Social C. Falcon Social

[Captain Smuckers]

I did this recently, no regrets.

yet thats nice

 

[Cpt.Love]

Other characters in this game were only made to create combo diversity for the Captain.

 

[Cowsaymeow]

Does it matter much if I use the control stick for aerials or the c stick much? Stopped playing years ago and basically back to square one again

 

[ELStalky]

Does it matter much if I use the control stick for aerials or the c stick much? Stopped playing years ago and basically back to square one again

Using the control stick makes it harder or impossible to do an aerial in one direction while moving in the opposite, this can be relevant in certain situations.

 

[gravy]

You should definitely c stick.

 

[Cowsaymeow]

Gotcha. I'll have to start changing how I do aerials then, thanks!

Also, is there any Falcon players going to PATS 3 (Its in Houston, Texas)? I'd love to play Friendlies with some Falcon players to learn some stuff

 

[Zhea]

Gravy do you claw for instant uairs? I have them down with jump a stick, but it hurts my air control.

 

[gravy]

Yah I claw. I hold my controller so that my thumb is able to use the c stick, a button, and b button without moving at all, my pointer finger is on y, middle finger on z, and ring finger on the shoulder. The idea behind the way I hold it is that I never have to move my fingers at all, so stuff like instant uair is really easy for me.

 

[Zhea]

Hnmmg... I really should learn claw, but I would take a big hit in the mean time.

 

[Boat Mode]

I didn't want to learn how to claw, but for stuff like instant uairs (and pretty much anything on the c-stick) I taught myself to hit the cstick w/ the base of my thumb. I have particularly large hands so idk if this is possible for everyone.

 

[TerryJ]

I didn't want to learn how to claw, but for stuff like instant uairs (and pretty much anything on the c-stick) I taught myself to hit the cstick w/ the base of my thumb. I have particularly large hands so idk if this is possible for everyone.

My hands aren't very large but that's pretty much what I do. I tried to learn the claw but it just didn't feel right after so many years of playing the controller the default way. Currently though I do (or try to do) instant U-Airs with the Y button and the control stick. During Falcon's Jumpsquat I buffer the control stick up and then hit A.

 

[TobiasXK]

Gotcha. I'll have to start changing how I do aerials then, thanks!

Also, is there any Falcon players going to PATS 3 (Its in Houston, Texas)? I'd love to play Friendlies with some Falcon players to learn some stuff

houston has two really good falcons, Mojo and TSC, so you should be able to get some exp.

 

[Cowsaymeow]

Sounds good Tobias. I actually found the melee fb group and talked to a lot of others for some
Ditto practice.

Also I'm not sure if this is the place, but I'm a little confused with the terminology posted around here. Mainly things like DD, WD, etc. Not sure if these are Falcon specific stuff or not.

And besides re learning shffl, what else should I start learning? Wave dash, moonwalk, instant u-airs are what I can think of but I'm not sure if those things are main things I should learn. Then I have one more noob question, after I grab someone, what is a general move I should do to extend a combo from my grab when I do a down grab versus an up grab

 

[Twinkles]

DD = dash dance

WD = wave dash

relearning you shffl's and being able to mix up your timings on them are a must
wave-dashes/gentlemans/insta-uairs are all also high priority tasks
moonwalking is a for-fun thing, don't bother if you feel like you have better things to work on

combo's all depend on the matchup. mostly uair for floaties like peach/puff, nair and uair for marth/sheik, and tech-chase stuff on fast-fallers (fox, falco, falcon). this is melee bro, there is no one easy answer to encompass countless combo situations in the game. play around some more and come back when you can ask something a lil more specific (or, alternatively, watch a LOT of vids. new-age falcons i recommend to watch are hax, s2j, and lord).

 

[Cowsaymeow]

DD = dash dance

WD = wave dash

relearning you shffl's and being able to mix up your timings on them are a must
wave-dashes/gentlemans/insta-uairs are all also high priority tasks
moonwalking is a for-fun thing, don't bother if you feel like you have better things to work on

combo's all depend on the matchup. mostly uair for floaties like peach/puff, nair and uair for marth/sheik, and tech-chase stuff on fast-fallers (fox, falco, falcon). this is melee bro, there is no one easy answer to encompass countless combo situations in the game. play around some more and come back when you can ask something a lil more specific (or, alternatively, watch a LOT of vids. new-age falcons i recommend to watch are hax, s2j, and lord).

ah gotcha now. Also i've been reading this a bit more and I keep reading the word Spacies. I guess this means characters who are more position dependent and keep their space around you to give them the advantage? Not completely sure

And gotcha. I'll start doing my research then with newer falcon players

and last extreme noob question as I forgot all the terminology. Are Tech chases just chasing down enemies with your tech or something..?

