Character Discussion Thread

[JaidynReiman]

Thank god

I hate it when developers plan for paid DLC before the game releases.

This, exactly.


All it means is he's not considering it until the game is fully completed. But I'd say its almost guaranteed there are characters other than Mewtwo and Ice Climbers that had been in development but cut before the game released. DLC is the prime opportunity to finish any such characters. The game isn't even out yet, the only reason we're speculating DLC is because we already know everything that's in the game.

I'm kinda more worried about getting the game and unlocking all the trophies, then later looking forward to what plans are in store for other future Nintendo franchises. If it takes longer for Smash DLC to come out, we could very well have old franchises continuing and characters who have been absent for a while coming back that people are calling "irrelevant" right now.

Wait, am I reading this wrong?
He sort of made it sound like he didn't want any DLC ever.

Mewtwo already is DLC. All he's saying is he's focusing on finishing the elements in the game first. And we know there are more things that are being added through patches already anyway.

 

[Arcadenik]

They are common because they are likely and popular. Plus demand.

Common? Like how commonly requested Ridley, K. Rool, Takamaru, Mach Rider, etc. were because they were likely and popular?

 

[Lilfut]

Mach Rider was commonly requested?

 

[LasermasterA]

Common? Like how commonly requested Ridley, K. Rool, Takamaru, Mach Rider, etc. were because they were likely and popular?

Common as they had a fairly fine fan following which alone boosted their chances. They are not in the game as of now but some of them have good chances for DLC.

Although Nintendo/Sakurai did troll a lot of the fanbases.

No not Mach Rider. Although he was in some "leaks".

 

[Arcadenik]

Popular =/= Likely
If popularity was the only thing that mattered, we would not have gotten in the first place.

So, IMO, people convince themselves that certain characters are likely because they were requested often.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Did you guys see the news?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Did you guys see the news?

Are you referring to the statement that Sakurai said DLC is not being planned at this time which was posted on the previous page? The exact same thing he said a short while before Mewtwo was confirmed?

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Are you referring to the statement that Sakurai said DLC is not being planned at this time which was posted on the previous page? The exact same thing he said a short while before Mewtwo was confirmed?

Yep.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Mach Rider was commonly requested?

Commonly requested when it came to retro choices.

Does anyone know if Roy is still heavily desired in Japan after two Fire Emblem newcomers were announced? I have no particular interest in Roy one way or another but he was (along with Mewtwo) one of the most requested over there, something we always need to keep in mind.

He's still popular, but expectations for him being playable sliced in half after Lucina's and Robin's reveals.

 

[LasermasterA]

Popular =/= Likely
If popularity was the only thing that mattered, we would not have gotten in the first place.

So, IMO, people convince themselves that certain characters are likely because they were requested often.

But it does matter. When did I say it was the only thing that mattered?

 

[Arcadenik]

"Common as they had a fairly fine fan following which alone boosted their chances." You didn't say it directly but it was implied, especially with the word "alone".

 

[LasermasterA]

Alone as in it was one MAJOR factor that helped boost their chances.

Obviously they are other things that matter as well such as the said character's future potential, nostalgic value and Sakurai bias.

 

[Substitution]

I don't know. I mean, if popularity really meant a lot in the long run, we would have a vastly different roster than the one we have now.

 

[GunGunW]

I think there are characters that aren't very popular that can make it in but popular choices make up the majority.

 

[cmbsfm]

If DLC wasn't worked on before release, then I doubt captain toad and inkling. They would have had to planned and worked on them in order to get them out to "market" their games.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The solution to Captain Toad is to clearly have him "jump" by using a rising platform that comes out of nowhere.

Needs more random and half-brained choices based solely on hipster thought, right?

No, you don't get it, Golden, Young Link totally has a plausible chance! Everyone knows that a character that would be a 2nd Child Link and a 3rd Link, being aesthetically extremely similar to Link and Toon Link, is totally the kind of choice with enough appeal to be able to market MM

Spoiler

 

[JaidynReiman]

If DLC wasn't worked on before release, then I doubt captain toad and inkling. They would have had to planned and worked on them in order to get them out to "market" their games.

