Character Board Specific Matchup Chart Project (Last Update: 12/21)- Not a tier list!

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If you use red-through-blue, it'll be the same as Brawl Wifi's latency indicator, lol.

which is really easy to interperet... I like the idea

 

[Nestec]

I'm voting red-through-blue. I'm also voting 75-25 as the cut-off point for large advantage. -____-

 

[adumbrodeus]

Effectively speaking, is the character a counter-pick?

Then it's a large advantage.

Anything less that's an advantage should be a small advantage.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Effectively speaking, is the character a counter-pick?

Then it's a large advantage.

Anything less that's an advantage should be a small advantage.

I agree with you AND nestec.... and submit, for the acadamy,

Zelda (and Zelda/shiek) as a counterpick for DDD, Ganondorf, captain falcon and fox

Shiek (as well as Zelda/shiek) as a counterpick for ike, captain falcon and ganonorf as well as fox

 

[Zankoku]

Saying that doesn't work unless people on both sides of the matchup agree.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Saying that doesn't work unless people on both sides of the matchup agree.

I'm pretty sure at least the fox boards do.. as do falcon's

 

[Clevr]

I have a small case Colorblindness and I can NOT see the difference between the green and the yellow. Any chance we could make the green darker? They look almost identical, and usually green and yellow don't look THAT alike to me.

 

[Nestec]

Pfffft, well you just don't count then, alright?? U___U

/kidding

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Ok, both the DK and Snake boards seem to agree that the DK vs Snake matchup is 50-50 or 55-45 DK, which either way is neutral

 

[DanGR]

If you use red-through-blue, it'll be the same as Brawl Wifi's latency indicator, lol.

I agree. the colors have been changed.

I have a small case Colorblindness and I can NOT see the difference between the green and the yellow. Any chance we could make the green darker? They look almost identical, and usually green and yellow don't look THAT alike to me.

Is it better now? The new orange color may look like the red or yellow. Just tell me if that's the case.

Ok, both the DK and Snake boards seem to agree that the DK vs Snake matchup is 50-50 or 55-45 DK, which either way is neutral

Have the threads? I can't change anything if I don't.

 

[the Lexx]

Just a tip: try saving it as a png instead of a jpg, the colors bleed a bit.

 

[TwinkleToes]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161598

Sonic match-up thread.

After a major overhaul we've been set pretty far behind the rest of the char-specific boards, but it's gonna be coming along...

 

[Morrigan]

I don't wanna sound irritating, but the orange needs to be a bit darker because it kinda looks like a dark yellow rather than orange (unless you put them up together).

 

[DanGR]

Just a tip: try saving it as a png instead of a jpg, the colors bleed a bit.

I haven't noticed. O_o I'll see what I can do.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161598

Sonic match-up thread.

After a major overhaul we've been set pretty far behind the rest of the char-specific boards, but it's gonna be coming along...

thanks for the link. It doesn't, however, tell whether the matchup is an advantage, neutral, or disadvantage. I need that info for this to be used in this chart.

I don't wanna sound irritating, but the orange needs to be a bit darker because it kinda looks like a dark yellow rather than orange (unless you put them up together).

No problem. In fact, i'd like more criticism like this^. It helps to make the chart more enjoyable to look at.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

No problem. In fact, i'd like more criticism like this^. It helps to make the chart more enjoyable to look at.

Ok, hey, could you bold a few of the names, and if they look better do that to the rest, the names kinda bother my eyes with the thin letters and stuff.

Btw...glad to see how this chart is shaping up.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

No problem. In fact, i'd like more criticism like this^. It helps to make the chart more enjoyable to look at.

Oh.........migod.... it's NOT an IvanEva wannabe ^^

 

[TwinkleToes]

Dan, I understand what you're getting at, but that's probably the only Sonic match-up thread you'll ever see.

Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[Morrigan]

Oh.........migod.... it's NOT an IvanEva wannabe ^^

What are you insinuating?

 

[DanGR]

I won't ask^, but he smiled, so it must be fine.

I've been trying to find a new orange color, but when I darken it, it looks too reddish. I think I'll just use a different yellow color instead. That fine?

Twinkle- yeh...I guess so. It'd be nice to tell whether it's a disadvantage or advantage though. I shouldn't make assumptions.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Isn't Falco/Wolf matchup 100:0 Falco, I remember seeing that, it was a 70:30 Falco(without CG's) and 100:0(with CG's)

 

[TwinkleToes]

*scratches head*

Well, you're not going to get too much consensus... So, in the interest of completion you'd have to ignore the Sonic boards and just go off of what other people say about Sonic.

