Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics

[Sonicninja115]

We could just say "bad" gimmicks and "good" gimmicks if totally necessary.

 

[Pazzo.]

We could just say "bad" gimmicks and "good" gimmicks if totally necessary.

The problem is, gimmick, by it's definition, is bad already.

It's a rough anagram of the word "magic", and implies a trick or farce. In other words, not legitimate.

But I'm digressing at this point. We need to get back on topic.

 

[Ffamran]

A thought to ponder: what if there were more unblockable attacks? So far, as far as I know, Final Smashes, Little Mac's KO, Ryu's Focus Attack, Bowser and Yoshi's Bowser/Yoshi Bombs?, and some other move I can't remember are unblockable. This ignores command grabs for obvious reasons. Now, from the transition from Brawl to Smash 4, some characters were given more armor-like traits to their moves like Roy gaining armor on his grounded Blazer from Melee to Smash 4, Ganondorf gaining armor on his grounded Warlock Punch, the Pits along with an alteration to their Side Specials, gained armor, the Mario characters gaining I-frames to their Up Smashes? - not sure if that existed in previous games -, and Little Mac basically being armor, the character. In Brawl - probably wrong about this -, Ike was introduced as the character with an armored move, Aether - I might be missing someone and I don't count Yoshi's double jump. After that, more characters in Smash 4 were given armor, especially if those moves were very high risk and high reward like Ganondorf's Warlock Punch.

Now, what if other high risk or rather, high startup moves were unblockable? I ask this because someone made a post somewhere wondering why Triple D's fully charged Jet Hammer can't break shields in one-shot and then I connected this with Soul Calibur and Tekken having unblockable attacks and as far as I know, all those unblockable attacks have very high startup or can be charged to be unblockable. So, what if say, moves like Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch, DK's Giant Punch, Ganondorf's Warlock Punch and Utilt, Volcano Kick, Ike's fully-charged grounded Eruption, Triple D's fully-charged Jet Hammer, Kirby's fully-charged grounded Hammer Flip, the Link's Spin Attack, Lucas's fully charged PK Freeze?, Ness's fully charged PK Flash?, and Roy's fully-charged grounded Flare Blade were all unblockable? To give the victims a chance, while they are unblockable, they can be perfect shielded. The idea is giving an incentive to use these moves and having them function in a flashy, ultimate move way could be really fun to watch. Unblockables could also be separated between completely unblockable like KO Punch or straightup shield killers so unless you perfect shield it, then it's going to wreck your shield like Warlock Punch which already does this at times, but could be given something to make it truly unblockable. This could also extend to some Smash attacks like Ike and Triple D's Side Smash and Lucas's Up Smash, but only when fully charged. Or even all Smash attacks - insane route here - so long as they're fully charged, but I could see some exceptions like maybe the invincible Up Smashes of Mario, Luigi, etc. can't or Little Mac's can't because they already have some other property on their Smashes.

 

[meleebrawler]

A thought to ponder: what if there were more unblockable attacks? So far, as far as I know, Final Smashes, Little Mac's KO, Ryu's Focus Attack, Bowser and Yoshi's Bowser/Yoshi Bombs?, and some other move I can't remember are unblockable. This ignores command grabs for obvious reasons. Now, from the transition from Brawl to Smash 4, some characters were given more armor-like traits to their moves like Roy gaining armor on his grounded Blazer from Melee to Smash 4, Ganondorf gaining armor on his grounded Warlock Punch, the Pits along with an alteration to their Side Specials, gained armor, the Mario characters gaining I-frames to their Up Smashes? - not sure if that existed in previous games -, and Little Mac basically being armor, the character. In Brawl - probably wrong about this -, Ike was introduced as the character with an armored move, Aether - I might be missing someone and I don't count Yoshi's double jump. After that, more characters in Smash 4 were given armor, especially if those moves were very high risk and high reward like Ganondorf's Warlock Punch.

