Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics

[CHOMPY]

Dark Pit/Pit is one of those character where people think he ranges from 10-15, while others feel he should be ranked 22-30. Because players like Nairo (early on) and Earth have put some results with Pit, players are under the impression that Pit is ranked 5-15. Pit is one of those characters that people will pocket for matchups they struggle in, but not as a character they use as their primary. Its like saying if ZeRo won tournaments with the nerf Diddy patch. Does that mean that Diddy is ranked #1 on the tier list because of the tournament results ZeRo has and the way he plays Diddy? Same applies for Wii Fit. If ANTi won tournaments with Wii Fit Trainer left and right, does that mean Wii Fit should be ranked top 15 because ANTi is one of the top 5 best players in the nation?

If you look at my analysis with the PR's, you'll notice how many Pits/Dark Pits are in the top 3.

I decided to gather up all of the information front page of the PR and tally up the amount of specific characters that placed first. That will also include their secondaries Remember that some of the rankings are outdated that some of them are under the Pre-Luigi patch as well.

Spoiler: 1st Place

1st.

- 11
- 9
- 7
- 7
- 7
- 6
- 5
- 5
- 5
- 5
- 5
- 3
- 3
- 3
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1

Spoiler: 2nd Place

- 11
- 8
- 6
- 6
- 5
- 5
- 4
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 3
- 3
- 3
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1

Spoiler: 3rd Place

- 9
- 9
- 8
- 6
- 6
- 5
- 5
- 4
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 3
- 3
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 2
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1
- 1

Don't get me wrong. I think Pit is a good character for what he's worth, but I can realistically see him range between high-low to mid-high range. Due to the early dthrow mixups, racking up damage quickly, fast running speed, godlike recovery (no hitbox), decent frame data, disjointed hitboxes, great range on his attack, and potentially gimp players offstage with arrows or aerials.

However, his lack of kill power, horrible aerial mobility, getting stage spiked (if your too close to the wall), start up frame data on his attacks takes a while, alright neutral, and being outclassed by many characters is what holds him back.

 

[Mr. ShinyUmbreon]

I agree with most of what you said CHOMPY . Though I think Pit has potential to be high tier. Only time will tell.
but I'm going to have to stop you at

his lack of kill power

F-throw, though admittedly, it's situational, your opponent has to be at the ledge for it to kill. Upperdash arm can catch landings, punish smash attacks and read rolls and spotdodges. Upsmash comes out on frame 6, though opponents can fall out. It can Hit underneath platforms on BF and Dreamland. And if all else fails, Downsmash comes out on frame 5, the first won't kill until 150-ish, but it's an option. (second hit kills much earlier, but it's hard to land). Overall, Pit has the same problem as Mario, They both have plenty of kill power, but it's all situational. In order for X move to kill, my opponent has to do X action. I've seen Ally let his opponents live till 170 at times because in order to kill, your opponent normally has to do something wrong. And in high level play, your opponent won't be making a lot of mistakes.

 

[Wintropy]

I think saying he's outclassed by "many characters" is overstating it. There's definitely a good few characters that have more evident strengths relative to Pit, and that is something that's important when you get to the highest level of the meta, but I think it's Pit's consistency that keeps him relevant.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's no matchup that Pit outright gets bodied in. I don't see how it's realistic for a character with no truly fatal weakness to have a hard counter. He has matchups where he won't necessarily win or even do very well in, by virtue of having no immediate strength to counter these (mostly higher or top-tier) characters, but dependability goes a ways in a meta where it's as much about surviving as it is about getting the kill (both in a practical and, in this case, abstract sense). Realistically, I don't think a good Pit should ever have to switch to a counterpick. The only matchups I can think of where he has genuine difficulty are a few of the top-tiers (Sheik and Sonic come to mind) - specifically the characters that mostly get beaten by other top-tiers, where it's not entirely feasible for most non-meta-defining high-tiers to win.

