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Aksorz1336

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Messages
24
In your advice to Kopaka saying to "punish harder", I assume you mean that he could get way more out of the openings he got? It resonated with me, as it feels like I don't have that hard of a time to win neutral many times, but don't get that much from the exchange.
I tend to suffer from the so called Marthritis and just rack up a ton of damage. I've been trying lately to not be as afraid of using Fsmash to end combos and punish whiffs. So speaking of punish game, what is an efficient way to practice this on your own? Both in theory and practice?
 

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
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Location
Bonn, Germany
Dr Peepee Dr Peepee I'm currently trying to lab out threatening ranges for the relevant characters, but I can't seem to come up with a system that's... good lol. The idea I was working with up to now was to create a broad unit of measurement and see how much ground each move covers, but it feels very clunky, and I'm uncertain about it. But I'm not sure what to do instead? So I wanted to ask what you did to teach yourself threat ranges? How did you lab the information, and organize it and internalize it? What was your system?
If you want to use a unit of measurement for distance, you could use the ingame unit (people apparently call it Mm for Meleemeters, which is pretty funny imo).
Probably most important, you would be able to use ikneedata because it displays x and y-values and if you remember where the characters were, for example in relation to platforms, it is very easy to convert.
 

Blatant J

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
39
Do you think it's important to DD less in MUs where d-tilt is more valuable(e.g shiek,luigi)?
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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In your advice to Kopaka saying to "punish harder", I assume you mean that he could get way more out of the openings he got? It resonated with me, as it feels like I don't have that hard of a time to win neutral many times, but don't get that much from the exchange.
I tend to suffer from the so called Marthritis and just rack up a ton of damage. I've been trying lately to not be as afraid of using Fsmash to end combos and punish whiffs. So speaking of punish game, what is an efficient way to practice this on your own? Both in theory and practice?
Yeah most players don't punish hard enough. For Marth this leads to that marthritis thing. Just edgeguard better to avoid that as well as learn to hit more killing combos.

20XX lets you practice a situation with new DI at the same percent over and over so I tend to like that a lot. For theorycrafting, you can see in a video or imagine a situation in which you have a setup such as uthrow on a spacie and you need to think about all possible punishes and options from there. In the video, you can pause during the setup and guess what happens for each option then unpause and see how your guess lined up with what happened.

Do you think it's important to DD less in MUs where d-tilt is more valuable(e.g shiek,luigi)?
Vs Sheik it's kinda debatable, but vs ics, samus luigi and lower yeah you pretty much don't need to DD or can do it a looooot less anyway.

Dr. Peepee Said:
Why were you more anxious/scared than normal? Did you carry outside stress with you? Have you been taking worse care of your body with you? Have you been talking to others who get really anxious when they play? If you don't know why then you can't start to fix it.

Your goal is not to think winning or losing don't matter really, but to accept losing and strive for winning. To put love of the game far beyond fear where fear isn't a factor anymore, only excitement. It's very difficult and requires daily mental work but it can be done.


I put alot of external stress on myself is the underlying issue. I feel like if I dont JV5 my opponnent in a best of 3 or 5 set that its a failure and that im a failure. I try to play "perfect" when in reality I know thats not metaphorically possible at this point in time. I get really anxious when I play due to the fact that the venue is very loud and typically has 40-70 entrants every week. Its very offputting since im not very social myself, Now whats next is finding ways to fix that, right?
Sorry I dont know how the quote part of Smashboards works :(
Do you think it's reasonable to expect to jv5 everyone? Follow that train of thought for yourself if you can since it will be quite useful.

As for the noise, you can either bring headphones or you can practice getting used to the noise so it doesn't bother you. I would imagine people talking or cheering or something behind me when I practiced and I found it really useful.
 

Zorcey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
371
Oh you don't need measurements(though I do measure everything I can in Bowser rolls lmao). You just need to look at the approach tool that is fastest and longest, and add in some extra distance for them running forward a little before initiating(since they can fake with DD you'd need extra space). So for Marth his threatening range is dash a little WD Dtilt(in most matchups). Sheik's is run dash attack/boost grab. You get the idea. Fox's is really complicated so just keep playing with the base idea and use analysis/your own matches to see where the range(s) really is.
Alright, I think I understand this. (Have to ask tho, why the Bowser rolls lol? Does it really help you visualize?) Now is it correct to assume that when I'm outside, say, Marth's DD > WD > Dtilt range, Marth is incentivized to take space, and I can use that knowledge to predict his next decision? I want to try to apply the principles of threatening range more broadly, and use my spacing from my opponent as a means to decipher what they can/can't do/will try to do; for example if I'm in DD > WD > Dtilt range, but not DD > Rising Fair range, I can anticipate a dash/WD forward by Marth regardless of whether he's approaching or wants more space. Am I on the right track with this analysis?
 