I know it must seem like we (or maybe just it's just me) are being unnecessarily difficult, but the number concept really is fairly useless in a lot of cases for Sonic. I personally also question the helpfulness of dumbing down the match-up in such a manner, not to take anything away from the purpose of your thread.

I still maintain though that it's somewhat helpful to link the thread.

EDIT: Oh, and if it comes to it, just say that all of Sonic's match-ups are disadvantageous

 

[neoREgen]

It's slightly better. I think the colors could still be improved. Here's the thing- yellow is a hot color. As such, it doesn't seem neutral. It also happens to be one of the most annoying colors in the spectrum (due to it having such a small portion of the spectrum, when you can see it, it's glaring).
I suggest that you use green, a nice truly neutral color, for Neutral. The other cool colors (blue and purple) can be used for Advantage and Huge Advantage respectively.
I say you keep the red and orange. It goes well.

Another thing that you may attempt to make the table less glaring is to slightly desaturate the colors or move them slightly off hue. Right now they're all pretty much on at full blast (save green, which looks more pleasing and slightly off), and its like a crazy crayola fiesta.

 

[Nestec]

Okay, DanGR, here's the data for Ness vs Sheik. After much debating, we all agreed on 70-30 advantage for Sheik.

Sheik boards: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174741&page=23

Ness boards: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183562&page=5

^^ I'll let you know, it took the Nessboarders a bit longer to agree.

Any problems?

 

[Timbers]

About Zelda and Sheik, why exactly do people want a seperate Zelda/Sheik slot? If a Zelda has a match that's orange, and Sheik has a match that's green, what does this tell you? It tells you that Sheik has an easy time with the match, and Zelda does not. If you're using Sheik and Zelda together, then it's because Sheik has at least a neutral matchup with the character, or at least a better one than Zelda. If Sheik has a bad match against the character, but Zelda has a good one, then uh..you're being stupid if you're not playing Zelda >_>. Mind you that's if you play both of them together.

I don't understand why an entirely new slot is needed for these characters.

I mean really. Sheik has a great matchup against Fox with the tilt lock. What do you think a node for Zelda/Sheik would say? Uhh probably the same thing!

Example 2 being Sheik has a crappy matchup with Lucario, but Zelda has (about) a neutral one. What would a Sheik/Zelda player do in this situation? Err, the wisest solution would be to play Zelda, no?

>_> Go ahead and reason with me if you want to (Sheik and/or Zelda players) because I don't understand the point right now. The only thing I could come up with that Sheik-only players are holding themselves back from earlier kills.

And if that's the only reason, then the only thing that's going to be added to this waste-of-space slot is Sheik/Zelda having some easier matches than Sheik.

And if that's the case why don't we trade out Sheik's slot instead.

EDIT: And no, I don't have a problem with the Sheik/Zelda spot. I'm just curious of the reasoning behind it.

Colors are fine, but the hues could be different.

EDIT: Perhaps use these colors? They're purdy =3

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

About Zelda and Sheik, why exactly do people want a seperate Zelda/Sheik slot? If a Zelda has a match that's orange, and Sheik has a match that's green, what does this tell you? It tells you that Sheik has an easy time with the match, and Zelda does not. If you're using Sheik and Zelda together, then it's because Sheik has at least a neutral matchup with the character, or at least a better one than Zelda. If Sheik has a bad match against the character, but Zelda has a good one, then uh..you're being stupid if you're not playing Zelda >_>. Mind you that's if you play both of them together.

I don't understand why an entirely new slot is needed for these characters.

I mean really. Sheik has a great matchup against Fox with the tilt lock. What do you think a node for Zelda/Sheik would say? Uhh probably the same thing!

Example 2 being Sheik has a crappy matchup with Lucario, but Zelda has (about) a neutral one. What would a Sheik/Zelda player do in this situation? Err, the wisest solution would be to play Zelda, no?

>_> Go ahead and reason with me if you want to (Sheik and/or Zelda players) because I don't understand the point right now. The only thing I could come up with that Sheik-only players are holding themselves back from earlier kills.

And if that's the only reason, then the only thing that's going to be added to this waste-of-space slot is Sheik/Zelda having some easier matches than Sheik.

And if that's the case why don't we trade out Sheik's slot instead.

EDIT: And no, I don't have a problem with the Sheik/Zelda spot. I'm just curious of the reasoning behind it.

Colors are fine, but the hues could be different.

