Crystanium
Smash Hero
Purpose of This Thread
In the past there were two threads that went on for quite some time. It has been at least five to six months since these threads have been active. One involved the characters of the Super Smash Bros. series to go by how they worked based on in-game, while the other took a far more realistic approach and discussed what it would be like if these characters were actually real. While the former did permit some realism, the latter only permitted that which was scientifically feasible.
In this thread, because a canonical perspective of which character would be the most powerful has been done, I have decided to expand a bit on this. Instead of restricting the characters to the SSB series only, I thought that maybe this could become a bit more interesting if characters from other video game companies were added. This will be strictly video game characters, meaning that no character from literature, films, table-tops, or whatever are not allowed here. However, if a character started out as a video game character and there is also literature, it can be accepted if it is canon.
Using the Strongest Incarnation
This thread will consist of the characters in their strongest incarnations. This disregards composite forms and direct sequels. By this I mean that no character will be given every single item or upgrade from every game within the series. For example, Super Metroid occurs immediately after Metroid II: Return of Samus. Since Samus does not start off with the upgrades from RoS to SM, she will be permitted only her SM upgrades. However, it is permitted that a character, as long as he/she is the selfsame character, will be allowed to use techniques he/she used in previous titles, depending on how this works.
To offer an example of this, before Metroid: Zero Mission was released, Samus said in Metroid Fusion that she was taught by the Dachora and Etecoons to shinespark and wall-jump. Without MZM present, this would mean that prior to SM, Samus would not be allowed to shinespark or wall-jump. She would only be granted this if the SM or post-SM incarnation was used. At the same time, we never see Samus use SenseMove in any of the Metroid games, with the exception of the Metroid Prime trilogy, which used this in cut-scenes. Were we to use any incarnation, Samus would be permitted this ability.
All of the characters will not be based off of their most recent incarnation, unless the most recent incarnation is the strongest. The reason for this is because some characters may have been powerful in one game, but the most recent installment has reduced the character to a weaker state. For this reason, we will only be using the strongest form of every character. Since I do not know who the strongest character of every game is, or ever was, I will need some assistance in figuring this out.
In order to figure out which character is the strongest incarnation, this will have to be done from an overall perspective. Being very powerful is not simply from strength or firepower alone, but also speed and durability. If the character is a selfsame character, he or she will be granted all the feats he or she has ever performed from previous and post games, should the most powerful incarnation be in the middle of a list of games. For example, if Samus never showed the ability to use Overblast in SM, but she can use it in Metroid: Other M, she can use it, regardless of which incarnation we use, as it is unlikely or unknown that she could perform this technique in the previous games. Game limitations are not proof of inability.
The Folly of Gameplay
Speed
One problem with game play is determining the speed of a character, or the reaction time. Some may think that because a character can dodge a laser in-game, that it means that the character has nanosecond RT. Some even think that RT is equal to movement speed, although this isn't true. Lasers in-game do not travel at 186,282 miles per second, and even then, characters who run at supersonic speeds or higher do not demonstrate such during game play. For this reason, it can be difficult to figure out how fast a character can run.
If a character has certain items that allow him or her to move at faster speed than before, we can accept this. Determining the exact speed is really the only problem. We may offer the lowest denominator, meaning that a character running at supersonic speeds can run as low as Mach 1.2, and the highest denominator, such as Mach 5. Some have tried to demonstrate that Link, with the Pegasus Boots in The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, could run well over 200 mph. Although the number for this is from the fact that arrows today can move around 200 mph, it doesn’t really tell us how fast Link can run.
As noted before about lasers during in-game, if a character outruns that, does it mean the character moves faster-than-light? Hardly. It only means that during in-game. However, there can be an exception. Consider the following. Let’s assume a character is scripted to outrun an avalanche during the game. He/She will be allowed to come up with a certain speed range, depending on how fast avalanches go. Since those can move between 60 – 80 mph, it may be assumed the character can achieve at least the lowest denominator, 60 mph.
Durability
It should be noted that game mechanics are meant for the intent of an enjoyable game. For this reason, things like hit points will not be permitted. HP often is confused with the idea that a character has superhuman durability, even when such is not the case, nor is there any reason to accept it. There are a few exceptions where a character's durability does not need to be questioned as nothing more than a game mechanic or simply HP. See the list below.
Type: Body armor
Featured in: Grand Theft Auto; Batman: Arkham Asylum
Description: In games, such as the ones listed, body armor is seen as health. However, in reality, the only protection a character like Niko Bellic or Batman would have is where the body armor is protecting them. They may be able to take a few bullets, knives, and possibly explosives if they get out of the way, these types of weaponry would kill them if they were hit in a vital area.
