Changes to DK's Moveset?

[Man Li Gi]

So you would PREFER his bad roll now instead of the roll that was in 2.1-2.6b (3.0 messed with the trajectory too much).

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I wish he could get out the Coconut gun.

Yeah!

 

[plokoon9619]

He needs his barrel throw more, its one of his iconic moves.

 

[GmanSir]

His Final Smash should be him beating up people like in the end of the levels in DKCR and DKCTF.

 

[S_B]

He needs his barrel throw more, its one of his iconic moves.

I'd like to see that.

Honestly, replace his down+B (which is utter garbage) with pulling out a barrel, then throwing it and having it roll along the ground.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I'd like to see that.

Honestly, replace his down+B (which is utter garbage genius) with pulling out a barrel, then throwing it and having it roll along the ground.

Coming from a DK main, no it is not. DK really has no other options in covering a rolling option and slamming an opponent for a quick 14% seems apropo for DK. His Headbutt on the other hand...

Yo I remembered that I posted this for down b naysayers: It's really all what DK has to cover roll options. It Destroys nades, Pikmin, nado and mainly ground approaches. If the hitbox was extended and not made into only a quake hitbox, down b could be a great move. I always believed that headbutt was supposed to just be a placeholder until a better special appeared.....maybe DK's blow attack? Anyway, it should be the barrels for side b (but Sakurai seems to have a strange aversion for barrels) and the roll should be his dash attack. Shockwaves would be welcomed for his u and f smash. If DK could also go deep into the z-axis for his sidestep, would appreciate that as well.

 

[S_B]

Coming from a DK main, no it is not. DK really has no other options in covering a rolling option and slamming an opponent for a quick 14% seems apropo for DK. His Headbutt on the other hand...

Yo I remembered that I posted this for down b naysayers: It's really all what DK has to cover roll options. It Destroys nades, Pikmin, nado and mainly ground approaches. If the hitbox was extended and not made into only a quake hitbox, down b could be a great move. I always believed that headbutt was supposed to just be a placeholder until a better special appeared.....maybe DK's blow attack? Anyway, it should be the barrels for side b (but Sakurai seems to have a strange aversion for barrels) and the roll should be his dash attack. Shockwaves would be welcomed for his u and f smash. If DK could also go deep into the z-axis for his sidestep, would appreciate that as well.

Then get rid of his toward+B.

I can see how down+B would be useful, but I've just never liked it because all an opponent needs to do is jump and they've got a free hit most of the time.

 

[patar4097]

What I would like to see is a new side B, and I think a roll attack would be the best. Getting a jump out of it could also help recovery, and maybe make up B more of an aerial recovery. And down B needs something new too. What would be a cool Final Smash would be the barrel throw he had in Super Smash Flash 2. Seems like it works well, and plus he then has his barrel throwing move, even if it isn't as profound.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Then get rid of his toward+B.

I can see how down+B would be useful, but I've just never liked it because all an opponent needs to do is jump and they've got a free hit most of the time.

Removing the quake factor of the hitbox would help this problem.

What I would like to see is a new side B, and I think a roll attack would be the best. Getting a jump out of it could also help recovery, and maybe make up B more of an aerial recovery. And down B needs something new too. What would be a cool Final Smash would be the barrel throw he had in Super Smash Flash 2. Seems like it works well, and plus he then has his barrel throwing move, even if it isn't as profound.

No, the roll should be his dash attack. Barrels should be side b, while up b should have vertical recovery directly related to how fast b is pressed while also being a great horizontal recovery.

 

[RODO]

For the love of smash reduce landing lag on up special.

 

[krazyzyko]

I dont like the idea of Barrel Throw. The common drawback that all heavyweights share (aside from being heavyweights), are that they don't have projectiles. I don't know why I'm saying this tought, because I want Bowser to spit fire forwards as a projectile in his Neutral B. But the Barrel Throw seems overpowered. DK already has a advantage against other heavyweights because of his speed, he should not get another advantage.

Bowser and Zard breathe fire. Snake has an arsenal of projectiles. DDD side B are projectiles. Rob has 2 projectiles.
DK pulling out a barrell and then throwing it would be pretty slow compared to others aka making it punishable and not OP. And that's the most accurate move for him since he was throwing barrels before he had friends.

 

[Tepig2000]

Bowser and Zard breathe fire. Snake has an arsenal of projectiles. DDD side B are projectiles. Rob has 2 projectiles.
DK pulling out a barrell and then throwing it would be pretty slow compared to others aka making it punishable and not OP. And that's the most accurate move for him since he was throwing barrels before he had friends.