 

[Coffeeblack]

Spacies refer to fox and falco (space animals)

Tech chasing refers to following someones tech option and punishing

 

[ShrieK1295]

Hnmmg... I really should learn claw, but I would take a big hit in the mean time.

I tried to learn to claw but it really wasn't my thing. After being in the same situation as you, I learned to do it with my palm. You might consider trying the same.

 

[Cowsaymeow]

When it comes to Edgeguarding in general as Falcon what moves are good for doing so? I think the Dsmash sounds good with good punish but I think if I miss I'm screwed.

If I have to be more specific for edge guarding, what should I be doing when it comes to Spacies and Marth players for edge guards?

Also im guessing Up B is pretty much the only way to get back to the edge? Unless you're to the side, then I assume Side B

 

[Twinkles]

why does dsmash sound good? you put a foot out and you cover roll/normal getup from the ledge, but do you cover the option where your opponent up-b's or side-b's into the ledge? or onto the platform above you?

there's no strict answer for edgeguarding, there's just a lot of situations you should be aware of. if marth is recovering from afar and is using side-b to slow his descent, try sniping him out of a side-b with a bair. if marth is low enough, try a marth-killer edgeguard (lightshield edgehog) or stomp the ledge.

you can try sniping space animals out of there jumps with a soft short-hop-kee offstage. spacies have a lot of recovery options above stage level, so they're be eager to jump up to get a safer recovery. if they're below the stage, you can use knee, utilt, stomp, bair, whatever works

i almost never use side-b to recover. at least not to avoid getting edgeguarded. at best you might surprise your opponent, but really it's got awful distance and if your opponent intercepts it by just jumping out and getting hit, it's very likely they'll just meteor cancel it and live while you fall to your death like a buster

get smart with using up-b's awesome horizontal mobility, dj grabbing the ledge, and suprising your opponent every now and then with a dj aerial or a dj airdodge

 

[Roneblaster]

why cant I moonwalk on new white controllers?

 

[Zhea]

They Are extra stiff and require more working in. I would suggest serious hax dash and dd grinding to warm it up.

 

[TerryJ]

When it comes to Edgeguarding in general as Falcon what moves are good for doing so? I think the Dsmash sounds good with good punish but I think if I miss I'm screwed.

Down Smash can be used to cover a couple options on the ledge but in general isn't used a whole lot. Spacies have a fairly short getup roll (after being knocked down) so if they roll into the ledge you can get them with a Down Smash. There are usually better options though.

If I have to be more specific for edge guarding, what should I be doing when it comes to Spacies and Marth players for edge guards?

Against Marth you can do an angled shield at the ledge as they try to recover with their Up B. By angling your shield down and towards the ledge you'll fall off and grab the ledge leaving Marth to fall to his death. More about that here.

Against Spacies you have quite a few options. If they do their UpB too close to the ledge you can drop off the ledge, jump and hit them with an up air. If you know when and where they're going to do their SideB you can check that with a Knee. I have a much easier time dealing with spacies than I do Marth personally.

Also im guessing Up B is pretty much the only way to get back to the edge? Unless you're to the side, then I assume Side B

Yeah, Falcon's recovery isn't the greatest. Once you use your UpB your trajectory is reeaaaly obvious so you have to get creative with it. Try baiting your opponent into thinking you're going to land on the stage and the fade back at the last second to catch the ledge. With enough practice you can ledge cancel your UpB on platforms but if your opponent knows you're going to do this you will get hit.

On stages like Yoshi's you can use your walljump to save you by jumping off the wall then doing your UpB. Since the ledges on Yoshi's are slanted you CAN use your Raptor Boost (SideB) to land on the stage but if your opponent is too close to the ledge and your Raptor Boost connects you'll more often than not fall to your death.

In general, Falcon's recovery isn't the best but with enough creativity you have the tools to survive.