Kotastic

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Playing friendlies with some people that were significantly better than me and asking advice came one big epiphany: Threatening Range. I knew what that term meant, but I never really truly knew what it entailed in terms of playing. After realizing the concept in friendlies and how I can play around it, I'm almost certain that this is how I can "get good" (in terms of neutral game anyways).

Surely PP, you must've played around this concept when shadowboxing, playing certain situations like TR and playing around what to do. My question is: how do you know your precision of the enemy's TR? What else do you shadowbox (if I'm getting the term right)? Tbh I'm not sure what specific questions I'm supposed to ask, so please tell me if I'm being too broad.

Additionally with my understanding of TR being deepened, I realized the big weakness of Marth: little lasting hitboxes. There's almost no reason to swing first unless the move is spaced and/or late aerial. In the Marth mirror, for what reason should you ever swing first without fearing of getting punished?

Your guidance for my deeper understanding of the game is greatly appreciated. <3
 

lokt

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
72
What options can beat fox using fadeback nair in neutral? i've found dtilt to be bad because they tend to jump again, and double fair to be pretty solid.
 
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Keebler

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
45
How do you break past plateaus? I feel like I've literally been at the same point relative to myself and my region for over a year now.

At times I feel like maybe I should pick a new character, but I don't know if I want to start over from square one with a new toolset. Going to locals actually just depresses me most of the time because I feel like I should be better, and then I see people who have been playing for 6 months or less keeping pace with me.
 
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Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,753
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What options can beat fox using fadeback nair in neutral? i've found dtilt to be bad because they tend to jump again, and double fair to be pretty solid.
I like rising fair or punishing their landing, for example with a grab, the most.

The rising fair is aimed at their current position and you have to commit to it before you register the nair. It is quite solid all around and also happens to beat that option.

If you aim for punishing the landing, you sometimes won't be in time to get a true whiffpunish (being able to recognize when you have a true whiffpunish an when not helps a lot), so it is important to outspace the shine that can follow afterwards. This is especially tricky if you use grab because it extends the hurtbox in the startup frames. Only go for punishing the landing if you are pretty close already, if you give the Fox more time they can up-tilt when you run in and convert from that.

There's almost no reason to swing first unless the move is spaced and/or late aerial. In the Marth mirror, for what reason should you ever swing first without fearing of getting punished?
There are some exceptions to this, like the overshot dash attack in neutral or crossup rising fair.
The problem about swinging first is usually that if they avoid it, you are in a bad spot, especially as Marth who doesn't have the toolset for quick uncommital anti-approaches that could get you out of this.
If you attack in such a way that they can't dash around it, you reduce that risk. There are obviously other risks but everything is a mixup after all.
 

Dr Peepee

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Alright, I think I understand this. (Have to ask tho, why the Bowser rolls lol? Does it really help you visualize?) Now is it correct to assume that when I'm outside, say, Marth's DD > WD > Dtilt range, Marth is incentivized to take space, and I can use that knowledge to predict his next decision? I want to try to apply the principles of threatening range more broadly, and use my spacing from my opponent as a means to decipher what they can/can't do/will try to do; for example if I'm in DD > WD > Dtilt range, but not DD > Rising Fair range, I can anticipate a dash/WD forward by Marth regardless of whether he's approaching or wants more space. Am I on the right track with this analysis?
I use Bowser rolls because Kirbykaze came up with it and used the shortest roll in the game to make distance easier to see. In reality the only things I found it was useful for is describing different dash lengths and lengths of stages. Still neat though lmao

I don't think me answering this question yes or no is correct. You're starting to make your own inferences and you'd gain a lot testing out the ideas and analyzing matches to see more. It's very testable I would think =p
Playing friendlies with some people that were significantly better than me and asking advice came one big epiphany: Threatening Range. I knew what that term meant, but I never really truly knew what it entailed in terms of playing. After realizing the concept in friendlies and how I can play around it, I'm almost certain that this is how I can "get good" (in terms of neutral game anyways).

Surely PP, you must've played around this concept when shadowboxing, playing certain situations like TR and playing around what to do. My question is: how do you know your precision of the enemy's TR? What else do you shadowbox (if I'm getting the term right)? Tbh I'm not sure what specific questions I'm supposed to ask, so please tell me if I'm being too broad.