That was long ago, my opinion changed since then.

 

[Metalbro]

I'd love to see his strong initial hit from his Up-B return from Melee.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Yeah, the "crack" was severely missed in this game.

 

[Tepig2000]

Dunno if this has been said, but do you guys think DK could have Squawks somewhere in his moveset?

 

[Man Li Gi]

Dunno if this has been said, but do you guys think DK could have Squawks somewhere in his moveset?

I wish Sakurai used all of DK non kong friends in his FS. They kind of stampede onto the screen and swarm all over.

 

[RomanceDawn]

I love using DK because I love that it's basically just his body as the weapon. I was turned off of Diddy with all of his gadgets but that's just me. Though seeing those items in DKCR softened my hatred of those things from DK64.

What I absolutely don't want to see is a Coconut gun or barrel blast recovery. The barrel throw would be great though, that is just too iconic.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I love using DK because I love that it's basically just his body as the weapon. I was turned off of Diddy with all of his gadgets but that's just me. Though seeing those items in DKCR softened my hatred of those things from DK64.

What I absolutely don't want to see is a Coconut gun or barrel blast recovery. The barrel throw would be great though, that is just too iconic.

Pardon my curiosity, but why hate DK64?

 

[RomanceDawn]

Pardon my curiosity, but why hate DK64?

It was just a major let down after the first 3 Country titles and even DK 94. Running through the same areas roughly 5 times each for all the bananas. Having to beat that factory in like an hour or it restarts completely. Rare giving a bit of an F U to Dixie fans with Tiny who functions exactly the same. The collectables were absolutely overwhelming, though I did manage to get EVERYTHING in that game. The music, setting and well everything was more "story book" Banjo Kazooie style than that semi-realistic Donkey Kong Country style, which isn't bad, but it made for a weak Banjo Kazoie and an even weaker Donkey Kong. Donkey Kong Country gameplay was not retained in it's transition to 3D.

What I loved though was the battle mode and DK rap. So most anything taking reference from DK64 always irked me because in my eyes that's what marked the major hiatus we had with DK. Once Retro made the rocket barrel and peanut pop gun tolerable in Returns, it made me appreciate Diddy more in Brawl, despite Brawl coming first.

So yeah DK64 is the black sheep in an otherwise fantastic run for Donkey Kong. Seeing it's references in Smash Bros only bug me when they interfere with the characters move sets.

 

[Spinosaurus]

It was just a major let down after the first 3 Country titles and even DK 94.

That "even" bugs me! Unless I'm misinterpreting here lol. But yeah DK64 did not live to its hype at all. Felt like a weaker Banjo Kazooie than actual 3D DKC.

I'd love a Barrel throw, but I dunno. I also love DK without projectiles. Still not sold on the roll either.

 

[RomanceDawn]

That "even" bugs me! Unless I'm misinterpreting here lol. But yeah DK64 did not live to its hype at all. Felt like a weaker Banjo Kazooie than actual 3D DKC.

I'd love a Barrel throw, but I dunno. I also love DK without projectiles. Still not sold on the roll either.

I didn't mean to sound like DK94 was a lesser title because it is absolutely fantastic! Just classic DK gameplay and not Super Mario styled DK gameplay.

If Dk got a Barrel Throw I'd be cool will it rolling across the floor at a steady pace like in the original DK games. Big but easy to avoid. That would just allow him to by pass guys like Link and Samus with a little projectile pressure of his own. Still if the physics and gameplay of the new title allow for projectiless big guys like DK to stand against the projectile spammers then I won't care much either way.

The actual roll with his body is a must though. It just needs to happen!

 

[Bamboo]

With all respect and love for Kong I think hes fine. Except the final smash.
Its hilarious but I mean come on doesn't the big guy deserve better then this?

 

[Smady]

I'm going to be late on this one, but the most obvious change ever is simply making his dash attack his classic rolling attack.

How Sakurai missed that one, I don't know. His donkey kick is one of his most awkward moves and not nearly as fun.

 

[Sahfarry]

I personally think that Rambi would be a cool Final Smash. Rambi would always run forward, and the player could only change direction and jump.

Well. Do you think DK should have his moveset changed at all?

Perhaps he could get rid of his Headbutt and replace it for a blowing or rolling attack.

Rolling would make the most sense because of the returns games. I'd love to see it. It would be fairly fast, wouldn't last very long, cause a decent amount of damage, and he could wake up from it pretty fast.

 

[9Volt]

Rocket Barrel could be a cool final smash, is difficult to control in the original game so you can keep the same gameplay XP

 

[Smady]

Now that Luigi has an up-to-date final smash, hopefully DK gets a barrel throw or Rambi. Please no more bongos.

