Character Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

I can't imagine this would be the venue chosen to reveal Ganondorf of all characters when HW is coming out next month in Japan with old Ganny being the last Zelda veteran plausible to use as a tie-in promotion.

 

[Gunla]

Ganondorf would work for a Hyrule Warriors tie-in, but not here.

What should get revealed because it's been blatantly confirmed by Nintendo now hopefully is Wario.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I can't imagine this would be the venue chosen to reveal Ganondorf of all characters when HW is coming out next month in Japan with old Ganny being the last Zelda veteran plausible to use as a tie-in promotion.

Even better is if they announced Ganondorf getting a new moveset! They can announce Ganondorf officially for Hyrule Warriors, and announce Ganondorf's return for Smash Bros. with a new moveset in the same Nintendo Direct. :D

 

[Phaazoid]

What should get revealed because it's been blatantly confirmed by Nintendo now hopefully is Wario.

I kinda doubt it. When Nintendo accidentally leaked a few character pre brawl they left them as hidden. I don't see why they'd change whatever order they were going to reveal the characters in just because of a little slip, especially of a character no one doubts is returning.

If Wario gets revealed this weekend, it would've been already planned, imo.

Even better is if they announced Ganondorf getting a new moveset! They can announce Ganondorf officially for Hyrule Warriors, and announce Ganondorf's return for Smash Bros. with a new moveset in the same Nintendo Direct. :D

If they didn't revamp Ganon's moveset for brawl why do you think they're going to do it for Sm4sh? I feel like he's just going to get a little more Luigified, if anything.

 

[Sonic Poke]

If they didn't revamp Ganon's moveset for brawl why do you think they're going to do it for Sm4sh? I feel like he's just going to get a little more Luigified, if anything.

They revamped Bowser, Pit and Zero Suit Samus... They are not even clones.

 

[Phaazoid]

They revamped Bowser, Pit and Zero Suit Samus... They are not even clones.

Those weren't what I meant by revamp, those were Luigifications. A lot of their movements are still the same. Pit got his specials re-worked to fit his new game, and a few changes in standard attacks. Bowser got some new standard moves. Zero suit samus got a new up b.

From Melee to Brawl, Ganondorf got some of his standard moves changed, and his side b got revamped as well. If that's what you guys mean by revamp, I could see it happening. Entirely new moveset though? I kinda doubt it.

 

[Gunla]

I kinda doubt it. When Nintendo accidentally leaked a few character pre brawl they left them as hidden. I don't see why they'd change whatever order they were going to reveal the characters in just because of a little slip, especially of a character no one doubts is returning.

If Wario gets revealed this weekend, it would've been already planned, imo.

I kind of just wish they would. It's annoying to know character X is in the game, but you don't get to see any artwork or images of the character in action, no matter how obvious it was they were returning.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Those weren't what I meant by revamp, those were Luigifications. A lot of their movements are still the same. Pit got his specials re-worked to fit his new game, and a few changes in standard attacks. Bowser got some new standard moves. Zero suit samus got a new up b.

From Melee to Brawl, Ganondorf got some of his standard moves changed, and his side b got revamped as well. If that's what you guys mean by revamp, I could see it happening. Entirely new moveset though? I kinda doubt it.

Anyway, I think the chances of Gannondorf not be revamped are the same of Mewtwo not returning.

 

[N3ON]

It really sucks that due to similar body shape a major, important and potential-full character like Ganondorf has been condemned to semi-clonage for what is likely the duration of Sakurai helming the series.

He really should've been changed with Brawl, but like Phaazoid said, since he wasn't it's unlikely he'll experience a full revamp at this point. One can always hope though~

 

[Phaazoid]

I kind of just wish they would. It's annoying to know character X is in the game, but you don't get to see any artwork or images of the character in action, no matter how obvious it was they were returning.

And his sword is such a damn tease, too, xD. No, I think it'd be really cool to see him with a more iconic set of moves. But then I'd miss the batmobile(Down B), Natzi Stomp (down air), and Suicide Pact (side B). Those moves have become iconic in their own way, to smash. Sure, they could do the black shadow/ganon thing, but that feel more like a pipe dream concocted by the PM team than anything else. But, hey, we got Robin, so I guess it's possible xD

Anyway, I think the chances of Gannondorf not be revamped are the same of Mewtwo not returning.

