Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Dr Peepee]

There are other ingredients needed for cognitive resilience to take effect, so I suppose I should have included these components in my definition as well:

Cognitive resilience also requires intimate game knowledge in order to verify that you have successfully formulated a solution. For example, knowing how many frames of advantage Peach's dsmash has on shield (and accounting for the amount of ticks that connect with your shield). Can you wavedash out of shield and grab, or do you need to conserve frames more and go for a f-air out of shield? How does lightshielding interact with Peach's dsmash?

Beyond mere frame data, knowing the range of hitboxes and being able to readily map vectors internally that allow for your plan to be spatially workable.

Personally, I did not want to categorize cognitive resilience as a mere advancement of psychological perception and game sense because cognitive resilience feels so very specialized - it lives in analytics and an extensive web of conditional statements. Clauses such as "I can dash forward to threaten d-tilt but if he full jumps over it as he has done historically, I need to be prepared to react with short hop uair out of dash". Naturally, such a process of systematic rationalization gets connected in a range of ways for players whose parameterization will differ based on each person's unique approach to the game, which will obviously yield varying levels of success. So I think that it is a skill that can be cultivated separately.

To your first point about dsmash/ticks/etc wouldn't that just be an extension of game sense? You need to know when you're able to act and how likely it is you'll be able to connect, which you'd intuitively know after working with game knowledge and game sense together, right?

As for the clauses, how do they differ from game sense which seemed to already have clauses internalized based on your description?

I guess you can describe a situation and how each element goes into it and how someone can learn more about each to differentiate, but I have to wonder how much of this warrants its own category and how much of this is about conscious vs internalized knowledge.

Would you say a good way to understand the concept of simplicity in Melee is something like "quality over quantity"? That makes a lot of sense to me, and would indicate the best way to practice is to take just a few basic tools and look at them really deeply. This is something I've been trying to do, and it's really deepened my understanding of Marth even when I haven't gone as nearly as far in as I know I could yet.

Something I've been struggling with has to do with this. I think it's some issue in my game sense? I often misspace or mistime moves so slightly that I get this "that should have worked" feeling where it wasn't that I necessarily did the wrong thing, but I did it at the wrong time/spacing; it costs me a lot of margin when it happens several times per game, and it demoralizes me more than I'd like to admit (something else I need to work on). I'm not quite sure how to approach it though, because I think the "why"s kind of vary. Sometimes I think it's because I'm hesitating, other times because I misjudged a distance, or thought I had a bigger frame advantage than I really did. It also happens in such variable situations that it doesn't seem feasible to recreate them all in 20xx and spam responses.

What I'm trying to get at is if you think just deepening my understanding of all my moves will address this problem by improving my confidence/reaction time/awareness, or if it's something to be improved by noting and drilling situations that give me trouble? Do you think my problem might have something to do with overcomplicating my play and committing myself to useless moves/movement?

Yeah the quality over quantity works perfectly.

I had the same type of problem with Marth a lot too. Turns out, I didn't really understand the positions and also was reacting too late/not predicting well/not conditioning my opponent for easier reactions on my part. Sure some of it can certainly be doubt, but I'd argue that doubt could also be coming from whiffing on a committal move so much. If you want to work on a specific situation where this happens we can talk about it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I guess these virtuosic classifications do break down at a certain point. Especially since most of them aren't very quantifiable. Maybe I should stick with the old school methodology - the "neutral game", "punish game", "tech skill", "mind games" system of admeasurement.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah my own conception of it is something like

neutral(includes stuff like threatening range, in fighting, out fighting, purposes of tools, etc)

punish(includes combos, pseudo combos, juggling, tech chasing, edgeguarding, etc)

technical knowledge(such as frames and hitboxes that inform everything else....seems like a separate skill anyway though it's arguable)

out of game skills(health, emotional preparedness, visualization, etc)

Works pretty well for me. Cactus puts punish in the same boat as tech skill as it's something to be learned and executed by rote, but I think punish is more interactive than that(consider Marth's 50/50s between Ken Combo and Dair that you can influence with movement/conditioning prior to executing).