 

[BKupa666]

Now that Luigi has an up-to-date final smash, hopefully DK gets a barrel throw or Rambi. Please no more bongos.

This, please. Enough bluster about "the Bongos representing a big part of DK's history." Barrel-throwing and Rambi represent just as big a part of his history, if not moreso, and unlike the Bongos, they're not representative of an era of mediocre spin-off flops.

 

[Man Li Gi]

This, please. Enough bluster about "the Bongos representing a big part of DK's history." Barrel-throwing and Rambi represent just as big a part of his history, if not moreso, and unlike the Bongos, they're not representative of an era of mediocre spin-off flops.

DK JB was good.

 

[BKupa666]

DK JB was good.

Jungle Beat was the Donkey Kong series' equivalent to Metroid: Other M, right down to an unwelcome departure from the series' regular gameplay and horrible characterization of its protagonist. Not to mention the smug hypocrites at Nintendo Tokyo only using DK and "The Banana" as characters due to deeming the other DKC characters "not fresh enough" for gamers. Thank goodness it sold poorly, because had it been successful, we may never have gotten another Country game, or may never have seen guys like Diddy again outside of spin-offs.

 

[Smady]

Jungle Beat was the Donkey Kong series' equivalent to Metroid: Other M, right down to an unwelcome departure from the series' regular gameplay and horrible characterization of its protagonist. Not to mention the smug hypocrites at Nintendo Tokyo only using DK and "The Banana" as characters due to deeming the other DKC characters "not fresh enough" for gamers. Thank goodness it sold poorly, because had it been successful, we may never have gotten another Country game, or may never have seen guys like Diddy again outside of spin-offs.

I can understand that fans of the game like the art style or gameplay, but I can't understand how they could like the amount of content. Compare it to any of the Country games and it's plain as day that Jungle Beat has repetitive, palette swap bosses and no consistency in its design. That is unless you count a generic jungle and random animals as a consistent tone. Although I'd honestly take it over the Bongo games. I don't think you can get lower than a music peripheral.

That Bongo final smash is dreadful anyway, it's a minigame that always plays the same. It's astounding that Sakurai thought a rocket-powered jetpack for Diddy and explosive peanut guns was a cool final smash, but so was a couple of magical bongos.

 

[BKupa666]

I can understand that fans of the game like the art style or gameplay, but I can't understand how they could like the amount of content. Compare it to any of the Country games and it's plain as day that Jungle Beat has repetitive, palette swap bosses and no consistency in its design. That is unless you count a generic jungle and random animals as a consistent tone. Although I'd honestly take it over the Bongo games. I don't think you can get lower than a music peripheral.

That, and a large amount of ire stems from the notion that Jungle Beat was blatantly a cash-in on the Country series without any respect for its source material whatsoever (and with actual disrespect from the developers). You're riding Animal Buddies who perform the exact function of Rambi and Enguarde, but they're specifically designed to be Not Rambi and Not Enguarde. You're interacting with other primates, but they're generic monkeys, rather than Kong family members. You're fighting animal enemies, but they're off-putting freaks-of-nature like Cob C.ock, and you attack them by brutally pummeling them in their sleep or pulling out their tongues despite there being no sign whatsoever that they're actually antagonists (see: horrible characterization). Compare that to Returns, where the source material was handled with care and respect alongside new elements, and there's no comparison.

Jungle Beat was a wet dream for a lot of the arcade-exclusive DK fans who despised DKC, who were already having a blast during the Decade of Nothing by s***ing all over Rare's games in the wake of the Rare buyout. However, for those who cared about DKC, it represented a potentially permanent new norm for the series, and an unsavory one at that.

 

[Smady]

That, and a large amount of ire stems from the notion that Jungle Beat was blatantly a cash-in on the Country series without any respect for its source material whatsoever (and with actual disrespect from the developers). You're riding Animal Buddies who perform the exact function of Rambi and Enguarde, but they're specifically designed to be Not Rambi and Not Enguarde. You're interacting with other primates, but they're generic monkeys, rather than Kong family members. You're fighting animal enemies, but they're off-putting freaks-of-nature like Cob C.ock, and you attack them by brutally pummeling them in their sleep or pulling out their tongues despite there being no sign whatsoever that they're actually antagonists (see: horrible characterization). Compare that to Returns, where the source material was handled with care and respect alongside new elements, and there's no comparison.

