Character Discussion Thread

[Maxilian]

All I know is that if we don't get K. Rool, I'll be really upset. I'm sorry to Dixie fans but K. Rool would be much more unique to the series.

How? he would be unique in looks, but in what else can he be unique compared to Dixie? having in mind how each character would fight, Dixie is way more unique than K. K. Rool

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

So I just convinced another guy that Ness was back when I thought of something:

Are items (Besides Assist Trophies and Pokeballs) unlockable?
Because in order for these items to exist without the awkwardness of not having no character from their home series representing them:

Spoiler

Either Lucas is confirmed, or Ness is a starter. Or maybe both are starters and Porky is a newcomer, I don't know.

 

[Maxilian]

So I just convinced another guy that Ness was back when I thought of something:

Are items (Besides Assist Trophies and Pokeballs) unlockable?
Because in order for these items to exist without the awkwardness of not having no character from their home series representing them:

Spoiler

Either Lucas is confirmed, or Ness is an unlockable. Or maybe both are starters and Porky is a newcomer, I don't know.

Well we already knew that one of them were comming, but the question is... are both comming back?

 

[Twin Shot]

Yeah. Most I could see is 54 and random.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Well we already knew that one of them were comming, but the question is... are both comming back?

Assuming Lucas is cut, it'd be kinda strange to have MOTHER items with no MOTHER characters to use them, IMO. So Ness might be a starter to properly represent those items.

Though the Franklin Badge was more important in MOTHER 3 than EarthBound, so Lucas might be in.

I'm theorizing it'll be Lucas the starter and Ness the unlockable, with maybe Porky as a newcomer.

 

[Zzuxon]

I honestly don't think Lucas has been cut. If they had time to squeeze in an extra clone like Lucina, they had time for Lucas.

 

[JFM2796]

I haven't seen much of anyone taking into account the layout of the E3/Best Buy Demo's character select screen when making their rosters. It's worth noting, that the Brawl E for All Demo corresponds to the starting roster in Brawl, so I don't see why Smash 4 wouldn't follow suit.

For reference:

Brawl:

Spoiler

E for All:

Start:

Finish:

If you were to take each row and lay them out next to each other, you would see that no character ever breaks the order: Random

It's reasonable to assume that the Smash 4 demos follow suit similarly. For reference:

Spoiler

Wii U E3 Demo:

I believe that the characters on the Wii U select screen won't break this order: when arranged horizontally. All other characters will fill up spaces in between.

Just something to keep in mind when laying out your rosters.

 

[Pizzanigs]

How? he would be unique in looks, but in what else can he be unique compared to Dixie? having in mind how each character would fight, Dixie is way more unique than K. K. Rool

I fail to see how Dixie would be more unique than King K. Rool. Care to elaborate?

 

[SmasherMaster]

I haven't seen much of anyone taking into account the layout of the E3/Best Buy Demo's character select screen when making their rosters. It's worth noting, that the Brawl E for All Demo corresponds to the starting roster in Brawl, so I don't see why Smash 4 wouldn't follow suit.

For reference:

Brawl:

Spoiler

E for All:

Start:

Finish:

If you were to take each row and lay them out next to each other, you would see that no character ever breaks the order: Random

It's reasonable to assume that the Smash 4 demos follow suit similarly. For reference:

Spoiler

Wii U E3 Demo:

I believe that the characters on the Wii U select screen won't break this order: when arranged horizontally. All other characters will fill up spaces in between.

Just something to keep in mind when laying out your rosters.

Can you also include from the 3DS roster for E3?

 

[JFM2796]

Can you also include from the 3DS roster for E3?

Spoiler

I believe this is it.

 

[ElPanandero]

Something I was thinking about, even if lucina (and others are clones) smash bros has been relatively blessed compared to other fighting games. Almost every fighting game I've played has clones once the roster grows beyond 20ish, Tekken has Eddy/Christina, Julia/Michelle, King/armor King. I think, Sophitia/Cassandra, Amy/Rapheal in Soul Calbur. Ken/Ryu in Street Fighter.

Those are just a few off the top of my head. We decry Sakurai for daring to put clones into smash bros, but it's still a fighting game, and isn't above the usual fighting game trends. Clones aren't unique to our series, but the overwhelming negativity towards them might be (I don't really go to other forums, maybe they hate them too )

 

[Substitution]

I fail to see how Dixie would be more unique than King K. Rool. Care to elaborate?

Simple.
One has bubble gum, and the other is a reptile.

