Captain falcon - from melee to brawl - explaination about why captain falcon is 'bad'

[PartyHatPikaChu]

Many people ask why captain falcon is said to be the worst character in the game. This may not be as obvious to some (new) people, but after reading this thread, you will understand.

Falcon in brawl
Falcon is said to be a melee character in brawl. Falcon lived and breathed the melee engine, and the brawl engine 'hurts' him, so to speak. With the overall floatiness of characters, and the fact camping is effective, does not help falcon at all.

Falcon's moveset
Captain falcon has an overall lacking moveset. With the lack of disjointed hitboxes, projectiles and (decent) approach moves, falcon can be forced to approach (by projectiles users for example) wich, in theory, puts falcon at a disadvantage.

Falcon's priority
Falcon has terrible priority. Most projectiles stop falcon's down/side b, or even stop it + damaging falcon (falco's lazers).

Most of Falcon's other moves are easily outprioritized too. There are characters who outprioritize falcon's moveset, with (a few of) their moves.

Falcon's range
Falcon has terrible range. He is outranged easily, wich is a huge disadvantage, as when he approaches, he also needs to come actually close. This doesn't help him either.

Falcon's unreliable kill moves
Falcon lacks reliable kill moves. Due to this, mindgames, or a mistake on the opponents part are needed for KOing. Most of falcon's (kill) moves are also risky, as they have present startup/ending lag.

Falcon's knee
Falcon's knee's sweetspot frames are reduced in comparison to melee. This is still one of falcon's kill moves, but, harder to sweatspot with in brawl, and hard to hit with overall. The flub effect does have its uses, but cannot be used to KO. (as the tripping effect of the flub knee stops at around 35%, wich lets it combo into an Utilt, wich KO's, for example, but at higher percents the opponent won't trip from a flub knee).

Falcon's matchups
Another reason for falcon beeing said to be the worst, is because he has a disadvantage against all the other characters. Some worse tahn others, but falcon has no matchups where he is in the advantage, as it stands now.

This should cover most of why falcon is said to be the worst character. Now please, stop asking why he is the worst character, as as it stands now, he unfortunatly just is.

 

[SuSa]

Can I propose that most of us are just doing it wrong?

:mewtwo:

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

The Brawl engine is hurting CF the most. He didn't have too much priority in Melee in the first place. If I recall correctly, CF was mostly just Dash-dancing, looking for an opening to grab, stomp, or Nair. Lack of hitstun makes his combos impossible. Lack of Sheildstun(which he had a lot of in melee) makes punishing him on block a lot easier. LAck of L-cancelling gives him less versatility in his aerials. Lack of momentum from jumps makes him easier to predict(I swear this guy could long jump halfway across FD in Melee.)

We're not doing it . Sakurai did it wrong.

 

[POKE40]

The Brawl engine is hurting CF the most. He didn't have too much priority in Melee in the first place. If I recall correctly, CF was mostly just Dash-dancing, looking for an opening to grab, stomp, or Nair. Lack of hitstun makes his combos impossible. Lack of Sheildstun(which he had a lot of in melee) makes punishing him on block a lot easier. LAck of L-cancelling gives him less versatility in his aerials. Lack of momentum from jumps makes him easier to predict(I swear this guy could long jump halfway across FD in Melee.)

We're not doing it . Sakurai did it wrong.

Exactly what I was thinking^^ Listen to dis guy
Dash-dance=>grab=>dthrow=>repeat
Bout the only thing to do as a punishment and throw in a falcon punch just for the fun

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

Simple Epxplanation. Watch the Epic falcon Punch Video on Youtube. You'll see that he transfers the title of Captain Falcon to Rick Wheeler right before*SPOILERS* he PAWNCHes Black Shadow into a bomb. Rick Wheeler is the CF in Brawl, and he is a n00b at fighting. Thus, CF is not good.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Falcon in brawl
Falcon is said to be a melee character in brawl. Falcon lived and breathed the melee engine, and the brawl engine 'hurts' him, so to speak. With the overall floatiness of characters, and the fact camping is effective, does not help falcon at all.

[/COLOR]

Why is it that when i said this about 2 months ago, i got shunned?

Besides, this guy is right. But again it is one of the 4 threads about falcon and why he is bad.

 

[Fabian the Fastman]

Why is it that when i said this about 2 months ago, i got shunned?

