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BRING THE SMASH COMMUNITY TOGETHER

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Dope_Dizzle

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My future hopes for the new smash is that it will bring the Smash scene back together. It has gotten beyond messed up and to be honest is just getting ridiculous. Been playing Smash for a very very long time and a member of SB sense 06 and have witnessed the tournament scene go through all kinds of changes. Now heres what im getting at, Once Brawl came out and didn't have have the exact physics of Melee it started a separation of the scene, but what is getting ridiculous is now Moded versions of the game such as PM are being played at tournaments pulling the smash community even thinner. Don't get me wrong there are few who play all 3 but not nearly everyone. I really really hope Nintendo gets it right this time and makes SSB4 a game that attracts both Melee and Brawl players so we can have even Bigger events and even more fun. The SSB game that re-unites the community and brings in even more competitive players. This is what I hope for out of SSB4, but I know Melee players are stubborn and will still be Melee Or Die -__-
 

SmashCentralOfficial

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Like every scenario ever in life, you can't generalize/stereotype and assume that a group of people act and talk the same way. Many players than prefer Melee to Brawl are anxiously anticipating this new Smash game, and it is definitely going to get it's fair share of tournament play very early in its release. Being a Melee player myself, I really hope that Smash 4 has the pace and offensive gameplay that a tournament fighter needs.

I also do not see how Project: M is tearing the community apart even further. I think after the whole Melee vs. Brawl debate when SSBB first came out, the majority of tournament level players now know that debating about these things is useless, irrelevant, and just makes everyone unhappy. The only debates I've seen are idiotic ones on these forums where individuals hate on Project: M for being an "illegal derivative work" and other nonsense. Personally, Project: M is my favourite SSB game by far, and it's not even a "real" game.

tl;dr: Smash 4 is going to replace Brawl at the tournament level, and SSBM and Project: M will probably always be played. I obviously agree with bringing the community together. I think this time around we'll be a bit smarter and not get into pointless arguments.
 

Renji64

Smash Lord
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The thing I want the same thing everyone to come together as well but the thing unless smash 4 please everyone it won't happen. Melee fans aren't stubborn they just don't accept mediocrity.
 

Dr. James Rustles

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Mar 24, 2008
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I really really hope Nintendo gets it right this time and makes SSB4 a game that attracts both Melee and Brawl players so we can have even Bigger events and even more fun.
That's great. It will. But you need to accept that Melee is also its own game and until they make Melee 2.0 (and maybe not even then), it will forever be its own game. You also speak as if Brawl players need to even be made attracted to the game. News flash: They will be anyway. They were obviously not disenfranchised by Brawl. The bar isn't going to be any lower next time.

This is what I hope for out of SSB4, but I know Melee players are stubborn and will still be Melee Or Die -__-
Wow, just stop talking. You can't expect someone to play something they don't enjoy. Deal with it. This kind of edgy, presuming crap is that kind of talk that makes people not even bother coming to the discussion table.
 

MasterOfKnees

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There are without a doubt gonna be the people who are gonna be complaining that the game won't be Melee v2.0, and heck, there'll probably even be people that complain that it isn't Brawl v2.0.

Some people just don't want change, and a lot of the time those people also don't want others to like something they don't, and that's where the bashing and forum wars begin. I get it, there's a big difference between adapting to something and actually preferring something, it's completely understandable that Melee players don't like Brawl, but all I ask of both sides is that they give Smash 4 a chance, and if you don't like it, then for the love of god please just keep it to yourself, the release of a new game is supposed to be a celebration above all else.

But to be honest, I don't think that we'll ever come at peace again, it's the internet for pete's sake, everybody is stubborn and wants to argue.
 

Uffe

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I truly do believe that those who are strictly Melee can come to like a newer Smash game. Smash 4 might be better than Brawl. I'm not going to say that it is, because one, I don't have the facts to back up that claim, and two, Brawl was the next Smash game competitive players thought was going to be even better. Turns out it wasn't. If the upcoming Smash game is to surprisingly be like a brand new version of Melee, then I think those who are strictly Melee will jump onto the bandwagon. But then you've got the Project Melee mod, and I'm not even sure if Melee players play that. If they don't, then, I guess the strict Melee players won't jump into another Smash other than the one they're familiar with.
 