 

[Maxilian]

Simple.
One has bubble gum, and the other is a reptile.

and long hair

Well... K. K. Roll have 2 playstiles: one based on the Boss fight of DK64, and you know what we already have a boxer and then you have the normal brute force type of character and guess who's like that? (You could also say the Pirate fight, well... there's no much that you can take out from it -well a really cool pirate skin- ) and Dixie could be a air based figther

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

After looking at the list of Classic NES Series ports that happened for the Game BOy advance, I can see at least a few potential retros that still has a chance unlike *sniff* *sniff* Balloon FIghter.

http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Classic_NES_Series

If these games had received ports due to their cult status/popularity, then it's down to three potential series (Excite, Murasame Castle, Shin Onigashima, and Famicom Detective Club).

FDC had a crap load of remakes/ports ranging from the Super Nintendo to the Game Boy Advance and managed to make quite the impact in Japan. The original game itself was popular enough to spawn a sequel a year later, which is quite the feat. It did managed to get a few references in the series like an Ayumi trophy in Melee and a few Brawl material (Both Ayumi and Protagonists as stickers and a snippet of the second game's title in the Famicom Medly) over time. The game also had a slightly controversial live action commercial that promoted the game, which is still notorious even up to this day. The only thing that stops it from getting a character is the game's Japan-Only status and the fact that it hadn't had any form of reference since Brawl's release.

Shin Onigashima is considered one of Nintendo's earliest text based adventures back in the day (until the aforementioned Famicom Detective Club came along) and is still notorious up to this day for its high difficulty. It was popular enough to spawn a Super Nintendo remake that was compatible with Nintendo's Sateleview unit which had a few changes here and there. Like FDC, the series managed to get a trophy based on Donbe and Hikari and had some sticker representation in Brawl. The obvious difference when it came to music in Brawl was that it managed to get a full song/medley unlike FDC, which had a small snippet used for a medley. Though it still suffers from the issue of being Japan-Only, a character did get be reference in a post-Brawl game called Captain Rainbow (which is being referenced in Smash despite the game flopping). Chances are that Hikari may be a trophy against, but based on her CR appearance.

Next up is Excite series which has many things going for it like being a very popular series that had an international release and many sequels and/or spinoffs (Excite Truck and Excite Bike respectively) ever since. While it's debatable whether the series is considered retro or not, I'll still talk about ti regardless since it's a such a classic. It managed to have a 3D Classic and a WiiWare sequel (which was released a few years before the rise of the 3DS). Excitebiker was trophy in Melee (in which he was originally going to be fighter, but couldn't be added due to complications with jumping by bike) and appeared as a retro Assist Trophy that would attack other racers in a humorous race. Like FDC, a snippet of the game's title theme was used in the Famicom Medley track. While he MAY be considered as a fighter due to many circumstances, there's still the slight chance that he may return as an Assist Trophy since it appears that a majority of Brawl's Assist Trophies are slowly returning. Not to mention the series didn't manage to get a reference in Nintendo Land yet something as non-popular as Murasame Castle managed to get one for some odd reason (which will be explained later on).

Last but not least is non other than Murasame Castle and boy this one will be quite the doozie. Nintendo had really pushed the game to be popular in the past which included material like board games, guides that sometimes appeared in the form of manga, and a TV Drama (which was made to advertise the game at launch before Zelda's release, but got rescheduled along with the game due to production issues like film theft). But in the game, the game flopped and failed the garner the same success as Metroid and Zelda (also Kid Icarus to a less extent too) during the rough year of 1986. Despite this, the game itself had developet a small cult following in its home country that could explain the many things that would happen later. First, Murasame Castle was later ported to GBA on August 10, 2004 as part of the Famicom Mini Series like the previous classics I've mentioned so far. Nazo no Murasame Jō is slated for release on the 3DS (which would eventually become the VC realese for the 3DS) and it was featured amongst other games from the NES and SNES to be released for the 3DS on a tech demo called Classic Games at E3 2010. In terms of an odd cameo, the disk of the original Famicom title appeared in Pikmin 2 for no real reason whatsoever other than to be collectible treasure(which was the first reference to Murasame Castle that was shown to the Western public). Like Hikari, Takamaru himself also appeared in the game as supporting character quite some time after Brawl's release. A little while later came his rather unexpected appearance as guest character in the least popular Wii port of Samurai Warriors 3 (Murasame Castle's third time it was mentioned in an international game). While there could have been plenty of more famous characters to use for the game like Marth or Link, he must have been chosen due to fitting in with the game's style and for being a real samurai. Considering how huge the Warriors franchise was in Japan, it was quite the honor that such an obscure character even had the chance to play such a role. As for the series fourth mention in an international Nintendo title, it was none other than Nintendo Land. This basically raises the question of why this series got representation over the likes of Excite Bike and Mach Rider. It could be that the Big N themselves wanted to spread more awareness of the series to its Western audiences and they've wanted to throw the Murasame fans a bone over the lack of a sequel (which Kid Icarus managed to get due to being more successful than it in the past and Pit's lukewarm reception in Brawl).

