Character Discussion Thread

[Xzsmmc]

I think that's because of his father, actually. Something along those lines...

That was a hoax.

 

[False Sense]

That was a hoax.

Well, I got nothing then.

Anyways, my apologies to all you Ridley supporters. I know this must be painful...

 

[Xzsmmc]

Well, I got nothing then.

Anyways, my apologies to all you Ridley supporters. I know this must be painful...

I'm hardly a Metroid fan, and have no attachment to Ridley, yet I want him playable just so the fans can stop getting **** on. even if they can get overzealous, supporting a character is absolutely no reason to get half the abuse and passive aggressive remarks they get.

 

[BluePikmin11]

He really needs to explain why Ganondorf is still a clone then.

I guess he just found him more feasible and fitting as a clone.
Once you become a clone, you stick to being one forever.

I think that's because of his father, actually. Something along those lines...

That was a hoax.

What's this about exactly, I'm not really understanding.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

If there's anything important in the article to bring up, it's this quote. Sakurai's not going give Toad an Ice Flower or other item power ups to make him unique nor is Bandanna Dee going to command Waddle Dees in his moveset, just stick to accurately portraying the character.

At the same time, they gave Rosalina a Luma to fight with. With characters like Ganondorf being a clone, this Ridley quote is almost worthless for speculation in terms of any character that isn't Ridley.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

So now Ridley is disconfirmed. Sakurai`s opinion on the matter is fair. I disagree, and think Ridley could have been made playable and still feel like Ridley, but I respect Sakurai`s opinion regardless. Clinging to Ridley has only really been stressful for his fans, anyway, so now is the opportunity to finally let go.

 

[BluePikmin11]

At the same time, they gave Rosalina a Luma to fight with. With characters like Ganondorf being a clone, this Ridley quote is almost worthless for speculation in terms of any character that isn't Ridley.

IMO that kind of treatment is only given to characters who have no notable source material to work with, yet have at least a form of reasonable and substantial merit to get in. (Rosalina with two of the most critically acclaimed and successful games on the Wii, and DHD's iconicness.)

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

IMO that kind of treatment is only given to characters who have no notable source material to work with, yet have at least a form of reasonable and substantial merit to get in. (Rosalina with two of the most critically acclaimed and successful games on the Wii, and DHD's iconicness.)

I don't buy it. Just because a character could potentially have a moveset already, doesn't mean they can't chose something better that still makes sense.

Rosalina? There were plenty of things that could've been a moveset before adding in Luma.

Star bits, spin attack, her shield, gravity, etc. And before you say that wouldn't have made her unique...exactly. Which completely defeats your point. She did have a moveset, but Sakurai went the extra mile with her.

Duck hunt. He could've been based entirely around Duck hunt, yet, they also put in other light gun games having Sakurai go the extra mile.

Bandana Dee may have his spear, but so what? They can still give him the spear and add whatever fancy thing they want thats based around the Kirby games. Sakurai doesn't have to stop at just the spear. If Bandana Dee does get in, he might not even get a spear, (doubt it seeing how he still has it in Rainbow curse).

Edit: I will concede I might have misunderstood what you meant though.

 

[fenyx4]

Just read Masahiro Sakurai rationale for Ridley's exclusion... Amidst all of the possible excuses/reasons, "TOO BIG" (apparently, the most divisive reason - which, in my opinion, should be disregarded, particularly due to the rampant resizing in the Super Smash Bros. series) makes the cut?

Sigh...yet another dream that is permanently crushed unless Sakurai happens to change his mind or the Super Smash Bros. series gets another director (with the other main dream being that both bumpers and flippers are present in the same game (which they aren't)...I know that the Bumper and Flipper are functionally similar, but the idea of "Pinball Smash" that I envisioned just seems so cool..! ) At least with Super Smash Bros. Brawl, we just had the "slow" rationale and a glimmer of hope for Ridley.. But this rationale is just disappointing, especially coming a mere ~2 days before Super Smash Bros. for Wii U's official release.