 

[Kotastic]

Hey PP. Watching your old Apex 2015 set vs Armada's Peach, I noticed how a lot of Armada's opportunities to put on the hurt was to FC aerial --> spotdodge. This is something that gets me more often than it should. Is it possible to DD grab or whatever Peach's FC aerial, or is it simply better to just wait out the spotdodge.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It kinda depends on how close you are, how far Peach goes with her FC, and what your actions are before the spotdodge as to whether you can hit. Armada's peach never goes forward very far, so I can also be pretty close when dealing with his FC. So I just need to make sure I'm not doing something like dashing in when peach falls with FC(so I don't get hit and also so I have access to dash forward to grab). However, if peach decides to FC from farther away than normal than you won't be able to grab no matter what. So it really does just depend. If you want to link situations from that set that's fine.

 

[Kotastic]

Sure thing.

https://youtu.be/IomXcdAAt7E?t=4m20s - here you DA instead of grab, but you think grab would still work?
https://youtu.be/IomXcdAAt7E?t=19m8s - might not be strictly FC but my point stands

There are other instances where Armada spotdodges but looking at it again it's moreso a read rather than a FC thing. I'm just wondering if it's even possible to grab a FC aerial.

 

[Dr Peepee]

For the first one, yeah but Nair is usually harder to react to and lower to the ground so it can be more difficult. If you practice the reaction it should be fine though.

For the second, you need to react earlier than I did, or just Utilt instead of pivot grab lol.

 

[lokt]

I have a question about marth corner pressure.

I've noticed fighting against samus that if I do a late spaced fair on samus's shield and dash back as she wavedashes back oos, My corner pressure collapses.

What options can marth do after hitting a shield with late fair, besides dashing back?

Can late fair to rising fair be good? How about dtilt on shield?

 

[Dr Peepee]

why don't you just not dash back? you can just stand there and hold down. if she WDs in oos you just dtilt, and if she moves back you can push forward again. either way you don't always need to dash back. the repeated dash back ruins so much for many marth players.

 

[lokt]

why don't you just not dash back? you can just stand there and hold down. if she WDs in oos you just dtilt, and if she moves back you can push forward again. either way you don't always need to dash back. the repeated dash back ruins so much for many marth players.

I think I dash back because it's low risk and let's me cover in roll in for free on reaction. (of course this doesn't apply to samus, just a bad habit at this point).

But I guess it makes sense not to do it if I've conditioned my opponent to stop rolling into center, I can cover options that dash back doesn't.

 

[Hmus]

Hey PPMD,

I've got a question regarding Marth vs. Spacies. What can Marth do when a spacie especially Falco camp on the side platforms and are proficient at shield dropping. I find that spacies have numerous mix-ups on the platform that require me to respect them. Whatever aerial attack I do, it will get countered by shield dropping. What can Marth do in this situation?

 

[Uma]

Check out this graph

This is only counting top 100 players.

Kind of feel like in 2017 Marth is becoming a character you dual main with if you actually want to see success, and that sucks. Leffen mostly just saying Marth mains are lazy/bad but to be honest he may actually just be better suited as a counter pick character. For me personally, I've developed a Falco to cover matchups that are unnecessarily hard with Marth and also just because Marth straight up is not that fun to practice compared to spacies.

Things to note from graph: 1: Jiggs obviously skewed because of hbox
2. Same applies for peach, Marth would have a huge winrate on peach if not for Armada
3. Marths getting destroyed in multiple "winning" matchups like icies and samus.

