Captain Falcon Social Thread

[-Fatality-]

I've decided to sole-main falcon in P:M and smash 4. I mained falco/falcon in melee for a couple of years and P:M falcon is just WAYYY more fun. To the point that I don't use falcon in melee anymore.

@ -Fatality- do you use footstools often? any ideas about how footstools can be used efficiently? I've done footstool -> falcon punch offstage. it was kind of awesome.

I use footstools very often, here are some of my main uses for them.
Footstooling characters with bad vertical recoveries offstage is a very powerful gimping tool, especially since unlike Dair, it can't be meteor canceled, is frame-1, and since you get a jump off of it, you typically have much more options following said Footstool than you would Dair.

You can use it mid-combo when above someone to put them on the ground when they don't expect it, and they likely won't tech, which leads to a free Dair bouncing them up for much more damage. Use it too much and they'll start teching it though, so be careful. When higher above the ground, you can use Footstool fast fall Dair to hit them right as the stun ends and initiate a tech chase in situations where nothing else is fast enough to guarantee that the combo will continue. Footstool fast fall Dair is also very powerful offstage against characters that don't fall very fast.

Footstool into Falcon kick is guaranteed if you're fast, and it gives you a fast way to beat shielding/CC'ing opponents from above, if they try to CC it, they get hit by the quake hitbox, if they don't, they won't be able to punish you except at very low percents.

I'd be happy to share more ideas and stuff if you'd like.

 

[RedGamer]

This is great! Keep it coming.

 

[-Fatality-]

3.5 is my favorite update so far. Debug mode is great, and all the other new things are neat too. But most importantly, they REALLY revised the balance of the game, in pretty much every conceivable way. Almost everyone got nerfs in some form or another, and they dramatically adjusted knockback/knockback growth on moves in such a way that so many combos aren't free anymore. They've really nerfed basically everything that was overly safe, removed pretty much everything that encouraged braindead strategies (Mario fireballs being an all-purpose option select, Mewtwo's tele-hover nairs), and they took an axe to almost every char's recovery options. Some people are upset that the game's power level got pushed a lot lower, but this build seems to be a lot more rewarding of fighting game fundamentals than the previous one, this will probably make the game a lot more hype to play and watch too. Link's new taunt that lets you play his ocarina is amazing, AND Falcon got a badass new running animation.

 

[ThreeSided]

--Players must now hold back after grounded side-b offstage to drift back and grab the ledge.

Is it just me or does this seem to be untrue? Every time I raptor boost off the edge I just grab it without having to hold any direction just like in the last version.

 

[JayMan-X]

Is it just me or does this seem to be untrue? Every time I raptor boost off the edge I just grab it without having to hold any direction just like in the last version.

Yea its actually more like you cannot be holding away from the ledge anymore. If you raptor boost right towards the right ledge and keep holding right, you will go flying off. If you return the stick to neutral, you'll be fine.

 

[SpiderMad]

Why was that change made, I usually let it go back to neutral after side-b anyways

 

[-Fatality-]

Why was that change made, I usually let it go back to neutral after side-b anyways

I think they're just designing the game in a way that just makes more sense in general, kinda like how everyone has a DACUS now.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Why was that change made, I usually let it go back to neutral after side-b anyways

It was because of universal engine changes to stuff like ledge grab boxes and landing detection. It wasn't changed for the sole purpose of making you have to press another input.

 

[BBOY15]

It's possible to land a falcon pownch on a fawx player who doesn't sweetspot the edge. You're welcome.

 

[Player -0]

You can Falcon Punch anybody that doesn't sweetspot...

 

[BananaBolts]

I think that the Falcon threads are the least frequented threads in PM. Either we need more recruits or we need to be more vocal. Helping each other out and being social is probably a positive thing.

 

[-Fatality-]

I think that the Falcon threads are the least frequented threads in PM. Either we need more recruits or we need to be more vocal. Helping each other out and being social is probably a positive thing.

It doesn't help that I'm the only top Falcon that frequents these boards either, boards tend to be a lot more active when lots of strong players regularly participate, share knowledge and ideas, and what have you.
It helps newer players find something good to work towards, and it helps the stronger players get more publicity.

 

[Scuba Steve]

To be honest, the Melee Falcon boards are probably one of the best resources for a PM Falcon main. Falcon is relatively unchanged and all the advice and knowledge from Melee carries over very well.