Additionally with my understanding of TR being deepened, I realized the big weakness of Marth: little lasting hitboxes. There's almost no reason to swing first unless the move is spaced and/or late aerial. In the Marth mirror, for what reason should you ever swing first without fearing of getting punished?

Your guidance for my deeper understanding of the game is greatly appreciated. <3
You can always theorize your opponent's range and then test it with a partner if you're unsure if it's a reactable space or not. And you have it a bit backwards, I only did TR shadowboxing after I did analysis and testing in matches and supplementary practice to confirm that the TR was correct. If you practice for the wrong range you don't learn anything. Once you know the range(s) though, you can really start playing around with it in training and learn/theorize many new things.

Yep the little lasting hitboxes is a major problem for Marth. This is why his precision and knowledge of conditioning is so vital. If your understanding is weak anywhere you can look like a noob pretty easily as Marth. That doesn't mean you can't swing first or even swing early, but if it's a rising Fair you better be sure you got your positioning and conditioning right. For example, on Fox I can run up rising Fair if I'm about positive he will be in position but don't know if it will hit or he will block. Even if he CCs it's pretty unlikely he will punish due to his range, me starting to fadeback, and the second Fair that can come out. While he does have a real punish there, since he has to react I wouldn't consider it super likely. To encourage Fox to not CC and instead jump/shield when I get close I can always Dtilt him a couple times here and there. Then Fair becomes hitting a jump vs hitting a shield and that is really nice for Marth. In this way, you can manipulate your opponent and mitigate the lasting hitbox problem. Only if you really understand the character and approaching though.
What options can beat fox using fadeback nair in neutral? i've found dtilt to be bad because they tend to jump again, and double fair to be pretty solid.
FH or SH Nair?

How do you break past plateaus? I feel like I've literally been at the same point relative to myself and my region for over a year now.

At times I feel like maybe I should pick a new character, but I don't know if I want to start over from square one with a new toolset. Going to locals actually just depresses me most of the time because I feel like I should be better, and then I see people who have been playing for 6 months or less keeping pace with me.
It's time to change your thinking. Return to basics of thinking, practice daily. Find new angles on the game and work on analysis daily or as much as possible. You can figure it out.
 

Kopaka

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
268
Location
San Diego
Dr. Peepee Said:
Why were you more anxious/scared than normal? Did you carry outside stress with you? Have you been taking worse care of your body with you? Have you been talking to others who get really anxious when they play? If you don't know why then you can't start to fix it.

Your goal is not to think winning or losing don't matter really, but to accept losing and strive for winning. To put love of the game far beyond fear where fear isn't a factor anymore, only excitement. It's very difficult and requires daily mental work but it can be done.


I put alot of external stress on myself is the underlying issue. I feel like if I dont JV5 my opponnent in a best of 3 or 5 set that its a failure and that im a failure. I try to play "perfect" when in reality I know thats not metaphorically possible at this point in time. I get really anxious when I play due to the fact that the venue is very loud and typically has 40-70 entrants every week. Its very offputting since im not very social myself, Now whats next is finding ways to fix that, right?
Sorry I dont know how the quote part of Smashboards works :(
@Ordrint gonna add my two cents since these two posts speak to me deeply, and the post that you wrote about going 0-2.

I do believe we should be seriously taking into account how important the mental practice that has been discussed here, really is. The two locals that I have just recently attended right after Evo were actually very scary for me! Even after I had this near-upset on Chillindude. The mental vigilance must be practiced, because fear happened to me even after I had that set. It definitely was having a negative effect on my play. Only now, when I have returned to practicing and analyzing, and returning to basics in practice, which is what I used to do months prior to evo, have I felt better. All I've done is just return to what it was that I was doing, that was personally working for me. I had to realize "Okay, even after that set, there are very clear things that I need to work on that have been said to me by my peers many times, so I must focus on those right now". Returning to simple practice, which has always helped me feel better in tournament, personally.

I only just started to test this out, but when I engage my mind with simple matchup 'rules' or reminders in tournament, I tend to not notice less anxiety and notice more important match related stuff, and I slow down a bit, which in return makes me a bit more effective. It also helps me notice my blindspots, and that mistakes I've been making are not nearly as tremendously mentality-wrecking as they were before.

Also stepping away from the process itself for a bit has been nice =)

I do love playing on the huge stage, hearing the amplified game sounds and crowds cheering (for or against me!) during a set so I like to practice imagining that when I play too. That is just my north star, it's likely different for everyone.
 