Now, what if other high risk or rather, high startup moves were unblockable? I ask this because someone made a post somewhere wondering why Triple D's fully charged Jet Hammer can't break shields in one-shot and then I connected this with Soul Calibur and Tekken having unblockable attacks and as far as I know, all those unblockable attacks have very high startup or can be charged to be unblockable. So, what if say, moves like Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch, DK's Giant Punch, Ganondorf's Warlock Punch and Utilt, Volcano Kick, Ike's fully-charged grounded Eruption, Triple D's fully-charged Jet Hammer, Kirby's fully-charged grounded Hammer Flip, the Link's Spin Attack, Lucas's fully charged PK Freeze?, Ness's fully charged PK Flash?, and Roy's fully-charged grounded Flare Blade were all unblockable? To give the victims a chance, while they are unblockable, they can be perfect shielded. The idea is giving an incentive to use these moves and having them function in a flashy, ultimate move way could be really fun to watch. Unblockables could also be separated between completely unblockable like KO Punch or straightup shield killers so unless you perfect shield it, then it's going to wreck your shield like Warlock Punch which already does this at times, but could be given something to make it truly unblockable. This could also extend to some Smash attacks like Ike and Triple D's Side Smash and Lucas's Up Smash, but only when fully charged. Or even all Smash attacks - insane route here - so long as they're fully charged, but I could see some exceptions like maybe the invincible Up Smashes of Mario, Luigi, etc. can't or Little Mac's can't because they already have some other property on their Smashes.

All this would hardly change anything. Most of those moves are still nearly impossible to land and unlike Soulcalibur and Tekken, evasion is very easy on top of all the means to attack safely from a distance. Also if Yoshi/Bowser Bombs are unblockable then Volcano Kick is too, because that also breaks shields in one hit (although Yoshi Bomb doesn't one shot unless the grounded version hits completely). Now, if Disable was unblockable, on the other hand...

Here's a list of true unblockables:
Little Mac's KO Uppercut and Guard Breaker (Side B 3)
Palutena's Reflect Barrier
Pac-Man's Pac-Jump (technically isn't but the jump forces them out of shield)
Shulk's Vision
Meta Knight's 2nd Down B custom
Ryu's Level 3 Focus Attack

 

[BetaDjinn]

2¢ on 'gimmicks' in Sm4sh: This game May have more gimmicks than Melee or Brawl, but they have a decidedly lesser impact.

Melee in particular has a highly varied top/high tier with more extreme strengths. Each character thrived off of its unique tools, be it 's laser, 's sword, 's air game, 's offstage game, or having a flipping clone of yourself that can help you perform guaranteed 0-deaths .

When it comes to Sm4sh, the unique traits are ubiquitous, but have a far diminished impact on gameplay and matchups. The old 'gimmicks' are a far cry of their former glory (bananas, pikmin, lasers, shines, gimps, ), and the new ones, while very visible, simply do not have that same game-changing impact. Luma, Waft, Aura, and KO Punch are the only real game-changers I can think of off the top of my head.

What this has resulted in, IMO, is a game that is more balanced in the standard sense, but less balanced in a different way. It is more balanced in the sense that matchups aren't as polarized and the cast has more top-to-bottom viability. However, in my humble opinion, it is less balanced when it comes to choosing one character over another. We've seen this when discussing and . Both characters are totally viable high tier characters with nice, mild matchup spreads. But, their power is perceived much lower, since the question is immediately raised, "Why not just play ?" Really, there's not a great answer to that question from a purely competitive standpoint. She has a similar matchup spread with no weaknesses, but she's also just better. I personally think the game could use more meaningful variety, not just window dressing like Monados or the Levin Sword.

Sorry for the long post

 

[Planty]

It isn't zoning, it isn't rush down, it isn't bait and punish or hit and run... I don't know what it is called but he continuously forces you into trap situations with his tools that allow him to transition into a heavily damaging offensive game.