Even then, having a near-even (if slightly disadvantageous, depending on the character) matchup with Mario, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Diddy and Falcon (and debatably ZSS and Fox and probably others beyond that) is something not many characters can boast. It's not necessarily or objectively good, but it's definitely not bad. We've discussed before how Pit has no gatekeeper other than himself, and I think that's a very healthy position to be in. You should never have to feel compelled to switch characters if you're confident with Pit. I really do feel that if you're getting bodied with Pit, the impetus is on you as a player to try harder, and not a fault of the character.

I don't think there's much debate that Pit is a solid high-tier character, albeit not necessarily one of the better ones. He's got a great toolkit, a solid (if not especially exciting) matchup spread, good players repping him and a playstyle that reflects the potential of the player's fundamentals. There's nothing really objectively wrong with him or any Achilles's Heel that I think has to be patched before he can develop as a character.

No, what I feel holds the Pit meta back is the fact that there's just not many people playing Pit. It's a quality / quantity thing: most of the players that do play him at high-level are very, very good with him, but there's about, what, a handful at most? That's great, but it's not really going to keep the meta growing in a healthy and productive way, relative to the rest of the upper tiers. And at the risk of beating the decayed skeleton of this old horse, I think that's because there isn't much incentive to play him if you're not a fan of the character or you don't fear the potential inconsistency of other characters. He's still a fundamentally solid character, and I'd be willing to posit that he's definitely within the (very, very vague in its definiton, but for the sake of rhetoric, bear with me) top twenty characters in the game, by virtue of his consistency and the fact that his weaknesses don't outdo his strengths; I just don't think he has that much more room to grow right now, at least without getting better players to do more things with him.

It's not a million miles away from the Greninja concept, if I may be so bold as to say that: we've got a very respectable character that has the potential to be widely acknowledged as a viable threat, he's just held back by widespread indifference (or, gods forbid, ignorance) and a dearth of good representation. I'm optimistic that will change in future for both characters, because it'd be a shame for that potential to never be manifest due to basic disinterest.

EDIT: Yes my formatting in this post is ass but I don't have time to make it more presentable. I think it gets across the point I'm trying to make, if not in a very reader-friendly way.

 

[Megamang]

A difference i might point out greninja has a high skill barrier between learning his footstool stuff and playing with sup par OoS options. Both characters take skill and dedication, greninja also has a technical side (with high reward might i add).

 

[Pazzo.]

Pit's representation in popular competitive play has always confused me.

Here is a character with good matchups and tools, yet seems to be passed over in favor of others.

Perhaps our community needs to grow a little more.

 

[Megamang]

By grow, do you mean grow in maturity or grow in size?

If size is the issue, i agree with the theory oft posted that pit psychology leads people to shiek.

 

[C0rvus]

Yeah if you want an all-around character that doesn't leave you with major weaknesses and is rarely at a sizable disadvantage, then play Mario or Sheik. Pit is an afterthought. Not bashing the character, just making an observation. I still think the Pits are among the best secondaries in the game.

 

[Pazzo.]

By grow, do you mean grow in maturity or grow in size?

If size is the issue, i agree with the theory oft posted that pit psychology leads people to shiek.

I mean size.

Mind linking that theory?

 

[Wintropy]

A difference i might point out greninja has a high skill barrier between learning his footstool stuff and playing with sup par OoS options. Both characters take skill and dedication, greninja also has a technical side (with high reward might i add).

Oh, I know, it wasn't intended to be a direct comparison. Just that there's a superficial similarity in their degree of representation, relative to how effective they are competitively.

By grow, do you mean grow in maturity or grow in size?

If size is the issue, i agree with the theory oft posted that pit psychology leads people to shiek.

Yeah if you want an all-around character that doesn't leave you with major weaknesses and is rarely at a sizable disadvantage, then play Mario or Sheik. Pit is an afterthought. Not bashing the character, just making an observation. I still think the Pits are among the best secondaries in the game.

This basically. If you just want consistency and don't mind getting your hands dirty with a bit of tech, play Sheik. There's no reason not to, unless you want to go against the grain and do your own thing.

