Bug found - Bug removed!

[ZombieBite]

Oh sweet Jesus I can't wait for Brawl, and yunno why? Besides the obvious tons of characters and stages and improved gameplay, they fixed some annoying bugs in Melee that allowed people, who exploited them, to have an advantage in battle against those who didn't exploit them.

I can't wait to beat down some wavedashers who can't get a grip on how the game is actually played until I teach them first hand online. They'll be like "but wuuuuuuuuh? i cant move twice as fast and chain simple air moves over and over again into ridiculous combos deeeeeeruuuuuuuuh???"

This'll be fun.

 

[XeroHarsh]

Nice impression with your first post.

 

[ZombieBite]

Just postin' my excitement, s'all.

 

[Eltrotraw]

sounds like someone's bitter that others knew how to wavedash when said someone couldn't.

do you really think those people need that stuff to win? you make it sound like you can win consistently against them without stuff like wavedashing.

 

[metroid1117]

You don't need to know how to wavedash in order to be good - Aniki, the most famous Link user in Japan, doesn't wavedash at all. Knowing how to do techniques doesn't make you good - it's learning how to read your opponent and punish them for it. Granted, knowing techniques opens up more windows for punishing, but you can always just play someone with a quick, powerful move and use the said move every time you can punish your opponent.

Also, wavedashing is not a glitch/bug - the developers found it during testing and decided to leave it in.

 

[ZombieBite]

Sure can. I don't think your "brain" can comprehend the vast advantage wavedashing gives and how drastically it changes the game into a simple dodge-fest. Do you really think I should be forced to learn a technique resulting from a bug to compete in this game? What if I want to play normal? I'll get my *** handed to me.

But now the wavedashers' days have come.

 

[Steel Braxus]

I admit that wavedashing and all of these advanced 'techniques' are a little ridiculous. Reality check people, Smash Brothers isn't meant to be a SUPER competative game. It's meant to be a game where you get together with your friends and have a good time beating each other up (in the game, that is). It doesn't really matter who wins, really, just that you all of have a great time.

And in case you were wondering...yes I did figure out how to do almost all of the 'advance techniques'. I used them for a week before I realized how incredibly cheap they were...

 

[ZombieBite]

Also, wavedashing is not a glitch/bug - the developers found it during testing and decided to leave it in.

Yeah, that's a fairy tale propagated by the wavedashers. The lead developer of Brawl said they couldn't get rid of it faster because of the mistake of not detecting it in Melee fast enough to change it.

 

[Deleted member]

sounds like someone's bitter that others knew how to wavedash when said someone couldn't.

do you really think those people need that stuff to win? you make it sound like you can win consistently against them without stuff like wavedashing.

Agreed. I could whoop ur @z, zombiw, even if i dont WD, it just helps for mindgames unless u are luigi, samus, or fox (and a few other people but u know). It doesnt really make u go very far for most characters. So stop treating wavedashing like its an exploit (even though it is). It is a technique that takes time to learn, like all other techniques.
And HOW is wavedashing cheap! I mean, it gives u a little more maneuverablity, but if there was no WDing, then Luigi wouldnt even be playable in competitions. Like i said, its mostly used for faking out opponents, and it makes the game more fun IMO

 

[Sandwich]

Lock thread pl0x?

 

[ZombieBite]

Agreed. I could whoop ur @z, zombiw, even if i dont WD, it just helps for mindgames unless u are luigi, samus, or fox (and a few other people but u know). It doesnt really make u go very far for most characters. So stop treating wavedashing like its an exploit (even though it is). It is a technique that takes time to learn, like all other techniques.

Ooooh ok, it just helps with "mind games" unless you're, yunno, 1/3rd of the characters, one being the most popular. And they're just "mind games", right? "Mind games" don't give the "mind gamer" an advantage over the "mind gamee", it's just for fun, I gotcha. And since it takes time to learn, that makes all other points nil. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[blooagga]

Im gonna be a negative nancy and say that if you can't wavedash then they are probably better than you anyway

 

[h1roshi]

doesnt matter, i am still going to play smarter than the avergae joeshmoe, and there will still be new advanced techs discovered...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Eltrotraw]

Sure can. I don't think your "brain" can comprehend the vast advantage wavedashing gives and how drastically it changes the game into a simple dodge-fest. Do you really think I should be forced to learn a technique resulting from a bug to compete in this game? What if I want to play normal? I'll get my *** handed to me.