If Pac-man's playstyle is what you describe it as, it's called a "vortex-based character".

 

[Skeeter Mania]

2¢ on 'gimmicks' in Sm4sh: This game May have more gimmicks than Melee or Brawl, but they have a decidedly lesser impact.

Melee in particular has a highly varied top/high tier with more extreme strengths. Each character thrived off of its unique tools, be it 's laser, 's sword, 's air game, 's offstage game, or having a flipping clone of yourself that can help you perform guaranteed 0-deaths .

When it comes to Sm4sh, the unique traits are ubiquitous, but have a far diminished impact on gameplay and matchups. The old 'gimmicks' are a far cry of their former glory (bananas, pikmin, lasers, shines, gimps, ), and the new ones, while very visible, simply do not have that same game-changing impact. Luma, Waft, Aura, and KO Punch are the only real game-changers I can think of off the top of my head.

What this has resulted in, IMO, is a game that is more balanced in the standard sense, but less balanced in a different way. It is more balanced in the sense that matchups aren't as polarized and the cast has more top-to-bottom viability. However, in my humble opinion, it is less balanced when it comes to choosing one character over another. We've seen this when discussing and . Both characters are totally viable high tier characters with nice, mild matchup spreads. But, their power is perceived much lower, since the question is immediately raised, "Why not just play ?" Really, there's not a great answer to that question from a purely competitive standpoint. She has a similar matchup spread with no weaknesses, but she's also just better. I personally think the game could use more meaningful variety, not just window dressing like Monados or the Levin Sword.

Sorry for the long post

I suppose this also raises the question "Why is more options a good thing for a game?"

 

[Nobie]

I suppose this also raises the question "Why is more options a good thing for a game?"

Welcome to the classic (bad) argument for why Melee is better than Smash 4 (MORE ADVANCED TECHNIQUES MEANS MORE OPTIONS MEANS GREAT GAME).

 

[C0rvus]

When you bury the Rock-Paper-Scissors dynamic under too many layers, it can get in the way. On the same coin, not enough and it may become too simple. At it's most basic level, Smash Bros is like playing Rock Paper Scissors and flipping coins many, many times in a row.

Balance is hard.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Having more options is always a nice thing, but if you give a character too much utility it can lead to some abusive things. I could talk about how silly Melee Fox actually is, but maybe a more relevant example would be appropriate. So...Sheik. She thrives on options. She has different options for throws, follow ups from those throws, a plethora of safe moves to throw out in close, mid, and long range, and multiple kill options. This perhaps wouldn't be a bad thing if she only excelled in one or two key strengths with the remaining options supporting those things, but Sheik excels at nearly everything in this game. Then you have characters that are restricted to just a couple of decent options that make their neutral really straight forward, where with a few exceptions those small set of options aren't really strong enough to carry the character in higher levels of play.

Little Mac? Amazing at low levels of play. His freakishly strong set of ground options make him a menace. As you start going higher up, you don't see very many dedicated Mac players because they aren't strong enough to offset his weaknesses in most match-ups, and at best leave you with a powerful but incredibly volatile character on your hands.

Going outside of the competitive theory, I think there's also the fun factor to consider. Having more options means your character can do more things in the same situation, and while I do think there's such a thing as having too much utility, having too little utility means you have to react the same way in the same situations every single time. Your character becomes more linear and straightforward, and without anything to set them apart from other characters why would you stick with that character aside from loyalty?

Take Jigglypuff, for example. She's probably a unique case in that she does have a lot that sets her apart from most of the cast, with the heavy focus on air mobility and having some volatile options...but that's really it. She's forced to play the aerial game and bait for early rest kills, and that's simply not powerful enough in this game to warrant using her. It's different in Melee because her tools work significantly better in that game (a mix of rest being stronger and having set-ups for it, and the game mechanics making her aerial gameplay on the verge of being broken).