I won't lie, that's a big reason why I play Pit. I have no interest in winning for its own sake, I want to win with the character I enjoy playing, and the fact that he happens to be a good character is a very welcome footnote. It is a game, and we play it to have fun as much as anything else, and I think playing (and winning) with Pit is fun. I agree with the notion that he makes a great secondary (consistent results in high and top-tier matchups and relative ease of use is a good combination), but I'd say he's definitely solo-viable of his own accord. There's really no objective reason to really not pick Pit based on fundamental viability, nor is there really a reason why more people don't play him. He's just outdone by other good characters that happen to be more viable.

That said, Pit does have his own strengths that not many other characters can match up to. If you have a fondness for off-stage shenanigans, for example, Pit is one of the best characters you could hope for.

I mean size.

Mind linking that theory?

Meow~

 

[Nu~]

Wintropy
I know Pit is designed to be a "Swiss army characer" so to speak, but what is his optimal playstyle?

I hear so many people claim that he should be played very lame

 

[Mario766]

Nairo played heavily around his dash grab/dash attack game on Dark Pit.

I haven't seen any other Pits play honestly.

 

[Wintropy]

Wintropy
I know Pit is designed to be a "Swiss army characer" so to speak, but what is his optimal playstyle?

I hear so many people claim that he should be played very lame

Ehhhh.

I don't think he really has one, personally. I'd say defensive bait 'n' punish if I had to say anything. He's the kinda character you want to take it easy with and not try to play rushdown, you have to really play the neutral and bait your opponent into doing something risky that you can get the reward off of. Pit's reward overall isn't that great, so you just want to play to optimise his punishes and keep it consistent. He's not Bowser or Ganondorf where he's gonna play neutral very patiently because he just needs one or two good hits to win, but at the same time he isn't Sheik or Fox where he wants to constantly smother the opponent and stop them from doing anything to hit him back.

I guess "patient" is his optimal playstyle? He can kinda switch gears depending on who he's fighting, he doesn't really have to commit to one gameplan because he doesn't have one gameplan that wins everything.

I dunno, I'm not an authority on the subject, I'm just a cat that likes Pit and likes to chat about Pit.

Nairo played heavily around his dash grab/dash attack game on Dark Pit.

I haven't seen any other Pits play honestly.

Do you mean you honestly haven't seen any other Pits play, or you haven't seen any other Pits play an honest game?

Sorry, but the syntax is important here. It changes the entire context of what you're saying and I think it's an important statement.

 

[RonNewcomb]

I haven't seen any other Pits play honestly.

Commas: so small, yet so important.

Regarding Pit's gameplan, when all your tools are OK-ish, your playstyle is dictated by whatever the opposing character is weakest to, or avoiding whatever your opposing character's strongest at.

 

[Pazzo.]

Now, there's nothing wrong with a counter character. Pit could play that role well, but he needs more time and dedicated players.

If he had his Brawl f-air, and perhaps an auto canceling n-air, I'd pick Pit up as a secondary.

Come to think of it, I'd just like the auto cancel. I can adjust to no f-air.

 

[extrasensory]

is the pit:sonic matchup not regarded as awful for pit? i remember watching a set of earth vs komorikiri where earth actually opted to choose fox over pit in game 1 (and i believe was 2 stocked in game 2 when switching back to pit), and the pit player in our region always has incredibly close sets with a sonic player that's below him in skill and insists it's very lopsided in sonic's favour. not sure if pit has any specific tools that might make the matchup more bearable, but it seems like he just gets outsped and outdamaged on every level and can't really get anything going (how would you even land a kill move?). from what i've seen i could see it being 65:35 honestly.

 

[Wintropy]

is the pit:sonic matchup not regarded as awful for pit? i remember watching a set of earth vs komorikiri where earth actually opted to choose fox over pit in game 1 (and i believe was 2 stocked in game 2 when switching back to pit), and the pit player in our region always has incredibly close sets with a sonic player that's below him in skill and insists it's very lopsided in sonic's favour. not sure if pit has any specific tools that might make the matchup more bearable, but it seems like he just gets outsped and outdamaged on every level and can't really get anything going (how would you even land a kill move?). from what i've seen i could see it being 65:35 honestly.

