chaingrab

[cj.Shark]

can pit chaingrab? ive done it a few times but im not sure if thats because of my opponents
im kinda confused. so can pit chaingrab with f-throw? and on which chars and percents?

plz post below. a Link is fine too.

 

[Lotsa_Spaghetti]

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sagemoon]

Pit can chain forward throws, however theres a few frames for your opponent to spotdodge (even at the lowest percents). It's useful, but not a true chain grab.

 

[Apollo317]

It's useful because it gives the opponent few options, allowing you to predict what they will do and counter it. For instance, if you try to chainthrow marth, he can break it with his up b, so you expect that, forward throw him, dash forward a lil' bit and then sheild. Then PUNISH.

 

[kupo15]

Pit can chain forward throws, however theres a few frames for your opponent to spotdodge (even at the lowest percents). It's useful, but not a true chain grab.

This is true but I think that certain characters cannot get out of the chain grab until about 40% no matter what
The characters I am positive about are DK and Snake if done right.
There may be others but I am not sure since I do not face them. I think Marth is another good one also but not sure if he is as good as DK or snake.

 

[NxC]

This is true but I think that certain characters cannot get out of the chain grab until about 40% no matter what
The characters I am positive about are DK and Snake if done right.
There may be others but I am not sure since I do not face them. I think Marth is another good one also but not sure if he is as good as DK or snake.

I've only effectively chain grabbed to 30% on certain characters. I can't remember which ones I was practicing on, though.

I've been working on increasing this by doing a backwards throw turned into a pivot-grab, to minimal success.

 

[Ryazan]

The fact of that matter is that he can, but it's ill-advised and not very effective. He has plenty of other tactics with which he can crush those that one would consider chaingrabbing.

 

[kupo15]

The fact of that matter is that he can, but it's ill-advised and not very effective. He has plenty of other tactics with which he can crush those that one would consider chaingrabbing.

I think Pit's chain grabbing is very effective. It is half of my strategy. And when you get good at it, you can predict what they will do, adjust for it, and re grab them again. If you look at some of my matches and my compilation vid, I think I use chain grabbing effectively. Grabbing imo makes you in control of the match at that point. You have the biggest advantage because it is easy to follow up with any strike easily.

Going away from the Forward chain throw, the down throw is very effect for chain grabbing also. 9 times out of 10 they will air dodge immediately after the Dthrow expecting a Uair or some aggresive attack. All you have to do is wait for them to come back down and re grab them. After they get what you are doing, you can change the throw to do mindgames because that 9/10 chance goes down with every Dthrow>wait>regrab. After a bit I do an Uthrow to Uair because it launches them high enough to get hit even with an air dodge.

One thing I like to do is chain them across the stage then down throw. Since you are at the ledge, there is going to be only one way they will DI and that is to the other end. They will most like air dodge so all you have to do is wait for them to come down and re grab them. If the damage isn't too high then you can Fthrow chain grab them back across the stage once or twice. Effective chain grabbing is all about good predictability which is easier to do with a grab than anything else imo.

One last thing, after you have chained them and feel that this throw might be the last one, a good finisher is to do Dthrow to Bair. It'll change things since you act more aggressively than the other throws.

 

[Ryazan]

I see. For some reason I never considered that even though I watch your vids a lot. And like I said in the Angel Step thread, AS can be used to increase the effect of the chainthrow by making it a mindgame.

 

[kupo15]

Correct. I love grabs so much that I sometimes get punished for trying too hard and missing the initial grab

 

[Ryanarius]

This is true but I think that certain characters cannot get out of the chain grab until about 40% no matter what
The characters I am positive about are DK and Snake if done right.
There may be others but I am not sure since I do not face them. I think Marth is another good one also but not sure if he is as good as DK or snake.

Are you sure about snake? I'm pretty sure he can spot dodge it. I wouldn't be surprised for dk but I don't think it works against snake.

 

[Ryazan]

I'm pretty sure EVERYONE can spotdodge it. It's just easier to spotdodge for some characters.

 

[kupo15]

I don't think so. I have played against good snakes who can't get out of the grab. I mean, the hitstun animation looks longer than most characters. Because DK is so huge, I feel like his hitbox is far in front of him which would explain why the graphic of Pit's grab shows him grabbing nothing why DK is flailing away trying to escape.
If anything, I don't think the reaction is possible from a human to escape with certain characters given a situation. They would have to be lvl 9 cpus. I have faced good players who can't get out of the chain grabs so I know from exp that it is effective. And even with the ones who can, you can Fthrow>run up and wait for the Sidestep to finish>Grab.

I still believe that predicting the next move is the easiest after a throw than any other move in the game thus allowing you to chain with relative easy if your agile enough.

 

[Ryazan]

I think no Snake you've played can escape it because they're not prepared for it. Very few Pit mainers, let alone Snake mainers, know about the chainthrow.

 

[kupo15]

That is very true which is why I don't think they can escape it. But the friends I play know about the pseudo chain throw, yet they still can't get out of it. All the DK's and Snakes I've played that know about the CG or not, freak out by trying to mashing every button faster than humanly possible while I just chain them across FD.