I like Jigglypuff, but I can only stand using her for so long before I get frustrated, because her character design is inherently limited in this game. It's getting into game design at this point, but you have to strike a balance between the number of options and the power of those options.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I suppose this also raises the question "Why is more options a good thing for a game?"

more things to do.

I have nothing much to say honestly.

 

[Ffamran]

All this would hardly change anything. Most of those moves are still nearly impossible to land and unlike Soulcalibur and Tekken, evasion is very easy on top of all the means to attack safely from a distance. Also if Yoshi/Bowser Bombs are unblockable then Volcano Kick is too, because that also breaks shields in one hit (although Yoshi Bomb doesn't one shot unless the grounded version hits completely). Now, if Disable was unblockable, on the other hand...

Here's a list of true unblockables:
Little Mac's KO Uppercut and Guard Breaker (Side B 3)
Palutena's Reflect Barrier
Pac-Man's Pac-Jump (technically isn't but the jump forces them out of shield)
Shulk's Vision
Meta Knight's 2nd Down B custom
Ryu's Level 3 Focus Attack

I know it wouldn't change much, but it would give sort of a safety net? - can't think of the word or phrase -, so that if you use the move and it lands, it's guaranteed unless you perfect shield it. Even with more flexible movement options in Smash, unblockables and slower moves in Soul Calibur and Tekken probably aren't used outside of reads and basically bluffs since you can cancel some of them or chance that your opponent mistimes and runs into a powerful attack.

 

[outfoxd]

I know it wouldn't change much, but it would give sort of a safety net? - can't think of the word or phrase -, so that if you use the move and it lands, it's guaranteed unless you perfect shield it. Even with more flexible movement options in Smash, unblockables and slower moves in Soul Calibur and Tekken probably aren't used outside of reads and basically bluffs since you can cancel some of them or chance that your opponent mistimes and runs into a powerful attack.

My main in Tekken, Dragunov has a relatively quick mid hitting unblockable that doesn't hit hard but hits middling fast (Idk, been awhile since I played). One of the reasons Tekken (Virtua Fighter too) makes use of these kinds of moves is probably related to blockstrings and attack heights. in Smash you don't have to worry about your grab whiffing because they crouched it (For most people. Sorry WFT and Falcon against Kirby). Unblockables I can throw out after I've conditioned an opponent slapping their guard around and frame trapping them sometimes. Definitely a weird interaction based on the complexion of 3d fighting games.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Welcome to the classic (bad) argument for why Melee is better than Smash 4

Need I ask why?

 

[Megamang]

This thread isnt about melee vs sm4sh, please dont start that.


You guys see how good yoshi's SHAD uair is? Im thinking about using him as a secondary, he has those polarizing strengths that really pull thru in some matchups.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Exactly, the only important Melee - Smash 4 comparsion is that Mew2king is the god of competitive smash in Melee, whereas he's the god of quitting the tournament in Smash 4

 

[Skeeter Mania]

This thread isnt about melee vs sm4sh, please dont start that.


You guys see how good yoshi's SHAD uair is? Im thinking about using him as a secondary, he has those polarizing strengths that really pull thru in some matchups.

Yeah, I've seen The Wall utilize it heavily in his gameplay (SHAD Nair is also pretty good). Plus it wouldn't surprise me if a Pika main secondaried Yoshi (ESAM and a few Pika mains on the boards have already done this).

 

[Peppermint1201]

So Tweek just beat Nakat 2-0 and ViceGrip just beat Tyrant 2-1, with game 3 being a 2-stock. Now, we obviously can't make judgments based on a few sets, but there is certainly something to be discussed here. Is Bowser Jr good? How much so?

 

[Ghostbone]

I doubt Tyrant has ever played before Bowser Jr before in his life lol.

 

[Wintropy]

My opinion on Junior hasn't changed in the past several months:

I think he's a character with good potential if people are willing to invest the time into him, but his relatively technical playstyle means not many people will go to the effort. That and I think his optimal potential, while better than is often given credit for (sets like these prove a competent player can get stuff done with him), still isn't good enough to justify putting that kind of work in.

