"Brother from another MOTHER". Lucas Smash Ultimate Discussion thread.

[PSIguy89]

It’s soooooo good to see him back right of the bat (stick) also LOVE the asthetics they’ve added to his specials!!!

 

[Laniv]

I love how Boney is somehow a more adept PSI user now.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm looking forward to seeing how he changed from last game if any.

 

[MysticKnives]

It's great to see Kumatora having a 3D model.

 

[Deleted member]

It's great to see Kumatora having a 3D model.

Wouldn't it be cool if we also got a Duster AT?

 

[Kain6th]

Lucas returns!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So I had observed how Rob's D-Throw can bury people now:

Do you think Lucas will have the same on his D-Throw? Would probably take away the standard throw combo tool he's had to this point however.

 

[Deleted member 396530]

Close It! To celebrate Lucas Return! Lets Go make a topic.

 

[MERPIS]

So I had observed how Rob's D-Throw can bury people now:

Do you think Lucas will have the same on his D-Throw? Would probably take away the standard throw combo tool he's had to this point however.

d-throw to up smash

 

[TumblrFamous]

What other changes are we thinking will be made to our favorite boy? Any buffs or debuffs?

 

[StarDustStorm]

Lucas has new forward throw animation:

 

[TumblrFamous]

Lucas has new forward throw animation:

View attachment 156304

Good find!

I'm hoping PK Freeze gets some type of buff as well, it probably won't make him go into Free Fall like last game.

 

[Next Door Dog]

Good find!

I'm hoping PK Freeze gets some type of buff as well, it probably won't make him go into Free Fall like last game.

I'll take any PK Freeze buffs I can, that move was really slept on in past games imo. I'd also assume it doesn't put him in free fall, so that gives him some new options (like using it offstage to cover your recovery, ala Zelda's side B). Though I hope more PK Thunder gets buffed. If not making it more consistent (people fall out of it way too often), then get rid of that ridiculous cooldown. I get that Ness is supposed to be the one with the better aggressive PKT2, but I've got time to do my taxes before Lucas can move again if he lands onstage with his (or uses PKT1 for any reason).

 

[MERPIS]

If ness got a new up air does that mean lucas will also have a new up air

 

[TumblrFamous]

If ness got a new up air does that mean lucas will also have a new up air

Not necessarily. It may have been done just to further differentiate them.

Though I certainly hope Lucas comes with one or two new moves.

 

[MERPIS]

Not necessarily. It may have been done just to further differentiate them.

Though I certainly hope Lucas comes with one or two new moves.

I just want him to be great (top 20) for the first time in ever

 

[Aurane]

Someone needs to rip that Kumatora model and mod her over Lucas.

I will play the absolute **** out of her.

 

[Deleted member]

Fellow Lucas main here. I can't wait for Ultimate's competitive scene.

 

[Zafarfro]

I'm so happy Lucas is back. His final smash look fantastic! Also can we talk about how awesome the stock icons are. Here are some of my favorites.

 

[Eisen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=733o521fbdE

In Chrom's character trailer, we see Lucas' fair, which in 60 FPS mode appears to come out on frame 7, maybe 8. For reference, in Smash 4 it comes out on frame 9.

I don't know how the animation compares to Smash 4, so maybe he has some extra frames that look like his normal airborne animation. But, starting from the first frame his leg moves and to the first frame the PK hitbox appears, it would be frame 7. Please let this be true.

 

[Cheryl~]

So from the Spanish event yesterday we did get to see some Lucas gameplay, and someone noted some of the changes to him:

-Aesthetic Change - PK Moves are blue
-Zair has decreased range
-Neutral Air is "bigger"
-Forward Air has reduced landing lag
-PSI Magnet doesn't stall
-PK Fire has increased landing lag
-"No confirmed followups on Down Throw - extremely laggy move" - apparently doesn't bury
-Double Jump is similar to Melee Ness'
-Back Air is "faster"

Not going to lie I'm a bit worried about some of these, particularly the Down Throw being nerfed, as well as PK Fire having more landing lag. Still going to main Lucas no matter what though, I just hope he gets some more buffs to account for this. Also the PK moves being blue is a pretty neat aesthetic change.

 

[Reservings]

There were a couple Lucas matches at the Japan tournament so we get to see him more in HD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QyQWFVRDQE There's Lucas gameplay at 1:13:12 and 3:06:46. A couple notable differences I've seen is that PKT1 has a lot less lag and his up air has a better visual hitbox that more resembles Ness's, but I haven't seen it hit yet so I'm not sure if it was actually changed. It seems like they're trying to make him more like how he was in Brawl.

EDIT: PK Blueberry reuploaded them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_oQmLcFoKY , https://youtu.be/BSZJIFzJSYg

 

[Putuk]

Do we know Lucas' alt colors yet?
I presume they're the same as Smash 4.

 

[Reservings]

Do we know Lucas' alt colors yet?
I presume they're the same as Smash 4.

https://youtu.be/aDSuAY3qiQg
They're the same. Dang though, the new characters' alts look solid.

 

[Putuk]

https://youtu.be/aDSuAY3qiQg
They're the same. Dang though, the new characters' alts look solid.

Was hoping for some new alts, I felt the Smash 4 alts weren't as nice as the Brawl ones.
Oh well, what an incredibly minor nitpick.

Anyhow, reading through the changes earlier in the thread has me a tad worried.
But I'm quite fond that they made his PSI particles look more like they did in MOTHER3 coloration wise. It's very pretty.

