anywhere, plain and simple.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Alright, who wants Nintendo to stop doing clones? Lets see: in the new Smash WIIU/3DS, there are at least 6 clones: Lucina, Dark Pit, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco. (Okay, falco is a semi-clone). 7, if you want to say the soon-to-be DLC Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario. That's a lot.

I'm a Ganon main, and i like TL too, but Ganondorf has essentially the same move set with about 4 differences. That's not much. TL has every move shared with regular link. I'll say that they're semi-clones.

That's not true. Toon Link have a ton of unique moves such as his side, neutral, back, and up air as well as his dash attack. His specials functions differently, too. Most importantly, though, both of those clones have weight and speed differences that make them play very differently then there source characters.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Icicle Mountain was the beginning of a bad stage gimmick Sakurai still doesn't realize is a bad stage gimmick.

At least it never returned.

cough cough Rumble Falls cough

Though repressing what you've said, we are all glad that terrible stage from a terrible game never returned. I would have accepted an interactive Donkey Konga stage or something from the Paon games over that upscaling, trap filled, festering pile of Kong dung. But this was to be expected since not every stage in the Smash franchise is bound to be enjoyable or tournament legal (In which few stages in later Smash games fell in that category).

 

[Lilfut]

I always liked autoscrollers, but... vertical autoscrollers are a big no, yeah.
Pac-Land is actually one of my favorite stages in this game. Wish they had Rainbow Cruise, too. I wish all the other autoscrollers weren't limited to 3DS, honestly - I really liked 3D Land and even Dream Land.
There sure are a lot of autoscroller Lands, huh?

 

[Frostwraith]

So, Sakurai should use the 6 cut characters as DLC?

It's not out of question.

The only characters less likely to be in are Ice Climbers (due to technical issues) and Snake (due to his 3rd party status).

Complaints about clones don't get anyone anywhere, plain and simple.

Indeed.

I actually don't mind clones at all. It's more characters to play as. I can't see how that is a bad thing.

So.... about Nintendo's relationship with Konami. Have we discussed the official Metal Gear 3DS theme that is on the way?

That's interesting...

But I doubt it means anything when it comes to Smash.

 

[Baskerville]

The only move that they would need to change is wizard's foot. Ganondorf is pretty good as he his to be honest, though Warlock Punch could change too I guess. The traditional Zelda volleyball would be a must in that situation.

The U-Tilt that lasts till the ends of time is another move that should've been gone. Out of all the moves they kept for Dorf, that one is where I legitimately ask "Why?"

 

[Lilfut]

Ganon's utilt can be useful for edgeguarding. It's a very niche use, though.

 

[Frostwraith]

The U-Tilt that lasts till the ends of time is another move that should've been gone. Out of all the moves they kept for Dorf, that one is where I legitimately ask "Why?"

I've KO'd people with that move before. lol

 

[Baskerville]

I've KO'd people with that move before. lol

People that foolishly roll or airdodge into it... like, good job dummies.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

The U-Tilt that lasts till the ends of time is another move that should've been gone. Out of all the moves they kept for Dorf, that one is where I legitimately ask "Why?"

This is just my personal opinion, but I think the only reason they kept it is that nobody else is getting a tilt move that devastating. Kinda like how only Luigi has a taunt that hurts, only Little Mac has a power meter, and how only Yoshi had an egg as a shield. Y'know what I mean?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's not out of question.

The only characters less likely to be in are Ice Climbers (due to technical issues) and Snake (due to his 3rd party status).

I also expect planned semi-clone newcomers to be part of hypothetical packs. Keep in mind that it wasn't just veterans that were planned for Brawl.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I also expect planned semi-clone newcomers to be part of hypothetical packs. Keep in mind that it wasn't just veterans that were planned for Brawl.

And yet, none of the planned brawl newcomers made it into Smash 4 either.

 

[Frostwraith]

And yet, none of the planned brawl newcomers made it into Smash 4 either.

Villager and Miis were considered back then, though, so it's not like scrapped ideas from Brawl weren't used for Smash 4.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Villager and Miis were considered back then, though, so it's not like scrapped ideas from Brawl weren't used for Smash 4.

Got a source for that? All I read that were scrapped were Mewtwo, Roy, Dr Mario, Toon Zelda, Tetra, Plusle and Minun, and Dixie Kong. It didn't say anything about Mii's or an Animal Crossing character.

 

[Frostwraith]

Got a source for that? All I read that were scrapped were Mewtwo, Roy, Dr Mario, Toon Zelda, Tetra, Plusle and Minun, and Dixie Kong. It didn't say anything about Mii's or an Animal Crossing character.

My source is Sakurai himself.

I believe he talks about the Miis on the E3 2014 presentation and how he considered them for Brawl. He said similar statements about the Villager, one on Brawl's Iwata Asks interview and he brought the subject once more when he was revealed for Smash 4.

What you're talking about are unused Brawl files, which also suggest planned, but scrapped characters.

Also Plusle and Minun may have not been planned at all. Pra_mai is ambiguous at best.