Type: Powered armor
Featured in: Halo; Metroid
Description: Characters with powered armor have a form-fitting energy shield that protects them. Underneath is another hard exterior, often made of some type of alloy. Unlike body armor, these characters usually are able to withstand more impactful attacks or injuries that would otherwise kill them.
Type: Magic armor
Featured in: The Legend of Zelda
Description: Link has had different types of magic armor. Some are called "Magic Armor," while others go by different names, such as Nayru's Love or the Cane of Byrna. Like the powered armor, a character with magic armor is protected either by a form-fitting barrier, or by something that sticks out like Nayru's Love. Often, the kinds of attacks these characters are protected from are physical attacks.
Type: Psychic shield
Featured in: Metroid; Mother; Pokémon
Description: U-Mos from Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, as well as Fumbleye in MOM are protected by some kind of psychic shield. In the Mother series, Ninten, Ness, and Lucas can protect themselves with different types of shields. And of course, in Pokémon, characters like Mr. Mime or Mewtwo can create psychic barriers. Although in-game they may have reduced damage, based on the anime, they don't receive damage.
Type: Dense skin
Featured in: Megaman; Metroid; The Legend of Zelda
Description: Megaman's body is made of some kind of metal, while Metroid Prime has a durable carapace, and Gorons have a tough, rocky exterior.
Type: Bioelectric field
Featured in: Metroid; The Legend of Zelda
Description: The Chozo Ghosts are invulnerable to ice, electric, and plasma attacks, thanks to their bioelectric field. With the Zora Mask, Link can become a Zora and also produce some kind of bioelectric field.
All of these are demonstrated to offer you an idea of what is permissible, and does not need to be questioned if it is a game mechanic or not. Some characters have it easier than others when it comes to these things, either because it's so blatantly obvious, or because it has been confirmed.
Settings
We will be discussing each characters strength, speed, durability, and other feats that they have performed. If a character is unable to offer any of the first three, then this counts against them as the most powerful character. There is always one thing that can turn the tide, however. So if a character is lacks strength, speed, or durability, but has an ability to stop time or remove his or her opponent from the battlefield, that character can end up, and most likely will win.
All characters will be placed in a neutral area. Gravity is assumed to be standard, much like Earth's. Game limitations, such as being able to destroy certain objects, while not being able to destroy other certain objects of the same composition are ignored. For example, Samus can destroy a chunk of rock with her Charge Beam in Magmoor Caverns, but that same kind of material from which the rock was destroyed is not even affected.
Outside Assistance
Outside assistance is not permitted if it is sentient, i.e., conscious. This refers not just to human beings, but also artificial intelligence, gods, and the like. The only exception to this rule are Pokémon Trainer, Popo and Nana, and Olimar and his Pikmin, as they need each other in order to battle.
Inherent Abilities
Pokémon will be granted the ability to use any TMs or HMs they are able to learn. Any character who has a traint that he or she is capable of doing without the use of items or upgrades can be transfered over, as long as it is the selfsame character. An example would be Mario or Samus being able to wall-jump, as this is an ability a human can learn.
Acquired Items/Upgrades
This refers to items or upgrades a character not just acquires, but also possesses during in-game and can be used in-game. This is excluded, however, if a character requires another person in order to use an acquired ability. An example would be that Samus does not get the Phazon Beam as she did in Metroid Prime, since she required a pool of Phazon to use it.
Let the Battle Begin!
Now we must start off with two characters that are at least somewhat equal so it can be a fair battle. Who do you think we should use to begin this thread?
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Omega Ridley vs. Perfect Chaos
Strength: The ability to lift an object over one's head.
Speed: The ability to travel distances within a certain amount of time.
Durability: The ability to withstand injury.
Winner: Omega Ridley
In the past there were two threads that went on for quite some time. It has been at least five to six months since these threads have been active. One involved the characters of the Super Smash Bros. series to go by how they worked based on in-game, while the other took a far more realistic approach and discussed what it would be like if these characters were actually real. While the former did permit some realism, the latter only permitted that which was scientifically feasible.
In this thread, because a canonical perspective of which character would be the most powerful has been done, I have decided to expand a bit on this. Instead of restricting the characters to the SSB series only, I thought that maybe this could become a bit more interesting if characters from other video game companies were added. This will be strictly video game characters, meaning that no character from literature, films, table-tops, or whatever are not allowed here. However, if a character started out as a video game character and there is also literature, it can be accepted if it is canon.
Using the Strongest Incarnation
This thread will consist of the characters in their strongest incarnations. This disregards composite forms and direct sequels. By this I mean that no character will be given every single item or upgrade from every game within the series. For example, Super Metroid occurs immediately after Metroid II: Return of Samus. Since Samus does not start off with the upgrades from RoS to SM, she will be permitted only her SM upgrades. However, it is permitted that a character, as long as he/she is the selfsame character, will be allowed to use techniques he/she used in previous titles, depending on how this works.