Source: https://blog.smash.gg/year-end-review-marth-5bf5a15aeb9a

 

[Uma]

Hey PPMD,

I've got a question regarding Marth vs. Spacies. What can Marth do when a spacie especially Falco camp on the side platforms and are proficient at shield dropping. I find that spacies have numerous mix-ups on the platform that require me to respect them. Whatever aerial attack I do, it will get countered by shield dropping. What can Marth do in this situation?

You have to space your aerials on his shield so that you outrange him and none of his moves hit you. He can't stay there forever and you might get a shield poke. You should also mix in some waveland grabs if he's shielding a lot. Just don't panic and remember to be patient. He can't hurt you from the platform if you're on the ground.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Check out this graph

This is only counting top 100 players.

Kind of feel like in 2017 Marth is becoming a character you dual main with if you actually want to see success, and that sucks. Leffen mostly just saying Marth mains are lazy/bad but to be honest he may actually just be better suited as a counter pick character. For me personally, I've developed a Falco to cover matchups that are unnecessarily hard with Marth and also just because Marth straight up is not that fun to practice compared to spacies.

Things to note from graph: 1: Jiggs obviously skewed because of hbox
2. Same applies for peach, Marth would have a huge winrate on peach if not for Armada
3. Marths getting destroyed in multiple "winning" matchups like icies and samus.

Source: https://blog.smash.gg/year-end-review-marth-5bf5a15aeb9a

My interpretation would be the following:
Marth doing relatively well against Fox while being the less common character gives the Marth players a matchup knowledge advantage, which explains why they do well against Fox. Because there are so many Fox players, Marth mains go further in bracket than they usually would, therefore play against better players, and will do bad against non-Fox players in these later tournament stages.

There are so many other skewing factors in this, for example comparing the average rank of the players contributing the sets, I'm sure Samus and Ice Climbers had better players in average, when facing Marths.

I'm always a skeptic when it comes to these kinds of stats, because there is a lot of statistical variance, many skewing factors and it only reflects how the characters are currently played and not how they could be played.

I assume Marth will also do better as level of play increases because of good neutral game and being punished hard for mistakes.

It really depends and is probably a preference thing, too. If you have more fun with spacies, playing them might currently be better suited to help your growth as a player.

 

[Uma]

My interpretation would be the following:
Marth doing relatively well against Fox while being the less common character gives the Marth players a matchup knowledge advantage, which explains why they do well against Fox. Because there are so many Fox players, Marth mains go further in bracket than they usually would, therefore play against better players, and will do bad against non-Fox players in these later tournament stages.

There are so many other skewing factors in this, for example comparing the average rank of the players contributing the sets, I'm sure Samus and Ice Climbers had better players in average, when facing Marths.

I'm always a skeptic when it comes to these kinds of stats, because there is a lot of statistical variance, many skewing factors and it only reflects how the characters are currently played and not how they could be played.

I assume Marth will also do better as level of play increases because of good neutral game and being punished hard for mistakes.

It really depends and is probably a preference thing, too. If you have more fun with spacies, playing them might currently be better suited to help your growth as a player.

I really don't agree with you here. Marth is one of the most popular characters and this is a top 100 list, these players have to be at least somewhat competent against a character as popular as Marth to get where they're at. Also you could then use that argument for any character under fox that has a winning record on him. Anyway, the point of the post wasn't the slight advantage over fox, but the UNDENIABLY LOW win percentage against the other characters on the list.

 

[RaptorJesus]

I have a lot of trouble approaching falcon. Mainly bc most falcons love to jump and a lot of times I'll dtilt or grab under their sh aerial and get punished. I get a lot of success out of baiting falcons approaches but against patient falcons I feel like I need to know how to approach them safely. I try to use fair more but i think my problem is i use it the same way I use dtilt and it's more committal so if I miss I feel like a sitting duck. Any tips for approaching in the mu?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hey PPMD,

I've got a question regarding Marth vs. Spacies. What can Marth do when a spacie especially Falco camp on the side platforms and are proficient at shield dropping. I find that spacies have numerous mix-ups on the platform that require me to respect them. Whatever aerial attack I do, it will get countered by shield dropping. What can Marth do in this situation?