I think that Inkling might be considered if Splatoon sells well, however, they'd likely start DLC around February at the latest. By that point they've probably already decided characters based on upcoming releases, so Inkling would be a lot more iffy unless they planned additional DLC after the first batch.


If they don't start DLC by February it probably isn't happening, because I don't really see Smash getting DLC two years out. If they do an expansion it'd probably be a 1 year expansion. If a first expansion was completed, a second might be considered, but if they don't do an expansion by next year I highly doubt they'll revisit it in two years.

But at the same time, they are planning to extend the life of the game through balance patches...

 

[Kenith]

I don't know. I mean, if popularity really meant a lot in the long run, we would have a vastly different roster than the one we have now.

But we did get Shulk, Palutena, ****ing Mega Man, Lucina, Pac-Man, and Miis.
If popularity was that irrelevant, well, those characters sans Palutena and Miis would likely not be in.
And that is in a game where Sakurai went out of his way to say he was basically phasing out hardcore fans' requests.
In Brawl the roster's newcomers nailed a **** ton of really big numbers.
The roster would have different if popularity dictated everything, sure, but if also could've been really bad.

 

[Substitution]

But we did get Shulk, Palutena, ****ing Mega Man, Lucina, Pac-Man, and Miis.
If popularity was that irrelevant, well, those characters sans Palutena and Miis would likely not be in.
And that is in a game where Sakurai went out of his way to say he was basically phasing out hardcore fans' requests.
In Brawl the roster's newcomers nailed a **** ton of really big numbers.
The roster would have different if popularity dictated everything, sure, but if also could've been really bad.

Sure, and granted I'm not saying popularity is next to nothing when it comes to someone getting in, but it's not the deciding factor.

 

[Argos]

I think it's worth noting that if DLC happens it's likely that popularity will be more important than in the main game. It's easier to add a fringe retro character in a game when you've already added enough new characters to get people excited, when you have to get people to explicitly buy characters you have to know what people are willing to pay for. Now, by 'popularity' I don't really mean 'popularity among people who post on forums' but it can definitely be an issue.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think it's worth noting that if DLC happens it's likely that popularity will be more important than in the main game. It's easier to add a fringe retro character in a game when you've already added enough new characters to get people excited, when you have to get people to explicitly buy characters you have to know what people are willing to pay for. Now, by 'popularity' I don't really mean 'popularity among people who post on forums' but it can definitely be an issue.

That's why when gauging popularity, most tend to take to the internet, see who else is being talked about and being rated high in polls, and looking up game sales and seeing what popular franchises are left out there to be considered.

 

[Lilfut]

Since when is Shulk popular? Seriously, I had never heard of him before Smash, and literally none of my IRL friends have played Xenoblade.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Since when is Shulk popular? Seriously, I had never heard of him before Smash, and literally none of my IRL friends have played Xenoblade.

According to what we've heard, Shulk was one of the most popular requests in Japan. He was much more obscure in the west and didn't become popular until Gematsu really.

EDIT: At the same time, Operation Rainfall certainly made him fairly popular in the west as well, as it actually helped get the game over here. Although according to PR it didn't.

 

[False Sense]

Popularity is a factor. That's undeniable. Is it everything? No, but it is a factor.

 

[Strofirko]

What "popularity" are we talking about?
Inside the smash community,or outside of it?

 

[JaidynReiman]

What "popularity" are we talking about?
Inside the smash community,or outside of it?

Does it matter?


Outside the Smash community, no one cares about specific characters.

 

[BluePikmin11]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11...smash-wii-3ds?abthid=546d0b2797bb8b3344000030

"As for why Mewtwo isn't paid content from the start, releasing that character is an experiment meant to act as a foothold in content distribution; thus it's simply meant as part of the service we're providing to gamers."

It's up to you guys.

What "popularity" are we talking about?
Inside the smash community,or outside of it?

Popularity outside of it, but most people take Smash community popularity as general overall popularity.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Shulk must be an absolute nobody then, eh Blue?