 

[BananaBolts]

To be honest, the Melee Falcon boards are probably one of the best resources for a PM Falcon main. Falcon is relatively unchanged and all the advice and knowledge from Melee carries over very well.

I have nothing against Melee but I'd rather mingle with PM players anyways, seeing as I'm playing PM Falcon.

It doesn't help that I'm the only top Falcon that frequents these boards either, boards tend to be a lot more active when lots of strong players regularly participate, share knowledge and ideas, and what have you.
It helps newer players find something good to work towards, and it helps the stronger players get more publicity.

Falcon is my new main so I'll be frequenting these parts more often. I plan on sticking with Falcon as a main and having a solid secondary and maybe a third to cover his bad MUs. I probably won't go over 3 characters. If at all possible, I would like to play Falcon in every MU but somehow that feels incredibly difficult.

 

[Scuba Steve]

The Melee boards are relatively dead, so it's not really the best place to mingle. However, I was just pointing out that the Melee boards have a damn near encyclopedic level of information on the good Captain should you choose to learn more about him.

 

[DMG]

Falcon in every MU? The dream is real in 3.5!

 

[-Fatality-]

Falcon in every MU? The dream is real in 3.5!

If at all possible, I would like to play Falcon in every MU but somehow that feels incredibly difficult.

I've been rocking the solo Falcon since 3.02, trust me when I say that it's a hell of a lot more doable now in 3.5, no more ridiculous Mewtwo's or Sonic's to ruin our day now! Get good, and you'll be fine.

 

[BananaBolts]

I've been rocking the solo Falcon since 3.02, trust me when I say that it's a hell of a lot more doable now in 3.5, no more ridiculous Mewtwo's or Sonic's to ruin our day now! Get good, and you'll be fine.

Isn't Sheik vs. Falcon still a bad MU?

 

[DMG]

It's not NTSC Melee bad? He's had way harder MU's in PM than the PM version of Sheik, I'll put it that way.

 

[BananaBolts]

Which MU should I improve on the most, assuming that I am a typical Falcon player with similar struggles to every other Falcon?
Characters often main'd by players should be kept in mind.

 

[DMG]

Whatever is common in your region. Every place has different threats: DFW doesn't have many top tier mains, but we have a lot of strong mains for characters that other regions probably don't have (TL, ROB, Charizard, Roy, etc). That's what I need to prep for, Falco or Sheik or x character not so much.

 

[Foo]

Hola, new friends! I was formerly a devoted ZSS main, determined to figure out each and every last trick in her sleeve and be the best ZSS player in my region, but... well 3.5 happened. I won't go into it, especially since everyone who reads tier list discussion or read ZSS forums knows.

The point is, I'm a falcon main now! Let me start with a few questions.

1. When playing against players near my own skill, while I do well, I often feel like I have to work MUCH harder than they do. I feel like one mistake from me leads to death from a crouch cancel downtilt, or something stupid. Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong? I get the impression falcon is a highs like mountains lows like oceans kinda character, but I wanna make sure.
2. What's a good secondary to smooth over falcons bad matchups? Roy is my current secondary because he was before, is this a good choice?
3. Do most people feel falcon is completely "figured out." I am always one to test the jankest of options, the yoloest of plays, and the most confusing moves. Mostly, I fail miserably, but occasionally I figure out that something jank actually works. Currently, I'm testing out non-jab frame traps on shield, short hop-waveland back-spaced ftilt and edge canceled falcon kick for jank ledge guards :3
4. If I post vids of me playing in tourney, will I get actual feedback? When I did so in the ZSS forums, nobody gave me any tips. (granted, I was really bad back then)
5. What are the falcon matchups I should be afraid of? I know G&W, charizard, and spacies are pretty tough, but are there any others? I know shiek has been said, but I don't really feel it being too bad.

 

[BananaBolts]

Hola, new friends! I was formerly a devoted ZSS main, determined to figure out each and every last trick in her sleeve and be the best ZSS player in my region, but... well 3.5 happened. I won't go into it, especially since everyone who reads tier list discussion or read ZSS forums knows.

The point is, I'm a falcon main now! Let me start with a few questions.