I'm nearly positive you can just space Fair and they can't shield drop hit you. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but if you run up Fair in place(no forward momentum, maybe some backward) I think you'll be okay, especially if it's falling Fair. If you struggle with other options we can talk about those.

Check out this graph

This is only counting top 100 players.

Kind of feel like in 2017 Marth is becoming a character you dual main with if you actually want to see success, and that sucks. Leffen mostly just saying Marth mains are lazy/bad but to be honest he may actually just be better suited as a counter pick character. For me personally, I've developed a Falco to cover matchups that are unnecessarily hard with Marth and also just because Marth straight up is not that fun to practice compared to spacies.

Things to note from graph: 1: Jiggs obviously skewed because of hbox
2. Same applies for peach, Marth would have a huge winrate on peach if not for Armada
3. Marths getting destroyed in multiple "winning" matchups like icies and samus.

Source: https://blog.smash.gg/year-end-review-marth-5bf5a15aeb9a

You can break it down by character, neutral win %, edgeguard %, punish %, how efficient their movement is, how they lose on every stage, etc. I honestly don't care. The fact is these stats are just representations of how things are right now. Every time I watch any Marth play, including M2K, I see many many things they can do better in a few seconds, never mind an entire game or set. Whether you have faith in Marth or not, I'd like to think we should max out the character's potential before writing him off. Additionally, top 100 players on the lower end are much more volatile and more prone to lose with Marth if my theory about Marth only paying rewards with higher levels of mastery is true.

I have a lot of trouble approaching falcon. Mainly bc most falcons love to jump and a lot of times I'll dtilt or grab under their sh aerial and get punished. I get a lot of success out of baiting falcons approaches but against patient falcons I feel like I need to know how to approach them safely. I try to use fair more but i think my problem is i use it the same way I use dtilt and it's more committal so if I miss I feel like a sitting duck. Any tips for approaching in the mu?

You can't attack as much in the matchup as you'd probably like. If patient Falcons aren't going to come in, you can get up really close and rising Fair them(if you hit shield it's okay) if you're pretty sure it'll hit(or just wait and push them back). I also do this thing where I run up Nair in place. It beats their Nair in place and it's also pretty hard to grab if possible at all.

 

[RaptorJesus]

I guess my problem is knowing when to go in or not, cause I do rising fair as an approach in the mu, and it works sometimes either catching the sh or grounded, but my problem is more just when they dash back and punish my fair. The risk reward probable gets a lot better for me if he's in the corner right?

 

[Dr Peepee]

That's right, you don't want to jump in/Fair all that much unless he's cornered. Then you can go crazy. Otherwise run up grab/Dtilt/Nair/wait are better options unless you have a super good read.

 

[heyitshoward]

Do you have any book recommendations?
Recently I've been reading a lot during my breaks at work and I've gone through The Inner Game of Tennis, The Art of Learning, and The Power of Now. I'm also currently working on "How Champions Think" by Dr. Robert Rotella.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'll recommend a few since you seem like you're gonna read a lot

Unlimited Power/Awaken the Giant Within

The Talent Code

Top Dog

 

[Uma]

PP I definitely can't refute that Marths can be better and it's easy to see there flaws. Moon got third today at GOML and he can't chaingrab on fd lmao. I can find a thousand holes in my game sitting down with a VOD but I still want to try dual maining because...
My **** tier natural competitive mindset (bored vs people I dont respect/nervous against those I do) can make Marth's more difficult matchups completely break me sometimes, and I never feel that way in his better MUs. Of course I should have confidence in myself and not the matchup but I don't, so I'm gonna use my Falco crutch and see if it's just what I needed.