Now for the Smash references: had little to no mention in Melee due to short development time despite the references of the other Famicom titles, sticker in Brawl, and a song based on the Overworld them in Brawl. Overall, Takamaru may or may not have a chance as a fighter (though the possibility of DLC is arguably higher due to limited roster space and lack or Murasame references so far) with the chances ranging from 40 -50% based on the cameos and ports alone. So far there was no mention of him being an Assist Trophy (which has a decent chance of happening depending on whether Sakurai wants new retro AT's or not) and there's still a possibility of him being a Captain Rainbow themed trophy. While Greninja appears as a Big Lipped Alligator Moment! Japanese themed fighter, it's still a moot point since he originated from an international franchise and ninjas are no way related in samurai from a historical standpoint. There's still the Mii Shiruken issue, but there's still chance that his' can function differently since they could be more realistically sized and his throwing knifes are strictly forbidden due to the "no realistic gun/knifes" rule that Sakurai went by since Melee.

I could due an analysis for other retro Nintendo franchises like Mach Rider, but I only limited myself to the ones that had GBA port since plenty of research had to be done for such an analysis. While no retro could fall under the category of a "shoo-in" (Since barely anyone asked for G & W and R.O.B. and Pit had modest requests), there are a wide variety of characters to choose form and they have their own merits and their own flaws.

 

[Shroob]

I'll flat out say, all the toxicity that was spewed out today made the reveals a lot less hype for me.

 

[Maxilian]

I'll flat out say, all the toxicity that was spewed out today made the reveals a lot less hype for me.

Imo it was almost the same as what we had before, in the end most of the people were happy with the characters we got today

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Spoiler

I believe this is it.

Already a problem, isn't there?

Pikachu and Greninja switch places.

 

[Shroob]

I

Imo it was almost the same as what we had before, in the end most of the people were happy with the characters we got today

I dunno. I'm honestly feeling rather depressed after seeing so much hate spewed today.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

and long hair

Well... K. K. Roll have 2 playstiles: one based on the Boss fight of DK64, and you know what we already have a boxer and then you have the normal brute force type of character and guess who's like that? (You could also say the Pirate fight, well... there's no much that you can take out from it -well a really cool pirate skin- ) and Dixie could be a air based figther

I'm afraid the title of new air fighter will be took by Ridley
Anyway, I think people are overrating the chorus men, I always saw them unlikely, Why? If Sakurai had troubles with the Ice Climbers, he would have had even more troubles with Chorus Men, so I think Marshall or whatever the series has, is more likely in my eyes

 

[Maxilian]

I'm afraid the title of new air fighter will be took by Ridley
Anyway, I think people are overrating the chorus men, I always saw them unlikely, Why? If Sakurai had troubles with the Ice Climbers, he would have had even more troubles with Chorus Men, so I think Marshall or whatever the series has, is more likely in my eyes

True, but if i'm pretty sure the problem was solven? why... Rosalina (also Chorus Men could be a 3 units but only 1 hitbox)

 

[Nu~]

I

I dunno. I'm honestly feeling rather depressed after seeing so much hate spewed today.

Chrom hate, chorus kids hate...It's honestly just usual smashboards. Well chorus kid hate may be a bit new

 

[ultimatekoopa]

True, but if i'm pretty sure the problem was solven? why... Rosalina (also Chorus Men could be a 3 units but only 1 hitbox)

I'm not a developer but I'm sure that it is harder to to make 3 characters than 2 characters, add to that some kind of rhythm moveset and I think it would be hard to develop

 

[Zzuxon]

The chorus kids most likely won't be 3 characters from a mechanical perspective, just 1 unusually shaped hitbox.
They couldn't be any harder than Rosalina or Robin.

 

[BKupa666]

My verdict: Gematsu isn't dead, but we know now for sure that it's incomplete, and potentially also flawed with its remaining two characters, Lucas, and DLC as well. Definitely good news for every character other than Shulk and Chorus Men.

 

[Monkeymaner]

You know what I find funny, Intelligence systems has two franchises they are well known for Fire emblem and Advance wars....
How did fire emblem get 4 reps before advance wars got 1, Its not even that hard at this point just give Sami snakes's old move set and there ya go, fits the character anyways...

 

[shinhed-echi]

You know what I find funny, Intelligence systems has two franchises they are well known for Fire emblem and Advance wars....
How did fire emblem get 4 reps before advance wars got 1, Its not even that hard at this point just give Sami snakes's old move set and there ya go, fits the character anyways...