Sheesh, "BIG" is not the only thing that defines Ridley - I mean, did you forget about the "RUTHLESS, FLYING, PURPLE, SPACE EXTRATERRESTRIAL, PIRATIC" adjectives that also equally describe this treacherous draconic lifeform? With his arsenal of fireballs and claw/tail swipes, he can still be a threatening menace to would-be challengers.. It seems like whether Ridley's downscaling would be "awkward/unfitting" is up to personal opinion.. (As an aside, I have a feeling that Mewtwo is actually canonically larger than his Super Smash Bros. Melee depiction..)

It's just disheartening to see Samus alone (I know she seems to be depicted as solitary, but the Metroid franchise has other characters, too!) as Metroid's sole representation in the Super Smash Bros. series... In my opinion, the only other Metroid characters I can see working for Super Smash Bros. are Dark Samus (although with moves that differ from the moves of Power/Varia Suit Samus) or one of the other Bounty Hunters (either Rundas or the ones from Metroid Prime: Hunters)..but none of them hold as much weight/priority as Ridley does. Nevertheless, I will still remain a fervent supporter of Ridley's campaign to become a ferocious playable fighter in the Super Smash Bros. series!

I'll have to settle with Sakurai's opinion in the meantime, but I still think that Ridley's inclusion can be properly achieved:

"Ridley in smash brothers Working model (Mod)" by Kyuu (work done by @BaganSmashBros )
"AMAZING (i guess) SSBB Project M Ridley mod" by @BaganSmashBros

Also, if we can have a "Pokemon Substitute" emoticon for Smashboards, , can we get a Ridley emoticon for the forums as well (when SSB4-Wii U comes out)? At least he actually has an official Super Smash Bros. 4 stock icon, which is more than the Substitute can say (as far as I know), as it is stuck as a component of Greninja's moveset...

 

[BluePikmin11]

I did say characters with no notable source material to work with.
Bandanna Dee has source material, it's just that the spear is not something that could make Dee really interesting in terms of gameplay.

 

[False Sense]

I did say characters with no notable source material to work with.
Bandanna Dee has source material, it's just that the spear is not something that could make Dee really interesting in terms of gameplay.

Isn't that just your opinion, though?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Isn't that just your opinion, though?

Tell me if the spear can be easily compared to a character who shoots out paint to hide and sneak attack the opponent as their main tactic.

The spear alone doesn't have a lot to work with.

 

[False Sense]

Tell me if the spear can be easily compared to a character who shoots out paint to hide and sneak attack the opponent as their main tactic.

The spear alone doesn't have a lot to work with.

Maybe it's not as unique as something like the Inklings, but the spear is a unique weapon with different applications and utilities than something like a sword. It may not be as flashy as some of the other unique characters, but it could work.

After all, this game did introduce a character that does nothing but punch, and people consider that unique. I think there's potential here that can't be completely dismissed.

 

[Deleted member]

So wait....Sakurai actually gave reasoning for Ridley's exclusion?

*Reads*

So in short, a Ridley that isn't considerably large with large wings and the ability to fly freely is not a Ridley at all.
Very controversial opinion, though understandable to an extent. If it really was Sakurai saying it. The way the article is written sounds suspiciously like a Too Bigot attempting to sound like Sakurai to shut up the Ridley fans.

Not sure how you define "Hipster," but I think the only hipster people talk about often when it comes to Smash DLC is Bayonetta, who I can probably safely say has 0% chance of ever happening.

I define "hipster" in the scenario as "supporting characters that aren't popular for the sake of them not being popular and badmouthing the popular choices solely because they are popular".

Random, half-brained choices would be characters like the Stork, Wart, Pianta, and many others that have no notable role in Nintendo's history.

Or anyone being thought of as a good choice because they aren't popular choices.

So this is a new thing:
http://mynintendonews.com/2014/11/1...dlc-for-smash-bros-on-nintendo-3ds-and-wii-u/

Well, what do you know.
Yet there will still be people expecting a crapton of DLC....

 

[Deleted member]

EDIT: Accidental double post. Delete this please.

 

[Ffamran]

Hmm, I just remembered something that I wanted answered: Would anyone object to an antithesis of Little Mac? In layman's terms: Would anyone be against a character who was amazing in the air, but horrible on the ground?