Jungle Beat was a wet dream for a lot of the arcade-exclusive DK fans who despised DKC, who were already having a blast during the Decade of Nothing by s***ing all over Rare's games in the wake of the Rare buyout. However, for those who cared about DKC, it represented a potentially permanent new norm for the series, and an unsavory one at that.

Gee, I didn't think it was quite that bad, but you outlined exactly what I had suppressed. What a nightmarish game it was.

What's funny about those who hate the extended DKC universe is that Nintendo was no better in their own attempts to serialize Donkey Kong. They added DK Jr., Stanley, Jumpman became a villain. The Rare characters actually make sense and have a consistent backstory rather than being invented for the sake of it. Although personally I imagine that a large part of the reasoning behind Jungle Beat was an anti-Rare sentiment after the buyout. They wanted to ditch the entire Country franchise but that's just bad business and not remotely necessary.

Actually, thinking about it, I think it's highly likely that we'll see a new DK final smash. Jungle Beat and the dreaded bongos are long dead, it can't be hard to add in Rambi, a generic ledge to throw barrels or, I don't know, a Captain Falcon kind of final smash inspired by the way DK punches away posses in the Returns games. That's mashing I can get behind.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Jungle Beat was the Donkey Kong series' equivalent to Metroid: Other M, right down to an unwelcome departure from the series' regular gameplay (some of my favorite Nintendo games are the black sheeps such as LoZ 2, SSBM[lets be honest here, it is so different from the game before and after it], MK:DD, Kirby SS and CC, Pokemon Colosseum, XD, Super Paper Mario; TTYD is still better though) and horrible characterization of its protagonist. Not to mention the smug hypocrites at Nintendo Tokyo only using DK and "The Banana" as characters due to deeming the other DKC characters "not fresh enough" for gamers. Thank goodness it sold poorly, because had it been successful, we may never have gotten another Country game, or may never have seen guys like Diddy again outside of spin-offs.

My reasons for liking JB: DK is actually shown to be an athletic, able to use ground slap in the air, can wall cling. For so long, it felt like DDK was trying to usurp his uncle and was not cool with that. I like all the Kongs, but no one should be trying to usurp anyone when both parties have a distinct personality (different case for Mario franchise as Luigi appears to be the only one with a personality). Luigi doesn't lose his popularity when Mario solely appears playable. Some of these statements sound like they stem from more hysteria over the fact they didn't go the stale DKC route. I like DKC, but I also like more than just platforms. For some reason, people like certain Nintendo franchises to be a niche, but once it gets large enough in sales, they are OK with spin-offs (Pokemon, Kirby, Mario). I didn't really mind Nintendo taking the route they did, but if they went further into developing it.... DK in JB is great in terms of actually being able to fight in a somewhat competent manner. My main gripe extends from DKC1 as the bosses are just giant versions and repeats of regular enemies and the horrible hitbox detection on the platforms (it's platforming game with horrible platforms, C'mon). At least the combo system was pretty fun to me in JB (and future installments of DKC-esque games). Plus, the protagonist's reasons to fight in the DKC (64 does not really count and we know it) games were really no better: He took my bananas! KILL HIM AND HIS CROCODILE ARMY AND KILL THE CREATURES THAT ARE ON THIS ISLAND THAT AREN'T REALLY ASSOCIATED WITH HIM. The music in JB was pretty nice as well. Also, you could use your GC controller, so there really should be no issue. The main problem could be the difficulty felt dumbed down, but that happened with the majority of games at the time to appeal to a broader audience.

 

[BKupa666]

I can appreciate black sheep games as much as anyone (I adore Sunshine, for example), but it's not as though those games' developers thumbed their noses at their franchise's pasts and claimed them to "not be fresh enough" anymore. The threat of those black sheep becoming their series' new norm wasn't near as prevalent as it was with Jungle Beat and DKC.

I find it a bit odd that someone who calls DKC "stale" (which, pfft, the last Country was released nearly a decade before Jungle Beat) says that they would have preferred DK to be the main protagonist in all of the games in the same breath, which would have made each game a lot less diverse from its predecessors. But hey, there's a reason 3 is pretty much never mentioned, and why Kiddy is even deader than DK Jr. outside of ports. DK's character in DKC and 64 is that he's a carefree jungle ruler capable of springing into action whenever his friends or bananas are threatened. Jungle Beat turns him into a raging jerkarse invading these different kingdoms because "he wants to be the best." He beats up sleeping pigs and rips the tongues out of fish because they're there, not because they're evil. That portrayal reeked of Nintendo trying way too hard to make him "hip" by rubbing his over-the-top nature in gamers' faces in an "AM I COOL YET? HOW ABOUT NOW??" sort of way.