@GoldenYuiitusin has elaborated on this before: it stems from the Japanese names and inconsistent romanization within the file name itself.

This table ought to explain things better than words:

English name|Japanese name (Katakana)|Japanese name (Transliterated into romaji)|Japanese name (Official usage)
Plusle|プラスル|Purasuru|Prasle
Minun|マイナン|Mainan|Minun
Charizard|リザードン|Rizaadon|Lizardon
Lucario|ルカリオ|Rukario|Lucario

I used Lucario and Charizard as reference to how, both in internal and external naming, the official Japanese names are used, which "pra_mai" is at odds with. If it were to use the official names, it would have been "pra_min".

But I'm diverging too much from the original subject. Plusle and Minun being planned is something dubious and shouldn't be taken as granted. The other characters are more clear, though.

 

[Baskerville]

This is just my personal opinion, but I think the only reason they kept it is that nobody else is getting a tilt move that devastating. Kinda like how only Luigi has a taunt that hurts, only Little Mac has a power meter, and how only Yoshi had an egg as a shield. Y'know what I mean?

Mega Man's U-Tilt, by comparison, is more devestating, and more reliable. That **** kills mad early.
Plus, Greninja's Down Taunt does damage to people as well, so it's not really exclusive to Luigi.

 

[egaddmario]

My source is Sakurai himself.

I believe he talks about the Miis on the E3 2014 presentation and how he considered them for Brawl. He said similar statements about the Villager, one on Brawl's Iwata Asks interview and he brought the subject once more when he was revealed for Smash 4.

What you're talking about are unused Brawl files, which also suggest planned, but scrapped characters.

Also Plusle and Minun may have not been planned at all. Pra_mai is ambiguous at best.

@GoldenYuiitusin has elaborated on this before: it stems from the Japanese names and inconsistent romanization within the file name itself.

This table ought to explain things better than words:

English name|Japanese name (Katakana)|Japanese name (Transliterated into romaji)|Japanese name (Official usage)
Plusle|プラスル|Purasuru|Prasle
Minun|マイナン|Mainan|Minun
Charizard|リザードン|Rizaadon|Lizardon
Lucario|ルカリオ|Rukario|Lucario

I used Lucario and Charizard as reference to how, both in internal and external naming, the official Japanese names are used, which "pra_mai" is at odds with. If it were to use the official names, it would have been "pra_min".

But I'm diverging too much from the original subject. Plusle and Minun being planned is something dubious and shouldn't be taken as granted. The other characters are more clear, though.

We also know Miyamoto went to Sakurai and asked for Pac-Man during Brawl.

 

[JaidynReiman]

And yet, none of the planned brawl newcomers made it into Smash 4 either.

Planned =/= Considered. Chrom was considered for this game, too. The "planned" Brawl newcomers were cut part-way into development. Some might've even been cut right at the last second, while others were cut earlier into development. For this game, we don't know how many were cut, we just know that Ice Climbers were in the game, and Chrom was considered (but never put into production).

 

[PSIBoy]

Alright, who wants Nintendo to stop doing clones? Lets see: in the new Smash WIIU/3DS, there are at least 6 clones: Lucina, Dark Pit, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Falco. (Okay, falco is a semi-clone). 7, if you want to say the soon-to-be DLC Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario. That's a lot.

I'm a Ganon main, and i like TL too, but Ganondorf has essentially the same move set with about 4 differences. That's not much. TL has every move shared with regular link. I'll say that they're semi-clones.

Clone characters also take far less time than a completely unique character or a veteran. It would be easy to pad out the roster with clone characters, especially if they were alts to begin with. Just construct the art (if not an alt), give voice clips (if not an alt), then change up their moveset ever so slightly, even only damage and knockback. There, bam. Far faster basing a character off of another instead of porting data which probably has to be updated, altered, and debugged.

It also take a up a year to complete a full character from the ground up. For veterans it takes shorter, but they still are longer than clones. Heck, Melee was only planned with 20 characters, and they added five clones to pad out the roster. Same case here: 45 characters initially to 48.

 

[JaidynReiman]

It also take a up a year to complete a full character from the ground up. For veterans it takes shorter, but they still are longer than clones. Heck, Melee was only planned with 20 characters, and they added five clones to pad out the roster. Same case here: 45 characters initially to 48.

They added six clones in Melee, and this game was planned with at least 46 characters. They might've planned more as well, but realized they couldn't handle them all. Brawl, for example, was planned to have more characters but were cut for various reasons.

 

[PSIBoy]

They added six clones in Melee, and this game was planned with at least 46 characters. They might've planned more as well, but realized they couldn't handle them all. Brawl, for example, was planned to have more characters but were cut for various reasons.

Oh, okay. Well, thank you for clarifying for me. However, my point still stands that clone characters still pad out the roster.

 

[Lilfut]

Oh, okay. Well, thank you for clarifying for me. However, my point still stands that clone characters still pad out the roster.

And?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh, okay. Well, thank you for clarifying for me. However, my point still stands that clone characters still pad out the roster.

Thats not really a bad thing bro.

Would you rather have nothing there?