Basically, this character would have amazing air mobility, amazing aerial attacks - hell, Nair could be a "jab" -, and specials work better in the air. On the ground, smashes, tilts, normal attacks, grab, and throws are just pitiful. Spot-dodging on the ground lasts too short and has horrible start-up and end lag and rolls are short and have long start-up and end lag. Specials on the ground are slow, have little range, or just plain weak and they'll end with a helpless animation which won't exist with the air versions, normals and smashes can't kill or can barely kill on Sudden Death along with barely being able to combo into aerial attacks, and grab has short range while throws are just sad like they're all Snake's Dthrow except much weaker.

The character, however, won't have amazing jumps or move incredibly slow. Jumping-wise, somewhere in the middle or the second jump is the one that has a ton of height while jumping on the ground is really short and slow. Movement could be like Brawl Wolf where dashing is barely any faster than running, but walking, running, and dashing aren't Ganondorf slow. Recovery-wise, to not break the character (any further), it'd be like Fox, Falco, and Luigi where they have options.

It'd be an interesting idea, but the question is who would be this character be since you can pick any franchise even Punch-Out!! - by justifying that one of the boxers had a kickboxing history or something so they're better than Little Mac in the air, but pretty bad considering everyone else - that can fight on the ground as well as in the air. Pokémon would be the first go-to since there are Flying-types. Maybe Fire Emblem since there are Pegasus Knights and Wyvern Riders, but there would be a size issue and the fact that pegasi and wyverns can probably run people over, kick, or breath fire along with the fact there's a rider who won't just sit there and let people beat them up. That, however, would anger people - technically, any character would make people angry - since people would want a Pokémon like Sceptile, Blaziken, Marshtomp, or Squirtle and Ivysaur to return and then there's the whole Fire Emblem has too many people and that they're all clones of each other aside from Robin and Ike and that Roy deserves to come back along with basically no main character being a pegasus knight or wyvern rider. There are, however, antagonists who are.

So, what do you guys and gals think?

 

[Lilfut]

That's not Sakurai. Sakurai's never cared about slavish accuracy to the source material - even in 64 he basically made up Ness, Captain Falcon, and Fox out of whole cloth. In Brawl, he gave Pit an entirely made-up weapon, and made a moveset out of an NES peripheral.

That's some other jerkoff copying Sakurai's writing style for a hoax. I don't even give a **** about Ridley, but that reasoning's bull****.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If there's anything important in the article to bring up, it's this quote. Sakurai's not going give Toad an Ice Flower or other item power ups to make him unique nor is Bandanna Dee going to command Waddle Dees in his moveset, just stick to accurately portraying the character.

Absolute bull.

 

[False Sense]

Absolute bull.

Can't forget these.

 

[Lilfut]

also

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I must say.

Ridley not being in doesn't bother me.

Ridley being too big for Sakurai doesn't bother me.

It's how the fanbase will react to this that I absolutely dread.

It's for this reason that I hoped he would never comment on it.

 

[Xzsmmc]

This is the absolute most heinous offense of them all. Even worse, he knows. I still haven't forgotten Ganon's post on the Brawl dojo.

I must say.

Ridley not being in doesn't bother me.

Ridley being too big for Sakurai doesn't bother me.

It's how the fanbase will react to this that I absolutely dread.

It's for this reason that I hoped he would never comment on it.

You and me both man.

I gotta be honest, I really hate the Smash Bros. fanbase.

 

[Ffamran]

also

Why , , , and ? Little Mac's a boxer in a game with superhuman people... There's not much you can do with him and the Villager who's from a series similar to a Sim game. Ike's probably the closest compared to Marth, Lucina, and Roy. Robin, eh..., It's sort of close to what Robin can do in Fire Emblem and works with the whole Uses mechanic. Ike, however, has animations based on his combat in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. The only differences are the way he holds his sword which is higher up in his games, Aether not being able to heal and its missing one part of the attack, and I think Quickdraw should have been similar to Fox Illusion since his critical did that while Quickdraw doesn't. Pit sort of fights like how he does in Uprising.