Yeesh, that negative about Mewtwo's chances?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Anyway, I think the chances of Gannondorf not be revamped are the same of Mewtwo not returning.

And uh, what exactly are those chances? My guess is 0%

 

[Louie G.]

I think Ganondorf could get a new moveset, but I don't know how likely it is.

Think of it as old Ganondorf getting cut and being replace by a brand new character.
Who is also Ganondorf.

 

[N3ON]

I think Ganondorf could get a new moveset, but I don't know how likely it is.

Think of it as old Ganondorf getting cut and being replace by a brand new character.
Who is also Ganondorf.

I'd say the only hope for this rests on Zelda not getting a newcomer and Sakurai taking that energy to fully de-clone Ganondorf. I'm not going to hold my breath for that though.

 

[False Sense]

And uh, what exactly are those chances? My guess is 0%

Both are definitely a lot more likely than that.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Those weren't what I meant by revamp, those were Luigifications. A lot of their movements are still the same. Pit got his specials re-worked to fit his new game, and a few changes in standard attacks. Bowser got some new standard moves. Zero suit samus got a new up b.

From Melee to Brawl, Ganondorf got some of his standard moves changed, and his side b got revamped as well. If that's what you guys mean by revamp, I could see it happening. Entirely new moveset though? I kinda doubt it.

Not necessarily entirely new, he may keep a few old moves, but at least having most of his moves changes to fit him. His standard special should be his ball of light blast that stuns opponents if it hits, complete with tennis match, he should use either a sword, dual swords, or a trident for a few attacks, and rely heavily on his dark magic for other attacks.

I think Ganondorf could get a new moveset, but I don't know how likely it is.

Think of it as old Ganondorf getting cut and being replace by a brand new character.
Who is also Ganondorf.

The chance of that happening I think is far more likely than Zelda getting a newcomer. Far more people want a GOOD Ganondorf that respects his original fighting style than a new Zelda character.

I'd say the only hope for this rests on Zelda not getting a newcomer and Sakurai taking that energy to fully de-clone Ganondorf. I'm not going to hold my breath for that though.

I don't expect a Zelda newcomer, actually. I think Sakurai would be well aware that with the time and effort he can spend on a Zelda newcomer, he'd realize that a revamped Ganondorf would please people far more.

 

[SpindaMaster]

Honestly, I don't even care about him having a sword. I just want him to have his ping-pong move.

 

[N3ON]

I don't expect a Zelda newcomer, actually. I think Sakurai would be well aware that with the time and effort he can spend on a Zelda newcomer, he'd realize that a revamped Ganondorf would please people far more.

Maybe I didn't say it very well, but the part I'm not expecting is Sakurai to give Ganondorf a full revamp whether or not a Zelda newcomer. I'm not expecting we'll get a newcomer either.

Sakurai seems far too intent on adhering to tradition and not shaking things much up as far as vets go. Even with the reasons he gave I think the only actual reason the transformation characters got broken up was due to technical limitations, if he could've kept them as they were I'd guess he probably would've.

 

[Phaazoid]

Sakurai seems far too intent on adhering to tradition and not shaking things much up as far as vets go. Even with the reasons he gave I think the only actual reason the transformation characters got broken up was due to technical limitations, if he could've kept them as they were I'd guess he probably would've.

I thought he specified it was for record keeping purposes? I can't remember where, but I coulda sworn I heard something about that. I might be confusing this with what he said about making Lucina separate, but even if I am that same logic could be applied to both places.

Not necessarily entirely new, he may keep a few old moves, but at least having most of his moves changes to fit him. His standard special should be his ball of light blast that stuns opponents if it hits, complete with tennis match, he should use either a sword, dual swords, or a trident for a few attacks, and rely heavily on his dark magic for other attacks.

I could see him getting a few changes, but I don't think it'll be something as big as a completely new special attack. Maybe some different animations on the tilts, smashes, or aerials, but I don't see it going much further than that.