I don't think he's a bad character by any means, he's got some good stage control and trap setups going on that embellish his good disjointed game and the shieldstun mechanics making him a tiny bit safer, but I think he's held back by a few significant flaws: namely his frame data, shield safety (it's better, but I don't think by much), grab game and dearth of options in neutral. I think that, for the time you have to put in to him to figure out how everything in his kit fits together, you're getting a decent but still fundamentally underwhelming reward.

Take this thesis with a grain of salt - it's been a while since I've really examined Junior.

 

[Luco]

Caution: Ffamran tier wall o' text ahead!!



To an extent, I do think the roster is quite fixated on individual mechanics or unique trait.
And I think that's what the dev's are trying to remedy in the form of patches. We've already seen countless changes to characters who's gimmicks were too polarizing (Diddy, luigi, rosa...), the pattern is there.
But is it a potential weakness...I would say that it depends on both the strength of the trait and the weakness of the other attributes of the characer. Luigi has awful mobility and terrible traction, but his reward was SO POWERFUL that it almost didn't matter. Pre patch Diddy was another example of a character who revolved around one powerful tool, but what made him stupid was the fact that the rest of his moveset wasn't weak enough to compensate. Even with his pre patch dash attack and jab, his moveset was oppressive all around. I see no problem with having an aspect that makes a characer unique however, it's fun to have diversity in the roster.

Funny you mentioned pacman because I was just thinking about something related to the topic at hand. Is pacman overly reliant on fruit/hydrant zoning? I think so, but only if he continues to be played the way Abadango and many others did/do currently.

He isn't being played to his strengths because well...Pac-Man is not a zoner. In fact, he's terrible at zoning and more people will realize this as time goes along.

Now before many of you unsheathe your keyboards and angrily explain how I am wrong, I want to explain why he isn't the characer we initially thought he was.

Unfortunately, many of us Pac-Mains have adopted a game of "set up a fortress and run" as a primary focus in nuetral. This goes against the natural strengths of the character. Pacman isn't a real zoner because fruit and hydrants aren't built for keeping people out. Fruit come out on frame 12, have an FAF of 45, 5 of them bounce off of shields which allow opponents to easily catch them, and they lose to most attacks when thrown. You can't dream of zoning an opponent out with data like this. Same with hydrant. Loses to any attack when launched, can be sent back to us by the opponent, and fast characters can straight up quantum tunnel right through it (man that is a dumb mechanic).
All of these flaws lead many pacman mains to lean heavily on gimmicky, complex, and all around situational setups to keep the opponent out. It became the bulk of our gameplan. It sort of covers up the flaws of his individual "camp tools".

But we've neglected our normals, our z drop game, our offensive game...we've put too much into one inefficient gameplan.
The way I see our fruit and hydrant tools is the same way I view spin dash. Spin dash is also misinterpreted as sonic's only gimmick. The famous "Spin2Win" strategy of FG newbies.

In reality, spin dash is a weak move when used this way. It loses to most attacks, can be punished by OoS aerials, disjoints give it hell...sound familiar? For sonic, spin dash is only meant to compliment his game play. It forces you to keep guessing sonic's next move and punishes you heavily for overextending and guessing wrong. Pac-Man's tools are the same way, but complement a different style of play.

It isn't zoning, it isn't rush down, it isn't bait and punish or hit and run... I don't know what it is called but he continuously forces you into trap situations with his tools that allow him to transition into a heavily damaging offensive game. An example of this can be how the trampoline is downright broken when used to limit options on the ledge, but rather weak when used against a rush down characer to slow down an approach in nuetral. We should have a free combo on the opponent when ever the trampoline launches them into the air instead of simply waiting on the other side and b-airing them back to the other side.

His normals are further proof of this. He was given average moves all around because his traps + better normals would have been too oppressive. His grab is trash because his z drop fruit pressure already handles it. Oh...and for some reason, fruit are indestructible when z dropped.