I know that Mario is not chain grabbed well, but I was able to do Fthrow>DThrow>Nair>ART as shown in my compilation vid. Even though the chain grab most of time has to be prepared well and surprising, I still feel that certain characters can not escape it until the perc is high enough.

 

[Ryazan]

Well the only explanation for that is that DK and Snake can't escape it.

Oh my god.

You know what this means?

WE HAVE AN EDGE AGAINST SNAKES!!!!!

 

[kupo15]

Yes we have a big advantage over them

Snake: Chain grab across FD. At the last grab at the ledge, let them wriggle out so they fall off, catch the cypher (doesn't work all the time)
Angel ring counters Usmash edge gaurding.

DK: Chain grabs, big target with arrows, should be easily gimped, big target. And for some reason, Dk seems to be the one with the longest hitstun after a down throw. Every one I face stays in that stun animation long enough to remind me of Melee. Idk y...

 

[Ryazan]

Is Pit like a DK counter or something? And I didn't know Cypher has item properties...

 

[kupo15]

Idk if pit is a counter per say, he is an easy match up. And no the cypher doesn't have item properties lol 'Catching the cypher' a term used for grabbing snake out of the Up b. If you do this one the ledge so his feet hang out, DONT HIT HIM, and let him wriggle, he will fall without any jumps or an Up B. You can also make things quicker by actually grabbing the cypher. This will hurt you a bit, but the cypher will disappear and he will fall so you don't have to wait for him to wriggle out. I did it in the this vid. on his second stock http://youtube.com/watch?v=h6Vq7WC4Xm0

 

[Ryazan]

Ah...I see...I might just find that helpful. We're not as bad against Snakes as I thought. Maybe now I'll finally beat this friend of mine who plays Snake and kicks my ***.

 

[kupo15]

Yes its pretty nice, The good Snakes know of this which is why you see them Up B earlier than expected all the time. So you must force a way to make them use the Up B below the stage. This is one reason why the WoI countered ledge attack could be useful since it knocks them in the prime location to perform this glitch. Keep in mind that they do have a second jump that you should be able to Dtilt spike when their head pops up. Im going to post this same thing in that thread also

 

[Ryazan]

You are God, Kupo. Thanks for all that awesome info.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Why was I not aware of this earlier?!?!! I can't tell you how useful 30 percent a stock against the umpteen Snakes I face would be.

 

[Ryazan]

Is that sarcasm?

And it's possible to do the chainthrow after 40%; it's just really hard. I wouldn't advise that you try it in a match unless you practice Pit A LOT.

 

[kupo15]

Np ^_^

yes you can do it past 40% but use your judgment. See how the player is reacting to your chain throws as th percent increases. If you feel that the next throw will not work because of DI or something, then mix it up. At that moment, I like to do a down throw, wait and re grab. Although now I think about it, maybe Dthrow>wait>Bair would be better if you don't think you can pull off anymore combos. Or maybe even a Dthrow>wait>ART>Dtilt>(Bair)

The chances of them air dodge after the Dthrow after all of the Fthrows is high because its instinct.

 

[sagemoon]

Are you sure about snake? I'm pretty sure he can spot dodge it. I wouldn't be surprised for dk but I don't think it works against snake.

Snake can spotdodge, i'm sure on this one. However at 0 percent you can f-throw snake into a jab

 

[rinoH]

i did not know that you could chain grab snake but i thought you could chain grab mario too to like 30 percent

 

[kupo15]

Are you sure Sagemoon? Im pretty sure Snake can't spot dodge. The shield comes up maybe but there isn't enough time to pull off the dodge. I think that the reaction to spot dodge the frame needed isn't fast enough in the heat of battle.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

If Snake can shield, then he can spotdodge it. But if your opponent doesn't have the necessary reactions for it, it's as good as any chaingrab.

 

[Ryazan]

Are you sure Sagemoon? Im pretty sure Snake can't spot dodge. The shield comes up maybe but there isn't enough time to pull off the dodge. I think that the reaction to spot dodge the frame needed isn't fast enough in the heat of battle.

I've used this against Snakes. It's possible for them to spotdodge but they'll usually shield or roll because their spotdodge is kinda slow. If they roll away I pursue and either try again or try something else, if they roll behind I SH Bair, and if they shield I use ART on the shield. There's a way around everything they can do to escape.

 

[henrytran]

I think Pit's chain grabbing is very effective. It is half of my strategy. And when you get good at it, you can predict what they will do, adjust for it, and re grab them again. If you look at some of my matches and my compilation vid, I think I use chain grabbing effectively. Grabbing imo makes you in control of the match at that point. You have the biggest advantage because it is easy to follow up with any strike easily.

Going away from the Forward chain throw, the down throw is very effect for chain grabbing also. 9 times out of 10 they will air dodge immediately after the Dthrow expecting a Uair or some aggresive attack. All you have to do is wait for them to come back down and re grab them. After they get what you are doing, you can change the throw to do mindgames because that 9/10 chance goes down with every Dthrow>wait>regrab. After a bit I do an Uthrow to Uair because it launches them high enough to get hit even with an air dodge.

