Captain Falcon's Knee

[Space Stranger]

While the landing lag might be a problem for continuous knees, I'm just glad its been buffed.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Knee frame data from Brawl


F-air

• Start-up 1-13
• Hit-on 14-31 Sweetspot is Frame 14, flubbox on 15-31 has a 30% trip rate.
• Cool-down 32-40
• IASA 40
• Autocancel 1-6, 35+
• Landing Lag 22
• AC Block Advantage -25
• LC Block Advantage -26
• Animation Duration 46
• Landing Animation Duration 31

Just for reference. Maybe it can be auto cancelled like in Brawl. Of course, I would be ok even if it wasn't since his ground game is going to be very good.

 

[Gawain]

I think the fact that the damage and knockout potential in general is so much higher makes up for the lag. As long as he can combo into it, which he can from what I've heard. Though I'll certainly miss the multi-knee combos if those are out.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Weak Knee>Knee may still be a thing. It was in Brawl.

Maybe the troll combo will come back . Weak Knee>Weak Knee>Falcon Dive.

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, as long as it is a decent KO option, it is already better than it was in Brawl. So I have no complaints and I always felt as though it should be a more skill based move anyways. It was far too easy to spam effectively in Melee.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

That game that Falcon did his Knee in wasn't a demo copy unfortunately. It's not that the game wasn't out yet, but by the time the landing lag finished on his Knee the game came out.

 

[Weeman]

Honestly, as long as it is a decent KO option, it is already better than it was in Brawl. So I have no complaints and I always felt as though it should be a more skill based move anyways. It was far too easy to spam effectively in Melee.

I really agree with this, especially because his other aerials, such as his Bair, Uair and his Nair have very little lag, so those are much more suited for combos while the Knee will be a more satisfying finisher that is, of course, harder to pull off.

 

[TheDiddler]

I really agree with this, especially because his other aerials, such as his Bair, Uair and his Nair have very little lag, so those are much more suited for combos while the Knee will be a more satisfying finisher that is, of course, harder to pull off.

Yup, can't wait to use the Knee of Justice for that amazing moment.

 

[ChickenWing13]

I said this before and I'll say it again. Falcon's knee should be a shield breaker when sweetspotted.

And they better increase the hitbox to how it was in melee or better yet make it as big as Snake's Utilt and call it an accident.

 

[DJ Dong]

It looked like dash attack might actually combo into Knee. I'm not sure about that though, it depends on a bit. It will probably work on some characters. Jab might too.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

[quote="ChickenWing13, post: 17506340, member: 172145"]I said this before and I'll say it again. Falcon's knee should be a shield breaker when sweetspotted.

And they better increase the hitbox to how it was in melee or better yet make it as big as Snake's Utilt and call it an accident.[/quote]

Considering how fast Falcon is, I don't think this is a good idea.

Even with the end lag he gets when he wiffs it.

 

[Black Mantis]

 

[SmashWolf]

Oooo, that's sexy. With this game's new bouncing physics(We can do that while our opponent is in the air now!), that might actually be a legit Falcon combo. I love it.

 

[Ravestickman]

Oh yes the fabled Knee of Justice. such power.

Much Falcon. Wow.

 

[Ravestickman]

This is absolutely beautiful.

 

[Code Bread]

Much talking has been done about Falcon's knee, but does anyone actually have info from a streamer on Falcon's knee buffs?

 

[Ravestickman]

Much talking has been done about Falcon's knee, but does anyone actually have info from a streamer on Falcon's knee buffs?

NOT IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW, FALCON'S KNEE IS CHAMPION! Lol, jk, yea, if it's better than alright

 

[Code Bread]

That didn't really answer my question but I'll just go ahead and say YEAH I TOTALLY AGREE.

 

[Ravestickman]

That didn't really answer my question but I'll just go ahead and say YEAH I TOTALLY AGREE.

Sorry lol. I have heard the landing lag on the knee has been increased but it comes out a bit quicker? I haven't seen anyone using it in streams quite yet ((I am watching one now, no one's using )) But as soon as I get some solid info I'll post!

 

[Code Bread]

Sorry lol. I have heard the landing lag on the knee has been increased but it comes out a bit quicker? I haven't seen anyone using it in streams quite yet ((I am watching one now, no one's using )) But as soon as I get some solid info I'll post!

Don't be sorry dude I was joking.

 

[Blazing Ambition]

I still hope up-air to knee has been carried over from melee.. Nair-to-knee seems more plausible, considering the nair has virtually NO LAG in smash 4.

 

[Gawain]

I still hope up-air to knee has been carried over from melee.. Nair-to-knee seems more plausible, considering the nair has virtually NO LAG in smash 4.

I heard that M2K said that he had confirmed uair into Knee.

 

[Blazing Ambition]

 

[C-SAF]

With all the lag after the knee, I guess that makes the "sacred combo" even more of a rarity?

 

[Dragoomba]

With all the lag after the knee, I guess that makes the "sacred combo" even more of a rarity?

More like impossible. Nothing is going to combo into Falcon Punch in this game.