1. When playing against players near my own skill, while I do well, I often feel like I have to work MUCH harder than they do. I feel like one mistake from me leads to death from a crouch cancel downtilt, or something stupid. Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong? I get the impression falcon is a highs like mountains lows like oceans kinda character, but I wanna make sure.
2. What's a good secondary to smooth over falcons bad matchups? Roy is my current secondary because he was before, is this a good choice?
3. Do most people feel falcon is completely "figured out." I am always one to test the jankest of options, the yoloest of plays, and the most confusing moves. Mostly, I fail miserably, but occasionally I figure out that something jank actually works. Currently, I'm testing out non-jab frame traps on shield, short hop-waveland back-spaced ftilt and edge canceled falcon kick for jank ledge guards :3
4. If I post vids of me playing in tourney, will I get actual feedback? When I did so in the ZSS forums, nobody gave me any tips. (granted, I was really bad back then)
5. What are the falcon matchups I should be afraid of? I know G&W, charizard, and spacies are pretty tough, but are there any others? I know shiek has been said, but I don't really feel it being too bad.

1. This is true, as it seems.
2. I have Marth and Mario as my secondaries. Marth helps me set a pace for myself and it's great practice for spacing. That may seem irrelevant but... *shrugs* meh. I like Mario too because he's got a nice combo game that reminds me of Falcon. Having a secondary with a projectile is nice if you aren't great at weaving in and out of attacks.
3. I don't think he's completely figured out nor do I think we'll ever stop finding new things. I play a TON of 64 Falcon and I learn something new every couple of weeks or so, however minor it may be.
4. I'm not a great PM player (yet) but I'd be happy to critique. Since I play 64, I can at least give feedback on spacing, approaches, punishes, etc. Pretty much anything that translates well in Smash.
5. I would like to know the same thing. From what I've gathered, he has no severe disadvantage to any character. I guess it all comes down to playstyle, habits, mental-blocks, etc.

 

[DMG]

1. Falcon has always been a glutton for punishment. Sometimes, even worse than Spacies due to his terrible tech rolls and subpar recovery choices (even with Side B mixup, he's usually in danger offstage when forced to recover). If you get CC'd a lot, that's the cue to grab or chose attacks like Dair that you can't CC. Against shorter characters that also like to CC a lot, you now have the option to grab them out of their crouch (dunno if this applies to literally every crouching character, or if he can still miss the very flat ones like g^w or Kirby. I assume he can grab everyone now with spacing).

2. I don't know a good secondary for Falcon at this time, since many of his MU's have definitely improved with the nerfs to other characters. I would probably pick a secondary that seems to do fine vs Fox, Falco, and Sheik (good luck??). Marth or Roy seem decent but may have their own CC troubles or weird things to deal with.


3. Falcon is a pretty straight forward character, and he is someone that needs to be highly efficient with punishes and movement. You usually can't afford to "do the jank" because of how hard he can be punished, and his established options tend to already be the best. If SH Uair is a good idea for the MU or the situation, trying to replace it with Diagonal F-tilt probably won't work. Using Dtilt instead of grabbing and Uthrowing probably isn't as good. Etc

You don't have to always be a "cookie cutter" Falcon. Maybe you like to edgeguard with Utilt or Bair instead of Knee and Stomp? Stuff like that is fine, just don't forgo what works for something less effective. We can't afford to do that and be wrong very often.


4. You'll get feedback, at least quality over quantity.


5. His MU spread is yet to be tested out fully in this patch. It's very hard to accurately predict how much better Falcon should perform with the recovery nerfs and onstage nerfs to some of the best characters in the game, especially since he's still highly vulnerable to combos. Someone like Charizard probably won the MU before, but might manage to still go even with Falcon due to trading stocks or handling neutral just fine. Sonic on the other hand might solidly lose or Lucas might definitely lose or Ivy might get pooped on etc

With that said, the top few or so characters you should probably still look out for (in no order) are:

Roy
Falco
Wolf
Sheik
Fox
Maybe TL


Other MU's either have decent nerfs for the other character, or Falcon buffs to grab shorties (G^W, Kirby, Snake, etc have probably become easier now that grab is a more reliable threat that can't be silly crouched). Mewtwo and MK might still turn out to be fine vs Falcon, so I wouldn't necessarily sleep on them either.

 

[Foo]

@ DMG It's not that I'm struggling with crouch canceling in particular, it's just that I can die to JUST that lol. If that's normal, though, I don't have too much to worry about then. The payoff of landing up throw, upair, falling upair, ledge cancelled upair, nair, knee for the kill (or any long combo like that) is just too satisfying.