Besides, this guy is right. But again it is one of the 4 threads about falcon and why he is bad.

Cause people, unfortunately, don't like hearing the truth.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Many people ask why captain falcon is said to be the worst character in the game. This may not be as obvious to some (new) people, but after reading this thread, you will understand.

O Rly?

Falcon in brawl
Falcon is said to be a melee character in brawl. Falcon lived and breathed the melee engine, and the brawl engine 'hurts' him, so to speak. With the overall floatiness of characters, and the fact camping is effective, does not help falcon at all.

CF still has the over-all highest mobility in Brawl. Very high air speed, falling speed, running speed and a number of speedy attacks.

Falcon's moveset
Captain falcon has an overall lacking moveset. With the lack of disjointed hitboxes, projectiles and (decent) approach moves, falcon can be forced to approach (by projectiles users for example) wich, in theory, puts falcon at a disadvantage.

Many new and useful aspects were added to Falcon's special moves.

Falcon's priority
Falcon has terrible priority. Most projectiles stop falcon's down/side b, or even stop it + damaging falcon (falco's lazers).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214519
Do some research. Really, it's time.

Most of Falcon's other moves are easily outprioritized too. There are characters who outprioritize falcon's moveset, with (a few of) their moves.

But not all of thier moves. So are they going to spam that move? We cannot learn ways around those moves?

Falcon's range
Falcon has terrible range. He is outranged easily, wich is a huge disadvantage, as when he approaches, he also needs to come actually close. This doesn't help him either.

Range list. Ranges are from longest to shortest. Some of us also know it as "reach".

Marth, Ike, Link
Meta Knight, King Dedede
Toon Link, Ness, Lucas
Mr. Game & Watch
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Captain Falcon, Kirby, Fox, Falco
Wolf, Sheik
Zelda
Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Ice Climbers
Pit
Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Peach
Snake, Sonic
Charizard, Ivysaur
Ganondorf, Squirtle
Wario
Jigglypuff

LOL WUT. Only about 20+ characters below him....

Falcon's unreliable kill moves
Falcon lacks reliable kill moves. Due to this, mindgames, or a mistake on the opponents part are needed for KOing. Most of falcon's (kill) moves are also risky, as they have present startup/ending lag.

I suppose there's no way for him to kill, right? Not like Samus who has Bair, Dtilt and that's it.

Falcon's knee
Falcon's knee's sweetspot frames are reduced in comparison to melee. This is still one of falcon's kill moves, but, harder to sweatspot with in brawl, and hard to hit with overall. The flub effect does have its uses, but cannot be used to KO. (as the tripping effect of the flub knee stops at around 35%, wich lets it combo into an Utilt, wich KO's, for example, but at higher percents the opponent won't trip from a flub knee).

Flub'd knee CAN get KOs and very early too. Gimping.

Falcon's matchups
Another reason for falcon beeing said to be the worst, is because he has a disadvantage against all the other characters. Some worse tahn others, but falcon has no matchups where he is in the advantage, as it stands now.

Oh, your one of those people... Players seem to be reconsidering a few of his matchups.

This should cover most of why falcon is said to be the worst character. Now please, stop asking why he is the worst character, as as it stands now, he unfortunatly just is.

This should cover most of why Falcon is not the worst character. Now, please stop claiming that he is the worst character, as he stands now, becuase of some biased Backroom who can't seem to grasp the new Brawl version of Captain Awesome.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

O Rly?



CF still has the over-all highest mobility in Brawl. Very high air speed, falling speed, running speed and a number of speedy attacks.

Many new and useful aspects were added to Falcon's special moves.



http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214519
Do some research. Really, it's time.



But not all of thier moves. So are they going to spam that move? We cannot learn ways around those moves?



Range list. Ranges are from longest to shortest. Some of us also know it as "reach".

Marth, Ike, Link
Meta Knight, King Dedede
Toon Link, Ness, Lucas
Mr. Game & Watch
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Captain Falcon, Kirby, Fox, Falco
Wolf, Sheik
Zelda
Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Ice Climbers
Pit
Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Peach
Snake, Sonic
Charizard, Ivysaur
Ganondorf, Squirtle
Wario
Jigglypuff

LOL WUT. Only about 20+ characters below him....

I suppose there's no way for him to kill, right? Not like Samus who has Bair, Dtilt and that's it.



Flub'd knee CAN get KOs and very early too. Gimping.