A better analogy for those of you that have played yugioh is that Pac-Man is like an Aggro/stun deck (my favorite type!)
Using stun as a means to limit all of your opponent's options so you can relentlessly beat them down. People are currently focusing too heavily on the stun aspect.

Pacman9 takin' up the mantle of game-breaking posts that'll change the way we view things in this thread. Good stuff, I love the thought process. :D

Now on the subject of "gimmicks"... I see the connotations surrounding this word as somewhat of a contributing factor to why people don't like certain characters (and thus certain humour - "And the winner is... ME!" (ohohoho) ) - I ask though, even competitive players find things they don't like and label as such, probably using the new word without any regard to why it was created. What's to stop any new word gaining the same connotations over time?

A quick example might be that we re-label it as 'trait'. Someone sees MK Uair string into upB and goes "that ****ing "trait" of his..." (probably with some disdain for what they see as the concept of creating that word) and suddenly the train of ironic usage starts.

On the subject of 'how many options are good for a game', I really like C0rvus 's perspective on it, but I also think there's a lot of personal preference involved (this may delve into red areas of discussion if we're not careful, so I'd like to keep this short). My brother and I were discussing some differences in Brawl and Smash 4 and he felt the availability of options like DACUS and glide tossing catered more to his 'body' style of play (we had only just talked about the concepts of body, heart and brain players) which he felt made it more interesting to play and watch. I mentioned smash 4 as a game seems to have toned down on any 'body' focus the previous smash games had (probably a first in the series, though Brawl was possibly intended to be this way too) in favour of balance of the 3 styles with a larger flavour of heart and brain than anything else (I seem to recall someone else said pretty much the exact same thing earlier), making things like watching for people making reads and capitalising on them very interesting to watch for me.

 

[warionumbah2]

And ito beat vicegrip before 2-0, seems to be a trend. Ito is out doing tyrant over and over.

 

[TriTails]

And ito beat vicegrip before 2-0, seems to be a trend. Ito is out doing tyrant over and over.

Also, MU experience is a must when fighting BowJow. I faced a good BowJow online and had no idea what to do.

Also, your sig is the best thing ever existed.

 

[BSP]

All this would hardly change anything. Most of those moves are still nearly impossible to land and unlike Soulcalibur and Tekken, evasion is very easy on top of all the means to attack safely from a distance. Also if Yoshi/Bowser Bombs are unblockable then Volcano Kick is too, because that also breaks shields in one hit (although Yoshi Bomb doesn't one shot unless the grounded version hits completely). Now, if Disable was unblockable, on the other hand...

Here's a list of true unblockables:
Little Mac's KO Uppercut and Guard Breaker (Side B 3)
Palutena's Reflect Barrier
Pac-Man's Pac-Jump (technically isn't but the jump forces them out of shield)
Shulk's Vision
Meta Knight's 2nd Down B custom
Ryu's Level 3 Focus Attack

The water from Pac-Man's hydrant is unblockable too. IIRC he's the only fighter with windboxes that push you even if you shield. I could be wrong though. I haven't looked into windboxes of other characters that much.

 

[Luco]

Oh my gosh Mars almost sending Nairo to losers right there and then. Those reads were outstanding on his part, he's got the most beautifully fresh playstyle. Oof.

I could be wrong but as far as I know most, if not all windboxes work on shields as well?

 

[Nobie]

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to make it about Smash 4 vs. Melee, but rather that talking about number of options is a dangerous path to lead down to, outside of either a very general or extremely specific sense.

