Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

Well you know if the 3DS version didn't exist there wouldn't be a problem would there.

lol

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I'd love these guys to get into the game (even though I wouldn't use them much). Hopefully if they get in, they will be adjusted to function solely on their desynchs as opposed to chain grabs. It would be pretty awesome if Belay was replaced with a fast (or slow but with armor) condor attack that gave a significant vertical distance and had decent KO power.

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

I'd love these guys to get into the game (even though I wouldn't use them much). Hopefully if they get in, they will be adjusted to function solely on their desynchs as opposed to chain grabs. It would be pretty awesome if Belay was replaced with a fast (or slow but with armor) condor attack that gave a significant vertical distance and had decent KO power.

You mean like Pit's Up B in PM but higher? Cool!

 

[Burruni]

Well you know if the 3DS version didn't exist there wouldn't be a problem would there.

Also there would be a large chunk of the audience and profit made cut so Nintendo has the grounds to feel confident to be a bit more experimental with games (Splatoon).

I miss Icies man, but the 3DS version was worth it.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Also there would be a large chunk of the audience and profit made cut so Nintendo has the grounds to feel confident to be a bit more experimental with games (Splatoon).

I miss Icies man, but the 3DS version was worth it.

Eh, its not worth recollecting all the trophies (one of my goals in all Smashs). Icies got cut. Only really bought it for Mewtwo. I still like the 3DS version but I just have a grudge against it for cutting Icies.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

You mean like Pit's Up B in PM but higher? Cool!

took me a while to remember what his pm up b is, but yes. something like that.

 

[Flor@]

Yeah, I almost feel like getting the ICies back AND still having the 3DS and Wii U might be like having your cake and eating it too, but I'm fairly confident that whether it's now or a year or so ago, Sakurai and the team made an earnest effort to get them in and I guess that's really all one can ask for. How many others can say that their most wanted character has been WORKING in Smash 4? It's already kind of an honor, even though, you know, they were still cut. lol.

But yeah, I know there will be at least... 2 characters announced after Lucas. Probably 3-5 even, if they're smart/greedy. But yeah game politics. Either way, I am not sore that the 3DS version is a thing. Love the ICies but I still realize that Nintendo is experimenting and that it was probably the best thing to do, even if it killed the ICies this time around. I've sorta come to the final stage of grief here. What Mewtwo has shown us is that a veteran from 2 Smash game ago can still come back. So I think I'll be happy with whatever happens, because new content is new content and I'm always hyped for smash.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Yeah, I almost feel like getting the ICies back AND still having the 3DS and Wii U might be like having your cake and eating it too, but I'm fairly confident that whether it's now or a year or so ago, Sakurai and the team made an earnest effort to get them in and I guess that's really all one can ask for. How many others can say that their most wanted character has been WORKING in Smash 4? It's already kind of an honor, even though, you know, they were still cut. lol.

But yeah, I know there will be at least... 2 characters announced after Lucas. Probably 3-5 even, if they're smart/greedy. But yeah game politics. Either way, I am not sore that the 3DS version is a thing. Love the ICies but I still realize that Nintendo is experimenting and that it was probably the best thing to do, even if it killed the ICies this time around. I've sorta come to the final stage of grief here. What Mewtwo has shown us is that a veteran from 2 Smash game ago can still come back. So I think I'll be happy with whatever happens, because new content is new content and I'm always hyped for smash.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

The thing is, Icies might not be that sure for a return. They aren't as popular as Mewtwo, their series has had only one game, and I believe Sakurai accepted that Ice Climbers weren't that big and was probably never going to get another game (then again its Sakurai). Smash Bros is their lifeline.

 

[FancySmash]

The thing is, Icies might not be that sure for a return. They aren't as popular as Mewtwo, their series has had only one game, and I believe Sakurai accepted that Ice Climbers weren't that big and was probably never going to get another game (then again its Sakurai). Smash Bros is their lifeline.

I agree, they aren't as popular as Mewtwo, and they only have one game, but Sakurai can't use the fact that they have only 1 game and have little chances of a new game against them. I've said before that Duck Hunt (Dog) only has one game, and if it weren't for Sakurai himself, Kid Icarus would only have two games (one being so obscure in of itself, most generally say 1 game).

Smash never was a popularity contest. But in regards to Ice Climbers being unlikely because they only have one game, I don't know when it started to become one.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

I agree, they aren't as popular as Mewtwo, and they only have one game, but Sakurai can't use the fact that they have only 1 game and have little chances of a new game against them. I've said before that Duck Hunt (Dog) only has one game, and if it weren't for Sakurai himself, Kid Icarus would only have two games (one being so obscure in of itself, most generally say 1 game).