Oh, your one of those people... Players seem to be reconsidering a few of his matchups.



This should cover most of why Falcon is not the worst character. Now, please stop claiming that he is the worst character, as he stands now, becuase of some biased Backroom who can't seem to grasp the new Brawl version of Captain Awesome.

omg are you serious
People like you who don't accept the facts are just..peculiar
lol biased backroom..

yes really

falcon's reach is crap dude

and lol at a way around their moves that cover your entire moveset

SPEEDY ATTACKS lol

and the new aspects to his specials..yeah..they truly save him

dude, I main falcon too, but you should accept the facts, like i thought the whole board already did..this topic is to avoid new threads asking about this..not for some falcon board regular to find out about it lol

 

[Darxmarth23]

We do accept the facts.

We see them in a different way though. An optimistic way.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

We do accept the facts.

We see them in a different way though. An optimistic way.

smashbrother doesn't..

 

[SmashBrother2008]

smashbrother doesn't..

Don't talk to me about optimism, sir. You just made an entire thread dedicated to how crappy you think CF is. I have been opitimistic about Falcon since before I joined SWF and everyone here has hated me for it. Ayaz would agree.

Darxmarth is right. It's HOW we see Falcon that is optimistc. Before I came to SWF the first changes I noticed in Falcon to Brawl where his positive ones. Ex: New leapfrog effect on RP, increased damage on moves, longer recovery, ect. Once on the boards I started hearing about his negative changes.

Now about those speedy attacks.

1. Uair
2. Bair
3. Nair
4. Ftilt
5. Jab
6. Falcon Dive
7. Fair

Is this enough to constitute a slow moveset? If CF had all slow moves, he would barely be playable. Notice that these FAST attacks are also among the most used in any fight between a good Falcon player and another.

 

[Zodac]

slow:
falcon punch, un-usable start-up + ending lag to top it off it's suckyness
falcon kick, start-up
falcon dive, start-up, massive ending lag if you don't hit an edge
raptor boost, slow start-up and end

all his B moves...

U smash is okay
F smash pretty slow
D smash, little slow start-up, but if you miss first hit....

tilts are ok but there not exactly speedy

dash attack is fast

 

[SmashBrother2008]

slow:
falcon punch, un-usable start-up + ending lag to top it off it's suckyness
falcon kick, start-up
falcon dive, start-up, massive ending lag if you don't hit an edge
raptor boost, slow start-up and end

all his B moves...

U smash is okay
F smash pretty slow
D smash, little slow start-up, but if you miss first hit....

tilts are ok but there not exactly speedy

dash attack is fast

While this is true, I was trying to make a point that Falcon has a decent mixture of Fast AND Slow attacks.

But thanks for the dash attack one, I almost left it out!

8. Dash attack

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

Don't talk to me about optimism, sir. You just made an entire thread dedicated to how crappy you think CF is. I have been opitimistic about Falcon since before I joined SWF and everyone here has hated me for it. Ayaz would agree.

Darxmarth is right. It's HOW we see Falcon that is optimistc. Before I came to SWF the first changes I noticed in Falcon to Brawl where his positive ones. Ex: New leapfrog effect on RP, increased damage on moves, longer recovery, ect. Once on the boards I started hearing about his negative changes.

Now about those speedy attacks.

1. Uair
2. Bair
3. Nair
4. Ftilt
5. Jab
6. Falcon Dive
7. Fair

Is this enough to constitute a slow moveset? If CF had all slow moves, he would barely be playable. Notice that these FAST attacks are also among the most used in any fight between a good Falcon player and another.

I was saying you don't accept facts, i wasn't saying you aren't optimistic.

also, yes, the moves you listed are quite 'speedy' (except for Ftilt and Falcon dive) but not fast in comparison to moves other characters have, and some characters have faster moves while also beeing better (more knockback/damage). Only falcon's jab is quite fast and usful in comparison to other chars (as it combo's into a grab)

also Fair's ending lag is quite present, and a SH knee (so you don't endure landing lag) won't sweetspot smaller chars, or needs you to predict a jump..

slow:
falcon punch, un-usable start-up + ending lag to top it off it's suckyness
falcon kick, start-up
falcon dive, start-up, massive ending lag if you don't hit an edge
raptor boost, slow start-up and end

all his B moves...