 

[Spazzy_D]

Nintendo wants you to buy both Smash games. Mewtwo is incentive for people to buy both Smash games. It would be counter productive if a Nintendo representative were to say that you could purchase Mewtwo for a minimal fee prior to the launch of both games.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Nintendo wants you to buy both Smash games. Mewtwo is incentive for people to buy both Smash games. It would be counter productive if a Nintendo representative were to say that you could purchase Mewtwo for a minimal fee prior to the launch of both games.

They probably won't even announce it until after Mewtwo is released.

 

[Strofirko]

The terms of "popularity" is a question we have to dissecate rather than make precipitate declarations.
For example:
In the question of retro series:
Are characters like Mach Rider or Lip very requested inside the smash community? Yes.
Are they well known for someone else or a regular old school gamer? No.
Is someone like DHD high requested? No.
Is the character well known for someone else or a regular old school gamer? Yes.
Don't get me wrong,the prior characters would have amazing movesets, but the kinda appeal for other people can expand to new horizons,and the prior character could be lacking for a regular player into the point of view of Sakurai.
Now getting into series specifics:
Fire Emblem Awakening:
Amazing game,tons of characters to cover,and a lot of them very popular,but just one of them was high requested or "popular" inside the smash community:Chrom.
Why? The infamous "Lords Only" tabuu implanted unintentionally on the smash community.
Was Robin popular on the game? Of course he/she was,but was left behind because of stupid reasons.
On the end Robin appealed to the many of the fire emblem fans that it potential was ignored before.
Expanding the subject:
Almost noone cared about the Miis,but now they are one of the selling factors of the game:"Now anyone can join the fight!",they are popular,but were overlooked before,because they wouldn't bring nothing new to the table.
In the case of animal crossing,Tom Nook was the most requested character on smash community,but in the end of day the most simplistic moves of villager representing the series,appealed even more the fans of the series.
Conclusion:
Of course high requested characters like Palutena,Little Mac,Pacman,Megaman gets into,even mewtwo after the high demand is coming back,but sakurai likes to study characters that have some kind of appeal on their way to go back and forth,including movesets and popular faces for everyone,like bowser jr. in his mecha attacks or greeninja on his style of fighting.
This just has to be studied more,next time we start predicting a next roster of newcomers on the future.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Sakurai on Ridley:

“I definitely know that Ridley’s a much-anticipated name for fans, but if we made Ridley as a fighter, it wouldn’t be Ridley any longer,” Sakurai told IGN in an email interview. “It’d have to be shrunk down, or its wings reduced in size, or be unable to fly around freely.”

“Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to,” he continued. “If I don’t stick to that thought, then we’d have to lower the quality or break the balance of the game. Something that goes way off spec could break the entire game.”

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11...ed&utm_campaign=Feed: ign/news (IGN All News)

 

[Strofirko]

Sakurai on Ridley:

“I definitely know that Ridley’s a much-anticipated name for fans, but if we made Ridley as a fighter, it wouldn’t be Ridley any longer,” Sakurai told IGN in an email interview. “It’d have to be shrunk down, or its wings reduced in size, or be unable to fly around freely.”

“Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to,” he continued. “If I don’t stick to that thought, then we’d have to lower the quality or break the balance of the game. Something that goes way off spec could break the entire game.”

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11...ed&utm_campaign=Feed: ign/news (IGN All News)

I have 2 things to say about this subject:

First:On a different dimension Sakurai decided to put Charizard rather than Cap.Falcon on 64,and with this we got Charidley rather than Falcondorf on melee.

Second:I have a different point of view of many ridley detractors,it isn't because of bigness or rampaging generic dragon,and my opinion how he works on the metroid series mainly on his boss battles,he is a character that most of the time is in the air,breathing fire and using tail attacks,and he depends a lot from the arena,very different from other villains in the likes of bowser,since I am hearing about the plans of bringing him via mods in brawl,I would like to check more about the ridley supporters ideas on the future.

I won't extend to this any longer since will just add fuel to flaming,but that's my opinion...