To offer an example of this, before Metroid: Zero Mission was released, Samus said in Metroid Fusion that she was taught by the Dachora and Etecoons to shinespark and wall-jump. Without MZM present, this would mean that prior to SM, Samus would not be allowed to shinespark or wall-jump. She would only be granted this if the SM or post-SM incarnation was used. At the same time, we never see Samus use SenseMove in any of the Metroid games, with the exception of the Metroid Prime trilogy, which used this in cut-scenes. Were we to use any incarnation, Samus would be permitted this ability.
All of the characters will not be based off of their most recent incarnation, unless the most recent incarnation is the strongest. The reason for this is because some characters may have been powerful in one game, but the most recent installment has reduced the character to a weaker state. For this reason, we will only be using the strongest form of every character. Since I do not know who the strongest character of every game is, or ever was, I will need some assistance in figuring this out.
In order to figure out which character is the strongest incarnation, this will have to be done from an overall perspective. Being very powerful is not simply from strength or firepower alone, but also speed and durability. If the character is a selfsame character, he or she will be granted all the feats he or she has ever performed from previous and post games, should the most powerful incarnation be in the middle of a list of games. For example, if Samus never showed the ability to use Overblast in SM, but she can use it in Metroid: Other M, she can use it, regardless of which incarnation we use, as it is unlikely or unknown that she could perform this technique in the previous games. Game limitations are not proof of inability.
The Folly of Gameplay
Speed
One problem with game play is determining the speed of a character, or the reaction time. Some may think that because a character can dodge a laser in-game, that it means that the character has nanosecond RT. Some even think that RT is equal to movement speed, although this isn't true. Lasers in-game do not travel at 186,282 miles per second, and even then, characters who run at supersonic speeds or higher do not demonstrate such during game play. For this reason, it can be difficult to figure out how fast a character can run.
If a character has certain items that allow him or her to move at faster speed than before, we can accept this. Determining the exact speed is really the only problem. We may offer the lowest denominator, meaning that a character running at supersonic speeds can run as low as Mach 1.2, and the highest denominator, such as Mach 5. Some have tried to demonstrate that Link, with the Pegasus Boots in The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, could run well over 200 mph. Although the number for this is from the fact that arrows today can move around 200 mph, it doesn’t really tell us how fast Link can run.
As noted before about lasers during in-game, if a character outruns that, does it mean the character moves faster-than-light? Hardly. It only means that during in-game. However, there can be an exception. Consider the following. Let’s assume a character is scripted to outrun an avalanche during the game. He/She will be allowed to come up with a certain speed range, depending on how fast avalanches go. Since those can move between 60 – 80 mph, it may be assumed the character can achieve at least the lowest denominator, 60 mph.
Durability
It should be noted that game mechanics are meant for the intent of an enjoyable game. For this reason, things like hit points will not be permitted. HP often is confused with the idea that a character has superhuman durability, even when such is not the case, nor is there any reason to accept it. There are a few exceptions where a character's durability does not need to be questioned as nothing more than a game mechanic or simply HP. See the list below.
Type: Body armor
Featured in: Grand Theft Auto; Batman: Arkham Asylum
Description: In games, such as the ones listed, body armor is seen as health. However, in reality, the only protection a character like Niko Bellic or Batman would have is where the body armor is protecting them. They may be able to take a few bullets, knives, and possibly explosives if they get out of the way, these types of weaponry would kill them if they were hit in a vital area.
Type: Powered armor
Featured in: Halo; Metroid
Description: Characters with powered armor have a form-fitting energy shield that protects them. Underneath is another hard exterior, often made of some type of alloy. Unlike body armor, these characters usually are able to withstand more impactful attacks or injuries that would otherwise kill them.
Type: Magic armor
Featured in: The Legend of Zelda
Description: Link has had different types of magic armor. Some are called "Magic Armor," while others go by different names, such as Nayru's Love or the Cane of Byrna. Like the powered armor, a character with magic armor is protected either by a form-fitting barrier, or by something that sticks out like Nayru's Love. Often, the kinds of attacks these characters are protected from are physical attacks.
Type: Psychic shield
Featured in: Metroid; Mother; Pokémon
Description: U-Mos from Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, as well as Fumbleye in MOM are protected by some kind of psychic shield. In the Mother series, Ninten, Ness, and Lucas can protect themselves with different types of shields. And of course, in Pokémon, characters like Mr. Mime or Mewtwo can create psychic barriers. Although in-game they may have reduced damage, based on the anime, they don't receive damage.