U smash is okay
F smash pretty slow
D smash, little slow start-up, but if you miss first hit....

tilts are ok but there not exactly speedy

dash attack is fast

Falcon kicks ending lag is very very punishable, too. (and shieldgrab makes falcon kick almost always risky)

and dash attack may be 'fast' (it isn't as fast as it should be, for what it can do) but it is very unreliable (due to shieldgrab) and it is predictable

 

[Darxmarth23]

We do accept the facts, yet we are looking at them in a optimistic way.

We already know that he isn't the best, we're sick of hearing it. We look on the bright side and try our best to find more ways to progress his meta game.

Speed isn't the only thing that matters. Honestly, if you think a move is slow because it starts up in half a second instead of a fourth of a second, then by all means, you don't have to use it.

This thread is nothing but a repetition of the past. We know the info provided and frankly we don't need to be reminded of what we know. Thank you for your effort though.

 

[Wogrim]

Why is it that when i said this about 2 months ago, i got shunned?

Besides, this guy is right. But again it is one of the 4 threads about falcon and why he is bad.

It's an old idea, far older than 2 months. The people who have been here a long time have no interest in talking about it again, but the newer people are eating it up. And SB2008 is trying to dispel misconceptions about Falcon's weaknesses. Neither side has said anything that wasn't stated several months ago, and OP is flaunting his ignorance by making a new topic and by not addressing those old counterarguments.

slow:
falcon punch, un-usable start-up + ending lag to top it off it's suckyness
falcon kick, start-up
falcon dive, start-up, massive ending lag if you don't hit an edge
raptor boost, slow start-up and end

all his B moves...

U smash is okay
F smash pretty slow
D smash, little slow start-up, but if you miss first hit....

tilts are ok but there not exactly speedy

dash attack is fast

You can't say a moveset is slow because it has slow moves. You have to show that there is not enough variety of fast moves to use them frequently. Characters that are considered fast still have slow moves, they just can avoid using them if they wish.

DSmash is also usually safer than FSmash because FSmash puts you closer to your opponent, which gives them more options to punish you since you'll be in range of attacks that you wouldn't be if you DSmashed.

 

[Mit]

I don't think any of the people who think Falcon is not the worst character in the game have played against any good competition.

I play against someone who mains Mario and Yoshi, and from just those two characters, just about every single claimed disadvantage of Falcon is highlighted. Me and him are both about the same skill level, and I do beat him occasionally (almost half the time), but every single battle is very, very uphill for me. Heck, I have trouble against people who are much worse than me who use good characters.

You can claim his 'advantages' all you want, but the truth is none of them make him better than any other character in the game. You have to use his advantages to use him effective, but they still don't make him a better character than he is currently perceived.


Also, spot on with the defensive players. I played against a Wolf who just camped in one spot and it was horrible. Just about every one of Falcon's attacks could be powershielded/spot dodged into an attack, and Wolf was fast enough to avoid any mixups I tried to throw at him, and usually counter with one of Wolf's very fast smashes. Oh, or, he could just smash through just about all of my approaches because of Falcon's poor priority.

Falcon is a bad character. I love him, you all love him, but it's something that's going to have to be accepted (nothing wrong with it either, just makes it that much more satisfying when you win with Falcon).


EDIT: Oh, and claiming move buffs as something that made him better in Brawl as opposed to Melee? LOL. As stated before, it was the Melee engine that made Falcon so good. He was all about being able to do amazing combos. If you completely take that away, his small move buffs in Brawl can hardly do anything to make up for it.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

We do accept the facts, yet we are looking at them in a optimistic way.

We already know that he isn't the best, we're sick of hearing it. We look on the bright side and try our best to find more ways to progress his meta game.

Speed isn't the only thing that matters. Honestly, if you think a move is slow because it starts up in half a second instead of a fourth of a second, then by all means, you don't have to use it.

This thread is nothing but a repetition of the past. We know the info provided and frankly we don't need to be reminded of what we know. Thank you for your effort though.

This thread is not for the people who are falcon board regulars, as this thread contains nothing you don't know, and if you don't want to be reminded..well than don't come to the falcon boards we have to accept the facts before we can work on improving. And this may be a repitition, but last time it didn't work, as again, someone asked why falcon is bad.

It's an old idea, far older than 2 months. The people who have been here a long time have no interest in talking about it again, but the newer people are eating it up. And SB2008 is trying to dispel misconceptions about Falcon's weaknesses. Neither side has said anything that wasn't stated several months ago, and OP is flaunting his ignorance by making a new topic and by not addressing those old counterarguments.