This is somewhat off topic, but I think in terms of the whole trickiness of balance, one thing to take into acocunt is that characters are designed to function with and without items. Ganondorf's item swings are crazy fast (his beam saber jab is both fast and long-ranged), different characters carry crates at different speeds, etc. I don't know how much it actually balances out overall, of course.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I know it wouldn't change much, but it would give sort of a safety net? - can't think of the word or phrase -, so that if you use the move and it lands, it's guaranteed unless you perfect shield it. Even with more flexible movement options in Smash, unblockables and slower moves in Soul Calibur and Tekken probably aren't used outside of reads and basically bluffs since you can cancel some of them or chance that your opponent mistimes and runs into a powerful attack.

Nitpicking a bit, but if a move is truly unblockable, you can't shield it. Instead it just...ignores the shield entirely. Not even a shield break. This also means you can't counterattack them, since they run off of the same flag. If you want to allow perfect shields, then you just add a lot of shield damage. (5-Volt does this -- she shatters shields instantly, even Hyper Shield Shulk, but you can powershield her and remain safe, or use a counterattack.)

 

[dansal]

I like the way you think Fframran, but i'd take away the ability to perfect shield unblockable attacks. I mean, isn't an entire 60 frames (or more) long enough to move out of the way?

While we're wishing, I'd also love for certain melee attacks to ignore perfect shielding (i.e. they are always blocked normally.)

 

[Sonicninja115]

Oi, this thread is off topic.

What's the current consensus on Pika? I feel like he is top 5, but it is also said that he isn't even in the top 10.

 

[C0rvus]

Literally the only things that could hold him back are range and killing. No real setups I can think of, but his edgeguarding is some of the best in the game. Quick Attack still seems super safe and he's got top tier mobility as well. ESAM puts in work, but rep for him drops off after that, so it's hard to say. ESAM is always overrating his mains but I do think Pika is legitimately good. He just isn't as oppressive as most of the top characters (although optimal Pika might be).

 

[thehard]

KTAR top 8:

1st Liquid' Nairo

2nd NE | Marss

3rd #THE Tweek

4th NE L1 | Koolaid

5th AA | Angel Cortes

5th #THE LoF False

7th iQHQ | DKwill

7th Dugan

I heard Vinnie was eliminated early by ADHD's ZSS.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

but it is also said that he isn't even in the top 10.

I can understand not Top 5, but I feel this is going too far, even with his (actually not so much) lackluster rep.

 

[wedl!!]

New England not lookin so free anymore eh???

Wish I could go to events. ;_;

 

[Nu~]

Can we talk about how Koolaid stomped false's sheik in a 2-0 with none other than the Pac-Man?

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Can we talk about how Koolaid stomped false's sheik in a 2-0 with none other than the Pac-Man?

How is he compared to Aba and Zage?

 

[Illuminose]

koolaid is undoubtedly better than Zage id say, obv worse than aba but he has some interesting things like fair -> footstool down b. really needs to incorporate the galaga fruit tho.

 

[Aaron1997]

I've always thought that Pac-man did well against Sheik. Sheik can never safely knock away Hydrent and Fruit>Needles. The only reason why she wins is because its Sheik, cant really explain that.

Koolaid really needs to use galaga more. He is really missing out on a lot of z-drop and not using Hydrent traps enough.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I noticed Emblemlord (mainly online smasher, big on anthers) took out Seagull Joe. That shocked me.

Also, this tournament is really showing more power to ZSS with Nairo, Marss, and ADHD

 

[The Wall]

Yeah, I've seen The Wall utilize it heavily in his gameplay (SHAD Nair is also pretty good). Plus it wouldn't surprise me if a Pika main secondaried Yoshi (ESAM and a few Pika mains on the boards have already done this).

It really only gets you so far though. Yeah it's a good tool but one of those things you need to just add to the repertoire and not spam as your god given only approach option.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I noticed Emblemlord (mainly online smasher, big on anthers) took out Seagull Joe. That shocked me.

Also, this tournament is really showing more power to ZSS with Nairo, Marss, and ADHD

is broken.

Side note: Emblemlord is good. I should've been more patient, but I went in and he shoryuken'd my ass for it. I wish I had a to practice more-so against in my area, but there aren't any lol. I just go off what I know.