It's not fun, and it's definitely one of Pit's poorer matchups. Earth reckons it's his worst matchup (and no doubt contributes to why he pockets Fox). I'm inclined to agree. Sonic's not enjoyable.

But I don't think it's unwinnable or even so bad that you'd absolutely need a secondary. In my opinion, it just emphasises the nature of Pit's gameplan: he has to play very patiently and optimise his punishes on Sonic. Sonic undeniably has the better tools in the matchup, but I'd struggle to say it's a case of Pit being invalidated by those options. Their gameplans aren't even that radically different from each-other, just that, due to his speed and safety, Sonic has a way easier time of poking at holes in Pit's defenses than the other way 'round.

I'd say it's a -2 matchup, but I don't consider -2 unwinnable, just difficult. It's the kind of matchup where you can win if you put the effort in and play to mitigate your weak spots, but in a top tournament setting with money on the table, I don't think you'd be begrudged for wanting to switch out. Pit has a few matchups where you can switch to a pocket if you want a better quality of life, but I'd struggle to say you really have to if you know what you're doing.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah if you want an all-around character that doesn't leave you with major weaknesses and is rarely at a sizable disadvantage, then play Mario or Sheik. Pit is an afterthought. Not bashing the character, just making an observation. I still think the Pits are among the best secondaries in the game.

The Pits aren't efficient secondaries because they don't have extreme attributes that shut down certain characters. Secondaries are supposed to cover your bad matchups with strengths that are easily exploited in said match ups with minimal investment.

Rosa is a good example of a good secondary. Once you learn how to control Luma, she requires minimal investment to win her good MUs because most of her strength in those MUs is passive. Her design automatically limits the amount of viable options her good MUs have and her own options are basic comparative to more complex characters.

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit has no definite style overall, at least not yet. Obviously some against some characters it's more obvious then others, but for the most part I see people succeeding with widely different strategies.

Myself, I think Pit's a character that needs matchup experience to succeed, since he lacks options potent enough to overpower most characters or a central gameplan to fall back on. To main him you probably need to be preeetty in tune with the options of the rest of the cast. On the flipside, using him in one or two matchups can't be that hard...

Now, there's nothing wrong with a counter character. Pit could play that role well, but he needs more time and dedicated players.

If he had his Brawl f-air, and perhaps an auto canceling n-air, I'd pick Pit up as a secondary.

Come to think of it, I'd just like the auto cancel. I can adjust to no f-air.

Uh, it does autocancel out of a SH... You can fastfall it too, and the rest of his aerials SHAC. New Fair is probably just better then the old one while I'm at it.

 

[J-Lit]

First time poster here and a pit main so I thought I'd give my input on him:

Like many people have already said, Pit is the jack of all trades character in Smash 4, but I think he has some tools that are at least well above average that prevent him from being middle of the pack on the tier list. Japanese players can make his frame 6 up smash seem broken. Nairo doesn't use pit as much but he has a unique aggressive playstyle and shows pit's great edgeguard game.

This brings me my next point which is pit against top tiers. I feel like most people just lump pit's top tier matchups into the more or less even category because he is the "all rounder" character with no huge weaknesses. However, pit's tools feel somewhat lackluster when going against most top tiers.

For example, edgeguarding is a lot harder when going up against strong recoveries from shiek, zss, sonic, etc. And landing that upsmash is harder when most top tiers have great landing options and disadvantage state. This leads to pit being more reliant on reads to kill or his decent f-throw. On the other hand, top tier jank will work just fine on pit for the most part.

Overall, pit is still a pretty solid character to cover bad matchups. It will be interesting to see how a strong pit solo main like Earth will do at genesis.

 

[Pazzo.]

Pit has no definite style overall, at least not yet. Obviously some against some characters it's more obvious then others, but for the most part I see people succeeding with widely different strategies.

Myself, I think Pit's a character that needs matchup experience to succeed, since he lacks options potent enough to overpower most characters or a central gameplan to fall back on. To main him you probably need to be preeetty in tune with the options of the rest of the cast. On the flipside, using him in one or two matchups can't be that hard...