Ulevo

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lol

Once again people are assuming that there will be players complaining the next Smash Bros. won't be Melee 2.0 because they don't know any better.

Did it ever occur to anyone that people of all skill levels across the community just wanted a good smash game and we never got one?
 

Amazing Ampharos

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I'm with you original poster; I'm with you all the way. As you can see, unity will require those of us in support to do some real work; the forces of discord are mighty indeed. It's almost certainly the case that we won't be getting everyone on board for actually playing, but I hope we can draw quite a few and convince the remainder to at least accept the new game. Even as I just read this topic, I'm already remembering the old weariness that constantly defending Brawl when I was only on smashboards in the first place to talk with other Brawl players about Brawl brought on; that's a bad time that I do think we can prevent from happening again.
 

SmashCentralOfficial

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a
Did it ever occur to anyone that people of all skill levels across the community just wanted a good smash game and we never got one?
This.

Can people stop stereotyping and generalizing Melee players as having the same opinion? I'm a Melee player, and I despise Brawl (which is ironic because at its release I was the only one in my friend group that wanted to play it and liked it), so where does that put me?

Like I said before, Brawl players are going to flock to Smash 4 regardless and it will become the tournament standard because its the NEW game. Melee is a game that will be played in tournaments for a while, especially after Evo. This is due to its popularity, and its obvious status as a great competitive fighting game.
 

grizby2

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Like I said before, Brawl players are going to flock to Smash 4 regardless and it will become the tournament standard because its the NEW game....
isn't this stereotyping brawl players? ._. cuz im a brawl player, and I know IM not just going to pretend that brawl never happened....
 

Priap0s

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lol
Did it ever occur to anyone that people of all skill levels across the community just wanted a good smash game and we never got one?

We can all understand that, it has happened to every one. Last similar experience I personally had was with Dragon Age 2. I loved the first one, didn't even finish the second. I do know however that alot of people liked DA2 and it is a good game. But it just wasn't my cup of tea.

What I can not understand is when people try to force their opinions on others and think that their personal oppinion is a fact. Trying to tell others that they "can't like that, it's ****" and/or "should play this instead". That type of elitism is sickening, just follow the moba-genre and you'll get cancer from seeing gamers argue over nothing.

You yourself are pretty good at taking every chance to point out bad things about brawl and people who like it, so watch out with that!
 

Ulevo

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You yourself are pretty good at taking every chance to point out bad things about brawl and people who like it, so watch out with that!

And here's where you misinterpret things. I can't call you out for liking a game, and I can't objectify your preference. If you like Brawl, that's whatever, and I'm all for that.

However.

There were a lot of distinct mistakes made in Brawls makeup that caused its competitive success to suffer (no, not because it wasn't Melee) that people should be aware of because its important to identify these when Smash Wii U comes out. We shouldn't become so blindly attached to a game that we defend its faults.

I hated Pokemon Diamond and Pearl. The generation never appealed to me, and it was definitely one of my less enjoyed games of the series, to a point that I never even bought Platinum to try it. Competitively wise the game was fairly sound in the end with that generation though. However, Black and White is likely my favourite generation of all. I LOVED it. But competitive its an absolute mess.

The difference here is distinguishable, and its important. I don't call out one generation simply because I have a distaste for it, and I don't suckle on one because of what I liked.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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Objectively Brawl didn't lack competitive success though. That's where none of these arguments even make sense. There have been tons of Brawl tournaments, and they were very successful. There were consistent winners and losers, there was a vibrant metagame in which no player ever reached the limit of the game's depth, and the participants were satisfied with the games. There were some ruleset controversies, and certain types of play that saw success were unpopular. Neither of these problems was substantial enough to really get in the way of the tournament level play though; it carried on regardless. It's not that this is an impossibly low standard either; plenty of games fall short or fizzle out (remember everything that happened with SFxT?), and Brawl did not. I'm not sure what rubric you're using to judge competitive success, but it seems impossible for any objective standard to call Brawl a failure.