Smash never was a popularity contest. But in regards to Ice Climbers being unlikely because they only have one game, I don't know when it started to become one.

I think Sakurai said something about it.

There wasn’t as high a priority given to series that are unlikely to have another installment at this time.

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...bros-wii-u3ds-and-more-in-new-famitsu-column/

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

Well guys, it's E3 season. Time to anxiously anticipate what new things we may be getting and to expect surprise announcements. We'll find out when we can get Lucas and we may just get more details on Tourney Mode, the Miiverse stage, and maybe 1+ new character(s).

I agree, they aren't as popular as Mewtwo, and they only have one game, but Sakurai can't use the fact that they have only 1 game and have little chances of a new game against them. I've said before that Duck Hunt (Dog) only has one game, and if it weren't for Sakurai himself, Kid Icarus would only have two games (one being so obscure in of itself, most generally say 1 game).

Smash never was a popularity contest. But in regards to Ice Climbers being unlikely because they only have one game, I don't know when it started to become one.

What's funny about Smash not being a popularity contest (yet popularity can be an influence on a character's inclusion) is that the Fighter Ballot is not a contest. It's not like the most voted characters will be the ones who get put in because if Ridley gets the most votes hypothetically, there would be a problem. It's a matter of who is taken into consideration and who meets all of Sakurai's criteria. I bet Sakurai will deliberately look for at least one character in the ballot that has a small amount of votes and hand pick that character as the one nobody was ever expecting much like the Wii Fit Trainer and add them to the mix of other popular characters that were also decided on being included. It'll be like, "Okay so we got Ice Climbers, Wolf, Isaac, King K. Rool, Inkling, and our surprise character Lip from Panel de Pon as our lineup for new DLC characters!" or something like that. It's Sakurai so we're bound to get a surprise like that in the future.

I think Sakurai said something about it.

There wasn’t as high a priority given to series that are unlikely to have another installment at this time.

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...bros-wii-u3ds-and-more-in-new-famitsu-column/

If only he knew at the time how devastated fans would be to see a two time veteran from an obscure retro franchise go. The priority is basically our main proof that ICies are doable given enough time and possible modifications. If only people realized that the 3DS wasn't the only thing held against their inclusion. Then they might not be claiming they're impossible nearly as much. It would also be nice if they didn't assume that 8-player smash affected them in any way.

Speaking of popularity and priority, let's think back to the content Sakurai stated almost didn't make it in. 8-Player Smash: This mode was something Sakurai wanted since Melee. However due to time and difficulty figuring out how to work it around the hardware, it didn't come to fruition until the Wii U. He also stated 8PS barely made it to Smash Wii U. I'm inclined to believe that things in the stages needed to change due to the hardware, but it seemed to be more for convenience. I'm guessing it did help optimize the framerate and getting rid of certain stage gimmicks and hazards helped made it more convenient for the players. Zero Suit Samus' Fusion and Zero Mission Outfits: Yes, alternate costumes were almost cut due to time constraints. Sakurai told his team that they just couldn't make it in. His team responded otherwise by successfully completing them by the deadline. Ah, the power of teamwork. Sound familiar?

Bowser Jr.: This vehicle wielding little guy and the rest of the Koopalings were almost cut from Smash 4. http://www.business2community.com/entertainment/bowser-jr-almost-cut-super-smash-bros-01111218. Sakurai stated after he decided on the roster in May 2012, characters later on were only cut, not added. Bowser Jr. is an interesting case of a character who was on the brink of getting cut and we would have never known he was originally planned to be in unless he was DLC. DLC was probably not even thought about for like 3/4 of development I'm imagining. So what's with Bowser Jr.? He has 8 different models, voices, and is in a kart. What's interesting is that Bowser Jr. and the Koopa Clown Kart are two different entities and in a Smash 4 glitch compilation, it shows that the two can desynch. So they have to be synched all the time for them to work. that must've been difficult to program when developing him. I can't find the one that I found before, but here's one that's very similar and pretty much shows the Koopaling and kart out of synch plus teleporting.

 

[FancySmash]

Well guys, it's E3 season. Time to anxiously anticipate what new things we may be getting and to expect surprise announcements. We'll find out when we can get Lucas and we may just get more details on Tourney Mode, the Miiverse stage, and maybe 1+ new character(s).