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Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Oh you mean the dash in pullback Nair. You can Fair/Fsmash/maybe Ftilt it/mayyybe Nair it? Also you can dash/WD Dtilt the landing and grab if you read it. Most of the time though you're just going to try and fight what comes after the Nair since it's really hard to tell if it'll be full Nair in or pullback.
 

Nohbl

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
357
Location
Chicago, Illinois
How do you break past plateaus?
Try pretending to be a different person playing your character. You have a unique style developed, and maybe understand or maybe don't know yet what that style is--how to describe it in depth to other people if asked.

Well, try and analyze how someone else, notable or not, plays your same character, and figure out what their style is, and try and mimic that style of play. And maybe do this a couple of times. You can even just pretend to be this fictional main who has some style you come up with yourself that is different from your own. The point of the exercise is to discover what others do differently than you do, better or not than your playstyle, that will give you perspective on your own style and hopefully moreso provide you with ideas to modify your own game.

I did that myself as a Falco player pretending to be a Peach/Marth dual main and realized I wasn't playing as carefully as I should have been, for example.
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Apr 11, 2013
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Greensboro, NC
I have some question about the Falcon matchup.

I'm having trouble edgeguarding Falcon when he is recovering really high with Up-B. I've tried going up there with him to fair but he either gets too high to do that or he fades back enough to grab ledge. I tried to be on the ground near the edge and chase him there, but then it would be really easy for him to fake me out with fades or landing on stage where I have to hit him in the opposite direction of the ledge. How do you approach edgeguaring a Falcon when he goes really high? I'm pretty sure this is almost entirely reactable.

Secondly, I tried on multiple occasions to up-tilt Falcon through a platform, but I end up getting daired for it. Isn't Marth's up-tilt more disjointed than Falcon's dair? Could I be timing it slightly wrong? Or is it better to do something else?
 

Kotastic

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I have some question about the Falcon matchup.

I'm having trouble edgeguarding Falcon when he is recovering really high with Up-B. I've tried going up there with him to fair but he either gets too high to do that or he fades back enough to grab ledge. I tried to be on the ground near the edge and chase him there, but then it would be really easy for him to fake me out with fades or landing on stage where I have to hit him in the opposite direction of the ledge. How do you approach edgeguaring a Falcon when he goes really high? I'm pretty sure this is almost entirely reactable.

Secondly, I tried on multiple occasions to up-tilt Falcon through a platform, but I end up getting daired for it. Isn't Marth's up-tilt more disjointed than Falcon's dair? Could I be timing it slightly wrong? Or is it better to do something else?
Falcon is at a disadvantage when he lands on stage because of his landing lag, so that should be your primary focus to punish unless he's adept in platform canceling. You can do multiple option coverage such as d-tilt ledge --> f-smash the other way or something depending on the height. You also want to call out his Falcon Kick when he has enough height with an aerial or dolphin slash or something.

While technically correct, you also have to take into account that Falcon is faster than you to make up the lack of disjoint. Generally it's a better idea to keep moving rather than stay in place. Instead of up-tilting in place, you could move away aerial to punish the dair.
 

Dr Peepee

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I just sh and follow falcon with my drift then hit him right before he lands. His momentum coming into me combined with weak hit moves can give me Fsmash or at least another aerial even at high percents. If he's really close to the level just push him up and back out until you can do the first thing. It's just something to practice.
 

Timtheguy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5
Hey, have a question about Fox MU and a question in general.

First up is the Fox question. Against Fox in neutral I find myself whiffing a lot against foxes that spotdodge after landing or doing a laggy move. I end up missing my punish (usually a grab) and getting punished in turn. Is it a problem of me not being quick enough or bad move selection? Should I wait and try to bait out the spotdodge (which may lead to them doing another spotdodge) or is there a better constant hitbox that covers spotdodge? Please let me know.

A quicker question about observing your opponent. Often I find myself watching my own character instead of my opponents. Is this an unhealthy habit that I should by trying to break? I've never really thought about it except after hearing m2k say that he only recently learned that you are supposed to watch the other character.
 

Dr Peepee

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You might be too far away or you might be reacting too late/doing too much movement/not knowing how you influence the opponent when missing the grab. Also depends on how they whiff before spotdodging. Do they full Nair into you? If so you just need to be faster and practice it. Do they retreating aerial then spotdodge? If so you probably can't grab that anyway so just wait out the spotdodge or whatever comes after the retreating aerial.

And eventually you want to watch the opponent's character or the space between the two. It gets easier after practicing so you know exactly where you're going.
 

Blatant J

Smash Cadet
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Jan 13, 2013
Messages
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What did you think of m2k vs leffen at evo? Also do you think leffen is overreacting when it comes to how the MU is for fox? I don't see how Marth can have better recovery than fox.
 

