Can't Let you cut me Sakurai, Wolf for DLC

[Diddy Kong]

You know, I still don't get the fuss about Falco and Wolf being 'clones'. I really don't.

 

[Deleted member]

People will view characters that have the same premise of Specials and Final Smash as clones, no matter what differences they have otherwise.

It's kind of that double standard why Wolf is seen as a clone to the fanbase while Luigi isn't, despite having more similarities to Mario than Wolf does to Fox.
The biggest issue is the damned Landmaster. If that's taken out, there would likely be less issue to complain about, given that Wolf's differences from Fox's Special moves are more pronounced than Falco's differences, other than the Reflector.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only the Down B is really a clone move though. And yeah, Landmastas. Thats probably THE biggest issue.

 

[Deleted member]

I am well aware that the moves are not the same in how they work, however, as I've repeatedly said, they have the same premise, which is really what people look at.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

I am well aware that the moves are not the same in how they work, however, as I've repeatedly said, they have the same premise, which is really what people look at.

Which is really what people bad or casual players look at.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Even casuals would know the immediate difference. What we're looking at here is a whole different species of something.

 

[Deleted member]

Which is really what people bad or casual players look at.

EDIT: For the sake of being on-topic, all Wolf really needs is to have the Fireburst Pod replace his Landmaster, and he's solid. Even though I'd like him to use the machine guns he's been shown to have in Assault through artwork and his VICTORY SCREEN in multiplayer, they just simply won't happen...

 

[SmashChu]

Which is really what people bad or casual players look at.

Yeah, gonna go with Golden on this one. They are different, but ti's hard to argue when the moves follow a similar style.

I don't think Wolf should be changed (well, least, not a lot), but he is similar to Fox by quite a bit.

 

[Arcadenik]

I want to see Wolf's Side+B improved. Instead of always going diagonally upward, he can go diagonally downward if you push the control stick down and diagonally upward if you push the control stick up... And go straight when the control stick is pushed to the sides or is neutral.

 

[LunchPolice]

You know, this conversation seems uncomfortably aggressive when the topic is a cartoon wolf who looks like a biker and shoots lasers pistols.

I think Wolf's moveset is fine. Yes his moves have the same premise as Fox's. But his moves aren't necessarily useful in the same situations or anything. Like... I don't think I need to say this since I'm on a Smash Bros forum, but they work way differently. His lasers can't be walked through. Just thrusting the gun forward in order to shoot is like, a seperate attack. His side-b goes diagonally up, so... eh, I'm just stating the obvious.

Basically he has a really fun moveset and I think it's different enough to Fox to not be considered cloney. He just needs a different final smash and maybe his own down-b. There are other characters that need declonification MUCH more than Wolf. Like Ganondorf, Toon Link, Falco...

 

[SmashChu]

I want to see Wolf's Side+B improved. Instead of always going diagonally upward, he can go diagonally downward if you push the control stick down and diagonally upward if you push the control stick up... And go straight when the control stick is pushed to the sides or is neutral.

I don't think that would work with his overall character design. He is suppose to be a riskier character overall. The purpose of the move is it's suppose to be really strong but hard to land (for obvious reasons). It spike for some reason, which is weird as it's not that great of a recovery method and Falco's does the same thing on the whole way though.

The way to improve that move is to make it hurt. If it did that, then people might try and use it as a ace in the whole and it would be risky as it's hard to land.

 

[OmegaRS]

I would like to see Wolf's moves change a little aesthetically. Down-B is fine, but for Up and Side-B I'd like to see him use his Jet Pack rather than have the auras that Fox and Falco have. For Side-B, put him in a pouncing position and have him grab an opponent and slam them to the ground similar to Ganondorf with his Flame Choke when done in the air. Keep the angled thrust of course.

For his Final Smash, I was actually thinking of the same idea that was mentioned earlier in this thread about having the Star Wolf team light up the stage. Of course this could slightly conflict with my desire to have Leon as a playable character to rival Falco, but in order to get rid of the Landwolfen, sacrifices need to be made.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I like the idea of a special that starts from a pouncing position, just on the verdict that it would seem more wolf-like.