 

[Deleted member]

Much Falcon. Wow.

no

 

[Dr.Peace]

As said before the knee seems to have a highly increased landing lag of course but something new is also how centered the hitbox to the knee is. It seems to be MUCH smaller and more precision based than before. Because of this people are going to have to be careful about when they decide to unleash the knee and time it juuuust right.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

As said before the knee seems to have a highly increased landing lag of course but something new is also how centered the hitbox to the knee is. It seems to be MUCH smaller and more precision based than before. Because of this people are going to have to be careful about when they decide to unleash the knee and time it juuuust right.

The hitbox is definitely a tad easier to hit with than it was in Brawl where the knee had already seen its huge nerf, the days of kneeing people frantically have been gone for a long time, at least now it's more reliable.

 

[Knee Against the World]

Blech, the Fair looks practically useless again. Why go for such a risky and hard to land option when you can confirm Upair strings so easily or even a Bair? This move still seems too nerfed.

 

[Snakeyes]

Blech, the Fair looks practically useless again. Why go for such a risky and hard to land option when you can confirm Upair strings so easily or even a Bair? This move still seems too nerfed.

Yeah, it's a pretty stupid nerf. Either keep the knee's lag as is but increase the hitbox to compensate or reduce the lag altogether. Same goes for the stomp - there's very little incentive to go for hard reads with the move because of its lag. Falcon doesn't seem like a bad character but he has a few shortcomings that prevent him from playing his game effectively.

Marth's aerials also got shafted for no reason at all.

 

[GenericSonicFanName]

As long as its an upgrade from Brawl's I'll take it. I gave up on Knee> Falcon Punch long ago

 

[meleebrawler]

Yeah, it's a pretty stupid nerf. Either keep the knee's lag as is but increase the hitbox to compensate or reduce the lag altogether. Same goes for the stomp - there's very little incentive to go for hard reads with the move because of its lag. Falcon doesn't seem like a bad character but he has a few shortcomings that prevent him from playing his game effectively.

Marth's aerials also got shafted for no reason at all.

You ever stop to think that maybe Falcon's knee was only quick on landing in Melee because of L-cancelling?
If people could use a near lagless aerial killing move on grounded opponents, they would do it all the time.

And I'm sure some people were annoyed by Marth's Fair camping in Brawl.

 

[Dr.Peace]

I look at it almost as they add realism to it.
-Making the hit box smaller to make the reality of it's hard to hit someone with a flying knee attack
-Making the lag at the landing longer because after trying to knee someone in the face your gonna need a second to get ready to keep fighting.
-Up the damage to make it realistic because if you get hit by a flying knee to the face IT'S GONNA HURT.

 

[Snakeyes]

You ever stop to think that maybe Falcon's knee was only quick on landing in Melee because of L-cancelling?
If people could use a near lagless aerial killing move on grounded opponents, they would do it all the time.

And I'm sure some people were annoyed by Marth's Fair camping in Brawl.

Actually, it wasn't. A non-canceled knee lasts for 19 frames in Melee and 22 in Brawl. In this game, it has a whopping 33 frames of landing lag, which is a pretty significant increase. The move should be safe enough to be useful in more than two situations (easy punish and combo finisher) without being brainless like an L-canceled Melee knee.

 

[Ravestickman]

That game that Falcon did his Knee in wasn't a demo copy unfortunately. It's not that the game wasn't out yet, but by the time the landing lag finished on his Knee the game came out.

I like this. Because the landing lag is terrible in the new game.

 

[KSabot]

Hope you guys love getting thrown out of shield >_>

 

[Snakeyes]

Shields are way too strong in this game.

 

[meleebrawler]

This is starting to turn into the "Let's complain about things that punish attacks" thread.

 

[Gawain]

The knee is incredible in this game. It's not quite melee good, but in the context of this game its VERY good. You can dthrow into knee for true, registered combos on almost everyone in the cast at around 65-80 percent. I crush ZSS players with it, its very reliable as a kill move. You just can't throw them out as an approach now. Dthrow into knee works, uair into knee works, in certain situations stomp to knee does the trick.

 

[Knee Against the World]

Yea the landing lag is pretty insane in the latest installment. What Sakurai seems to basically be saying is absolutely no fishing for knees anymore. Any situation in which you previously would is now a substantially worse option that will yield better results with a Bair instead. Only Knee in certain combos on certain characters at certain percents basically. I definitely think Falcon is a good character in this installment, but the knee really needs more incentive to make it a more viable move in my opinion. Same goes for the Dair. Who on earth thought making Dair punishable on hit at low percentages was a good idea.

The knee is incredible in this game. It's not quite melee good, but in the context of this game its VERY good. You can dthrow into knee for true, registered combos on almost everyone in the cast at around 65-80 percent. I crush ZSS players with it, its very reliable as a kill move. You just can't throw them out as an approach now. Dthrow into knee works, uair into knee works, in certain situations stomp to knee does the trick.

Have you gone to training mode and confirmed this as a combo on almost everyone in the cast? I've tried it on plenty, and often, though it looks like a perfect combo, the combo counter won't reach 2. This includes ZSS at 75%