Uh, it does autocancel out of a SH... You can fastfall it too, and the rest of his aerials SHAC. New Fair is probably just better then the old one while I'm at it.

Hm.

I had no idea. Personally, I prefer the older f-air for the shorter endlag.

 

[LancerStaff]

Hm.

I had no idea. Personally, I prefer the older f-air for the shorter endlag.

Pit's old Fair was kinda redundant because Dair actually did a lot of the same things and the upwards angle made it more rewarding. New Fair has more range (no surprise) and knockback making it more useful overall.

 

[Y2Kay]

Not a big deal. Charizard cared about stamina very little compared to the other two because of his plethora of KO options and high base knockback. Charizard never struggled to deal damage as a result of stamina, which was a bigger deal for Squirtle and Ivysaur than weakened KO power, as well.

thanks for clearing this up. Haven't played brawl in a long time.

Hm.

I had no idea. Personally, I prefer the older f-air for the shorter endlag.

I frickin' love the new fair. Or maybe I'm crazy?

I mostly play pit because he's relatively easy and just comfortable to me. Nice range, nice speed, nice combos, nice projectile, nice combo game, and great recovery.

It's not a million miles away from the Greninja concept, if I may be so bold as to say that: we've got a very respectable character that has the potential to be widely acknowledged as a viable threat, he's just held back by widespread indifference (or, gods forbid, ignorance) and a dearth of good representation. I'm optimistic that will change in future for both characters, because it'd be a shame for that potential to never be manifest due to basic disinterest.

It's funny that you mention Greninja, cause that's the reason I even have Pit as a secondary. What's holding back greninja somewhat is his technicality. When your playing as Greninja, you pretty much have to be precise in terms of your gameplay. You can't be actin' goofy or you'll get your butt tor' up. I know this is true for a lot of characters, but it's so glaring with greninja. Some times it might not be my day, and I will be a little off. But the slight lack of precision cause a ripple effect across my entire play and I'll just be really...bad. When this happens, I take a deep breath, stay calm, and pick pit. His play style is much more forgiving and easier on me. Getting in to the zone with greninja can be hard to mantain until (I guess) you spend a lot of time with the character. I could understand why this investment would turn people away.

 

[Vipermoon]

This doesn't matter at all but Brawl Pit's version of Fair just felt so satisfying to connect.

 

[DanGR]

Regarding neutral and SH autocancel aerials: In a game where a lot of the top/high tiers have some really solid, burst, gap-closing hitboxes (many on dash attack), having SH autocancel aerials isn't very impressive. Generally speaking, having quick non-committal ground movement options, burst range on hitboxes, and safety on block all seem infinitely more important to having a successful neutral game.

 

[EpicSonicLatios]

I myself have tried to pick pit up in the past, and I like him a lot more than other sword users due to his mobility. However, I just see no reason for me to use pit when he doesn't necessarily provide specialized matchup advantages against characters that fox loses to, Rosalina, luigi etc, to the point where I can easily beat these characters without much practice. Why would I use pit when I can just prepare extra hard as fox and not sacrifice practice time? I almost WANT to find a reason to use pit, because I really like his style, but I don't see the point in sacrificing practice time for a character that to my knowledge wouldn't provide significant matchup help for my main. A well-rounded character with limited weaknesses is attractive as a secondary, but my question is, in what situations would pit naturally have the advantage over a solo-main, which in this case is fox?

Wintropy, I read everything in that huge post of yours a few pages back, and it essentially reaffirmed my opinion. However, I am wondering if he could make a solid secondary for certain characters, despite his lack of specialization and polarizing match ups that some characters possess.

 

[LancerStaff]

Regarding neutral and SH autocancel aerials: In a game where a lot of the top/high tiers have some really solid, burst, gap-closing hitboxes (many on dash attack), having SH autocancel aerials isn't very impressive. Generally speaking, having quick non-committal ground movement options, burst range on hitboxes, and safety on block all seem infinitely more important to having a successful neutral game.