This is where people get upset over the divisions. The Brawl community was just doing their own thing and being successful at it, and then when people come along and loudly insist that Brawl is terrible and that the game is a competitive failure, it's a denial of what those people have been doing. No one can say that you have to like Brawl, but it's, for lack of a better term, just plain rude to deny the efforts and successes of its community. Us dedicated Brawl players who are so loudly insisting we need to avoid doing this again with smash 4 really mean this. You don't have to like any smash game, and if you admit that it's just not your cup of tea in your criticisms and limit said criticisms to the proper time and place, no one will be upset. When you claim things like the game is uncompetitive when a lot of people are in fact successfully competing at it, you're not just trashing the game but also the people playing it, denying what they're doing, and it casts a malaise over the broader smash community to have that kind of internal strife. You can see that the malaise is so bad that you really have to badger us before we even defend Brawl anymore despite being a game we both love and have sunk thousands of competitive hours each into. For my part, I don't even care if you hate Brawl forever and think all kinds of crazy things about what we were doing at these Brawl tournaments for years. I just want smash 4 to be spared the same fate, and the only way I know to explain how that can be avoided is to explain what happened with Brawl. We don't all have to like the same games, but we do all need to support what everyone else is doing.
 

Dope_Dizzle

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I wasn't bashing melee players hell i am a melee and brawl player n I understand everyone will have a different outlook on the game but I can dream of a tournament scene that is one again just like when melee was the only smash game in the smash tourney scene, this post wasn't made to start arguments between melee n brawl players. Just to remind people how amazing the community was before we all got split n started arguing with each other.
 

SmashCentralOfficial

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isn't this stereotyping brawl players? ._. cuz im a brawl player, and I know IM not just going to pretend that brawl never happened....
Yeah I suppose in a small way, but at the same time it's true. I highly doubt that there is going to be a fan of Super Smash Bros. Brawl that doesn't buy the next installment. I also highly doubt that Brawl will maintain it's tournament popularity. Smash 4 is definitely going to become the new tournament favourite, whether it's for a short time or not, we'll have to see.
 

Renji64

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The direction smash has De-evolved so much. N64, (Great) Melee(Huge Improvement best in the series) Brawl(Geared toward casuals abandons the original audience. worse entry in the series.) Smash 4 Unknown Middle-ground between melee and brawl even tho it is most likely gonna be Brawl 2.0
 

El Duderino

Smash Ace
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but what is getting ridiculous is now Moded versions of the game such as PM are being played at tournaments pulling the smash community even thinner.
Think you've got it backwards. If anything the smash modding scene has helped re-awaken intrest in the series during the gap between game releases. It promotes further activity which is good for all the games in the franchise.

Remember as well Smash at EVO had a record 700 entrants and 1.34k viewers, making it right behind Marvel as the 2nd most viewed fighting game during any tournament, ever. I think it's safe to say your concerns about the community being stretched thin are, well, bunk. It's very sad that in the face of all the unprecedented success stories of this year, there is still a mob that can't view Melee and its fans as anything but an obstacle. Such a stubborn outlook given how much the scene has grown as a result of their fervor.
 

grizby2

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I don't see why melee enthusiasts desire to have such a low grip/opinion on brawl. they can play a fast-paced game, but not a slow-paced game? by logic, they should be the equivalent of GODS when they play brawl XD, so why not take advantage of that? unless of course....*gasp* some people aren't admitting that playing brawl takes some amount of skill?:awesome:
I transferred from melee to brawl flawlessly (and I had been playing melee since it came out mind you) , retaining all my skills, and all I had to do was adjust to a couple of new mechanics and the game engine. "its a smash game" I thought. recovering was the same, jumping was the same, move commands were the same...ect
aside from the slight moon-like gravity, it wasn't hard at all to get used to. I suspect smash 4 to do the same to me (though... that new controller layout still has me puzzled....) and like all smash bros games, i'll love it, and i'll always go back to revisit the older games.

im very sure that if someone want's to be a part of this site, odds are, that they have a generous amount of skill in smash bros,
ESPECIALLY melee players! those guys can be so modest sometimes~
so in smash 4, I expect NO excuses. 'kay?