 

[Lilfut]

Little Mac had 4 moves in his original game. Ike was originally noted for being both fast AND strong, but became bulky for Smash. Pit's Palutena Bow from Brawl, and by extension most of his moveset, was entirely made up, even if it did go on to appear in Uprising. Villager's being made up is justifiable, but still applicable.

 

[Ffamran]

Little Mac had 4 moves in his original game. Ike was originally noted for being both fast AND strong, but became bulky for Smash. Pit's Palutena Bow from Brawl, and by extension most of his moveset, was entirely made up, even if it did go on to appear in Uprising. Villager's being made up is justifiable, but still applicable.

You have to make up stuff for a boxer who's known for one special move, the K.O. Uppercut. Boxers use jabs, straights, hooks, uppercuts, and overcuts. There's not a lot to work around compared to say, putting a drunken fist guy into the game and making it all fantastical. If he was even closer to his Punch-Out!! appearance, then Little Mac would lose an approach since Jolt Haymaker isn't logical in anyway and boxers don't have Superman Punches which would still be incredibly short compared to Jolt Haymaker, he'd lose a recovery since Rising Uppercut is not real, and his smashes would just be the forward smash variations since no boxer swings his arms like that when he does his up and down smash. Oh, and his down tilt would have to cover even less range and be a crouch jab forwards instead of downwards while up tilt would have to be an overcut or a smaller uppercut since no boxer swings their arm like that. As for aerials: none, absolutely none making him even more freaking useless in the air and his specials shouldn't even work in the air much less his ability to dodge. Little Mac would have a better chance being true to his games in Tekken or Street Fighter than SSB, but he's a Nintendo character so... Yeah.

If Ike was fast and strong, he'd be broken since he'd have a ton of range for a melee fighter, move ridiculously fast for a heavy weight, and would hit like a truck. Blame balancing for Ike's portrayal in a fighting game. Otherwise, Ike's really close to his appearance in his games considering his moves.

Brawl Pit was made up like Captain Falcon, but SSB4 Pit uses moves and gear from Uprising which makes it less made up and close to his game. Brawl Pit was just some obscure character put into a new game like the Ice Climbers. Once Uprising came out, it was just him being remade to be closer to his Uprising appearance. He's less poorly portrayed in SSB4, but if it was entirely true then he'd be more like Megaman than Brawl fused with Uprising Pit.

 

[Kenith]

Please don't tell I'm not the only non-Ridley fan who believes Sakurai used faulty and hypocritical logic here?

 

[Xzsmmc]

Please don't tell I'm not the only non-Ridley fan who believes Sakurai used faulty and hypocritical logic here?

You're not. I still think Ganondorf jogging leisurely while Falcon Punching people or Rosalina gleefully sending her kids to die is far more out of character than Ridley being smaller.

 

[Staarih]

I always thought Ridley as a playable character would bring the best "accurate portrayal" of him seeing as he'd have more mobility and a bigger arsenal of things to do, rather than be limited to boss-status. But I guess size is, indeed, the largest issue here, which does make it sound a little hypocritical as Sakurai himself has made comments about scaling and sizes before (and how it wouldn't make a difference).

Oh well, I guess we sort of got the best of both worlds with what Ridley is in Pyrosphere now: more lively than what he was before, but still big. Playability would still be the way I'd go. I wouldn't want to give up on Ridley, but it looks to be pretty inevitable, as I can't see him making it in as long as Sakurai is in charge.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Please don't tell I'm not the only non-Ridley fan who believes Sakurai used faulty and hypocritical logic here?

Far from it. I'm not a big Ridley fan, but it seem's hypocritical when so many characters aren't accurately portrayed.

The all loving pure hearted Princess Peach forcibly blocking attacks on her with her beloved subjects; mama Rosalina sending her Lumas to go murder her opponents, Ganondorf in general, or Wii Fit Trainer; the physical fitness expert having an energy ball attack.

I mean it's not the first time we've seen wackalacky logic from Sakurai, I really wonder why anyone questions him anymore.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Size "issue"? Really, Sakurai? Really?