 

[OmegaRS]

Oh yeah and one other thing that someone mentioned earlier was that Wolf has a machine gun in one of his Assault artworks. I think it would be cool to make him have a burst fire laser blaster that shoots rapid 3 round bursts about as fast as his bayonet blaster fires now. The shots wouldn't all be straight forward, they would spread out forward, up, and down.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Definitely agree on the jetpack idea. Nice. I never really considered it, I've just thought "he shouldn't have the Falco/Fox up-b, but what could he have?"

 

[Diddy Kong]

Side B could become an aerial grab attack I think yeah.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Side B could become an aerial grab attack I think yeah.

Like Ganondorf's?

What I like about Wolf's is that, unlike the Fox/Falco side-b, it spikes(?) them.

 

[OmegaRS]

Like Ganondorf's?

What I like about Wolf's is that, unlike the Fox/Falco side-b, it spikes(?) them.

What could happen is that they keep the "sweet-spot" aspect and depending on which point during the special Wolf hits the opponent would determine what happens. If he hits the opponent sometime between the beginning and end of the pounce, he would just do a quick spike and finish the special. If Wolf were to hit the opponent at the very end of the pounce, he would grab the opponent and slam them downwards (While still holding them).

Another idea, instead of fixing the glitch that causes Wolf's "Scarring" technique, they would be very cool in my book if they actually implemented it into Wolf's regular gameplay. Of course, Side special would still be a good recovery move to grab onto ledges, but what if they added in the option to press the Special button again as soon as you grab the ledge (I'm talking like less than a second) and Wolf would grab the ledge, pull himself forward, and continue his pounce for a short distance, tackling anyone standing next to the ledge? If no one was standing next to the ledge, Wolf would roll forward into a standing position, accomplishing scarring's purpose of canceling landing lag.

That of course is a suggestion that could use some improvement, but we know they remove exploitables such as wavedashing, so scarring might not carry over to SSB4 unless they add an option like this one. What do you all think?

 

[chriscapnz]

wolfman<3

 

[GetBentSaggy]

wolfman<3

manwolf 3<

 

[Bowserlick]

We can just replace Wolf with Andross.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We can just replace Wolf with Andross.

No

 

[FalKoopa]

Replace wolf with andross?

No thanks.

 

[Shorts]

No replacements will be necessary. Add Krystal/4th character along with the rest, or not at all. It's just how it's going to be.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

I don't think they'll add a 4th character, especially when the other 3 are very similar to each other (although Wolf isn't a clone, Fox/Falco are).

 

[x kharmah x]

i would like to see wolf in the next smash game as long as he gets a complete overhaul on his move set their is enough clones in smash

 

[Swamp Sensei]

i would like to see wolf in the next smash game as long as he gets a complete overhaul on his move set their is enough clones in smash

Wolf isn't a clone.

 

[FalKoopa]

Wolf isn't a clone.

Beginner's perception I suppose. He'll figure it out soon enough.

 

[x kharmah x]

Wolf isn't a clone.

basically his moves were just tweaked versions of foxs moves up B was like fox fire with a kick and so on and all of them had that irritating ass land master tank

 

[Swamp Sensei]

basically his moves were just tweaked versions of foxs moves up B was like fox fire with a kick and so on and all of them had that irritating *** land master tank

And yet his normals, smashes, aerials and throws are all unique. He is mostly a unique character.

Even then his Neutral and Side B are so different that they are barely comparable to Fox's moves.

Wolf and Lucas are more unique then copies. They should not be considered clones.

 

[FalKoopa]

basically his moves were just tweaked versions of foxs moves up B was like fox fire with a kick and so on and all of them had that irritating *** land master tank

But his non-special attacks all different.

I know, the special attacks attract the most attention, but you should look beyond them.

 

[x kharmah x]

But his non-special attacks all different.

I know, the special attacks attract the most attention, but you should look beyond them.

ok hes not a clone

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And yet his normals, smashes, aerials and throws are all unique. He is mostly a unique character.

Even then his Neutral and Side B are so different that they are barely comparable to Fox's moves.

Wolf and Lucas are more unique then copies. They should not be considered clones.

I guess you could say that they're pseudo-clones, being similar with some attacks, while at the same time, actually having unique attacks.

Wolf may be considered to be a pseudo-clone with his specials and Final Smash, but his standard attacks are much different from that of Fox's and Falco's.