 

[SureNsync]

Don't get how people think Ganondorf isn't getting a revamped move set. He hasn't revealed Ganondorf since. Something is up. Unless a Zelda newcomer is in. There's no way Sakurai would keep Ganondorf as a clone in 3 games.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ganondorf will at the very least be fixed. So whether they make him faster and stronger, he will be different.

I do feel like he'll get at least a few new moves. Or something. If Namco looks at Ganondorf and they're like "NAOPE. HE'S GOOD", then that's a problem. Although I don't think that will happen. I think for sure he'll be a little faster like his Melee version, and if Bowser's strength is any indication, Ganondorf will be real strong. The real question is what will happen with his moveset.

But please, don't be one of those people who cuts him because "HE'S NOT RELEVANT". Oh really? GANONDORF of all characters isn't relevant? COME ON.

 

[Phaazoid]

Don't get how people think Ganondorf isn't getting a revamped move set. He hasn't revealed Ganondorf since. Something is up. Unless a Zelda newcomer is in. There's no way Sakurai would keep Ganondorf as a clone in 3 games.

He didn't reveal Ganondorf in Brawl until after the game came out in NA. You know how much he was changed there.

Ganondorf will at the very least be fixed. So whether they make him faster and stronger, he will be different.

Now this I can see happening. Sakurai seems to have recognized the crap some of the lower tier characters were getting, and has been revamping quite well, as we can see from yesterday's tournament. I can see Ganondorf buffed. revamped? doubtful. Changed for the better? probable.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Yeesh, that negative about Mewtwo's chances?

To me is positive.
The outcry in both situations to me is the same.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Don't get how people think Ganondorf isn't getting a revamped move set. He hasn't revealed Ganondorf since. Something is up. Unless a Zelda newcomer is in. There's no way Sakurai would keep Ganondorf as a clone in 3 games.

Ganondorf wasn't announced before release in the past two games. Granted... Toon Link was announced, so I suppose its possible that he could be saving Ganondorf.

Ganondorf will at the very least be fixed. So whether they make him faster and stronger, he will be different.

I do feel like he'll get at least a few new moves. Or something. If Namco looks at Ganondorf and they're like "NAOPE. HE'S GOOD", then that's a problem. Although I don't think that will happen. I think for sure he'll be a little faster like his Melee version, and if Bowser's strength is any indication, Ganondorf will be real strong. The real question is what will happen with his moveset.

But please, don't be one of those people who cuts him because "HE'S NOT RELEVANT". Oh really? GANONDORF of all characters isn't relevant? COME ON.

Frankly this kind of argument also helps K. Rool. The only thing against K. Rool is he hasn't appeared in the most recent DK games, which is the same thing with Ganondorf, despite both being the main antagonists of their respective franchises.

 

[Louie G.]

To me is positive.
The outcry in both situations to me is the same.

I mean at least Ganondorf would be in the game.

 

[Phaazoid]

To me is positive.
The outcry in both situations to me is the same.

I would say the outcry for Mewtwo's inclusion is a lot bigger than for Ganondorf being revamped. People don't pay Ganon as much attention because he wasn't unceremoniously cut.

 

[N3ON]

I thought he specified it was for record keeping purposes? I can't remember where, but I coulda sworn I heard something about that. I might be confusing this with what he said about making Lucina separate, but even if I am that same logic could be applied to both places.

Yeah, I think that was the reason he gave for clones and semi-clones, not separating transformation characters.

That reason was balance-related, though I don't believe that's the actual reason.

Don't get how people think Ganondorf isn't getting a revamped move set. He hasn't revealed Ganondorf since. Something is up. Unless a Zelda newcomer is in. There's no way Sakurai would keep Ganondorf as a clone in 3 games.

He hasn't announced Ness yet either, but I very much doubt much has changed with him. He didn't reveal Captain Falcon until recently and he looks pretty similar to how he's always been...

I think there's a very good chance Ganondorf will only receive a few changes at best. I can definitely see him being kept as a semi-clone for a third game. That's what I'm anticipating for Falco...