As for upward ftilt, instead of upair, that's just because it's OBVIOUSLY bad. There are lots of things that are look bad on paper, but might actually work. For instance, I just thought about using backwards falcon dive to ledge guard certain recoveries. I have no idea if that's on to something, or completely awful and I won't until I try it lol. I'm sure there's some secrets left behind falcons mask, it'll just take a lot of lost games to figure out what they are :} I'm not going to be jank for the sake of being jank, though. For instance, here's a tech nobody thought of with ZSS that I used a lot that worked really well. Against semifloaties, downtilt popped them up PERFECTLY for nair no matter the DI at low to mid %s. I also knew that the first hit of fair applied hitstun, but sent the opponent effectively nowhere. That meant I could shffl the first hit only of fair, and combo PERFECTLY into downtilt with only the most perfect SDI letting you out of it. Also, first hit fair was basically lagless, so I could first hit fair to jab as a frame trap on shield.

That makes me think... maybe falcon can do this same with first hit nair? huehuehue

From the list you gave me, looks like Roy will do fine as a secondary. The only character on that list I think I'll struggle with is the zard since he beats roy AND falcon. Thanks for the replies

 

[DMG]

Np. And yeah there's a difference between experimenting in creative ways vs the mayor of jankville trick gimmicks, it's just that usually in either case you're better off with the "tried and true" of Falcon. I would put more time into, say getting 100% familiar with weak knee edgeguards (how soon you need to use the move to still recover, situations where you might want or be able to FF it, etc) over figuring out whether something like backwards Falcon Dive might have a situational usefulness in edgeguards. If you're going to experiment in those ways, I'd at least try to get as efficient as possible with his more traditional choices (and I'd venture you probably will cover the bases)


Getting 80% proficient with high tier options, is probably more useful than getting 100% with mid tier options. Basically how I would try to describe it. The appeal, for me at least, to venture into those other choices doesn't seem compelling most of the time.

 

[Foo]

Np. And yeah there's a difference between experimenting in creative ways vs the mayor of jankville trick gimmicks, it's just that usually in either case you're better off with the "tried and true" of Falcon. I would put more time into, say getting 100% familiar with weak knee edgeguards (how soon you need to use the move to still recover, situations where you might want or be able to FF it, etc) over figuring out whether something like backwards Falcon Dive might have a situational usefulness in edgeguards. If you're going to experiment in those ways, I'd at least try to get as efficient as possible with his more traditional choices (and I'd venture you probably will cover the bases)


Getting 80% proficient with high tier options, is probably more useful than getting 100% with mid tier options. Basically how I would try to describe it. The appeal, for me at least, to venture into those other choices doesn't seem compelling most of the time.

I am finding it hard to get what I'm trying to say across. I get the impression that you think I play falcon in a super jank ridiculous way. If you saw me play (at least if I was trying hard), I would look like a mostly normal falcon. I'm still a little raw, as I just started playing falcon as more than my troll character. However, my comboing is pretty solid, my spacing is good, I tech chase well and I generally see 92% L-cancel rate at the end of the game, and I never L-cancel power knees that kill. The one thing you'd notice, is that every once in a while, maybe once a game, you'd say "why the !@#$ did he do that?!" I like to, very rarely, throw out a very weird (not really bad, just weird) option simply to throw my opponent off guard. I do this with every character I play, and I find it really helps me set the pace for the game.

Anyway, what I was talking about before is COMPLETELY independent from that. I'm not going to try to master mid tier option, I'm going to try and discover a new high tier option, even if it's niche. Falcon has been mostly considered "figured out" since melee, but this game is different then melee, so I bet there's some things that work here that wouldn't work in melee. If I don't find any, I'm not going to force it though. If you don't think that's worth putting time into, then eh, maybe you're right. However, I enjoy it and this game is primarily for fun (and style). Besides, my fundamentals are already pretty solid outside of reads and defensive play/positioning, but I can work on those as well as test at pretty much the same time.

 

[RedGamer]

^
^
^
^
FALCON KICK FOOTSTOOLSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

*ahem*

As I have played falcon in tournament since melee, there's a butt load of stuff that's new and just waiting to be found out. I primarily play standard melee matchups the same, with tricks and gimmicks still working...mostly.
(I freaking LOVE playing against good falcos, cause when I destroy them, they're all like "WHAAAAT????????")
Now, as for finding new things: when I started footstooling regularly, I stopped playing falcon in melee. Cause why not?