 

[Ultinarok]

Not only is Wolf pretty much entirely unique, but Falco is too pretty much.

B: Fox is rapid fire, no hitstun. Falco is semi-auto, medium hitstun. Wolf is single shot, high hitstun, and counts as melee attack.
Bside: Fox is medium distance, knocks upward. Falco is longer distance, spikes down. Wolf is angled up, and spikes or has high knockback at the end of the animation.
UpB: Fox reaches medium distance, single hit. Falco is short distance, multi-hit. Wolf is low charge time, multi-hit with high knockback at the end.
DownB: Fox holds his, increases knockback. Falco throws his as a projectile, increases knockback but can't be held. Wolf comes out fastest, doubles projectile speed, not knockback.

Landmaster: Fox's: balanced in power, traction, mobility, duration. Falco's: low traction and power, high mobility (especially in the air), average duration. Wolf's: High power, traction and mobility on ground and air, but short duration.

All of Wolf's A moves and throws are unique. Falco's jab, side tilt (roundhouse kick, prolonged longer than Fox's quick snap kick), up tilt, side smash, nair, fair, bair (angled side kick unlike Fox's quick straight side kick, prolonged longer than Fox's, but slower and generally less knockback), dair (quicker spin, hits one strong blow unlike many blows like Fox's. Spikes.) and Uair (kick is angled differently. Fox is completely vertical in axis, Falco kicks more diagonally) are all different. They also have completely different attributes as fighters, and specialize in different fighting styles (Wolf is stronger, heavier and approaches well, Falco racks damage easily and is difficult to approach/campy, and Fox is speedy and combo-friendly).

I play the space animals nearly exclusively, and if one more person says they're clones, I'm going to crush them with a landmaster. All three of them.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Despite being visually similar Fox's down-b and Wolfs down-b operate completely differently.

In competitive play Fox uses his down-b to hover in the air. It's used to mix up the timing of his aerial attacks and recoverys. Wolfs doesn't stop his momentum in the air, and he instead plummets like a rock when he uses it. However, because it has much more invincibility frames and a larger hitbox it's used more as a reversal to get opponents offa him and break combos.

Oh. Also Fox's reflector starts reflecting quicker, but, that's kinda trivial.

Gonna be really bummed if they change it and pander to people that don't understand the differences.

EDIT: Lol. Ultinarok posted at like the exact same time as me. =p

 

[Ultinarok]

Bottom line, Wolf is fine, minus his Final Smash. Falco needs more a revamp than Wolf. Wolf is unique enough to fight nothing like Fox, and yet similar enough to be his rival (and thus using rival technology that somewhat mirrors Fox's). Falco having the same specials as Fox also makes plenty of sense considering they're on the same team and would therefore share the exact same tech. Nonetheless, I wouldn't be opposed to more differentiated animations at least. And an Arwing based FS for Falco.

My biggest fear is that Wolf won't return due to a lack of recent Starfox games and people complaining that he's a "clone".

 

[CHOMPY]

I don't think Wolf needs to comeback because of the fact that his moves are too similar to Fox and Falco. Why have 3 characters that basically do the same thing when you could have had another character with a completely different move set?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Falco's the one whose moves are the most similar to Fox out of the two.

 

[Ultinarok]

I don't think Wolf needs to comeback because of the fact that his moves are too similar to Fox and Falco. Why have 3 characters that basically do the same thing when you could have had another character with a completely different move set?

If by similar, you mean completely different outside of Reflector and Landmaster, then sure.

Seriously though, the only people who think he's similar are people who are either trolling, have never played as or against him, or just don't understand a damn thing about Smash Bros. Please don't be one of those people.

 

[Carlo_H.Luz]

He is a better rep than Falco. Period. I'm a StarFox fan and I would love to see tons of SF reps. But lets be honest. Sakurai stated that there wont be signitficatevely more characters than brawl. And Falco fits better as a Fox costume (hope to see this kind of chacacter integration, like peach and daisy, to gain more slots). There are tons of falco users out there, like from all other characters. But Krystal and Andross would have more differential movesets. If this were my desition. StarFox:

Fox
Wolf
Krystal
Andross

:0

Dreaming is free!!