 

[Baskerville]

With Ganondorf if they decided to give him a few changes, one of the changes that needs to happen is his Up Tilt. Just make it much, much faster but still have it's kill power, much like how the P:M team handled it.

 

[Phaazoid]

Yeah, I think that was the reason he gave for clones and semi-clones, not separating transformation characters.

That reason was balance-related, though I don't believe that's the actual reason.

Yep, I went back to it, he said something about if there are any differences in statistics between characters they get different slots because of battle records.

It kind of makes sense to pull characters apart for battle records as well, it follows the same logic a little bit, but I agree it probably wasn't the main reason it was done. I do kinda wonder about why that decision was made, though. I like it, but it's curious.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I would be fine if Ganondorf was a clone if it made sense. However, it makes ZERO sense, as he has much more potential than "Dark Captain Falcon". They aren't even from the same game! It's an insult to his character.

 

[Doompatron3000]

So Bill Trinen sent out this tweet maybe a zelda character or maybe its nothing?
https://twitter.com/trintran/status/493054186896904193

Please be a Villains trailer! Oh please be a Villains trailer!

 

[SureNsync]

Yeah, I think that was the reason he gave for clones and semi-clones, not separating transformation characters.

That reason was balance-related, though I don't believe that's the actual reason.


He hasn't announced Ness yet either, but I very much doubt much has changed with him. He didn't reveal Captain Falcon until recently and he looks pretty similar to how he's always been...

I think there's a very good chance Ganondorf will only receive a few changes at best. I can definitely see him being kept as a semi-clone for a third game. That's what I'm anticipating for Falco...

But Ness was never a clone, miss. At least he wasn't considered a clone till Lucas was confirmed in Brawl. All Ness is missing in his move set is his PK Rockin Final Smash. PK Starstorm was the only mistake. That could have been left for Lucas. It should be understandable if Ness and Lucas need to borrow PSI moves from Paula and Kumatora. It was smart on Sakurai's part to not let PSI moves go to waste.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If we DO get something, I wouldn't expect more than a veteran and/or a newcomer. I wouldn't expect multiple. That's if we get anything at all.

I still want a roster leak. I'm at the point where I really don't care to speculate anymore. Just give me Shulk, and the rest of the roster is fine with me. Even if Snake gets the boot...*sniffle.

 

[KageJuin]

Regarding Lucina, didn't Sakurai say "However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ." Wouldn't "the characteristics" of her attacks differing make her pretty much like Falco in Melee...or something like that? It means while they share the same attacks, she will probably effect opponents differently than Marth, thus making her more different than what people seem to give her credit for. After all, no one has had a chance to play her and see exactly what those different effects will be, nor has Sakurai showed us in a pic of the day as of yet, so I think we should all relax and wait for more information. I'm honestly tired of people getting worked up over this "clone" stuff. We've had clones for a long time, it's not the end of the world.

Though this may just be me, I'm happy Lucina is playable at all, clone or not. She's my favorite character in FE Awakening, so I'll be sure to play as her when I get the chance. Also, I'm complete garbage with Marth due to the tip of the blade stuff (I can never hit people with it), and most of my battles with him ended in failure. I always liked Roy better, I hardly ever be Marth at all in Brawl, but now that Lucina is here, I can just be her instead. I like how Marth plays, but I could just never use him effectively. I may be able to get Lucina to work though, I'll have to see.

Just saying she is an different character for her differences doesn't make for an argument.
She was in the game as Marth's alt already, lacking any differences.
He went out of his way to add some minor differences just to make her a different character.

This smells of time constraints.


The reason I say time constraints is because of the unexpected events of his calcific tendonitis.

Start of 2013 it appeared in his right shoulder and he also go elbow pains: http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/27/40...is-bum-right-arm-is-hindering-work-on-the-new

starts of this year it happened to his left arm: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sm...-sounds-like-it-s-getting-worse/1100-6417712/

His condition has worsened while it was implied by him that it would hinder his work. I believe it has, as he's not a robot and life isn't a game. He can't just take a maxim tomato and carry on. He is suffering from a chronic illness that is hampering the development of this game.

I think we may very well see more clones in the spirit of Lucina: last minute shoeins to make the roster reach a nice round number.