I can play solid falcon and I have been for a while now, but every once in a while I'll go for things like Up throw -> up air -> get above them -> ledge cancel falcon kick -> Double jump footstool -> stomp -> tech chase regrab -> up throw -> Hyes knee just to be disrespectful

BTW Metal Cavern, WarioWare, and Yoshi's Story are my favorite stage for no reason at all.

 

[Scuba Steve]

WarioWare has all those delicious ledges to edge cancel on and Yoshi's has a ton of fun movement tricks

 

[RedGamer]

sup, falcons!
today, I have a new awesome thing of things.

since 3.5 I've been playing ganon more.
since I started playing ganon, I've been doing ganon things with falcon.
since I've been doing ganon things with falcon, I've been having more fun.
since I've been having more fun as falcon, I've been placing higher than normal.

so it was probably a week or two ago on a Thursday, I got fourth at a tournament.
I lost to a luigi player named DONG (the guy that won 1st), and a sonic player named Espy (the guy that got third).
for those of you that may not know who espy is, he placed top 8 in brawl at MLG Dallas using sonic, who is considered low tier.

now, I don't know yet how it is in 3.5, but in 3.02 luigi WRECKED falcon. Like...for real, so if anybody is actually reading my rant, watch out for luigi. I'm happy with my placing kinda, cause espy is my hero but I want to beat him even more now.

shoutouts to the scrub above me for those falcon dittos that we played that tournament.
and @ -Fatality- if you would critique our set and give us both pointers, that'd be great.

PK-Thunder vs ScubaSteve
(btw, no shots fired at scuba steve. I like to think of us as falcon buddies.)

And if you would critique my sets vs other people, that would also be great

PK-Thunder vs Espy
PK-Thunder vs Grime

also this set was AWESOME!!! critique it please

ScubaSteve vs EclipseKirby

 

[Scuba Steve]

I played like poopy in our set and looked like a scrub

plz dun watch

 

[DoorKnob]

Falcon lost to luigi? I don't think so. I felt falcon won that in every version.

 

[Foo]

Yeah, I agree. Didn't feel great, but didn't feel that bad. Nair is a huge combo breaker, but if you baited it out with jump waveland, you could get a free knee with good timing. Falcon kick is also pretty useful in the matchup.

 

[RedGamer]

I couldn't get anything going cause this guy mastered the matchup and I had no clue about it.
sooooooo I got 4 stocked.....if the frames weren't dropped in the video I would post it. but alas, it skips from about 15 seconds in to about the last stock.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I couldn't get anything going cause this guy mastered the matchup and I had no clue about it.
sooooooo I got 4 stocked.....if the frames weren't dropped in the video I would post it. but alas, it skips from about 15 seconds in to about the last stock.

He's played my Falcon a bunch, so he's got experience in the matchup. I had a close set with him a week or two before you came down to Austin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIKfp87q3Uk

Not really a super common matchup in PM

 

[DMG]

That music sounds like a remix from the Pokemon TCG on Gameboy! What a nostalgia trip

Also, Uair is like best move vs Luigi, tends to carry him across. Don't get greedy for Knees or stomps, his Nair or xyz will usually come out too fast. Take ur guaranteed hits, which is usually Uair after throws or prior Uairs, and carry him offstage. That's my Luigi MU advice: the rest you'll probably learn from playing them a bit. Helps that I fool around with weegee some

 

[RedGamer]

thanks for the tip!
Birdman's Falcon is beast on some for real drugz. just saiyan.

 

[BananaBolts]

I was playing against a Marth yesterday and I combo'd him with a reverse knee -> uair -> uair -> "yes" knee

Man, Falcon is a champ.

 

[RedGamer]

I feel like my neutral game and DI sucks against marth, so I'll just have to practice that.

another nifty thing I found is that up throw -> falcon kick -> knee works on most fast fallers if they are dumb and don't DI the falcon kick.

You can learn a lot from the melee falcon boards about falcon fundamentals, but I can keep you guys posted on P:M specific falcon tech.

 

[eskimoparade]

I just booted up melee for the first time in ages and noticed how accurate my dashdancing is in that game with falcon, I just cant seem to get the same results in PM, any advice?