I sound a bit brutal, but these are my true opinions.
 

BADGRAPHICS

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There's two things that I think could really bring the community together:
  1. A new game.
  2. Some kind of forum where we could discuss it.
If only...
 

SmashChu

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Think you've got it backwards. If anything the smash modding scene has helped re-awaken intrest in the series during the gap between game releases. It promotes further activity which is good for all the games in the franchise.

Remember as well Smash at EVO had a record 700 entrants and 1.34 million viewers, making it right behind Marvel as the 2nd most viewed fighting game during any tournament, ever. I think it's safe to say your concerns about the community being stretched thin are, well, bunk. It's very sad that in the face of all the unprecedented success stories of this year, there is still a mob that can't view Melee and its fans as anything but an obstacle. Such a stubborn outlook given how much the scene has grown as a result of their fervor.
I think your missing the point. The problem is, as the OP mentioned, the community is splintered ans PM only makes it worse. I disagree with OP's notion that PM is going to add another break in the community. It's problem is it perpetuates the Melee worship. It drags Brawl into the Melee camp and hurts the advancement of Brawl as a game. It was great that the community pitched in helped breast cancer research. That can't be ignored. The thing is the community has to move forward and Melee is not getting any younger. Next year, Melee will not have the up and comer story it had this year.

Let me end with that liking Melee, or perfering Melee, is not a bad thing. The issue is that there is a group in the community that will not except a game that is not Melee. They wont move and and will even actively sabotage the new game. Fans of Street Fighter 3 moved on to 4. Fans of Marvel 2 moved onto Marvel 3. Starcraft fans moved onto Starcraft 2 (and the first game was these guy's bread and butter). The community needs to move on. There are just some players who want to live in the past.
 

SmashCentralOfficial

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Until the Melee worship ends, there will never be a unified community.
The Melee worship will never end, so we'll have to find a way around that. Maybe if it's sequel wasn't so terrible, Melee wouldn't be on such a pedestal.

Think you've got it backwards. If anything the smash modding scene has helped re-awaken intrest in the series during the gap between game releases. It promotes further activity which is good for all the games in the franchise.

Remember as well Smash at EVO had a record 700 entrants and 1.34 million viewers, making it right behind Marvel as the 2nd most viewed fighting game during any tournament, ever.
I agree that modding provides a fresh experience in between games, but I just wanted to note that your numbers are exponentially off aha. It was 1.3 hundred-thousand, not million. 1.34 Hundred-Thousand = 134,000 and 1.34 Million = 1,340,000


I think your missing the point. The problem is, as the OP mentioned, the community is splintered ans PM only makes it worse. I disagree with OP's notion that PM is going to add another break in the community. It's problem is it perpetuates the Melee worship. It drags Brawl into the Melee camp and hurts the advancement of Brawl as a game.
P:M doesn't "perpetuate" or drag anyone into anything. It gives Melee fans a fast-paced Smash experience with a new cast of characters. It is absolutely nothing like Brawl, and anyone who drops Brawl for P:M probably does so because they wanted a game like P:M all along. Instead they received tripping, multiple airdodges, ledge-snapping, massive imbalance, etc.

Let me end with that liking Melee, or perfering Melee, is not a bad thing. The issue is that there is a group in the community that will not except a game that is not Melee. They wont move and and will even actively sabotage the new game. Fans of Street Fighter 3 moved on to 4. Fans of Marvel 2 moved onto Marvel 3. Starcraft fans moved onto Starcraft 2 (and the first game was these guy's bread and butter). The community needs to move on. There are just some players who want to live in the past.
The difference with Street Fighter and Marvel is that their sequels are direct and complete improvements on the previous games. They take the best parts about them and add one or two new key features. They never do anything to drastically change the game at its core and alter its competitive value (ex: removal of l-cancelling, wavedashing, inclusion of tripping).
 

BADGRAPHICS

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It's worth pointing out that if Smash was a PC game, PM would be played by a lot more people.
Perhaps it's worth considering that PM was actually the best real attempt at bringing the community together with a game that was the best of both worlds.
 