But now the wavedashers' days have come.

so what, now I'm a complete idiot for arguing against you?

of course I know the advantages of wavedashing, but you obviously haven't played the Brawl demo. Wavelanding's still confirmed to be in at a different form, and several charcters like Peach and Mario can abuse this.

my point of my last post was you would likely still get beaten by said wavedashers even with it gone. you and several other people make it sound like wavedashing is as broken as snaking in Mario Kart - all it does is open up other options for the player.

I admit that wavedashing and all of these advanced 'techniques' are a little ridiculous. Reality check people, Smash Brothers isn't meant to be a SUPER competative game. It's meant to be a game where you get together with your friends and have a good time beating each other up (in the game, that is). It doesn't really matter who wins, really, just that you all of have a great time.

And in case you were wondering...yes I did figure out how to do almost all of the 'advance techniques'. I used them for a week before I realized how incredibly cheap they were...

Reality check - You can play Super Smash Brothers any way you like. That's why there's several options to change the settings of the game, no?

Unless you're one of those people who like to argue against competitive players going "you're not playing the game how it's supposed to".

I don't think you've played that many people who could utilize advanced techniques, hence you not using them because they're "cheap".

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Agreed. I could whoop ur @z, zombiw, even if i dont WD, it just helps for mindgames unless u are luigi, samus, or fox (and a few other people but u know). It doesnt really make u go very far for most characters. So stop treating wavedashing like its an exploit (even though it is). It is a technique that takes time to learn, like all other techniques.
And HOW is wavedashing cheap! I mean, it gives u a little more maneuverablity, but if there was no WDing, then Luigi wouldnt even be playable in competitions. Like i said, its mostly used for faking out opponents, and it makes the game more fun IMO

Wavedashing is cheap. Because Smash was not meant to be played competitive. Try not caring about winning for once and you'll realize that you don't need to wavedash.

 

[Deleted member]

Ooooh ok, it just helps with "mind games" unless you're, yunno, 1/3rd of the characters, one being the most popular. And they're just "mind games", right? "Mind games" don't give the "mind gamer" an advantage over the "mind gamee", it's just for fun, I gotcha. And since it takes time to learn, that makes all other points nil. Thanks for clearing that up.

Hehe, when u put it that way i sound kinda stupid. Ok, luigi samus and G&W are the only characters that need to do it. Some characters dont really have a use for it, and for others, it is just cool looking and to keep ur opponent on your toes. Some cahracters can link a few hits together using it.Mind games dont neccesarily involve WDing. If you dont use mind games, even if you dont use WDing, then u probably suck, cuz mindgames are the game. K im done ranting.

 

[Eltrotraw]

Wavedashing is cheap. Because Smash was not meant to be played competitive. Try not caring about winning for once and you'll realize that you don't need to wavedash.

in response:

Reality check - You can play Super Smash Brothers any way you like. That's why there's several options to change the settings of the game, no?

Unless you're one of those people who like to argue against competitive players going "you're not playing the game how it's supposed to".

 

[Ferio_Kun]

in response:

Touche my friend.

 

[Eltrotraw]

Yeah, that's a fairy tale propagated by the wavedashers. The lead developer of Brawl said they couldn't get rid of it faster because of the mistake of not detecting it in Melee fast enough to change it.

where your proof, otherwise your story's just as much of a fairy tale.

Ooooh ok, it just helps with "mind games" unless you're, yunno, 1/3rd of the characters, one being the most popular. And they're just "mind games", right? "Mind games" don't give the "mind gamer" an advantage over the "mind gamee", it's just for fun, I gotcha. And since it takes time to learn, that makes all other points nil. Thanks for clearing that up.