In summary? Jungle Beat is an alright game, but a poor Donkey Kong game. What with how Nintendo decides on gameplay before placing in characters who fit (or "fit"), Jungle Beat should have been a Bowser game.

 

[Smady]

What with how Nintendo decides on gameplay before placing in characters who fit (or "fit"), Jungle Beat should have been a Bowser game.

Actually wasn't the most obvious example of this by Nintendo.

Spoiler

It is so, so true that Nintendo picks the character now before they develop the gameplay. Rather than moving a development team to another IP to let it grow, they instead force them to develop a x game for the y series, because y is currently the hot new thing. This is what happens when you have rigid development teams that are only differentiated by an arbitrary number; hardly encourages a creative atmosphere.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I'm sorry, but no one mentions DKC3? 2nd best (1st of course DKC2). DKC in itself is a thumb nose to DK's origin and preceding games as well. Nintendo was trying to do was modify the platforming aspect and add plenty of gimmicks so the bongos could sell (though the game was perfectly functional without it). I assume when you mean a "lot less diverse" you are referring specifically referring to DKC2 as I got a vibe that you don't like DKC3. Well DKC3 was the most diverse in level design, boss fights, and best color (but of course it should). I liked DKC all around, but would have liked DKC3 the most if DK was there and not Rugrat on steroids. DK's "jerkarse" behavior can be traced back to his origin and it is quite canon for that behavior.
My main problem with DKC games is that they don't give DK any special abilities (or projectile for that matter in TF). They always give the fun stuff to his partners, in JB, it's only DK and they make DK with plenty of abilities and seem BA (even though he really should come off as arrogant in that game).
Anywho, JB is a fun, short, tech-demo esque game like Luigi's Mansion that probably won't get picked up ever again.
DK 4eva!

 

[BKupa666]

I actually am a massive fan of DKC3 (all of the DKCs, actually; DKC2 > DKC3 > Returns > DKC IMO, with Tropical Freeze unrated until recency bias has passed), but in comparison to the original and 2, it gets absolutely no love in the public eye. Check out Brawl, for example. One Chronicle mention and one mention on Squitter's trophy. That's it. Heck, outside of this forum's DK fans, people here only ever bring it up because of K. Rool's Up Special or because Dixie needs some credential that's not duo data or Tropical Freeze.

DKC itself was the product of Nintendo enlisting Rare's help to revitalize the DK character on a new medium; the series itself prevented DK from becoming Pacman, where people only ever give a damn about him in ports of an 80's arcade game (that isn't even him, but Cranky). That being said, DK being absent from DKC3 was probably a bit much. And although DK has his own skillset in the original, as far as being able to hand slap and tackle bigger enemies, I do wish Retro would change their gameplay so DK isn't this generic player one made interesting by the Kongs riding him, but a unique character in and of himself.

 

[Man Li Gi]

And that is why I like JB since at least Nintendo gave DK some halfway unique tools where in all the DKC games he is the most boring character. Anyway DKC2>DKC3>TF=Returns>DKC1. My problems with TF is that the difficulty curve is quite unbalanced since on one hand, they made it seem like this game would punish you till rage quitting, but then they add numerous ways to increase life and make the game easy for even the scrubbiest players to succeed. This makes me sad and the masochistic nature we picked up in the previous installments was for naught (unless you are playing with a scrub). Anyway, TF makes up for it with the amount of characters, level design, and the vikings.
My problem with Nintendo and what they did with DK after Rare was sold-2010 is that they tried plugging him in everything, not really sure with what they got. IF they had stuck with one genre or type of game, their DK games could have been better. More 2nd or even 3rd party developers have to start making DK games because Nintendo doesn't know how to handle the great ape from Jungle Japes. Beside JB, all the DK games between Rare's "death"-2010 were pretty bunk.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

I've always just wanted a barrel throwing move. I know DK's intended to be a close-range fighter, but the barrels are just too iconic to the character. Not having them has always made me feel like DK's been "missing" something.

I agree with this, I always thought it would have been a really cool twist on him, and the headbutt is really hard to use but this would be easy to use. And it'd buff him up because he wouldn't be so vulnerable

 

[Smady]

I agree with this, I always thought it would have been a really cool twist on him, and the headbutt is really hard to use but this would be easy to use. And it'd buff him up because he wouldn't be so vulnerable

The headbutt is fairly random, although its buff in Project M to make it more of a gimp is really nice.

Honestly I don't think he needs a barrel throw, the way he interprets that right now is actually pretty inventive. This moveset is all about the super strength and that's a good core idea for a Donkey Kong set.