SmashChu

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The Melee worship will never end, so we'll have to find a way around that. Maybe if it's sequel wasn't so terrible, Melee wouldn't be on such a pedestal.

The Melee worship will always continue I'm afriad. Sakurai obviously listens and has wants to make SSB4 more of a balance between the two. The problem is the community will hate it because "it's no much like Brawl." The Brawl hate is really silly.



P:M doesn't "perpetuate" or drag anyone into anything. It gives Melee fans a fast-paced Smash experience with a new cast of characters. It is absolutely nothing like Brawl, and anyone who drops Brawl for P:M probably does so because they wanted a game like P:M all along. Instead they received tripping, multiple airdodges, ledge-snapping, massive imbalance, etc.
It's that the community wont move on. Melee has massive imbalances too as the cast is either amazing or awful even in casual play. The issue with Project M is it just prolongs the worship. Rather than try and understand Brawl and learn everything about a new game, they want to make it Melee again. It even changes moves back to their Melee version. Brawl has a stunted meta-game despite there is a lot of potential (look at Olimar). I suspect the same thing to happen to SSB4.

The difference with Street Fighter and Marvel is that their sequels are direct and complete improvements on the previous games. They take the best parts about them and add one or two new key features. They never do anything to drastically change the game at its core and alter its competitive value (ex: removal of l-cancelling, wavedashing, inclusion of tripping).
As many people pointed out here, there is nothing wrong with Brawl. See Amazing Ampharos above.[/quote]
 

SmashCentralOfficial

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It's that the community wont move on. Rather than try and understand Brawl and learn everything about a new game, they want to make it Melee again. It even changes moves back to their Melee version. Brawl has a stunted meta-game despite there is a lot of potential (look at Olimar).

Have you considered that perhaps the community doesn't want to move on? Why move on from a GREAT game to one that is extremely inferior? If Street Fighter 4 or Marvel 3 got rid of the key aspects that made the previous games amazing, SF and MvC fans wouldn't want to move on either!

You speak about "learning everything about a new game", yet you speak about Olimar's hidden potential? Have you seen Olimar being played at a high level? You don't approach. You just chuck Pikmin at them to rack up damage and force them to approach. Then you U/Fsmash. Olimar is probably one of the least fun characters to play against. That strategy I just listed isn't complicated or "deep" in anyway whatsoever either.

Obviously there are still unexplored strategies and playstyles in Brawl, but the most effective ones seem to be extremely frustrating/annoying. I feel like it's impossible to learn absolutely everything about any fighting game, but Brawl definitely caps off a lot lower than melee in terms of the meta-game, like you mentioned.
 

El Duderino

Smash Ace
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I think your missing the point. The problem is, as the OP mentioned, the community is splintered ans PM only makes it worse. I disagree with OP's notion that PM is going to add another break in the community. It's problem is it perpetuates the Melee worship. It drags Brawl into the Melee camp and hurts the advancement of Brawl as a game. It was great that the community pitched in helped breast cancer research. That can't be ignored. The thing is the community has to move forward and Melee is not getting any younger. Next year, Melee will not have the up and comer story it had this year.

Let me end with that liking Melee, or perfering Melee, is not a bad thing. The issue is that there is a group in the community that will not except a game that is not Melee. They wont move and and will even actively sabotage the new game. Fans of Street Fighter 3 moved on to 4. Fans of Marvel 2 moved onto Marvel 3. Starcraft fans moved onto Starcraft 2 (and the first game was these guy's bread and butter). The community needs to move on. There are just some players who want to live in the past.
First of all, I don't think there is any problem with having a community filled with players that play different games in the franchise. It's only really an issue for those that want to turn it into one. You know the type, players with a personal gripe that like to stir up drama every opportunity they get. The thing is, of the competitive community, they make up the minority of players. Just look at the EVO numbers, the scene is doing more than fine, it's shattering records. This negativity is for nothing.

Second, Project M, especially though IGN's coverage, was a reason for lots of fans to dust off their Brawl disk and for that matter even Melee. It really doesn't matter which game it plays more like, especially when Smash 4 is aiming somewhere in-between. The important thing is it helped bring many lapsed players back and provides us an additional game to play. We're not as lucky to have a plethora of tittles to choose from like the FGC. The mods help keep the interest going, which is ultimately healthy for the community. Again, those who get salty like this about Project M make up an extreme minority of the competitive scene.