Yet you still don't understand that it just opens up more options for the players. You're still ranting on as if it made the game completely one sided - wavedashers and nonwavedashers.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, that is a terrible arguement. "Smash was not meant to be played competitively". Ok, why should we be restricted from playing in tournements and having fun. You think that if we lose we slam out controller down and yell loudly? lol, losing agaisnt people better than u is fun. It seeems like you are the ones angry about losing to people better than u.

 

[Rx-]

Just because they haven't officially announced wavedashing yet, doesn't mean it's out!

And also, I'm pretty sure that right when they put AIR DODGING into Melee, they tested it out by air dodging against the walls and floors to make sure that the characters didn't just go right through. And I'm sure when they tested with Luigi, they probably slid at least a little. And I'm sure you're a total n00b and you need to practice more. Good luck with that!

 

[Sandwich]

Just because they haven't officially announced wavedashing yet, doesn't mean it's out!

Where have you been?
No Directional AirDodge=No Wavedash

 

[jon_the_ferret]

I wouldn't call them exploits...personally i never mastered them or found them THAT usefull but then again around where i live (solihull) not a HUGE amount of people had the game so tournaments were pretty non-existent. I never got the practice against harder opponents I craved so bring on the ONLINE!!

I'm rambling, the point I was trying to make is calm down and be quiet lol ^_^ but welcome.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Ok, that is a terrible arguement. "Smash was not meant to be played competitively". Ok, why should we be restricted from playing in tournements and having fun. You think that if we lose we slam out controller down and yell loudly? lol, losing agaisnt people better than u is fun. It seeems like you are the ones angry about losing to people better than u.

I retract my statement. Play Smash how you like.

I suppose if your entire goal is to play to win, then everyone that wants to keep up with you either has to put up, or shut up.

But I will play Smash casually, and have more fun doing it! <-(Personal opinion, don't flame)

 

[ZombieBite]

I'm just eager to not be at an automatic disadvantage when playing Brawl against those who wavedash. It's like I'm punished by not exploiting a bug, and before it was justified by the fact that "they kept it in", but obviously now "it's been removed" so wavedashers are left out bumbling about without footing.

 

[Sandwich]

I'm just eager to not be at an automatic disadvantage when playing Brawl against those who wavedash. It's like I'm punished by not exploiting a bug, and before it was justified by the fact that "they kept it in", but obviously now "it's been removed" so wavedashers are left out bumbling about without footing.

-snort-
You really think wavedashers aren't going to adapt to the enviroment?
Seriously, gtfo.

 

[Smo]

lol ZombieBite you are not making a very good first impression. you're coming on a board of advanced smash players and acting like you're better than them. to me you're just a whiney little noob who can't adapt to new techniques being discovered.

We are all entirely capable of playing the game without Wavedashing. Wavedashing increases versatility and evasiveness, as well as being used to fake out opponents... but that's about it. It's useful in edge gameplay, true, but hey...

I have a friend who beats me often and he doesn't use Wavedashing often. The point is, a player can know every advanced tech in the game and if he's not smart enough to beat his opponent he'll still lose.

You are the one who is not smart enough who thinks that without wavedashing all the pros like Ken, KDJ, M2K and PC Chris will be below you once WDing gone.

You're at an automatic disadvantage for having an IQ of below 70.

 

[Deleted member]

I retract my statement. Play Smash how you like.

I suppose if your entire goal is to play to win, then everyone that wants to keep up with you either has to put up, or shut up.

But I will play Smash casually, and have more fun doing it! <-(Personal opinion, don't flame)

I cant say who will have more fun, cuz however u play, smash is fun! Indeed, play how u like. Zombie, thats like saying "I dont want to be at an automatic disadvantage because i dont use A button moves." Exploit or not, WDing is a technique that gives the player more options, and, IF you do want to play competitively, u should learn how to apply WDing to ur game. But, it sounds like u guys are casuel, which is fine.

 

[ZombieBite]

-snort-
You really think wavedashers aren't going to adapt to the enviroment?
Seriously, gtfo.

Wavedashers won't be wavedashers anymore. Unless you mean people who seek out and exploit glitches, and yes, I'm sure they'll find some new ones.

 

[ShortFuse]

I love the hypocrasy. "Smash wasn't meant to be played competitively, you're supposed to just pick up and play for fun!"