Type: Dense skin
Featured in: Megaman; Metroid; The Legend of Zelda
Description: Megaman's body is made of some kind of metal, while Metroid Prime has a durable carapace, and Gorons have a tough, rocky exterior.
Type: Bioelectric field
Featured in: Metroid; The Legend of Zelda
Description: The Chozo Ghosts are invulnerable to ice, electric, and plasma attacks, thanks to their bioelectric field. With the Zora Mask, Link can become a Zora and also produce some kind of bioelectric field.
All of these are demonstrated to offer you an idea of what is permissible, and does not need to be questioned if it is a game mechanic or not. Some characters have it easier than others when it comes to these things, either because it's so blatantly obvious, or because it has been confirmed.
Settings
We will be discussing each characters strength, speed, durability, and other feats that they have performed. If a character is unable to offer any of the first three, then this counts against them as the most powerful character. There is always one thing that can turn the tide, however. So if a character is lacks strength, speed, or durability, but has an ability to stop time or remove his or her opponent from the battlefield, that character can end up, and most likely will win.
All characters will be placed in a neutral area. Gravity is assumed to be standard, much like Earth's. Game limitations, such as being able to destroy certain objects, while not being able to destroy other certain objects of the same composition are ignored. For example, Samus can destroy a chunk of rock with her Charge Beam in Magmoor Caverns, but that same kind of material from which the rock was destroyed is not even affected.
Outside Assistance
Outside assistance is not permitted if it is sentient, i.e., conscious. This refers not just to human beings, but also artificial intelligence, gods, and the like. The only exception to this rule are Pokémon Trainer, Popo and Nana, and Olimar and his Pikmin, as they need each other in order to battle.
Inherent Abilities
Pokémon will be granted the ability to use any TMs or HMs they are able to learn. Any character who has a traint that he or she is capable of doing without the use of items or upgrades can be transfered over, as long as it is the selfsame character. An example would be Mario or Samus being able to wall-jump, as this is an ability a human can learn.
Acquired Items/Upgrades
This refers to items or upgrades a character not just acquires, but also possesses during in-game and can be used in-game. This is excluded, however, if a character requires another person in order to use an acquired ability. An example would be that Samus does not get the Phazon Beam as she did in Metroid Prime, since she required a pool of Phazon to use it.
Let the Battle Begin!
Now we must start off with two characters that are at least somewhat equal so it can be a fair battle. Who do you think we should use to begin this thread?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Omega Ridley vs. Perfect Chaos
Strength: The ability to lift an object over one's head.
- Ridley was able to survive on planet Zebes just fine, and is in fact a native of Zebes, according to the original Metroid manual. Since the mass of Zebes is 4.8 trillion teratons, and it's diameter is 11,700 km., it is likely that Ridley can lift many tons.
- It is unknown how much weight Perfect Chaos can lift, if any.
Speed: The ability to travel distances within a certain amount of time.
- Although Omega Ridley's flight speed is unknown, he was able to outrun and escape from Samus as she flew her Gunship during a chase to planet Tallon IV.
- By comparison, Perfect Chaos moves slower.
Durability: The ability to withstand injury.
- Omega Ridley is simply Ridley returning to a more organic form after being integrated with cybernetics, at which time he was referred to as Meta Ridley. Before Samus became the famous bounty hunter, Ridley has demonstrated several feats. In the manga, Ridley managed to survive the explosion of his ship, although he was at some distance. He was caught in the blast, nevertheless. In facing off against Samus, he was attacked by the Hunter's beam weaponry, such as the ice and wave beams.
During Metroid Prime, Ridley's main weakness was his mouth and chest. However, the impressive thing about Ridley's durability, or at least survivability, is that he was knocked right off the Artifact Temple. Upon hitting the ground, a huge explosion occurs, and Ridley manages to survive this once again. During his encounter against Samus in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, he drops down a shaft that is 16,000 meters long, which is equal to 10 miles. Again, he manages to survive.
Upon the battle against Samus again as Omega Ridley, he becomes resistant to all kinds of attacks with the exception of the Nova Beam and Hyper Beam. At this point, he disintegrates into nothing, but still manages to survive up to the point of Super Metroid, where he finally dies. Although in Metroid: Other M, Ridley is a clone, it is no doubt possible that the true Ridley is capable of taking plasma attacks, as well as creating a protective barrier.
- Perfect Chaos may be durable to numerous attacks, at least based on his watery form. Because of his watery state, he may possess a few weaknesses, such as extreme heat, extreme cold, or electricity. One of Perfect Chaos' main problem here, however, is his brain. Unfortunately, it is exposed to attacks, making him not very durable by comparison.
Winner: Omega Ridley