 

[Maharg]

PP about two weeks ago I posted here about how I didn't have a way to get in practice on spacies and you suggested Netplay. I'd first just like to thank you for that I've gotten in a lot of practice.
Of course with my lack of knowledge in the matchup I lost in the beginning but I slowly got the hang of things and how to counter most approaches. But I couldn't find a way to deal with constant lazor span especially from Fox. With Fox they would just run away lazor me to X percent do a combo they've clearly practiced the combo would end and then they would go back to shooting lazors until another combo chance shows itself. With Falco it would be pillar combo, lazor, pillar combo, lazor, etc etc etc.
I could get in but not be able to punish them, I've tried to get underneath them and catch them with a short hop fast fall up-air or maybe a n-air but they could just jump or side b away. So is this just matchup inexperience and I just need to grind more (I'm out of school I'm putting in at least 6ish hours a day so I have plenty of time to train) or is there a way to deal with lazors that I'm not thinking of or noticing.
Please bestow you wisdom upon me.

 

[Zorcey]

PP I definitely can't refute that Marths can be better and it's easy to see there flaws. Moon got third today at GOML and he can't chaingrab on fd lmao. I can find a thousand holes in my game sitting down with a VOD but I still want to try dual maining because...
My **** tier natural competitive mindset (bored vs people I dont respect/nervous against those I do) can make Marth's more difficult matchups completely break me sometimes, and I never feel that way in his better MUs. Of course I should have confidence in myself and not the matchup but I don't, so I'm gonna use my Falco crutch and see if it's just what I needed.

This isn't a mentality conducive to winning you know - it doesn't matter which character you're playing. I think instead of investing your time into preparing a Falco for Marth's "bad" matchups, you'd do so much better to start practicing mindfulness and build more confidence in Marth and yourself; tournaments break the mentalities of so many people, and if you know have a poor mindset but just try to prop it up with a "crutch," you're never going to get anywhere because there will always be another hurdle.

There are so many questions here that you could ask yourself, and if you looked deep enough into them you'd see there's so much opportunity for growth (which should be exciting instead of demoralizing). Stuff like, "why do I think Marth's matchups are bad - what tools do other characters have Marth can't rival?" or "why do I feel bored versus players worse than me? Is there nothing I can learn from playing them?" or even "why don't I have confidence in myself to win unfavorable matchups when other players can? What makes me different than them?" Anyone could go for pages on questions like these if they tried.

All this said, it's not like I have any credentials yet, so take my advice fwiw; but as someone who's had very similar struggles I can't recommend introspection enough when it comes to mental blocks like these (and any element of improvement, tbh).

 

[Kotastic]

Just a minor question regarding Peach tech chasing.

I've been practicing reaction tech chasing Falcon at low percents for weeks, and I'm starting to get consistent at it. The practice has very well transferred over when I decided to beat up a Peach cpu and try out reaction tech chasing, soooo much easier in comparison lol. However, I have no grounded answers when Peach misses tech, as jab sends up too far even at low percents. Do you think it's reasonably possible to react to her get-up attack if I'm able to reaction tech chase Falcon? I saw you do this a lot with Fox's get-up options in the past (unless it's a read and not a reaction).

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP about two weeks ago I posted here about how I didn't have a way to get in practice on spacies and you suggested Netplay. I'd first just like to thank you for that I've gotten in a lot of practice.
Of course with my lack of knowledge in the matchup I lost in the beginning but I slowly got the hang of things and how to counter most approaches. But I couldn't find a way to deal with constant lazor span especially from Fox. With Fox they would just run away lazor me to X percent do a combo they've clearly practiced the combo would end and then they would go back to shooting lazors until another combo chance shows itself. With Falco it would be pillar combo, lazor, pillar combo, lazor, etc etc etc.
I could get in but not be able to punish them, I've tried to get underneath them and catch them with a short hop fast fall up-air or maybe a n-air but they could just jump or side b away. So is this just matchup inexperience and I just need to grind more (I'm out of school I'm putting in at least 6ish hours a day so I have plenty of time to train) or is there a way to deal with lazors that I'm not thinking of or noticing.
Please bestow you wisdom upon me.