 

[DuckPimp]

why cant I moonwalk on new white controllers?

zheas answer is the only answer i can offer- i havent really had issues moonwalking on controllers since i switched from the one i learned to moonwalk on... the control stick was all ****ed up and i kept trying and trying to moonwalk and it didnt work. then my friend tried my controller and was like this thing is so ****

so i got a new one and ive been able to moonwalk ever since LOL

 

[DuckPimp]

I have two topics of discussion that I want to bring up regarding guaranteed things-
1. Reaction in the neutral game (getting that first hit/grab is guaranteed in certain situations)
2. Building a comprehensive list of things that Falcon can always do (doesnt matter if things seem obvious, like shieldgrabbing poorly-spaced aerials/ kneeing certain laggy moves oos)/ things that never work that are done constantly (or things that people do that work sometimes but only work when the opponent sucks)

Knowing how to get in is obviously extremely important, and if you make a risky approach it is pretty easy to wall falcon out hard. Learning to space around your opponent while watching them for that juicy opening can and will help people in the neutral game (and by extension the combo/techchase game).
-Things like spacing around a grounded peach out of dashattack range waiting for a dashattack or turnip-pull to punish etc

I know that reads and risky plays are necessary, but the idea has been brought up multiple times that there are many guaranteed (or at the very least, safe and option coverage-y) options for falcon that are not always being taken advantage of.
-"obvious" things like stomps on fox at ~50 give you knees and stuff, or spacing/shffling and jabbing to avoid shieldgrabs are still valued in this discussion. A lot of times I see newer/inexperienced players miss out on punishing so many bad habits that would help their game immensely, or doing things because it works against bad player X that wont work against any better players.

Im not trying to develop a mindset where we're afraid to try new things, merely help assist in the collection of information of falcons options and punishes to help players become more solid so they can improve and experiment.

I'll try and revise later, cuz im sure atm this is really incoherent and rambling, but hopefully my intention will come through

 

[gravy]

I'm really interested in oos options specifically. Can we knee sheiks dsmash oos? Or wavedash grab it? Do people realize how good up b oos can be?

 

[ELStalky]

2. Building a comprehensive list of things that Falcon can always do (doesnt matter if things seem obvious, like shieldgrabbing poorly-spaced aerials/ kneeing certain laggy moves oos)/ things that never work that are done constantly (or things that people do that work sometimes but only work when the opponent sucks)

Please not on page one hundred something of this thread, makes it almost useless since hard to find.

Do people realize how good up b oos can be?

It really isn't. If you look at the other options you usually have something faster and better. It hits (grabs) on frame 13, in comparison you have aerials with 6, 7, 10, 14 and 16 respectively, so only knee and stomp are slower, and aerials can actually lead into other hits, which usually is out of the question for up-b.
I see about three legitimate uses for up-b as an attacking move:
1. Stylish off-stage finisher when you have no other way of hitting.
2. Grabbing people who shield on platforms above you.
3. Grabbing someone OOS who is shielding behind you (turnaround up-b).
All of those are situational and very risky because the punish on failed up-b can be devastating or in the first case you just die.

 

[gravy]

You're not accounting for jumpsquat when you consider his aerials out of shield, go ahead and add 5 frames to all of those aerials. This leaves you with 11, 12, 15, 19, and 21 frames. Now, the faxt that you dont have to jump for up b means that up b is now by far our fastest and farthest reaching move when trying to attack behind our shield. This is useful for many more situations then you're giving it credit for. What happens when a space animal utilts the back of your shield? 99.7% of them are just going to do it again. Up b beats that. Up b also beats a sheik at max range ftilting the back of your shield repeatedly. You can kill a fox at high percents if he usmashes your shield. There are a ton more examples, but I think I've proven my point. It's much better than you give it credit for. Let's also keep in mind that our two options that are faster than up b (instant uair and nair) tend to either be near impossible to hit on short characters (uair against fox) or crouch cancel able well past 10 l00 percent (nairs first hit.)

 

[gravy]

Also, the fact that you can either ledge cancel up b or escape to top plat on all stages but DL make it harder to punish than it should be.

 

[ELStalky]

Regardless of speed, i still doubt that the risk/reward ratio is going to cut it. Show me someone use this effectively at high level of play and i may change my mind...

 

[gravy]

It's not like it's our most god like option. But sometimes it's guarenteed, and it's useful for niche situations. The risk reward ratio is just fine when its guarenteed. How about I show you a situation where not using it got someone hit for no reason? I'm not trying to get in an argument over it, I'm just saying it should be used sometimes.

 

[DuckPimp]

Please not on page one hundred something of this thread, makes it almost useless since hard to find.

Yes, I agree and intend to compile it elsewhere, sorry if that was unclear

 

[Aggromidget]

Hey guys
What do we use this thread for?
I just wanna know if a post should be a new thread or in the "social".