Dr Peepee

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Leffen looked shakier than usual and M2K came in exploiting Leffen's lack of knowledge in the matchup. Also no I certainly do not think Marth has a better recovery than Fox, especially not in that particular matchup. While I admit I am no expert on the matchup from Fox's side, I know how it feels to really be challenged in certain ways as Marth and I know Leffen does not ever do those things really outside of punish. So yes I do think he is overreacting but maybe he will break down his opinion later and I can understand more.
 

Chesstiger2612

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Dr Peepee Dr Peepee
Any tips on mid-match adaptation / learning while playing? Making a decision about the current situation and learning from the previous interactions feel like very complicated multi-tasking together. Improvement in terms of strategy and knowledge also tends to happen more in match analysis, although any practice is obviously good for making fast decisions.
I tried to shift my attention somewhat to look at my opponent's patterns, but it led to much autopiloting, so I'm not sure if that's too helpful either.
 

Dr Peepee

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You're going to be doing the vast majority of your improving in practice and analysis/theorizing, which is why I tell people to focus on that more instead of just playing. You can see more when you play if you're not focused on tech, have good setups to help you gain info, and understand the game better to allow it to feed you info automatically. The only thing you could do to maybe learn more while playing is to not fear being hit/losing. Getting rid of that fear opens you up to more honestly see things and could help you learn more while playing. Still not as good as solo work though.

Edit: You can play to learn in friendlies more and that gets you closer to usefulness, but even then you'll need to know what to work on to learn, and that is informed by practice/analysis so it all works together regardless of your position.
 
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ElectricBlade

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Recently I revised the section in my notebook about self analysis and improvement into more specific categories. Which are...

-General gameplay weaknesses
-Tech skill/reaction weaknesses
-Mental game weaknesses
-Real life things I could improve to make my mental game better.

I feel like these are too general. How would you recommend I break it down?
 

Dr Peepee

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Eh those aren't necessarily bad, just starting categories. You can further break each category down to really get to what you want. So for gameplay you may write "don't know how to beat Fox pullback drill" and other stuff and for mental game you may write "chokes leads when ahead in tourney." It's a workable set of divisions you have there imo
 

ChivalRuse

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Speaking of subdivisions (hopefully still staying remotely on topic), I'm trying to put together a paradigm of the distinct "virtues", if you will, that contribute to a player's success, in and out of the game. I've postured out a crude model so far. I was wondering if you could provide input to improve on it - or perhaps deconstruct further?

Game sense (natural ability - affecting situational awareness, and skill at counterplay etc)

Game knowledge (insight about how interactions will play out)

Technical skill (execution)

Psychological perceptiveness (capacity to understand opponent's play and justify it)

Cognitive Resilience (ability to find solutions to situations presented by the data that is acknowledged as important, a process that would be informed by one's psychological perception and game sense)

Focus (how well one harnesses one's capacity under pressure or otherwise unfavorable conditions)
 
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Dr Peepee

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Seems kind of hard to follow and there's a lot of overlap that also makes this difficult. For instance, how exactly are cognitive resilience and focus separate? They seem similar to how I understand it. Can you give some examples for subdivisions of these categories to help me understand it better?
 

ConMac14

Smash Rookie
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Feb 2, 2015
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Massachusetts
Hi PP,

Today I entered my local and lost my first set in winners against a Falcon in a very close set, it was last stock last hit, game three. Following that, I was upset and annoyed with myself with deviating from my gameplan. However, I usually have a fairly positive outlook on the game, but in losers, I felt like I just wanted to stop playing the game. I'd never had these thoughts midset before, and was wondering if there was any specific advice you can give on mental composure and how to take a loss well.
 

ChivalRuse

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Seems kind of hard to follow and there's a lot of overlap that also makes this difficult. For instance, how exactly are cognitive resilience and focus separate? They seem similar to how I understand it. Can you give some examples for subdivisions of these categories to help me understand it better?
Game sense: one's level of intuitive "theorycraft" (achievable without frame data - i.e., Mang0) on how the opponent and oneself is going to try to reach objectives (winning neutral, comboing, edgeguarding, landing killing blows). This is a recognition level, as you have a good hunch that the opponent is going to spam f-tilt with Sheik or abuse crouch cancel with Peach, because those are innately "good" tactics, at least at a certain skill level, but you may not necessarily know how to counter those strategies.