Good thing Nair is also -5 on shield and cannot be perfect shielded.

 

[Luco]

Can't that statement be applied to most of the cast?

- Lost Bucket Braking.

- Lost DACUS, Short-Hop Laser.

- Lost Up-B shenanigans.

And so on and so forth, etc, etc.

Right, but Lucas was commonly quoted to be one of the most technical characters in Brawl with the ability to have an incredibly technical, flashy playstyle (Look at some of FAE's matches) - at his disposal was zap jump, magnet pull (vertical / horizontal burst movement options respectively), duster-sliding, thunderslide, magnet cancels, Zair lagless landing, pivot grab, and of course the usual B-reverse shenanigoats which made Zap jumps and magnet pulls even more crazy. He still has most of his B-reverse stuff but almost all of these old ATs are now gone, and I'm certain there were even more than the ones I've mentioned.

 

[Megamang]

EpicSonicLatios

It might be worth noting that pit is good at gimping luigi especially, and rosalina as much as any good edgeguarding character.

LancerStaff if you perfect shield multi hit moves that hit fast enough (not sure which these are, but pits are fast enough) you get the faster shield drop frame advantage of a powershield at the end of the hit sequence.

 

[LancerStaff]

LancerStaff if you perfect shield multi hit moves that hit fast enough (not sure which these are, but pits are fast enough) you get the faster shield drop frame advantage of a powershield at the end of the hit sequence.

From my research I've never heard of such an occurrence... And from my testing it doesn't happen to Pit's Nair unless you PS the final hit.

Any moves in particular moves known for this?

 

[Dre89]

Regarding neutral and SH autocancel aerials: In a game where a lot of the top/high tiers have some really solid, burst, gap-closing hitboxes (many on dash attack), having SH autocancel aerials isn't very impressive. Generally speaking, having quick non-committal ground movement options, burst range on hitboxes, and safety on block all seem infinitely more important to having a successful neutral game.

Yeah I'm finding that as DK, I tend to be a lot safer when I'm spacing with jabs and tilts than when I do the conventional bair walls. Aerial spacing is really unsafe this game against all the burst movements.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I myself have tried to pick pit up in the past, and I like him a lot more than other sword users due to his mobility. However, I just see no reason for me to use pit when he doesn't necessarily provide specialized matchup advantages against characters that fox loses to, Rosalina, luigi etc, to the point where I can easily beat these characters without much practice. Why would I use pit when I can just prepare extra hard as fox and not sacrifice practice time? I almost WANT to find a reason to use pit, because I really like his style, but I don't see the point in sacrificing practice time for a character that to my knowledge wouldn't provide significant matchup help for my main. A well-rounded character with limited weaknesses is attractive as a secondary, but my question is, in what situations would pit naturally have the advantage over a solo-main, which in this case is fox?

Wintropy, I read everything in that huge post of yours a few pages back, and it essentially reaffirmed my opinion. However, I am wondering if he could make a solid secondary for certain characters, despite his lack of specialization and polarizing match ups that some characters possess.

All-around characters make great secondaries bro. Being polarizing and having counters and getting countered is the recipe for a pocket character like little Mac.

 

[Dre89]

All-around characters make great secondaries bro. Being polarizing and having counters and getting countered is the recipe for a pocket character like little Mac.

No they don't, unless they're top tiers like Sheik who just beat everyone. Characters like Pit make good mains because almost every match up is doable, so you get a lot out of investing in them and having superior fundamentals.

Secondaries are supposed to cover bad MUs with minimal investment. There are no characters in the game that Pit beats harder than everyone else with less investment required. All rounders don't have polarising qualities that are easy to abuse in the MUs that they're strong in.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

No they don't, unless they're top tiers like Sheik who just beat everyone. Characters like Pit make good mains because almost every match up is doable, so you get a lot out of investing in them and having superior fundamentals.

Secondaries are supposed to cover bad MUs with minimal investment. There are no characters in the game that Pit beats harder than everyone else with less investment required. All rounders don't have polarising qualities that are easy to abuse in the MUs that they're strong in.