Then shut up and enjoy being owned by wavedashers. If you're taking it so seriously that you join a forum to complain about how much you hate being beaten by wavedashers then, guess what, YOU'RE PLAYING COMPETITIVELY!

 

[jon_the_ferret]

This guy just got ripped to shreds...a little too harshly if you ask me but hey...

 

[ZombieBite]

We are all entirely capable of playing the game without Wavedashing. Wavedashing increases versatility and evasiveness, as well as being used to fake out opponents... but that's about it. It's useful in edge gameplay, true, but hey...

See, look at that sentence. It's like you're trying to downplay wavedashing but can't come up with something that doesn't sound like a huge advantage. Oh yes, we're all able to play the game without wavedashing? No way! And all wavedashing does is makes you faster, harder to hit, and more tricky? Well gee.

"You are the one who is not smart enough who thinks that without wavedashing all the pros like Ken, KDJ, M2K and PC Chris will be below you once WDing gone."

Yeah, I think I can beat the pros, that's what I was getting at.

 

[Sandwich]

This guy just got ripped to shreds...a little too harshly if you ask me but hey...

What did you expect?
THIS IS SMASHBOARDS!!!!!!!!

 

[Seikishidan Soru]

I can't wait to beat down some wavedashers who can't get a grip on how the game is actually played until I teach them first hand online.

Yeah, because wavedashing is definitely some kind of magic win button.

Also, whether something was or wasn't intended by the developers is totally irrelevant. They may have found it during beta testing or maybe not or whatever, but no one should care about that anyway. Because it doesn't actually change anything.

What matters is what is in the final game. If the developers wanted something out and it's in, then that's their own problem. As a gamer, I'm supposed to play the game I'm presented with and nothing else. Trying to fix whatever alleged mistakes were made during development by altering my playstyle is not my job.

WD was in Melee, I main Falcon, it has its uses with him, so I used it.
Brawl has no WD, I won't complain and will play whatever character I see fit. But I'll always try to play to the best of my ability by using as many options the game offers as I can. Regardless of whether they were "intended" or not.

 

[ZombieBite]

Also, whether something was or wasn't intended by the developers is totally irrelevant. They may have found it during beta testing or maybe not or whatever, but no one should care about that anyway. Because it doesn't actually change anything.

What matters is what is in the final game. If the developers wanted something out and it's in, then that's their own problem. As a gamer, I'm supposed to play the game I'm presented with and nothing else. Trying to fix whatever alleged mistakes were made during development by altering my playstyle is not my job.

All you say is that it doesn't matter if it was intended or not and justify your use of it, which is beside the point. Are you saying it doesn't give you a sizable advantage?

 

[Samochan]

I don't need advanced techs to beat scrubs that call competitive players "wavedashers". I only need my trusty dsmash and my brains that people who make these kind of threads seem to lack, that is all. So the thread point is invalid. ^^

FAILED

I really lol to these threads, I really do. Also people, don't feed the trolls.

Actually, my buddy owned someone completely with only using turnipses (no stitch or items) and the fellow wasn't neither a scrub or noob. Turnip mindgames ftw!

 

[Zantetsu]

n00b: This is the level that starts with you playing the game for the first time. It then leads into you learning all the basic techs. You usually get 2-3 stocked by anyone that's fairly good. Mindgames?? What are those??

novice: This is the level where you've mastered the complete basic techs and THINK that you're a pro. This is actually the level where you get comments like this: "I'm a Pro and I could 4 stock you."---"No you couldn't. You're a n00b." You hear about some of the advanced techs but think that you're too good for them. You run tight races with average casual players here. Mindgames?? Ohh....that makes sense.

Average: This is the level where you keep hearing about these things called "shorthopping","fastfalling", and "wavedashing". What the crap are those?!?! Maybe this is something you need to look into. You do, but they're too hard to do so you say that they're "stupid glitches" and you ditch them. You go to a local tourney with pretty fair players, and you make it to the 3rd round and you get ELIMINATED. Ohhh!!! Those mindgame things could really help me out here.