Last, lots of the respect from the FGC came down the fact that even after 12 years, Melee's scene is thriving. Plenty of them wish they could bring back their classics to the main stage again (MvC2 & SFIII for example). Additionally, Brawl and Melee both enjoy solid tournament scenes. Beyond forum trolls that you should be ignoring anyways, there's no game fanbase wide sabotaging going on. Even if you have the misguided idea that there is, it's never been successful. No reason to believe that will change with Smash 4.

So, can we get back to celebrating this community and all of its accomplishments? All this complaining about unlikely hypothetical scenarios has become a seriously broken record.
 

SmashChu

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Have you considered that perhaps the community doesn't want to move on?

And that's the problem!

Why move on from a GREAT game to one that is extremely inferior? If Street Fighter 4 or Marvel 3 got rid of the key aspects that made the previous games amazing, SF and MvC fans wouldn't want to move on either!

You speak about "learning everything about a new game", yet you speak about Olimar's hidden potential? Have you seen Olimar being played at a high level? You don't approach. You just chuck Pikmin at them to rack up damage and force them to approach. Then you U/Fsmash. Olimar is probably one of the least fun characters to play against. That strategy I just listed isn't complicated or "deep" in anyway whatsoever either.

Obviously there are still unexplored strategies and playstyles in Brawl, but the most effective ones seem to be extremely frustrating/annoying. I feel like it's impossible to learn absolutely everything about any fighting game, but Brawl definitely caps off a lot lower than melee in terms of the meta-game, like you mentioned.
You kind of prove my arguement. It has nothing to do about what Brawl is or isn't; only that it is not Melee. By not being Melee, it is inferior. The next game will try to make a bridge but will be scorned by the community because "it's too much like Brawl." What you said is the problem with the community. Why is Brawl inferior? It's always the same reason. "It's not X, which Melee is." As an example, they'll say "It is slow (specifically, slower than Melee) and it does have combos (Melee does).'" They may even go as far to say "It doesn't have wavedashiong or L-Canceling." They even bring up that Melee's air dodge is better (which is ludicrous). The problem is not liking one o the other, it's making sure one doesn't thrive because it is not the "proper" one. Again, look at Amazing Ampharos's post.
 

nessokman

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The direction smash has De-evolved so much. N64, (Great) Melee(Huge Improvement best in the series) Brawl(Geared toward casuals abandons the original audience. worse entry in the series.) Smash 4 Unknown Middle-ground between melee and brawl even tho it is most likely gonna be Brawl 2.0
AND NOW THE AWARD FOR MOST OPINIONATED POST ON SMASHBOARDS GOES TO-


Brawl was in all respects a fantastic game. 200 hours online. 8) I hate melee because of the extremist melee or die fans......They'll hate anything that isn't melee 2.0. Might as well make a third game that is fox only, final destination, no items
 

Vkrm

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If "adapting" and "moving on" means accepting a game of lower quality then I never will.


AND NOW THE AWARD FOR MOST OPINIONATED POST ON SMASHBOARDS GOES TO-


Brawl was in all respects a fantastic game. 200 hours online. 8) I hate melee because of the extremist melee or die fans......They'll hate anything that isn't melee 2.0. Might as well make a third game that is fox only, final destination, no items
There are things in brawl that lead me to believe that it's not even close to what sakurai intended and I'm not even talking about how it's not suited for competitive play. Brawl is a Frankensteins monster in terms of code. The PMBR talked at length about how much redundant information there is for certain character files. 0-2 frames of delay that happen even in the menus. Nontumble di, RCO lag. Axe the casual vs hardcore debate for minute. These are things that shouldn't be in any video game, regardless of the intended audience.
 