EDIT: Perhaps use these colors? They're purdy =3

Occasionally..... actually, somewhat often, being able to use Zelda and Shiek n tandem creates a MORE favourable matchup than either alone could manage.

 

[Timbers]

Could you give me an example >_>?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Could you give me an example >_>?

Wolf.

Both have a 60:40 adv against him but used together it's rather 70:30.
Sheik can rack up dmg but has trouble to finish him, since his moderately heavy and Sheik lacks great finishers. Zelda on the other hand can't rack up dmg very fast b/c she can't outcamp him and lacks a good approach but her finishers are excellent.

Sheik can do 100% dmg out of nowhere with ftilt lock but still fails to finish him, something that Zelda is better used for

 

[Shy Guy 86]

The Wolf boards(I think) don't have a matchup thread, and Falco has a huge advantage over Wolf/Yoshi(70:30 Falco)

 

[adumbrodeus]

The Wolf boards(I think) don't have a matchup thread, and Falco has a huge advantage over Wolf/Yoshi(70:30 Falco)

Convince them to make a match-up thread, agreement is needed before the match-up is accepted.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The wolf board does have a match-up thread. I even posted a link somewhere there...

 

[Fearmy]

going to point this out, PT's Pokemon are neutral against each other.

Charizard Can kill Ivysaur if played Right easily, but Ivysaur can do 70% damage to Charizard with BS
Squirtle Does get killed by ivysaur at 36% by a usmash, but Squirtle is actually hard to hit
Squirtle can Combo Charizard Easily, but Charizard's Longer Range and Flamethrower will Prevent is sometimes

 

[Clevr]

Here's somethings you could fill in:

Meta Knight = Falco.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463

Snake = Falco.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4706443#post4706443
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202

Olimar = Falco.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172222
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202

 

[neoREgen]

Edit: This chart is now a thing of the past. The new version is on the next page. I didn't save the file before drastically altering it, so this version is now unattainable.

Original Message:
Instead of putting in requests and making you do all the work, I decided to try to alter the chart to make it easier to read.
I'll gladly send you the photoshop file so that you can continue to update it if you like it. Just PM me.

It does look busy, but it's quite easier to scan.

Also, note that in the places in which it does have color, it's actually easier to read. So, you know, when it's filled, it'll look better.

 

[Doggalina]

The current DK match-up thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173752
The old, outdated one (this one is stickied): http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154971

Although, in the old one, ICs were listed as DK's worse matchup (worse than DDD)

 

[TwinkleToes]

Neo, the colors in your chart are difficult to identify.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Neo, the colors in your chart are difficult to identify.

complete agreement... the chart is very pretty... but it falls short in functionailty

 

[DanGR]

Isn't Falco/Wolf matchup 100:0 Falco, I remember seeing that, it was a 70:30 Falco(without CG's) and 100:0(with CG's)

I saw that falco's had the matchup at 100/0, but the wolf's had their's at 60/40. Though this does bring into question whether their matchups are worth noting. I might have to exclude that thread from this chart.

Here's why he's only at an advantage and not a big advantage big advantage for now. Wolf matchup thread has it at 60/40. Falco has it 100/0. They both agree that it's favored for falco, but not that it's a big advantage. Until they both agree, I leave it at advantage.
Thoughts?

It's slightly better. I think the colors could still be improved. Here's the thing- yellow is a hot color. As such, it doesn't seem neutral. It also happens to be one of the most annoying colors in the spectrum (due to it having such a small portion of the spectrum, when you can see it, it's glaring).
I suggest that you use green, a nice truly neutral color, for Neutral. The other cool colors (blue and purple) can be used for Advantage and Huge Advantage respectively.
I say you keep the red and orange. It goes well.

Another thing that you may attempt to make the table less glaring is to slightly desaturate the colors or move them slightly off hue. Right now they're all pretty much on at full blast (save green, which looks more pleasing and slightly off), and its like a crazy crayola fiesta.

I'll saturate the colors. I'd like some input from some other people before I change the colors to red, orange, green, blue, and purple. I could just change the bright yellow to a lighter, less intense yellow. I'm not sure how it'd come out. I've been changing them every week. >_>

Okay, DanGR, here's the data for Ness vs Sheik. After much debating, we all agreed on 70-30 advantage for Sheik.
[...]
Any problems?

Thanks. I'll add it to my future updates. I'll also add Sheik/Zelda>>Ness b/c Sheik alone is 70/30. sheik/Zelda can't possibly be worse. Agreed?

Colors are fine, but the hues could be different.