 

[Zoneyboi]

His throw combo nerfs are very unfortunate, though I like that PK Thunder is closer to Brawl than Smash 4. DLC Lucas felt a lot less fun than his Brawl incarnation in my opinion. In any case I have some cautious optimism for Lucas, I don't expect top tier at all but I do see him being playable.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm nervous about Lucas and his combo potential with throws. That and the Zair and PK Fire nerfs... those were his best tools.

 

[Reservings]

I'm really banking on the small amount of buffs he got plus the universal changes to really bump him up. F-air seems like a great pressuring tool and if n-air and u-air are actually consistent, he won't have to rely on grabs like in S4. Everyone else getting buffed is concerning though so we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm really banking on the small amount of buffs he got plus the universal changes to really bump him up. F-air seems like a great pressuring tool and if n-air and u-air are actually consistent, he won't have to rely on grabs like in S4. Everyone else getting buffed is concerning though so we'll just have to wait and see.

I think combo throws and grabs in general are getting nerfed, but im worried because Lucas was never an amazing character to begin with. His best attributes were his zoning too and grab game, and those seem to be gutted. Other characters have either been buffet or, in the case of Cloud and Bayo, only got nerfs to their moveset, while their games are relatively similar and strong still.

 

[NintenZero]

Gonna post some of my findings on this forum. Will post more when I can. Go check out Nessome on youtube for Lucas footage.

• All three hits of down smash can hit shield. The move retains all hitboxes even after being used on shield.

Evidence: https://youtu.be/J36jOVk6DUk?t=21

• Down throw has around 21-22 frames of end lag after the character is launched before Lucas can move. Changed from ~11 frames from Sm4sh. Move still buries.

Evidence: https://youtu.be/Ql6YacMetmQ?t=62 (frame by frame the video at 1:04 if you want to see the bury effect)

• Tether can be used out of tumble.

Evidence: https://youtu.be/Ql6YacMetmQ?t=32

 

[Reservings]

I don't like the look of this. N-air combos look harder now.

 

[NintenZero]

I don't like the look of this. N-air combos look harder now.

That does look a little concerning but I wouldn't worry too hard about it. Incineroar gets launched when Lucas is at the main elevated platform but Lucas has to land on the rock in the water, making him drop down further. I would imagine Incineroar is a heavy weight so being launched out of the combo range at ~85% is about normal (this is just from memory so maybe ~85% should combo on heavyweights in sm4sh) but if Lucas did that Nair from a short hop on the flat platform, I could see an up air follow up happening.

 

[NintenZero]

Hey can anyone tell me about how many frames of landing lag Lucas' PK Fire has in Ultimate? I'm getting around 21-22 frames myself but I want to have other sources double check this number.

 

[Reservings]

Hey can anyone tell me about how many frames of landing lag Lucas' PK Fire has in Ultimate? I'm getting around 21-22 frames myself but I want to have other sources double check this number.

21-22 in the direct feed and 11 in the phone capture, so probably 22.

 

[Mellsfunni]

I’m awful excited for SSBU, but I can’t say I’m not dissapointed that Lucas won’t play the way I’ve gotten used to in Smash4. I know it might not be very common among Lucas mains, but I’ve grown terribly fond of magnet sliding as a movement and mixup option. With the changes to the physics of psi magnet, I’m not certain that will still be possible.

 

[TumblrFamous]

We got some more Lucas footage! The first 30 seconds were just him testing out the moves. Nice to see he also won, but the match itself was weird.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think combo throws and grabs in general are getting nerfed, but im worried because Lucas was never an amazing character to begin with. His best attributes were his zoning too and grab game, and those seem to be gutted. Other characters have either been buffet or, in the case of Cloud and Bayo, only got nerfs to their moveset, while their games are relatively similar and strong still.

This actually might be a good thing. They might buff the rest of his game so much it actually over compensates for these nerfs. Having to rely on grabs to be good can really limit a character. I remember when I found out Diddy only 1 banana in Smash 4 and I thought it was a serious nerf but he got so buffed in other areas it really rose him up.

 

[TumblrFamous]

This actually might be a good thing. They might buff the rest of his game so much it actually over compensates for these nerfs. Having to rely on grabs to be good can really limit a character. I remember when I found out Diddy only 1 banana in Smash 4 and I thought it was a serious nerf but he got so buffed in other areas it really rose him up.

To be fair, Diddy from Brawl to 4 was powerhouse to powerhouse, and it looks like the same in this game for him (more versatility with the banana...really?). Lucas really only had one thing and it got gutted.

That being said, they are giving him many buffs across all of his moves. A lot less lag on aerials and normals, better uses for his specials, even his zair got some damage buffs to compensate for decreased range. But that down throw is all that scares me. Hopefully we can workshop this character and find some tricky stuff with him again that'll keep him viable.

 

[Cheryl~]

Been playing a lot of Lucas since I unlocked him yesterday and he is so much fun, I feel right at home with him. The improved Up-Air (it’s more like Smash 4 Ness’s Up-Air now) is an amazing change as I don’t have to try so hard to land the hitbox since it isn’t tiny like it was in Smash 4. Dragdown N-Air also seems like the truth, can’t wait for us to lab and figure out some meaty combos with that move.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The improved Up-Air (it’s more like Smash 4 Ness’s Up-Air now) is an amazing change as I don’t have to try so hard to land the hitbox since it isn’t tiny like it was in Smash 4. Dragdown N-Air also seems like the truth, can’t wait for us to lab and figure out some meaty combos with that move.

Drag'N-Airs is truly the future now mate. Also damn, do I love the buffed PK Freeze and PK Fire now. (Both are able to KO now, especially the latter).