Renji64

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AND NOW THE AWARD FOR MOST OPINIONATED POST ON SMASHBOARDS GOES TO-


Brawl was in all respects a fantastic game. 200 hours online. 8) I hate melee because of the extremist melee or die fans......They'll hate anything that isn't melee 2.0. Might as well make a third game that is fox only, final destination, no items
I never said brawl wasnt fun but it sent the series on a downward. He took a fun fast paced game and turned into a slow campy mario party fighting game pretty much. You can sugar coat it how you want but brawl is when the smash series went downhill. Most people are gonna accept Smash 4 for what it is i know i will the same way i just accepted brawl for what it was. I'm not gonna lie to people and say it help push the series forward and it was great lol.
 

Renji64

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It's that the community wont move on. Melee has massive imbalances too as the cast is either amazing or awful even in casual play. The issue with Project M is it just prolongs the worship. Rather than try and understand Brawl and learn everything about a new game, they want to make it Melee again. It even changes moves back to their Melee version. Brawl has a stunted meta-game despite there is a lot of potential (look at Olimar). I suspect the same thing to happen to SSB4.
Everyone has given brawl a chance no matter how you look at it is the lower quality game. If Sakurai Makes a game that is better than melee and n64 then of course people will head on over. He pretty much just said F-U to the melee fans with brawl and changed the direction of the game for the worse.
 

nessokman

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I never said brawl wasnt fun but it sent the series on a downward. He took a fun fast paced game and turned into a slow campy mario party fighting game pretty much. You can sugar coat it how you want but brawl is when the smash series went downhill. Most people are gonna accept Smash 4 for what it is i know i will the same way i just accepted brawl for what it was. I'm not gonna lie to people and say it help push the series forward and it was great lol.
Saying brawl brought the series down is a melee or die point of view,considering brawl topped melee's sales by a landslide.going slow appealed to casuals, which is what the series really needs.

Let me put this in perspective:a person from nintendo said a wii u fire emblem would need to sell 700,000 copies to be profitable.By that logic, Sm4sh will have to blow the world up with sales.believe it or not, and I know you won't:there are definitely less than 100,000 competitive melee fans and millions of casuals.

Which is going to help the continuation of the series, a hardcore competitive game that appeals to melee fan, some of the brawl audience, and the "ooh link beats mario up" audience, or the huge casual audience, brawl fans, and the newcomer "ooh link beats mario up!" Audience


I have now taught you simple logic, use it well
 

grandmaster192

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I don't see the need to even defend Brawl at this point. The game just isn't liked or respected at a tournament level. You'll never unite or grow the community with that game or another one that resembles it. Smash 4 needs to lean more in favor of melee to keep the momentum we have going. There's a lot of positivity in the community right now after an amazing EVO with record numbers, and we really need to take the opportunity we have and move forward with it. The last thing that needs to happen is brawl 2.0. That would be a huge set back. So i'm hoping we get something like melee just for the communities sake.
 

Renji64

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Saying brawl brought the series down is a melee or die point of view,considering brawl topped melee's sales by a landslide.going slow appealed to casuals, which is what the series really needs.

Let me put this in perspective:a person from nintendo said a wii u fire emblem would need to sell 700,000 copies to be profitable.By that logic, Sm4sh will have to blow the world up with sales.believe it or not, and I know you won't:there are definitely less than 100,000 competitive melee fans and millions of casuals.

Which is going to help the continuation of the series, a hardcore competitive game that appeals to melee fan, some of the brawl audience, and the "ooh link beats mario up" audience, or the huge casual audience, brawl fans, and the newcomer "ooh link beats mario up!" Audience


I have now taught you simple logic, use it well
Well you gotta consider the wii had a way bigger installbase than the gc as well. The melee fans and n64 fans are the original supporters lol he turned his back on those people. I will give the game a chance but i know it won't reach the level of melee or even smash n64 most likely.
 

nessokman

Smash Lord
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Well you gotta consider the wii had a way bigger installbase than the gc as well. The melee fans and n64 fans are the original supporters lol he turned his back on those people. I will give the game a chance but i know it won't reach the level of melee or even smash n64 most likely.
This can't be proven, sakurai himself is going for middle ground, and namco is helping. Excuse you, melee fans are NOT i repeat N.....O.....T the originals. Original supporters supported the....original game...big shock I know. And technically 64 was a moderately casual game, so you should have said he returned back toward 64's level, but went waaaay overboard
 
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