Above Average: This is the level where you keep seeing vids of Pros like Pc Chris, SilentWolf, Eggz, M2King, etc... and you decide that those advanced tech thingies may be worth their weight in gold. You try them and, whaddaya know, you're not as bad at them as before, so you decide that you are going to perfect them. Who knows......maybe you could be as good as them Pros too. Mindgames FTW

Very Good: This is the level where you've practiced alot of the advanced techs, and you're pretty good at them too. You become a fanboy to the Master of your main. He/She begins to show you how they got as good as they are (if you're likeable enough to be friends with them). You go to a tourney with very good players and you reach the eigth round from the finals. Mindgames!!! These are almost the only reason that you got so far in the tournament. Yeayuhhhz, I like these things!!!

Expert: Well, you've done it, at least nearly. You're well known on SWF and you get alot of recognition from the Pros. People stand by on the sidelines of a TV watching your amazing skillz. You've gotten proficient with most of the advanced techs, and your mindgames are above average. Your fanboyee is very proud of you, and starts askin' you to ditto them in a $MM. They beat you of course, but you do win a match of the set.

Pro: You rule this game. You've mastered every advanced tech and you've gotten to where people start sayin' to your opponent "You got mindgamez'd son". You've beaten your main's Master in a set, and you've gotten the top 10 in a National Tournament with alot of Pros. Mindgames are like eating-and-drinking easy to you. You are extremely well known on SWF and get A TON of recognition from your fanboyee and he even talks like you would 3 stock him.

Legend: You own this game. During matches, you can manipulate your opponent to do WHATEVER you want them to do. Your word is gospel truth when it comes to this game. If somebody posts an advice thread to somebody that's like extremely long and you post like two lines saying that they were completely wrong, nobody would get mad at you for dissing them. If you've reached this, you're likely named Eggz, SilentWolf, Pc Chris, M2King, etc...

Congratulations. Your an average smasher! U will phail online! Why? Because new advance techs will be found. So get over it and go play with ur items.

 

[Zankoku]

Doesn't Peach still have Float Cancel? And really mean aerials? And turnips? Who needs wavedashing? That just happened to be something useful for people with low traction, like not Peach.

 

[Sandwich]

Mod: Please Lock this thread

 

[bob-e]

I'll just post part of this epic capypasta from /v/, because I don't feel like taking the time to explain it to another moron.

in response:
The crux of this debate is that some people do not want other people to play a certain game competitively. That's it. No one is asking the inverse, demanding that casual gamers play by their arbitrary set of rules. It is simply the anti-competitive crowd going out of their way to spite those who are better than them. Their "arguments" normally focus on some abstract "way the game was meant to be played", which we all know actually means "way I want the game to be played". To this I can only say, who killed Sakurai and made YOU king?

So why are there so many people who think advanced tactics are the scourge of Smash? It's simple really. Every fighting game suffers from this to some degree, but it has hit the Smash community particularly hard due to its "easy to learn, impossible to master" nature: Everyone and their dog thinks they are great at Smash, some are, but most suck. People seem to get the idea that just because they've unlocked all the stages and characters, that they are true masters of the game. Then one day, they come up against someone using advanced techniques with tournament rules, get destroyed, then become angry and bitter towards tournament rules and techniques like wave dashing.

So next time you get beaten by an advanced player ask for some advice rather than the usual, "Bawwwwww! Wave dashing and L-canceleing are such cheep glitches (PROTIP: they're not glitches). I bet I would beat you if we played on Hyrule Temple with full items." It's not like advanced players are in some secret club, and are determined to keep these techniques hidden from you just to maintain an advantage. With the exception of a few rare douchebag the whole notion of elitism is false, most advanced players would be more than happy to explain advanced techniques to you. Furthermore, it's not even that hard to learn them. In only a couple hours you can learn to wave dash, a couple more and you can learn to L-cancel. From there it's just a matter of practice until you can incorporate them into your game.

So what do casual players have to complain about? Nothing, the anti-competitive crowd just doesn't like the fact that some people are better than them at the game, and they don't want to put forth the effort to become better themselves. That's it. The can claim otherwise all day, but that's it.