You can't say a moveset is slow because it has slow moves. You have to show that there is not enough variety of fast moves to use them frequently. Characters that are considered fast still have slow moves, they just can avoid using them if they wish.

DSmash is also usually safer than FSmash because FSmash puts you closer to your opponent, which gives them more options to punish you since you'll be in range of attacks that you wouldn't be if you DSmashed.

Ignorance..no, last time it didn't work, better get this stickied (or the thread saying the same as this one before this one).

Also, Mit is right.

 

[Wogrim]

I don't think any of the people who think Falcon is not the worst character in the game have played against any good competition.

I play against someone who mains Mario and Yoshi, and from just those two characters, just about every single claimed disadvantage of Falcon is highlighted. Me and him are both about the same skill level, and I do beat him occasionally (almost half the time), but every single battle is very, very uphill for me. Heck, I have trouble against people who are much worse than me who use good characters.

You can claim his 'advantages' all you want, but the truth is none of them make him better than any other character in the game. You have to use his advantages to use him effective, but they still don't make him a better character than he is currently perceived.


Also, spot on with the defensive players. I played against a Wolf who just camped in one spot and it was horrible. Just about every one of Falcon's attacks could be powershielded/spot dodged into an attack, and Wolf was fast enough to avoid any mixups I tried to throw at him, and usually counter with one of Wolf's very fast smashes. Oh, or, he could just smash through just about all of my approaches because of Falcon's poor priority.

Falcon is a bad character. I love him, you all love him, but it's something that's going to have to be accepted (nothing wrong with it either, just makes it that much more satisfying when you win with Falcon).


EDIT: Oh, and claiming move buffs as something that made him better in Brawl as opposed to Melee? LOL. As stated before, it was the Melee engine that made Falcon so good. He was all about being able to do amazing combos. If you completely take that away, his small move buffs in Brawl can hardly do anything to make up for it.

People aren't claiming advantages except for movement speed and DTaunt. We know we don't have great priority, great range, or great kill moves, but they get the job done.

This thread is not for the people who are falcon board regulars, as this thread contains nothing you don't know, and if you don't want to be reminded..well than don't come to the falcon boards we have to accept the facts before we can work on improving. And this may be a repitition, but last time it didn't work, as again, someone asked why falcon is bad.



Ignorance..no, last time it didn't work, better get this stickied (or the thread saying the same as this one before this one).

Also, Mit is right.

No.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

I was saying you don't accept facts, i wasn't saying you aren't optimistic.

also, yes, the moves you listed are quite 'speedy' (except for Ftilt and Falcon dive) but not fast in comparison to moves other characters have, and some characters have faster moves while also beeing better (more knockback/damage). Only falcon's jab is quite fast and usful in comparison to other chars (as it combo's into a grab)

also Fair's ending lag is quite present, and a SH knee (so you don't endure landing lag) won't sweetspot smaller chars, or needs you to predict a jump..

Sry, I didn't read the highlighted part of your post. Then all I have to say is; I do accept the 'facts'. And I use the word 'facts' loosely. I would just like to dismiss the ones that are false, based on theory, biased or there is not enough information yet to fully understand that you are throwing into discussion. A character with truly bad priority would not be able to cancel Whorenado, but even CF has answers to that. SANDBAG would be a character with bad priority.

@ SH knee on tiny characters; that's assuming that you are both on flat, level ground, closely standing in front of one another. <-- not always the situation. The tiny characters are more often found attacking, approaching from the air, on a platform/uneven grounds or being 'released' from a set up move or attack (yes, Captain Falcon can attack too) which provides a much higher chance of kneeing.

Falcon kicks ending lag is very very punishable, too. (and shieldgrab makes falcon kick almost always risky)

and dash attack may be 'fast' (it isn't as fast as it should be, for what it can do) but it is very unreliable (due to shieldgrab) and it is predictable

Falcon Kick Ledge cancel eliminates punishable ending lag/can combo. And assuming a character is hit by the Falcon Kick, there is no ensured way to punish. Situational, I'll admit but not every Falcon player just Falcon Kicks on a whim just to throw an attack out.