 

[PlayfulMushroom]

Ridley will never be playable.

F***

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Honestly, I'm not too worried about Ridley not making it in for those exact reasons. It just gives me the reason to believe we're getting Adam Malkovich someday.

 

[Kenith]

That's not Sakurai. Sakurai's never cared about slavish accuracy to the source material - even in 64 he basically made up Ness, Captain Falcon, and Fox out of whole cloth. In Brawl, he gave Pit an entirely made-up weapon, and made a moveset out of an NES peripheral.
That's some other jerkoff copying Sakurai's writing style for a hoax. I don't even give a **** about Ridley, but that reasoning's bull****.

So you believe that the article is not legitimate? Or that Sakurai is an impostor? Interesting either way.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Absolute bull.

Can't forget these.

I would like to bring this up:

There are some characters don't have to be 100% accurate in their moveset, there are times when moves are taken from other characters or made up to make them a little more diverse and to showcase the main, notable options of their respective games, like , , and.

Not every character has to follow the accuracy rule, or they wouldn't be suited for a fighter.
Putting the Blue Falcon or the Arwing in ,,'s moveset wouldn't work, they would have to use made up moves in order to make them suitable as a fighter.

There are characters who are exceptions to the uniqueness rule.
, , , , don't have anything to pull from just by looking at the characters themselves, so it makes sense to use moves taken from outside of the box to make them unique characters, and again I'd like to bring up this:

That kind of treatment is only given to characters who have no notable source material to work with, yet have at least a form of reasonable and substantial merit to get in.

I'm not sure why you brought up , as she already has tons of moves to pull from just by looking at the exercises in the game.

And personally, I think is just the unlucky exception, and that was the time when clones were first being considered. I'm not sure anymore if Sakurai was even thinking of uniqueness when it came to Ganondorf at all.

 

[Kenith]

Putting the Blue Falcon or the Arwing in ,,'s moveset wouldn't work, they would have to use made up moves in order to make them suitable as a fighter.

Right, just like Ridley, evidently, would have to be shrunk down in order to make him suitable as a fighter.

 

[False Sense]

I would like to bring this up:

There are some characters don't have to be 100% accurate in their moveset, there are times when moves are taken from other characters or made up to make them a little more diverse and to showcase the main, notable options of their respective games, like , , and.

Not every character has to follow the accuracy rule, or they wouldn't be suited for a fighter.
Putting the Blue Falcon or the Arwing in ,,'s moveset wouldn't work, they would have to use made up moves in order to make them suitable as a fighter.

There are characters who are exceptions to the uniqueness rule.
, , , , don't have anything to pull from just by looking at the characters themselves, so it makes sense to use moves taken from outside of the box to make them unique characters, and again I'd like to bring up this:


I'm not sure why you brought up , as she already has tons of moves to pull from just by looking at the exercises in the game.

And personally, I think is just the unlucky exception, and that was the time when clones were first being considered. I'm not sure anymore if Sakurai was even thinking of uniqueness when it came to Ganondorf at all.

With so many exceptions, how can such a rule be so definitively enforced?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Right, just like Ridley, evidently, would have to be shrunk down in order to make him suitable as a fighter.

Ridley isn't comparable to characters who (from the start) have a more anthropological (first time using that word) structure suitable for character material.

With so many exceptions, how can such a rule be so definitively enforced?

I don't know exactly why he does it, but that is what I believe how Sakurai's uniqueness philosophy works.

 

[False Sense]

Ridley isn't comparable to characters who (from the start) have a more anthropological (first time using that word) structure suitable for character material.


I don't know exactly why he does it, but that is what I believe how Sakurai's uniqueness philosophy works.

In other words, it's pretty much based entirely on his opinion of whether or not each individual character is feasible.

So it's virtually useless to us.

 

[BluePikmin11]

In other words, it's pretty much based entirely on his opinion of whether or not each individual character is feasible.

So it's virtually useless to us.

But useful for DLC newcomer speculation.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

But useful for DLC newcomer speculation.

Daily reminder that Young Link has no chance.