One thing I like to do is chain them across the stage then down throw. Since you are at the ledge, there is going to be only one way they will DI and that is to the other end. They will most like air dodge so all you have to do is wait for them to come down and re grab them. If the damage isn't too high then you can Fthrow chain grab them back across the stage once or twice. Effective chain grabbing is all about good predictability which is easier to do with a grab than anything else imo.

One last thing, after you have chained them and feel that this throw might be the last one, a good finisher is to do Dthrow to Bair. It'll change things since you act more aggressively than the other throws.

I would agree heavily with Kupo's input on Pit's use of throws. I pay attention to the patterns I have used in the past, and try to mix it up after a few uses to keep my opponent off balanced. Some people i mmediately airdodge after flying upwards, while some people don't. Paying close attention to their patterns helps feed your grab game combos. it goes without saying that many people immediately airdodge after being down-thrown by Pit, because of the Uair that easily follows after it. Either timing a wait, or using perhaps another aerial helps with throwing the person off, and gives you more damage/a hit.

I don't read into mechanics as much as I should, but Pit's back-throw sometimes throws people really far off. Maybe something about DI, smash-DI, I don't know. But save that for 160%+ and it can kill sometimes.

As for something about Snakes; I'm surprised a lot of people are saying Pit have it easy versus Snake. I wouldn't say Snake has Pits number, but Snake is no pushover, and takes forever to die. But I guess this isn't the Pit vs. Snake thread.

 

[kupo15]

I don't read into mechanics as much as I should, but Pit's back-throw sometimes throws people really far off. Maybe something about DI, smash-DI, I don't know. But save that for 160%+ and it can kill sometimes.

Are you saying that you should use Bthrow to kill at this %? I use Fthrow at high damage because I thought it was the most powerful of the four throws. But using Bthrow to unbalance your foe is a good Idea. Usually ppl DI my Fthrow up all the time so a back throw might not be DIed as much. Not sure all I know is I hardly use Bthrow and I think I should

 

[cj.Shark]

also shotting lots of arrows (duh) is a good idea as it blocks nikita and nades. bending arrows to hit his DSmash Land mine really works to your advantage.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I consider this to be a Minor chaingrab (Or Semi-Chaingrab) because it can be avoided, but heavier chars have harder times escaping. Against many chars, i have been able to chain about 2-5 F-throws successfully (depending on the opponent's character). I only done it when the opponent is at 0% for such reasons. Really helped against DK. However, a Rob that can DI could stop the chaingrab before it actually begins, meaning he can escape after the first throw. Different characters can escape at different times, and I think Pit can escape on the first or second F-throw.
This was from my experience with the Semi-Chaingrab.
This was one of my common combos that involve the chaingrab:
Against a DK: 3 F-throws to a D-throw to a U-air, and aim an arrow at him.

That's just one of the many things you can do with Pit's little Chaingrab.

 

[henrytran]

Are you saying that you should use Bthrow to kill at this %? I use Fthrow at high damage because I thought it was the most powerful of the four throws. But using Bthrow to unbalance your foe is a good Idea. Usually ppl DI my Fthrow up all the time so a back throw might not be DIed as much. Not sure all I know is I hardly use Bthrow and I think I should

I'm actually not sure how strong the Fthrow is in terms of knockback. I regularly use it in my grab game/combo game, so I'm sure it gets weakened through repeated use. I do recall throwing people off the screen with Bthrow, but never with Fthrow. Maybe Fthrow can, but I just don't save it. I'd go test this now, but I do not have access to my Wii.

In any case, I think most people use the Fthrow for chaingrabbing purposes, and dash attack comboing afterwards sometimes... Dthrow-> Uair combo, but not so much Back-throw. Its just what I've reserved that move for, I suppose. Though if someone can tell me about good set-ups/combos with the Back Throw, I'd be glad to try it too.

 

[Ryos4]

I know this is about pits chain grabs. But there was something i was wondering. For those who play pit. They should know that pit can get away from chain grabs rather easily, more so then most, just by jumping. Though that also seems to get me into trouble alot, if they expect it. What are peoples take on the situation when they know u are going to get away and are prepared to attack afterwards?

I usually just try to jump out of a chain grab and hope for the best. lol. I think that i try to air dodge, but idk if there is enough time, atleast not enough time with button lag.

 

[Ryazan]

They can't grab you if you're in the air, so I low-glide and Glair them.

 

[kupo15]

They can't grab you if you're in the air, so I low-glide and Glair them.

Not entirely true. You can grab someone who is eye level with Pit in the air. That is about the cutoff line. The tether ppl can't grab in the air I believe. I could never do it as Link in melee and was annoyed by it

 

[Felis]

Aside from chaining F throws till the edge and then D throw into a combo or another grab i find that on that sometimes you can F throw > F Throw > to Side B which works on most characters. One that comes to mind is Samus where you can get about 30%-40% from Zero with this. Yeah so just mix it up you can use this instead of D throw. Try it out for your self its really good for "get away from me" type move chain

 

[kupo15]

Yea, I actually have been experimenting with ART tech chases when you Fthrow at a percent where it knocks them too far away