 

[Darxmarth23]

This thread is not for the people who are falcon board regulars, as this thread contains nothing you don't know, and if you don't want to be reminded..well than don't come to the falcon boards we have to accept the facts before we can work on improving. And this may be a repitition, but last time it didn't work, as again, someone asked why falcon is bad.

I come to the boards usually and I am not reminded of this until the recent spam wave of "This is why Falcon is bad" threads. I was doing fine here.

We do accept the facts. It is safe to say everyone does. We have been improving. The boards were filled with discoveries in December.

Last time it didn't work b/c we didn't know much. The game has only been out for 11 months.

But we do know the facts. Now.

If we didn't then we wouldn't be called the Falcon Boards.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Falcon Kick Ledge cancel eliminates punishable ending lag/can combo. And assuming a character is hit by the Falcon Kick, there is no ensured way to punish. Situational, I'll admit but not every Falcon player just Falcon Kicks on a whim just to throw an attack out.

Double post, yet I don't give a d@mn.

The quote above is true to every letter. The fact is, the kick isn't all that good a move. We use it when it is safe to use. The end lag of a slow move, or when we confuse our opponents with a mind game.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

Sry, I didn't read the highlighted part of your post. Then all I have to say is; I do accept the 'facts'. And I use the word 'facts' loosely. I would just like to dismiss the ones that are false, based on theory, biased or there is not enough information yet to fully understand that you are throwing into discussion. A character with truly bad priority would not be able to cancel Whorenado, but even CF has answers to that. SANDBAG would be a character with bad priority.

@ SH knee on tiny characters; that's assuming that you are both on flat, level ground, closely standing in front of one another. <-- not always the situation. The tiny characters are more often found attacking, approaching from the air, on a platform/uneven grounds or being 'released' from a set up move or attack (yes, Captain Falcon can attack too) which provides a much higher chance of kneeing.



Falcon Kick Ledge cancel eliminates punishable ending lag/can combo. And assuming a character is hit by the Falcon Kick, there is no ensured way to punish. Situational, I'll admit but not every Falcon player just Falcon Kicks on a whim just to throw an attack out.

A yes sandbag.. are you seriously denying falcon has crap priority lol

and 'not always the situation' can also be said about them beeing on a platform mirite..

and yeah..small characters are the easiest to knee..

and there are very very few moves that combo into a sweet knee (just the first hit of the Nair, and grab releases on specific characters) so the opponent will mostly just airdodge after one of captain falcon's attacks..

and also, last time I checked, almost everyone said the FK>LC was too situational for practical use, and now you use it as a pro for falcon's game..

and I wasn't saying you use falcon kick in bad situations, its just, you shouldn't use falcon kick often. Especially not when the opponent doesn't have alot of damage.

I come to the boards usually and I am not reminded of this until the recent spam wave of "This is why Falcon is bad" threads. I was doing fine here.

We do accept the facts. It is safe to say everyone does. We have been improving. The boards were filled with discoveries in December.

Last time it didn't work b/c we didn't know much. The game has only been out for 11 months.

But we do know the facts. Now.

If we didn't then we wouldn't be called the Falcon Boards.

You shouldn't need threads to tell you falcon is bad. You should always have that in the back of your head.

seriously, how can you guys be denying this..have you seen the latest tier list?
oh yeah, I forgot, a 'biased backroom' the people in the backroom know their stuffz, thats why they are in the backroom.

Double post, yet I don't give a d@mn.

The quote above is true to every letter. The fact is, the kick isn't all that good a move. We use it when it is safe to use. The end lag of a slow move, or when we confuse our opponents with a mind game.

In comparison to other characters moves the falcon kick is crap. It does way too less damage/knockback for its startup/ending lag.

 

[Tenki]

falcon's reach is crap dude

I use Sonic.
I 'second' Falcon (friendlies/wifi).

Falcon's reach isn't crappy. At least, not his U-air and U-tilt - and especially compared to Sonic.

In my experience, his U-air either outprioritizes or trades hits with other aerials, and for the most part, deals more damage than the attacks it trades hits with.

But seriously, a "from Melee to Brawl" thread- that's been way overdone. There were at least two previously locked threads on "Falcon is the worst character in the game!" way back in April/March. Of course, you can claim that this thread isn't for Falcon board regulars, but really, it's not something new to anyone who doesn't frequent it, either lol.