 

[Phaazoid]

If we DO get something, I wouldn't expect more than a veteran and/or a newcomer. I wouldn't expect multiple. That's if we get anything at all.

I still want a roster leak. I'm at the point where I really don't care to speculate anymore. Just give me Shulk, and the rest of the roster is fine with me. Even if Snake gets the boot...*sniffle.

I'm actually really happy with how well the secret of the roster has been kept, it's impressive. I'm hoping it stays secret until the game comes out so I can unlock everything myself.

 

[skylanders fan]

Please be a Villains trailer! Oh please be a Villains trailer!

the tornaments over the lights turn off the suddenly you hear wario laughing (wario stinks in) then destroys mario suddely he gets hit by a sword (ganondorf slices in) the gannon gets ran over by king k rool (king k rool takes the thrown) then it ends but then we see all the characters just confirmed blown away by a epic battles between mewtwo (mewtwo strikes back) and ridley (ridleys not to big) then it really ends

 

[N3ON]

But Ness was never a clone, miss. At least he wasn't considered a clone till Lucas was confirmed in Brawl. All Ness is missing in his move set is his PK Rockin Final Smash. PK Starstorm was the only mistake. That could have been left for Lucas. It should be understandable if Ness and Lucas need to borrow PSI moves from Paula and Kumatora. It was smart on Sakurai's part to not let PSI moves go to waste.

Ah, I see you're only talking about clones. But really... does the difference matter? There have been clones that incrementally got more Luigi-fied, but then again there have been original characters who have had their moves changed as well. As of yet there's been no character who has experienced a full revamp, and just because Ganondorf hasn't been shown yet and has been cloney twice before doesn't mean he's necessarily going to get one. Do you think Falco is also going to get drastically changed? Because I don't.

 

[Louie G.]

Not sure if I want the roster leaked or not...

It can clear up Chorus Kids, Mewtwo, K. Rool, and Ridley for me, however surprises are always a treat.

 

[Burruni]

Here's my question: Does Ganondorf even NEED a change? So he doesn't use a sword. So he's got a moveset derived from the one made up for Captain Falcon based on Power Ranger/Kamen Rider/Ultraman style shows. And? As a Gerudo King who has the Triforce of Power embedded into his soul, his entire moveset feels like a crushing powerhouse. I, as a Ganondorf Main in Melee and PM, have never really felt that Ganondorf needed to be changed. If you ever hit a turnaround Warlock punch you would never want that move taken away because of the godly wrath it gives. Does his full kit work competitively? No. But I can say the same for a ton of characters. Jigglypuff's Sing, Pikachu's Skull Bash, Mario's FLUDD, Peach's Hip-Slam, PK Flash, Dancing blade other than momentum stalling, etc. I feel that Ganondorf just needs a bit more speed and jump height and he would be perfectly good. Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Here's my question: Does Ganondorf even NEED a change? So he doesn't use a sword. So he's got a moveset derived from the one made up for Captain Falcon based on Power Ranger/Kamen Rider/Ultraman style shows. And? As a Gerudo King who has the Triforce of Power embedded into his soul, his entire moveset feels like a crushing powerhouse. I, as a Ganondorf Main in Melee and PM, have never really felt that Ganondorf needed to be changed. If you ever hit a turnaround Warlock punch you would never want that move taken away because of the godly wrath it gives. Does his full kit work competitively? No. But I can say the same for a ton of characters. Jigglypuff's Sing, Pikachu's Skull Bash, Mario's FLUDD, Peach's Hip-Slam, PK Flash, Dancing blade other than momentum stalling, etc. I feel that Ganondorf just needs a bit more speed and jump height and he would be perfectly good. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Yes. At the very least he needs more dark magic attacks. I could care less if Ganondorf gets a weapon to fight with, the only thing I do care about is if he taunts with his weapon, he should use it for a few attacks at least.

Of course, considering the fact that Ganondorf was the ABSOLUTE WORST character in Brawl, yes, he IS broken. He's so horribly broken he needs a major overhaul to make him worthwhile.

 

[Chandeelure]

Ganondorf just needs more speed, power and magic projectiles.