 

[Zhea]

It's mostly a qna and discussion thread.

 

[Aggromidget]

It's mostly a qna and discussion thread.

That means every thread can belong in this thread!

 

[ELStalky]

Not quite, if you post frame data, strategies and guides those are hardly questions.

 

[KUSH.]

hax will you be at rom 6?

 

[Ziodyne]

someone tell me how to edgeguard falcon

i don't mean give me tips about what moves are good or nonsense like that

i want your whole god damn flow chart of how you edgeguard falcon, the more detailed the better

for instance, falcon is below the ledge trying to up-b, waveland to ledge and hog until he either dies or lands on stage, in which case stomp or knee to punish landing lag.

BUT if i was busy covering another option and he fakes me out and goes low and starts an up-b so that i probably won't reach the ledge quick enough, stay on stage and snipe him with utilt, short-hop fast-fall knee/bair offstage (possibly the option i have the worst time with, as i always **** up the timing somehow)

how to cover falcon's recovery options if they recover from the middle, or from up high, whether they falcon kick or not, etc.

 

[Equal]

I'm going to my second tournament saturday. I know a Peach main will be there, so can I get some advice on the MU? Don't worry, I'm about to hit up the index and see what I can dig up. But some advice would be appreciated!

 

[Ziodyne]

Don't worry, I'm about to hit up the index and see what I can dig up.

Good man.

Dthrow -> knee is your go-to kill setup on Peach at >70%. They can also lead to uairs at >30%, which can lead to nairs, regrabs, or more uairs, which means easy peasy combos that could easily lead to death.

At lower %, try uthrow, but be forewarned that a good Peach can wiggle out of hitstun and nair you if you're not careful. If you're at high%, this could mean that they'll kill you of off your own throw.

Space your dash-dances around her dash attack. If you see her running at you and you're sure she's going to go for a dash attack, shield and then do an OOS punish or just grab her. Careful with nair approaches as she can crouch-cancel those into down-smash or grab or some other silly stuff. Knee works great if you can space it well (either undershoot it a lot or overshoot it a lot), and stomp works if you see their crouch-cancel coming a mile away.

DO NOT JUMP AT PEACH ON PLATFORMS. A big noob-killing tactic that Peach has is dsmash on platforms, and if you jump into it you will most likely eat >40% from one dsmash. Unless you have a guaranteed combo or something, don't jump at her until after she throws out a dsmash and punish it (trust me, lots of Peach's can't resist not going for that ****, even though it's stupid and dumb and shouldn't work).

Kind of a hard MU without experience though, 'cause you need a solid idea of when Peach can get out of hitstun, can trade with her aerials, etc. General goal though is to avoid her hitboxes because she has godly hitboxes but awful movement in comparison to C.Falcon, so use that to your advantage and avoid getting hit until you get a clean grab/knee/stomp, then launch her up and uair/knee her to death.

 

[Aggromidget]

someone tell me how to edgeguard falcon.

I'll contribute what I try to do.

for instance, falcon is below the ledge trying to up-b, waveland to ledge and hog until he either dies or lands on stage, in which case stomp or knee to punish landing lag.

I don't want to allow falcon to get on stage. I want to stand right right next to the ledge, with my back facing them. That way I have 3 options. Stomp, b-air, ramen noodles. For falcon, I'm hesitant to use b-air once they've used up-b since up-b can grab.

So if it looks like falcon can't get on stage, and can only go for edge, ramen noodle of course. This is the easiest situation.
If falcon is coming in (and hasn't used up-b), and looks like he can go for both ledge and stage:
1. Jump off stage stomp and hit them as low as possible allowing you to recover. It's incredibly difficult for them to meteor cancel and reach the ledge. If you do the stomp on stage, it's possible for them to meteor cancel to reach the ledge.
2. and if they are not directly under the ledge. Fast fall b-air. Do a back jump, feint going for the ledge, why actually hitting them with b-air. Usually unrecoverable. Isai used this heaps against Ken. You can also use this as a fake-out, and dj back onto the ledge/stage.
3. Ramen noodle. If it looks like they get on stage, ledge hop stomp, l-cancel, get ready to stomp again.

If it looks like falcon must use his up-b to recover, and can reach the inner stage with his up-b, b-air is my go-to move. I wait until he initiates the up-b, and try hit him with b-air ASAP since he can't do any tricky Hax pull-backs.

I'm not a fan of u-tilt since I'm uncomfortable with the timing. I use it heaps, but I always mistime it. Besides, I find that there are usually better options.