And SB2008 is trying to dispel misconceptions about Falcon's weaknesses. Neither side has said anything that wasn't stated several months ago, and OP is flaunting his ignorance by making a new topic and by not addressing those old counterarguments.

Addressing/dispelling misconceptions is always nice.

I have to do it alot -.-'

also, PartyHatPikaChu:
Thoughts on Aerial Falcon Kick?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

EDIT: Oh, and claiming move buffs as something that made him better in Brawl as opposed to Melee? LOL. As stated before, it was the Melee engine that made Falcon so good. He was all about being able to do amazing combos. If you completely take that away, his small move buffs in Brawl can hardly do anything to make up for it.

Thank you. CF was good in Melee because he could rock you harder than almost anyone if you made a mistake. Not only that, but he could BAIT you into making a mistake, grab you, Dthrow -Tech chase stomp - Raptor Boost-> Nair -> Uair -> Kneeeeeeeeeeeeee. In Brawl, CF's like Grab -> Dthrow -> Na.... aw ****.

 

[Zodac]

can you please stop using red and yellow text pikachu? dayum

spamable air dodge in brawl also ***** falcon

 

[Tenki]

Eh, one thing that I thought was interesting, comparing Falcon mains to the rest of the char boards back in April was that they felt they were so special, not being able to combo and such, while it was true for basically every other character.

9_9;
Grab > D-throw > run (opponent airdodge) > grab/pivotgrab.
Grab > D-throw > opponent DI's towards you (opponent tries to airdodge/attack) > N-air/U-air
Grab > D-throw > opponent doesn't DI away (opponent tries to attack) > U-air

sure, none of them are guaranteed, but there are still followups to certain reactions ;/

spamable air dodge in brawl also ***** falcon

I disagree.

Again, I'll bring up that I play Sonic, who arguably has the 'worst priority' in Brawl.

Airdodge, spotdodge - they are our livelyhood. Slow moves, punish moves, charged smashes - we can land them as long as the opponent decides to airdodge, and as long as you know how to catch dead-time.

You can grab, smash, even knee people for rolling, spotdodging, or airdodging, so it's actually a beneficial thing for Falcon and his priority for people to "abuse" airdodge.

If his priority is really as bad as people make it out to be, they're better off attacking than airdodging, since airdodge basically makes them vulnerable if you don't rush in to attack at the earliest possible time.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

I use Sonic.
I 'second' Falcon (friendlies/wifi).

Falcon's reach isn't crappy. At least, not his U-air and U-tilt - and especially compared to Sonic.

In my experience, his U-air either outprioritizes or trades hits with other aerials, and for the most part, deals more damage than the attacks it trades hits with.

But seriously, a "from Melee to Brawl" thread- that's been way overdone. There were at least two previously locked threads on "Falcon is the worst character in the game!" way back in April/March. Of course, you can claim that this thread isn't for Falcon board regulars, but really, it's not something new to anyone who doesn't frequent it, either lol.




Addressing/dispelling misconceptions is always nice.

I have to do it alot -.-'

also, PartyHatPikaChu:
Thoughts on Aerial Falcon Kick?

Aerial falcon kick does have its uses, but the fact you'll always endure lag (except when beeing send flying to/near the top of the screen, makes it very risky. Falcon cannot jump high enough for the aerial falcon kick to finish in the Air (so that there is no lag).

and people are still asking why falcon is 'bad'. So my thread was not for nothing. And the other thread about why falcon is bad, was about the players mentality..

can you please stop using red and yellow text pikachu? dayum

spamable air dodge in brawl also ***** falcon

I only post in yellow..

 

[SmashBrother2008]

And the other thread about why falcon is bad, was about the players mentality..

So which is it? You say that Falcon is just a bad character.

And then you proceed to say that he is 'bad' becuase of players who use him. Don't make a contradicting argument.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

So which is it? You say that Falcon is just a bad character.

And then you proceed to say that he is 'bad' becuase of players who use him. Don't make a contradicting argument.

quote me where I said that the players make him bad..
Hakokk's thread is about the flaws in the mentality.

 

[Tenki]

Aerial falcon kick does have its uses, but the fact you'll always endure lag (except when beeing send flying to/near the top of the screen, makes it very risky. Falcon cannot jump high enough for the aerial falcon kick to finish in the Air (so that there is no lag).

I don't use FK enough to know for sure, but I think it might be comparatively safer than a grounded Falcon Kick if it lands. That said, it might be a decent defensive and/or punisher move, especially considering its 'double hit' and/or knockback.