I keep asking myself this all day long. It's not even funny.

Yeah, Andy or Sami could either take over Snake's attacks (same power, less weight), or he could use the AW infantry to attack.

But for the sake of not making it look as if he's playing with toys, using Snake's moveset works best.

 

[Monkeymaner]

I keep asking myself this all day long. It's not even funny.

Yeah, Andy or Sami could either take over Snake's attacks (same power, less weight), or he could use the AW infantry to attack.

But for the sake of not making it look as if he's playing with toys, using Snake's moveset works best.

Yeah, I love advance wars and want to see it done justice, on the bright side its in the same boat as golden sun where the AT has not been shown and i doubt that a series like that would be ditched for smash for so i have my hopes up for finally an advance wars rep!

 

[UltimateWario]

How? he would be unique in looks, but in what else can he be unique compared to Dixie? having in mind how each character would fight, Dixie is way more unique than K. K. Rool

Without getting into specifics, I think K. Rool has a huge leap on being unique simply because he doesn't share his exact body type and 90% of abilities with another character.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Yeah, I love advance wars and want to see it done justice, on the bright side its in the same boat as golden sun where the AT has not been shown and i doubt that a series like that would be ditched for smash for so i have my hopes up for finally an advance wars rep!

Maybe it's just my logic tingling, but why doesn't Sakurai look at each of Nintendo's sub-companies' other work to see what more they came up with?

Fire Emblem> Advance Wars
Legend of Zelda> Nazo no Murasame Jo
Punch Out> StarTropics
(The latter isreally wishful thinking because Sakurai's not going to include another Punch Out character anytime soon anyway).


In any case, I hope to see the GBA bros (Andy + Isaac) on this roster. They owe it to two successful franchises from the past, even if they're not successful right NOW.

 

[Monkeymaner]

Maybe it's just my logic tingling, but why doesn't Sakurai look at each of Nintendo's sub-companies' other work to see what more they came up with?

Fire Emblem> Advance Wars
Legend of Zelda> Nazo no Murasame Jo
Punch Out> StarTropics
(The latter isreally wishful thinking because Sakurai's not going to include another Punch Out character anytime soon anyway).


In any case, I hope to see the GBA bros (Andy + Isaac) on this roster. They owe it to two successful franchises from the past, even if they're not successful right NOW.

Hey if they put an advance wars character in smash it will have a fire emblem effect and give them a reason to make more games of the series and so on and so forth, I just want to see more series playable and not ones with a lot of reps

 

[JamesDNaux]

I would far prefer Lip as the second franchise rep from IS. Poor Lip was ripped from her own franchise and they should be ashamed.

 

[epicgordan]

Pic of the day: Jigglypuff is confirmed. Notice how after all these years, she never changes her pose a single time?
....Nah, I'm predicting a POTD on one of the newcomers--most likely Robin.

EDIT: Woops! Wrong thread. Sorry. Still, it was about the characters, right?

EDIT 2: Anyways, pic of the day is three pics all about Lucina. Yes, she is a newcomer; not an alternate costume. In fact, Sakurai listed the notable differences: She is slightly shorter than Marth, and while the sweet spot for Marth is in the tip, Lucina's full strength is distributed throughout the blade, essentially making her a Lucina for beginners-type of deal. In addition, Sakurai made it abundantly clear the difference between Lucina and the other alternate skins essentially saying that when it comes to different forms, so long as the two characters that seem almost completely identical have even the most minor of differences, they will be their own character rather than an alt, comparing her status to those of Male WFT, Villagers, Female Robin, and Little Mac.

Also, Sakurai's detail is so precise that even though he doubts you will ever notice it, Lucina has a unique marking in her eyes (don't know what it is; I never played Fire Emblem: Awakening). That, and Sakurai seems to be having fun now making fun of Marth's effeminate appearance.

My comment was originally a goof, so hopefully, this will make up for it.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Lucina is her own slot, as most of us suspected.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

You know what I find funny, Intelligence systems has two franchises they are well known for Fire emblem and Advance wars....
How did fire emblem get 4 reps before advance wars got 1, Its not even that hard at this point just give Sami snakes's old move set and there ya go, fits the character anyways...

IS has let AW fall by the wayside, its characters arent exactly as iconic either. They said they would get to making another when the time is right, doesnt sound like anytime soon.

And hell no, dont start parting out snakes moveset to other characters, its a disservice to the character and the newcomer who wouldnt be uniquely their own thing from the get go.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Lucina is her own slot, as most of us suspected.

