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Have never tried bthrow upair, very cool thanks. Also a lot of the time when I try to side b uptilt I either get another hit of side b or the uptilt just doesn't come out at all, am I doing it too fast?
Do you have any examples of pivot grabbing Bair? I’ve heard you mention it a few times but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in action.
Here you go lol
It sounds like your Dtilt problem is coming more from your inability to abuse stage advantage, but yes if you'd like to mix up your risk-reward with Dtilt then that's totally fine.Vs Fox, even if you're hitting with dtilt, is it possible to be using it too much? In the neutral when you could be moving/waiting instead, and when you think the Fox will be retreating but where dtilt may only give a stage position reward whereas grab or fsmash may give a bigger reward for not that much increased risk?
I recently had a set with a Fox where I hit him with dtilt a ton and to a lesser extent, overshoot grab, over the course of the set and barely lost. It seemed like I was hitting him so much where even if I got the spacing advantage I wasn't able to properly capitalize. This especially happened on FD where I lost twice. I've been trying to theory my way through a ground based neutral vs Fox, at least until 50%+ where nair starts knocking you down. It is still a work in progress unfortunately
There's an important tournament coming up here in two weeks that Mew2King is coming to, and I'll probably be second seed. So I really want to understand as much as I can before then if that's cool. PP, do you think you tend to do better in the ditto because you understand the neutral situations and what characters are unable to do in certain situations? Ex: If Fox or Marth is dashing backwards and they are far enough to where they can't reverse direction without wavedashing, do you recognize this immediately and attempt to gain space since what they can hit you with is very low? Do you recognize this with wavedash spacings in front of you? Like in the ditto, how Marth can only attack with dtilt at certain spacings in front of him which cause him to move forward first if he doesn't do a standing dtilt?
And knowing these things and being able to play precisely around them makes you good at the floatier matchups specifically? This is just guessing cause I'm really wondering why you are so good at the ditto specifically but even Marth v. Peach and the one game v. Hungrybox you played years ago it seemed like you were good at that and careful not to overextend but still attack once in awhile.
IDK I may try to get some opinions on my set cause playing too low risk but then overextending seems like it may have been an issue for me but I don't understand enough to be able to make that decision, I think.
Hope all is well.
Sharking is abusing advantageous ground position. It's abusing Marth's large range and disjoint and mobility advantage over airborne opponents. It often involves burning floaty options like Peach float or a couple Puff jumps. The Uair that covers everything would normally only occur at the end of sharking or if an opponent decided not to use an option and commit to coming down early.
Run in and grab, Dtilt/Fair/Nair them as they shine(Dtilt seems best for this), or retreating aerial like you mentioned will work pretty well. You can also just back up a little and CC if they Nair, or just dash/WD through them to cross them up. You could even Fsmash if you were sure they'd commit, and they'd be holding down which is pretty good.
CC grab in place or running grab? I don't...think you can CC grab in place this? I'd grind this out if I were you and maybe make sure you AC the Nair and space it. If that does really lose to CC (run) grab, then I'd say you can Dtilt between their Dtilts or just Fsmash'ing. You can grab between too like you said. Honestly, double Dtilt is super good in the ditto because people usually want to punish dash back after the first Dtilt and they need to be grounded and move in to do it. It's also generally pretty hard to punish, meaning if you ever do any Dtilt they need to respect it more if you switch between double Dtilt and do nothing/dash back for example.
Dr Peepee
There's some neutral game questions/observations I'd like to go over with you to see if I'm making sense or not.
Does this also tie into say, understanding when or why I would want to go for certain lengths of dashes? Going "ok, I need to be sure to dash/wd this sort of length because I know that'll give me the time I need to be able to react here"
I've shortened and lengthened dashes and drifts but I never really understood why that would be a thing to optimize on the human level (The part about seeing how close I can be and still be able to react to an action). I've mostly just done it because "Oh, it's good to mix it up or just because 'it's good lol'" I've never really had a concrete explanation as to why and how it could be practiced. I think this is why your play when you're really on your game looks so well coordinated and even choreographed. I don't want to always put you on some pedestal or put other players down but frankly I rarely if ever see those sorts of qualities from even top 50 marths. If you can practice it than anyone can if they're willing to put in the work it seems.
If he's approaching, you can make PS work more in your favor. Also dash side B to intercept laser or take laser jab can be pretty good at stuffing what he wants to do. You can also get on side platform depending on how much space and time you have and work your Fair game there. Some Falcos complain about AC Nair over lasers, so you could try that too. It's a pretty bad spot in general for Marth so there's only so much you can do. WD/running past people, taking space incrementally with dashes/moving in WD back or some zoning are some options you can use in other matchups to pull yourself out of the corner.
Yeah it's really just about doing the work once you know the principles. Mixups are good because they make one action into many actions and one position into many positions. They're not good because it's more stuff, they're good because you make it so everything is impossible to cover. If you do them well, they're also good because they give you a way to know more than your opponent in a position, which is very strong.
Yeah right now we've talked about the principles, now I think it's time I keep grinding it out. I've been practicing and seeing how it's been leading my play and it's definitely made a difference. Mistakes make more sense and things that work make more sense.
Yeah people make the game too complicated with all of the tech. This is why discussing shield dropping and ucf endlessly drives me up a wall since it misses everything you can do to be good regardless.
I’m wondering. When breaking down moves in the ways that you’ve talked about in the past (do a movement, think about possible paths of action before/after, focus on distance in relation to time and reactions) it often feels.... boring? It feels repetitive, much of it seems obvious, and it doesn’t really feel like there’s a lot of congitive dissonance happening.