 

[Burruni]

As someone who has gone through the Metroid franchise and far preferred Other M over the Prime series.... I never got the excitement for Ridley as a playable character in Smash. I wanna get this out as to why/

1. He was never the final boss, that ultimate challenge at the end of the game. In practically every game in which he appears, Ridley is that second-to-last boss that shows just how powerful you have become as a standard measurement across the games. He has been and probably always will be the symbol of terror as that giant hulking draconic Space Pirate that is the one thing between you and that last big upgrade.
2. Unlike the other villains who have been scaled down (Bowser and Ganondorf), Ridley has always been bigger than Samus by LEAGUES outside of the 8-bit encounter in Metroid 1 which can be removed from argument by the fight's remastering in Zero Mission. Bowser had been contorted to a more humane size by the spin-off Mario games and the original Ganondorf was about a head taller than Link as an adult.
3. Unlike Bowser and Ganondorf... Ridley doesn't scale well. If you took Ridley and scaled him down to Bowser's size, he often looks like an anorexic Charizard that lacks the raw intimidation that he gets only due to his size because his dimensions... aren't that of a hulking brute that CAN scale as well in frame that Bowser or Ganondorf proved. The standard Ridley design's neck looks like blips of Pikachu's quick-attack when scaled down to a fighter and the Other M design which fans call Roidley "scales" better as a design but is one that isn't nearly as popular or good to look at in the first place. People argued that the Melee intro of him being shown worked well enough.... but here's what that model REALLY looks like.
   Spoiler

   This just isn't intimidating.
4. Ridley... has no character to him. He's just THERE. The manga makes him show a bit more sadistic in depth and Other M proves that he's a good hunter from instinct... but that's it. Bowser is the maniacal Koopa King who has had a very expanded personality through the Mario RPG series and Ganondorf through his encounters and Demise has a man behind the power. Ridley is this feral monster with immense power that has become a leader of the space Pirates. Him as a boss has kept this true.
5. As a boss, Ridley has basically grappled, spat fire, and flew. His tail ironically was far more of a dangerous hitbox than most of his arsenal. Ridley as the boss encaptures his experience in Metroid perfectly and that's more than DK fans have gotten for King K. Rool or Star Fox fans by Sakurai only acknowledging the worst variant of Andross. Hell, the only things accurate about the Yellow Devil boss is how he moves and HOW ABSURDLY ANNOYING HE IS. Remember the random Rayquaza boss in Subspace Emmisary? NO way does that represent fight from Pokemon in any variant properly. The fact that he's been properly encaptured in this role is better than a lot of series have gotten.
6. Metroid as a series feels encaptured in representation with just the two Samus..es as playable characters, the enemies in Smash Run, Mother Brain AT, and the Ridley boss... in my opinion.

 

[Kalimdori]

Oh goody. Thanks Sakurai. You just painted a target on me and every other Ridley fan.

Excuse me while I go hid from society for a few months...

 

[Xzsmmc]

Well, there goes any hope for Ridley for any game with Sakurai at the helm. I can't believe the too big idiots were right on the money with his thought process. How arrogant can you get, being the arbiter on what a character's 'true' self is?

Now we watch as Ridley's fans get harassed for the nine billionth time.

 

[Substitution]

Well I can't wait for the reactions.
You'll have the detractors and the salty fans going at each other over a dead topic that should have never been unearthed.
Today is a "great" day to be a Smash fun, truly...

 

[BluePikmin11]

“Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to,” he continued. “If I don’t stick to that thought, then we’d have to lower the quality or break the balance of the game. Something that goes way off spec could break the entire game.”

If there's anything important in the article to bring up, it's this quote. Sakurai's not going give Toad an Ice Flower or other item power ups to make him unique nor is Bandanna Dee going to command Waddle Dees in his moveset, just stick to accurately portraying the character.

 

[Xzsmmc]

If there's anything important in the article to bring up, it's this quote. Sakurai's not going give Toad an Ice Flower or other item power ups to make him unique nor is Bandanna Dee going to command Waddle Dees in his moveset, just stick to accurately portraying the character.

He really needs to explain why Ganondorf is still a clone then.

 

[False Sense]

He really needs to explain why Ganondorf is still a clone then.

I think that's because of his father, actually. Something along those lines...