Game knowledge: this is mostly going to be one's collection of frame data and understanding of micro-interactions. For example, knowing percentages when ASDI down works. Knowing at what percent u-throw pivot tipper works. Knowing what launch trajectories will cause one to slide off a platform. Knowing when one can escape from a chain grab.

Technical skill: The most self-explanatory subdivision. How well-versed one is at difficult techniques, like shield dropping, smash DI, double stick teching, etc.

Psychological perceptiveness: one's ability to read the opponent's psyche. When the opponent does an action, you recognize the to a certain degree the train of thought that led them to choose that option. The better you recognize the opponent's thought process, the better you will be able to predict based on patterns how they will respond in certain situations. For example, the enemy Marth may always d-tilt followed by either another d-tilt or f-smash. You reason that the f-smash is to cover you jumping over d-tilt and to protect themselves. As for whether you can come up with effective counterplay to their strategy ... that is another matter.

Cognitive Resilience: knowing what are good options for the opponent, or even predicting what they will do, are all good and well. But can you "adapt" perfectly? Obviously, there is no such thing as perfect adaptation, because both players are constantly adjusting to one another's adjustments that are made incrementally (or sometimes with noticeably more acceleration). One's refinement of the craft of problem-solving is what is most notable about the category of "cognitive resilience". A generation of cockroaches is faced with the problem of poisons that threaten to wipe them out; so they change their bodies chemically and biologically to be able to withstand that poison. Some other insects may be less adept at making the necessary genetic mutations to survive, and they will ultimately succumb to Raid or whatever other toxins are being employed to eradicate them. Armada mentioned in one of his streams the effectiveness of overshooting attacks, particularly to challenge a dash-dance heavy style. I believe he showed a video of himself vs you at Evo 2015 where he overshot dash attacks as an answer to dash back. Now part of this may have been his preparation, not necessarily adjustments he made on the fly. But I think it serves as a fair illustration.

Focus: one's proficiency in applying precise amounts of mental effort into their game presence, while also staying situationally aware, keeping track of the opponent's activities, and remaining composed, simultaneously. An example of lacking focus would be Luigikid's set against Shroomed, where he forfeited because his out-of-game health was hindering him from focusing.
 

Dr Peepee

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Hi PP,

Today I entered my local and lost my first set in winners against a Falcon in a very close set, it was last stock last hit, game three. Following that, I was upset and annoyed with myself with deviating from my gameplan. However, I usually have a fairly positive outlook on the game, but in losers, I felt like I just wanted to stop playing the game. I'd never had these thoughts midset before, and was wondering if there was any specific advice you can give on mental composure and how to take a loss well.
This was a good experience for you. You learned more about your weaknesses and how difficult tournament can be. Why do you think you were so hard on yourself? Do you think you'll be unable to stay on your gameplan? If you think you can handle it, then you just need to figure out why you messed up and fix it. It also really does help to accept that sometimes you'll mess up. That paradoxically makes it less likely you'll mess up.

Game sense: one's level of intuitive "theorycraft" (achievable without frame data - i.e., Mang0) on how the opponent and oneself is going to try to reach objectives (winning neutral, comboing, edgeguarding, landing killing blows). This is a recognition level, as you have a good hunch that the opponent is going to spam f-tilt with Sheik or abuse crouch cancel with Peach, because those are innately "good" tactics, at least at a certain skill level, but you may not necessarily know how to counter those strategies.

Game knowledge: this is mostly going to be one's collection of frame data and understanding of micro-interactions. For example, knowing percentages when ASDI down works. Knowing at what percent u-throw pivot tipper works. Knowing what launch trajectories will cause one to slide off a platform. Knowing when one can escape from a chain grab.

Technical skill: The most self-explanatory subdivision. How well-versed one is at difficult techniques, like shield dropping, smash DI, double stick teching, etc.

Psychological perceptiveness: one's ability to read the opponent's psyche. When the opponent does an action, you recognize the to a certain degree the train of thought that led them to choose that option. The better you recognize the opponent's thought process, the better you will be able to predict based on patterns how they will respond in certain situations. For example, the enemy Marth may always d-tilt followed by either another d-tilt or f-smash. You reason that the f-smash is to cover you jumping over d-tilt and to protect themselves. As for whether you can come up with effective counterplay to their strategy ... that is another matter.