EDIT: Perhaps use these colors? They're purdy =3

I'll look into it. How would I obtain those colors? I can see it, but I can't actually take it from you. >_>

The Wolf boards(I think) don't have a matchup thread, and Falco has a huge advantage over Wolf/Yoshi(70:30 Falco)

This is the matchup thread I was directed to for Wolf's matchups: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164483 I've begun to question its reliability though...

Convince them to make a match-up thread, agreement is needed before the match-up is accepted.

correct.

going to point this out, PT's Pokemon are neutral against each other.

Charizard Can kill Ivysaur if played Right easily, but Ivysaur can do 70% damage to Charizard with BS
Squirtle Does get killed by ivysaur at 36% by a usmash, but Squirtle is actually hard to hit
Squirtle can Combo Charizard Easily, but Charizard's Longer Range and Flamethrower will Prevent is sometimes

This isn't a debate hall. These matchups have been agreed to by your own boards. The thread I referenced is here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156038 I'm assuming its reliable and current.

Here's somethings you could fill in:

Meta Knight = Falco.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463

Snake = Falco.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4706443#post4706443
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202

Olimar = Falco.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172222
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202

The Falco matchup thread you linked showed MK>Falco. The MK thread said nothing about the level of difficulty. sosy.

Same thing goes for the snake matchup.(except you guys have it at 50/50. Sadly, they don't give difficulty level either.

Olimar is already at 50/50.

the chart.

I appreciate the effort, but I've got a chart already. If most people like yours better, I'll switch, but it doesn't seem that way. I might want to take parts of it and include it into the chart that's up already. Only time will tell. :/

The current DK match-up thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173752
The old, outdated one (this one is stickied): http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154971

Although, in the old one, ICs were listed as DK's worse matchup (worse than DDD)

Thanks. I've got the first link you posted already in the OP. You're right about the second- it's too outdated.

To everyone- I've decided what I'll do about the Sheik/Zelda matchups. For now, until people begin to discuss both in one match, I'll use the character with the better matchup to represent both. I encourage people to discuss both in the same matchup though.

If both boards agree that a matchup is an advantage, but disagree about the extent, I'll leave it at an advantage. If they disagree about whether it's a disadvantage or neutral matchup, I won't put down anything.

Neo's chart- If you guys like it better than the current chart or would like me to add something he's got in his, just tell me. I don't want to have a totally new chart if you guys don't like it.

 

[Morrigan]

Regarding Zelda/Sheik:

Or you could just leave it empty til everyone start discussing ZeldaSheik as a whole. I dunno.

 

[neoREgen]

complete agreement... the chart is very pretty... but it falls short in functionailty

:/ well, that's fixable. Shouldn't take too long either. Though, my main concern is that my screen may just be displaying it very differently than yours. I don't have a problem recognizing any color on the chart (save purple maybe). How bad is it for you? I'll make some adjustments. Hopefully it'll be better then.

I'll saturate the colors. I'd like some input from some other people before I change the colors to red, orange, green, blue, and purple. I could just change the bright yellow to a lighter, less intense yellow. I'm not sure how it'd come out. I've been changing them every week. >_>

DEsaturating is what I'd recommended, but I wouldn't worry about it.

I'll look into it. How would I obtain those colors? I can see it, but I can't actually take it from you. >_>

These are the Hex values for the colors he posted:
Red= C40F0F
Orange= EB792D
Yellow= F7ED51
Green= 1EBC56
Blue= 065CA5

In Photoshop, click on the Foreground or Background color (the two squares, one overlaps the other) to select your color. In that window, there should be a space to insert the above numbers. In my version it's near the bottom of the window, leftmost next to the color spectrum.

I appreciate the effort, but I've got a chart already. If most people like yours better, I'll switch, but it doesn't seem that way. I might want to take parts of it and include it into the chart that's up already. Only time will tell. :/

No worries, I'm not too happy with it myself. I just wanted to post it and be done with it because it was taking more time than I'd initially expected. Just to clear something up- you are using Photoshop, right? If you aren't, there really isn't any reason for me to pursue facelifting this chart because you couldn't use it anyway.

Neo's chart- If you guys like it better than the current chart or would like me to add something he's got in his, just tell me. I don't want to have a totally new chart if you guys don't like it.

The thing that I do like most about mine is the opponent names. I think it makes it easier to scan it. Unfortunately it also complicates the color scheme and trying to figure out how to balance it becomes an issue, which I could see happening to you worse since you went with a light background.
I'll work on it a little more and post an update soon though.

Edit: Update posted. See next page.

 

[Pan!c]

Looks good, great idea!