The main reason why grounded Falcon Kick is dangerous for Falcon is that even if it lands, it knocks your opponent in the air, following your trajectory, making it easier for your opponent to just fall an aerial and counter-hit you while you can't do anything.

;/

 

[Player-3]

Can I propose that most of us are just doing it wrong?

:mewtwo:

i believe that they say that you are doing it right

and that others are doing it wrong


i use grounded FK more than arial.
its more awesome.

 

[Ayaz18]

Attention Everyone:

Stop feeding this useless/pointless thread

let's focus our posts towards evolving Falcon's meta-game shall we?



That is all

 

[Stafy]

I have played Melee recently and the only thing that is different is the Knee, DAir, and his chaingrabs for upthrow.

Nothing really changed. Hell, The Brawl Captain Falcon gives people more percision practice and skill to use. Besides, saying "OH GOD THE KNEE IS GONE ;_;" is dumb because with flubbed knee, it opens way more doors to "combos"/ways of gimping.

But I agree with Ayaz, we shouldn't be complaining how bad Captain Falcon is. We shouldn't say a character is bad because of a tier list. (Hell, Falcon's matchups aren't that bad. I can kill a Dedede and MK pretty easily). We should focus on finding things that are beneficial to Captain Falcon.

 

[Darxmarth23]

You shouldn't need threads to tell you falcon is bad. You should always have that in the back of your head.

We do know. We never asked for 4 f****** threads about it.

seriously, how can you guys be denying this..have you seen the latest tier list?

Yezs. We have. We're getting past it though.

oh yeah, I forgot, a 'biased backroom' the people in the backroom know their stuffz, thats why they are in the backroom.

Tsk tsk.

Leave my thread out of this. That is an old post and my view has changed a bit. Honestly, most people agreed with the thread in the first place.




This thread is over.

 

[Mit]

I have played Melee recently and the only thing that is different is the Knee, DAir, and his chaingrabs for upthrow.

Nothing really changed. Hell, The Brawl Captain Falcon gives people more percision practice and skill to use. Besides, saying "OH GOD THE KNEE IS GONE ;_;" is dumb because with flubbed knee, it opens way more doors to "combos"/ways of gimping.

But I agree with Ayaz, we shouldn't be complaining how bad Captain Falcon is. We shouldn't say a character is bad because of a tier list. (Hell, Falcon's matchups aren't that bad. I can kill a Dedede and MK pretty easily). We should focus on finding things that are beneficial to Captain Falcon.

-.-

Really? Really? I hate to break it to you, but you haven't played any good D3's or Meta Knights most likely, and a LOT has changed besides the knee, dair, and his old chaingrabs. It's called hitstun, and it's just about gone in Brawl. If it was reduced in Melee, Falcon would probably be a lot worse in that game too. He was good because of his combo abilities, not because of particular moves. Brawl removes all of his combo abilities, and leaves us with a low priority, average moveset. Also, flub knee existed in Melee too, and was used for just about all the same things we use it for in Brawl. It was just nice when it was possible to combo into sweet spot knees, not to mention it killed earlier (especially due to how much harder it was to recover in Melee for most characters).

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

Attention Everyone:

Stop feeding this useless/pointless thread

let's focus our posts towards evolving Falcon's meta-game shall we?



That is all

Pointless/useless thread? look around the board. Alot of people are saying things that shows they aren't aware that falcon is indeed, the worst character

I thought everyone accepted this..

One must accept their characters cons..before one can try to improve..'find ways around' said cons.

People saying things like 'noobs' agreeing with falcon beeing the 'worst'..yeah..they are implying they don't get it

 

[fox219]

who cares about priority? just time your attacks right!!!!!!!

 

[fox219]

The Brawl engine is hurting CF the most. He didn't have too much priority in Melee in the first place. If I recall correctly, CF was mostly just Dash-dancing, looking for an opening to grab, stomp, or Nair. Lack of hitstun makes his combos impossible. Lack of Sheildstun(which he had a lot of in melee) makes punishing him on block a lot easier. LAck of L-cancelling gives him less versatility in his aerials. Lack of momentum from jumps makes him easier to predict(I swear this guy could long jump halfway across FD in Melee.)

We're not doing it . Sakurai did it wrong.

SAKURAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY???!!!!!!!!!