Cognitive Resilience: knowing what are good options for the opponent, or even predicting what they will do, are all good and well. But can you "adapt" perfectly? Obviously, there is no such thing as perfect adaptation, because both players are constantly adjusting to one another's adjustments that are made incrementally (or sometimes with noticeably more acceleration). One's refinement of the craft of problem-solving is what is most notable about the category of "cognitive resilience". A generation of cockroaches is faced with the problem of poisons that threaten to wipe them out; so they change their bodies chemically and biologically to be able to withstand that poison. Some other insects may be less adept at making the necessary genetic mutations to survive, and they will ultimately succumb to Raid or whatever other toxins are being employed to eradicate them. Armada mentioned in one of his streams the effectiveness of overshooting attacks, particularly to challenge a dash-dance heavy style. I believe he showed a video of himself vs you at Evo 2015 where he overshot dash attacks as an answer to dash back. Now part of this may have been his preparation, not necessarily adjustments he made on the fly. But I think it serves as a fair illustration.

Focus: one's proficiency in applying precise amounts of mental effort into their game presence, while also staying situationally aware, keeping track of the opponent's activities, and remaining composed, simultaneously. An example of lacking focus would be Luigikid's set against Shroomed, where he forfeited because his out-of-game health was hindering him from focusing.
How does one build game sense? Is it just from learning the fundamentals of the game? If so, wouldn't this be where the majority of improvement comes from, as it feeds into the others most heavily? It feeds especially hard into the psychological perceptiveness, and I'd argue it's influence only truly comes out as you make significant progress in your game.

Couldn't cognitive resilience, by that definition, just be psychological and game sense application?

Rest seems alright
 

ElectricBlade

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There's this certain thing that has been putting me on tilt lately and I wanted to somehow address it. Basically, I get very upset with myself when I feel like I could be playing better, very often is has to do with my attention...I have a hard time focusing on a match at times and it makes me more frustrated that I can't then it just kinda gets worse from there.

So a few questions about that...
1) How do I try and prepare myself for more peak performances in the future?
2) Once I'm on tilt I don't necessarily know how to stop it.
 
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ConMac14

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This was a good experience for you. You learned more about your weaknesses and how difficult tournament can be. Why do you think you were so hard on yourself? Do you think you'll be unable to stay on your gameplan? If you think you can handle it, then you just need to figure out why you messed up and fix it. It also really does help to accept that sometimes you'll mess up. That paradoxically makes it less likely you'll mess up.
I think the reason why I was so upset was because I knew the person who beat me, and I really did not want to lose to them. I was also just frustrated because I deviated from my gameplan last stock and wasn't able to keep myself composed. For me, I think building a stronger game plan and familiarizing myself with the match up more will help a lot.

To ask another question: How do you feel about FD as a starting stage vs. Falcon?
 
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Dr Peepee

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There's this certain thing that has been putting me on tilt lately and I wanted to somehow address it. Basically, I get very upset with myself when I feel like I could be playing better, very often is has to do with my attention...I have a hard time focusing on a match at times and it makes me more frustrated that I can't then it just kinda gets worse from there.

So a few questions about that...
1) How do I try and prepare myself for more peak performances in the future?
2) Once I'm on tilt I don't necessarily know how to stop it.
1. Train hard daily, mentally physically and in game to perform well. If you don't do that, as well as visualize playing well and pushing yourself to do it, then all the training will be worthless.

2. If you're not prepared it's not easy to pull back. Between stocks best you can do is take a deep breath, remember what's important in the match, and dive back in. In between games you can do the same but also change your thinking by considering the opportunities this provides and how you will overcome the challenge, and it will be exciting.

I think the reason why I was so upset was because I knew the person who beat me, and I really did not want to lose to them. I was also just frustrated because I deviated from my gameplan last stock and wasn't able to keep myself composed. For me, I think building a stronger game plan and familiarizing myself with the match up more will help a lot.

To ask another question: How do you feel about FD as a starting stage vs. Falcon?
Look at how you phrased that: you did not want to lose. Had you just wanted to win vs this person badly, you would have been pulled toward the outcome automatically instead of having to push yourself and strain to keep the desire.

I'd pick YS/FoD/probly BF over FD. FD falcon gets easier punishes and him having more room to DD means it'll be harder to just push him back and corner him. However if you can tech chase and punish well and struggle more with platform punishes plus you don't mind DD'ing him back a lot then it can be an alright starting pick.
 

Kopaka

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Dr Peepee Dr Peepee

Not sure whether to ask you here, twitter, or in a pm cause this question is kind of off topic but guided meditations or non guided meditations? I've been playing around with both.

As for Melee, I really like the idea of simplicity. Could you give a bit of insight into how you worked to understand it? For me so far it's ended up in analyzing a few sets of mine and writing down a lot of words than I'd like to admit just to get to the point of what it is I want to be doing instead of frantically pressing buttons. I've been doing in-game practice in this way as well, doing very specific actions with a goal in mind and changing it up every now and then. I've got a way more clear cut definition of what it is I want. Anytime I visualize how I play my best it's always doing things so simply effectively and clearly. I've done it in practice and it feels amazing lol. I think the goal now is just proving to myself that I can do it in tournament.
 