If you take 10% from lasers but then grab them, they're gonna take more damage so don't sweat the percent too much. If they laser they usually have to back up to do it if they're Fox, so just push in and let him come out and then you can punish. For Falco you want to powershield or take laser jab or take laser dash away. All of that makes Falco's life pretty hard and slows him down, which helps you come in.

If you get under them don't spam anything let them come down into your Uair. If they side B away then just don't jump and wait for that then start running when you see it and you can intercept or still pressure where they end up.

Just a minor question regarding Peach tech chasing.

I've been practicing reaction tech chasing Falcon at low percents for weeks, and I'm starting to get consistent at it. The practice has very well transferred over when I decided to beat up a Peach cpu and try out reaction tech chasing, soooo much easier in comparison lol. However, I have no grounded answers when Peach misses tech, as jab sends up too far even at low percents. Do you think it's reasonably possible to react to her get-up attack if I'm able to reaction tech chase Falcon? I saw you do this a lot with Fox's get-up options in the past (unless it's a read and not a reaction).

You can do the M2K thing off Fthrow and just tippered Fair no tech/tech in place and running grab anything else. Or you can just wait yeah. There are other options but it's all option coverage that gives her more chances to get away with more reward for you if it hits. I would just advise practicing the reaction since like you said I can do it so I think you should be able to as well with practice.

 

[ridemyboat]

PP about two weeks ago I posted here about how I didn't have a way to get in practice on spacies and you suggested Netplay. I'd first just like to thank you for that I've gotten in a lot of practice.
Of course with my lack of knowledge in the matchup I lost in the beginning but I slowly got the hang of things and how to counter most approaches. But I couldn't find a way to deal with constant lazor span especially from Fox. With Fox they would just run away lazor me to X percent do a combo they've clearly practiced the combo would end and then they would go back to shooting lazors until another combo chance shows itself. With Falco it would be pillar combo, lazor, pillar combo, lazor, etc etc etc.
I could get in but not be able to punish them, I've tried to get underneath them and catch them with a short hop fast fall up-air or maybe a n-air but they could just jump or side b away. So is this just matchup inexperience and I just need to grind more (I'm out of school I'm putting in at least 6ish hours a day so I have plenty of time to train) or is there a way to deal with lazors that I'm not thinking of or noticing.
Please bestow you wisdom upon me.

For Falco, don't forget that your dash is super low. You can dash or dash grab underneath many lasers. You can also stay at a spacing where they want to shoot a laser and dash grab them. If they do a high laser or at least one that is above dash height, then you get a grab. It obviously doesnt work if you jc your grabs, because Marth will be standing.

 

[capusa27]

Hi Dr Peepee

What emphasis do you place on pivots in Marth's matchups, especially Falco? I've been thinking about Falco, and one of the problems I'm trying to work through is how to deal with Falco's short changes in spacing from lasers. One solution that I have thought about is using pivots and then jab/grab to stop approaching lasers. Thoughts?

 

[Dr Peepee]

If you can pivot jab, I'd think that would be occasionally useful against Falco. You'd mostly get mileage out of it if Falco took a bigger commitment lasering in closer to you, especially with more momentum on his dash than less momentum. However, since that type of committal laser is more rare for Falco in that matchup and because you'd have other, non-pivot options to handle Falco slight lasering in if you're already close enough, then I'd think it's a niche option at best.