I was gonna say, at least that's been cleared up. Thank you for the actually informative pic of the day, Sakurai! Though that begs the question: Why is Lucina in the game? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for all of the Lucina-fans out here today, but her execution doesn't quite add up.

It doesn't seem very appropriate that we've been getting nothing but unique character after unique character this game, only to suddenly be shown a clone before the game is even out. I can't imagine she was planned to be added as a clone from the start, so what gives?

Was she originally an alternate for Marth? If she was supposedly made as an alternate outfit in mind for Marth, what brought her towards having to have all of these changes in her moveset? Scaling her model so that she reaches Marth's height wouldn't have been that hard, so it's not like they had to make her separate just to accommodate for a female Marth.

No, it's gotta be something else. See, I have a theory that would not only explain Lucina's presence, but explain why Gematsu is still to be trusted (though not treated as gospel). Essentially, it goes like this:

• Chrom is conceived during middle of development on request of Intelligent Systems
• Smash Team is hard-pressed on thinking of a creative moveset that would rival the rest of the newcomers in the game
• Idea springs up to make Chrom pair with Robin, as Chrom's moveset being a clone of Marth's being justified as still unique if using the Pair Up system with Robin
  
• Plan to make Lucina/Female Robin as alternate costume for Chrom/Robin after most of completion
• Playtesting shows that, just like Diddy/Dixie concept in Brawl, asymmetrical duos do not balance well
• Chrom and Robin pairing is scrapped, but Robin's moveset is still unique enough to where team decided to focus on Robin alone instead
• The original Final Smash Chrom/Robin had is carried over to Robin, summoning Chrom to fulfill the same purpose
• "What do we do with this leftover data if we're already using Chrom?" "Why don't we make it another character?" "Sounds economic enough!"
• "Lucina alt" of Chrom is given final touches and made as the leftover data of Chrom, thus birthing "Lucina the Character"

This would explain why Lucina doesn't match Marth's attributes and wasn't scaled to match his model, why Chrom would be a part of Robin's Final Smash, why Gematsu originally understood Chrom to be a character by himself, why Lucina doesn't have a unique moveset, and why Lucina was molded into being her own character rather than being grafted last minute onto Marth. Lucina may not have been added for being Lucina, but rather, for being able to save all the time and effort that was put into Chrom without having to further change around two characters. It's a little left-field of a theory, but I think it fills in a lot of holes for both Lucina and Gematsu.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

It's pretty weird that Lucina was revealed already. I'm sure we're not getting any more FE characters, so I expect Lucina (and probably Ike) to be hidden.

It's obvious that a few of the characters we've seen so far are not going to be available on the starting roster; I wonder why Sakurai has changed his stance on hidden characters. I'm sure there will be some not revealed, but at this rate we're only going to have maybe 6-8 left unknown before the game comes out, with possibly no hidden newcomers at all.

 

[Curious Villager]

Why do some of us act like clones/semi clones never happened before in this series? Especially since most of them usually show up after release and are usually unlockable characters hidden away from the general public until after the games first release while most of the more unique characters get revealed first.....

Spoiler

In fact, I'm more surprised that we already got two confirmed before the Japanese release.... :T

Ah well, I guess Rosalina shot people's hopes up for a "no clone newcomers" Smash a bit too much.... Eh oh well... :/

 

[Shorts]

My verdict: Gematsu isn't dead, but we know now for sure that it's incomplete, and potentially also flawed with its remaining two characters, Lucas, and DLC as well. Definitely good news for every character other than Shulk and Chorus Men.

I can see getting mixed up with Chrom / Lucina / Robin all being part of Smash in some way, but I can't see Shulk being a mistake. Who knows, maybe Chrom was the clone choice at one point, and Lucina was part of Robin's FS? They could have EASILY been switched

 

[Thedude3445]

Yeah. Most I could see is 54 and random.

55 and random. It'll be 55 characters just to mess up the whole square.

 

[BKupa666]

I can see getting mixed up with Chrom / Lucina / Robin all being part of Smash in some way, but I can't see Shulk being a mistake. Who knows, maybe Chrom was the clone choice at one point, and Lucina was part of Robin's FS? They could have EASILY been switched

I thought at first he confused Lucina for Chrom and Robin for Shulk. But this morning, Sal got an email from his source claiming "Nintendo keeps secrets from Namco, Shulk is 100% still in, but Sakurai changed his mind on the reveal."

He's definitely not mixing up Shulk and Robin, and one non-listed character is all it takes to open the door for a few other "secrets" like him.

EDIT: Good theory, GRC, but Robin initially being "Chrom and Robin" doesn't explain how the source missed the Robin part of the duo.