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Dr Peepee

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I don't like guided meditations at all. The only time I found it useful was when I was very depressed and had a very difficult time controlling my thoughts.

Well it seems you're on the path to bring more simplicity to your play. There were a few realizations I had that might be useful:

-excess movement is from a lack of focus/discipline/game knowledge

-spending lots of time working on individual movements, understanding positions, and your actual attacks will help you give intent to each movement so you don't need to compensate by moving a lot

-in practice, it follows like tech skill practice. you start slow then build speed until it's fast but feels very manageable. same is with simplicity.
 

Kopaka

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Thanks for the response :D

Alright. Okay, at this point it could not be more clear to me what it is I need to work on since you and a couple other peers have all said very similar things about my play to me. Guess it's just a matter of practice and time then :p
 

ChivalRuse

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This was a good experience for you. You learned more about your weaknesses and how difficult tournament can be. Why do you think you were so hard on yourself? Do you think you'll be unable to stay on your gameplan? If you think you can handle it, then you just need to figure out why you messed up and fix it. It also really does help to accept that sometimes you'll mess up. That paradoxically makes it less likely you'll mess up.



How does one build game sense? Is it just from learning the fundamentals of the game? If so, wouldn't this be where the majority of improvement comes from, as it feeds into the others most heavily? It feeds especially hard into the psychological perceptiveness, and I'd argue it's influence only truly comes out as you make significant progress in your game.

Couldn't cognitive resilience, by that definition, just be psychological and game sense application?

Rest seems alright
There are other ingredients needed for cognitive resilience to take effect, so I suppose I should have included these components in my definition as well:

Cognitive resilience also requires intimate game knowledge in order to verify that you have successfully formulated a solution. For example, knowing how many frames of advantage Peach's dsmash has on shield (and accounting for the amount of ticks that connect with your shield). Can you wavedash out of shield and grab, or do you need to conserve frames more and go for a f-air out of shield? How does lightshielding interact with Peach's dsmash?

Beyond mere frame data, knowing the range of hitboxes and being able to readily map vectors internally that allow for your plan to be spatially workable.

Personally, I did not want to categorize cognitive resilience as a mere advancement of psychological perception and game sense because cognitive resilience feels so very specialized - it lives in analytics and an extensive web of conditional statements. Clauses such as "I can dash forward to threaten d-tilt but if he full jumps over it as he has done historically, I need to be prepared to react with short hop uair out of dash". Naturally, such a process of systematic rationalization gets connected in a range of ways for players whose parameterization will differ based on each person's unique approach to the game, which will obviously yield varying levels of success. So I think that it is a skill that can be cultivated separately.
 

Zorcey

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Well it seems you're on the path to bring more simplicity to your play. There were a few realizations I had that might be useful:

-excess movement is from a lack of focus/discipline/game knowledge

-spending lots of time working on individual movements, understanding positions, and your actual attacks will help you give intent to each movement so you don't need to compensate by moving a lot

-in practice, it follows like tech skill practice. you start slow then build speed until it's fast but feels very manageable. same is with simplicity.
Would you say a good way to understand the concept of simplicity in Melee is something like "quality over quantity"? That makes a lot of sense to me, and would indicate the best way to practice is to take just a few basic tools and look at them really deeply. This is something I've been trying to do, and it's really deepened my understanding of Marth even when I haven't gone as nearly as far in as I know I could yet.

Something I've been struggling with has to do with this. I think it's some issue in my game sense? I often misspace or mistime moves so slightly that I get this "that should have worked" feeling where it wasn't that I necessarily did the wrong thing, but I did it at the wrong time/spacing; it costs me a lot of margin when it happens several times per game, and it demoralizes me more than I'd like to admit (something else I need to work on). I'm not quite sure how to approach it though, because I think the "why"s kind of vary. Sometimes I think it's because I'm hesitating, other times because I misjudged a distance, or thought I had a bigger frame advantage than I really did. It also happens in such variable situations that it doesn't seem feasible to recreate them all in 20xx and spam responses.

What I'm trying to get at is if you think just deepening my understanding of all my moves will address this problem by improving my confidence/reaction time/awareness, or if it's something to be improved by noting and drilling situations that give me trouble? Do you think my problem might have something to do with overcomplicating my play and committing myself to useless moves/movement?
 
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