 

[HolidayMaker]

PP, yesterday I played a bunch of friendlies with the (arguably) the best Shiek in my region and absolutely the biggest thing that stood out was how he dismantled my shield. Every time he touched my shield I felt like I was being put into a bad 50/50. I know how to CC shield grab the jab pressure but when I started that up it became a big mixup with reading my movement OoS and shield grab attempts and I just felt at a big disadvantage. He would immediate dsmash my movement out, or read a roll or WD out into a grab, or just grab if I tried to wait it out. I ended up feeling like I just shouldn't have been in my shield at all and should have just focused on movement/CCing. Obviously, playing with no shield at all is silly, but I just ended up feeling like every halfway spaced fair on my shield spelled disaster, and that doesn't appear to be the case at high level. I felt like I was mixing things up, but was I just getting read? What should I do?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well it is a bad position, so avoid shielding whenever possible. If you have to shield, then watch for the jab like you have, but sometimes Sheik will empty hop grab or dash back dash in grab after Fair'ing shield, so be ready to counter those things too. If you got Dsmashed on your movement OOS then you could grab or hold shield vs that as well. Beyond that I don't know what to say since you didn't always list how they did it or when, but I'm sure if you slow down higher level matches you'll be able to get more specific answers.

 

[Wexort]

I couple days ago I played a bunch of friendlies with this Captain Falcon player. It was the first time I played him and it went pretty even, but in the later matches he started approaching me more when I was dash dancing and then dash dancing in the space where I was also dash dancing. After we were done playing he mentioned that he thought my dash dance was pretty good and that I was taking space and center stage pretty well but that I wasn't doing anything to defend that space.

I guess my question is how to I defend the space I've taken and when do I know when to back up because I've lost that space?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Against Falcon, you'll want to use Fair and pivot grab to defend your space(CC grab against Nair too if he goes in hard with it I'd imagine....maybe weak knee as well). Maybe side B sometimes too. If the Falcon is too close(inside TR) you will not be able to react and will have to guess. So if you don't know threatening range then you need to learn that. If you get caught offguard and don't have time to put a move out, then yeah you'll have to dash in/away or WD away and reset because shielding is really not what you want to do.

If Falcon pushes in from TR, you can react easily. If he gets kind of close before coming in, you can back out after observing that's what he wants to do, and next time hit him for starting to get close with Fair/running grab before he gets you or whatever. It really depends on how the Falcon makes decisions and what you're threatening, so it's really hard to say beyond this.

 

[Blatant J]

Is it possible to be "good" at in-fighting? On certain stages vs falcon feels like almost nothing is reactable in neutral.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well if you stay in the in fighting range then yes nothing would be reactable. If you move there intentionally or make a play to help you react/beat their options when closer you can pull it off. You're right though, on smaller stages TR is a very very big part of the stage, most of it really. The way to win at in fighting is to accept you can't react to too much but you can still influence and to use movement/attacks sparingly to get a quick result there. Just as importantly it'll matter how you got close in the first place. If you initiated it's different than if Falcon did.

 

[RaptorJesus]

So if falcon/probably other chars too are in TR you say you have to guess, do you think doing something like sh nair but fade back hard would work well to both guess their option and bring you out of TR incase you guess wrong? Basically figuring out ways to guess but have a plan or multiple plans incase you guess wrong

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah that's definitely one good option, as well as retreating double Fair, depending on what you want to beat and the timing of it.

 

[RaptorJesus]

BTW not a question but I played against this falcon from my college that I usually go even with and I lost like one game the whole time we were playing. Granted he def got tilted after the first few losses in a row, but it's def cool to see improvement in the mu

 

[Chesstiger2612]

This sounds simplistic but what has helped me for fighting in threatening range is repositioning quickly and attacking immediately afterwards (like short dash away-> dash in -> sh fair). The idea is to avoid the direct attempt to hit you and counterattack. In threatening range, it is important not to wait until you register a commitment, because attacks will hit you before you can react.

Like everything in the neutral game, it isn't infallible, but I think it is a good starting point from which on you can work out what beats that option and so on, and between which options you ultimately want to mix up.

 

[RaptorJesus]

For sure that's one thing I'm just now getting better at is teaching myself to not try to react when I'm too close. I'll always end up doing stuff just barely too late