That's not what secondaries are for, you're talking about pockets, There's a big difference. secondaries are just the B team that are used not as much as the A team, not the F team that gets playtime every blue moon. Secondaries have much more uses than for covering bad MUs, like being the new temporal A team when the original don't feel good against character/player x.

 

[C0rvus]

This was my line of thinking. Pit is balanced, and therefore has the tools to deal with a wide range of threats moderately well without exposing any counterpickable(lol) weaknesses. I suppose he would make a great backup character if we're looking specifically at counterpicking a player, not so much their character. Pit's flexibility means you can apply him to focus on the weakpoints of a variety of players (bad habits, holes in zoning patterns, what have you). Perhaps he doesn't fill the gaps in a high tier's MU spread, but I guess in my scrub mind I don't even consider having a high tier main and needing a secondary.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Does anyone know why KuroganeHammer decided to remove all the frame data they have accumulated?

Edit: Solved.

 

[Lavani]

Does anyone know why @KuroganeHammer decided to remove all the frame data they have accumulated?

He didn't. This isn't the thread for that, though.

http://smashboards.com/threads/comp...uroganehammer-com.421541/page-2#post-20542801

 

[meleebrawler]

Right, but Lucas was commonly quoted to be one of the most technical characters in Brawl with the ability to have an incredibly technical, flashy playstyle (Look at some of FAE's matches) - at his disposal was zap jump, magnet pull (vertical / horizontal burst movement options respectively), duster-sliding, thunderslide, magnet cancels, Zair lagless landing, pivot grab, and of course the usual B-reverse shenanigoats which made Zap jumps and magnet pulls even more crazy. He still has most of his B-reverse stuff but almost all of these old ATs are now gone, and I'm certain there were even more than the ones I've mentioned.

Most of those things were removed because they were glitches, end of story. Doesn't matter if they were crucial or useless to the character, they weren't intended by the developers.

Like many other returning Brawl characters Lucas has had his most oppressive traits toned down (namely his insane aerial shield pressure) while having his formerly useless tools brought up to snuff (throws, PK Freeze). Like, Brawl Lucas was so good at hitting shields with aerials that you tend to forget he had a nearly nonexistent grab game.

Now while his aerials can't pressure shields 'till they crack anymore they serve a different purpose by creating openings for his grab to land (while still creating minor followups should they actually land). But with his dtilt he's not totally reliant on reads or whiff punishes to get them either.

The adjustments to his aerials and PK Freeze also make him a MUCH more efficient edgeguarder, due to both having better hitboxes and power (especially fair and bair). Freeze's improved frame data allows him to create opening for those aerials to land, and magnet is also extremely lethal when used correctly.

 

[L9999]

Oh, I know, it wasn't intended to be a direct comparison. Just that there's a superficial similarity in their degree of representation, relative to how effective they are competitively.





This basically. If you just want consistency and don't mind getting your hands dirty with a bit of tech, play Sheik. There's no reason not to, unless you want to go against the grain and do your own thing.

I won't lie, that's a big reason why I play Pit. I have no interest in winning for its own sake, I want to win with the character I enjoy playing, and the fact that he happens to be a good character is a very welcome footnote. It is a game, and we play it to have fun as much as anything else, and I think playing (and winning) with Pit is fun. I agree with the notion that he makes a great secondary (consistent results in high and top-tier matchups and relative ease of use is a good combination), but I'd say he's definitely solo-viable of his own accord. There's really no objective reason to really not pick Pit based on fundamental viability, nor is there really a reason why more people don't play him. He's just outdone by other good characters that happen to be more viable.

That said, Pit does have his own strengths that not many other characters can match up to. If you have a fondness for off-stage shenanigans, for example, Pit is one of the best characters you could hope for.



Meow~

Sweden sniper strikes again? Speaking of sniping, why do people almost never go offstage and do something?

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Sweden sniper strikes again? Speaking of sniping, why do people almost never go offstage and do something?

This comes up a lot.
In short, the risk-reward just isnt there most of the time. Shaya made a really good post about it but I can't find it.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

anybody know the invincibility durations of the ledge options