What's funny about Smash not being a popularity contest (yet popularity can be an influence on a character's inclusion) is that the Fighter Ballot is not a contest. It's not like the most voted characters will be the ones who get put in because if Ridley gets the most votes hypothetically, there would be a problem. It's a matter of who is taken into consideration and who meets all of Sakurai's criteria. I bet Sakurai will deliberately look for at least one character in the ballot that has a small amount of votes and hand pick that character as the one nobody was ever expecting much like the Wii Fit Trainer and add them to the mix of other popular characters that were also decided on being included. It'll be like, "Okay so we got Ice Climbers, Wolf, Isaac, King K. Rool, Inkling, and our surprise character Lip from Panel de Pon as our lineup for new DLC characters!" or something like that. It's Sakurai so we're bound to get a surprise like that in the future.

If only he knew at the time how devastated fans would be to see a two time veteran from an obscure retro franchise go. The priority is basically our main proof that ICies are doable given enough time and possible modifications. If only people realized that the 3DS wasn't the only thing held against their inclusion. Then they might not be claiming they're impossible nearly as much. It would also be nice if they didn't assume that 8-player smash affected them in any way.

Speaking of popularity and priority, let's think back to the content Sakurai stated almost didn't make it in. 8-Player Smash: This mode was something Sakurai wanted since Melee. However due to time and difficulty figuring out how to work it around the hardware, it didn't come to fruition until the Wii U. He also stated 8PS barely made it to Smash Wii U. I'm inclined to believe that things in the stages needed to change due to the hardware, but it seemed to be more for convenience. I'm guessing it did help optimize the framerate and getting rid of certain stage gimmicks and hazards helped made it more convenient for the players. Zero Suit Samus' Fusion and Zero Mission Outfits: Yes, alternate costumes were almost cut due to time constraints. Sakurai told his team that they just couldn't make it in. His team responded otherwise by successfully completing them by the deadline. Ah, the power of teamwork. Sound familiar?

Bowser Jr.: This vehicle wielding little guy and the rest of the Koopalings were almost cut from Smash 4. http://www.business2community.com/entertainment/bowser-jr-almost-cut-super-smash-bros-01111218. Sakurai stated after he decided on the roster in May 2012, characters later on were only cut, not added. Bowser Jr. is an interesting case of a character who was on the brink of getting cut and we would have never known he was originally planned to be in unless he was DLC. DLC was probably not even thought about for like 3/4 of development I'm imagining. So what's with Bowser Jr.? He has 8 different models, voices, and is in a kart. What's interesting is that Bowser Jr. and the Koopa Clown Kart are two different entities and in a Smash 4 glitch compilation, it shows that the two can desynch. So they have to be synched all the time for them to work. that must've been difficult to program when developing him. I can't find the one that I found before, but here's one that's very similar and pretty much shows the Koopaling and kart out of synch plus teleporting.

In agreement to pretty much all of this. And you know what? The Ice Climbers can only be easier to make for DLC because so much of their work already exists. It's not like all the data for the two was deleted when they had to be halted, it must still exist, ready to complete and add to the DLC section!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well guys, it's E3 season. Time to anxiously anticipate what new things we may be getting and to expect surprise announcements. We'll find out when we can get Lucas and we may just get more details on Tourney Mode, the Miiverse stage, and maybe 1+ new character(s).

What's funny about Smash not being a popularity contest (yet popularity can be an influence on a character's inclusion) is that the Fighter Ballot is not a contest. It's not like the most voted characters will be the ones who get put in because if Ridley gets the most votes hypothetically, there would be a problem. It's a matter of who is taken into consideration and who meets all of Sakurai's criteria. I bet Sakurai will deliberately look for at least one character in the ballot that has a small amount of votes and hand pick that character as the one nobody was ever expecting much like the Wii Fit Trainer and add them to the mix of other popular characters that were also decided on being included. It'll be like, "Okay so we got Ice Climbers, Wolf, Isaac, King K. Rool, Inkling, and our surprise character Amaterasu from Okami as our lineup for new DLC characters!" or something like that. It's Sakurai so we're bound to get a surprise like that in the future.

If only he knew at the time how devastated fans would be to see a two time veteran from an obscure retro franchise go. The priority is basically our main proof that ICies are doable given enough time and possible modifications. If only people realized that the 3DS wasn't the only thing held against their inclusion. Then they might not be claiming they're impossible nearly as much. It would also be nice if they didn't assume that 8-player smash affected them in any way.

Speaking of popularity and priority, let's think back to the content Sakurai stated almost didn't make it in. 8-Player Smash: This mode was something Sakurai wanted since Melee. However due to time and difficulty figuring out how to work it around the hardware, it didn't come to fruition until the Wii U. He also stated 8PS barely made it to Smash Wii U. I'm inclined to believe that things in the stages needed to change due to the hardware, but it seemed to be more for convenience. I'm guessing it did help optimize the framerate and getting rid of certain stage gimmicks and hazards helped made it more convenient for the players. Zero Suit Samus' Fusion and Zero Mission Outfits: Yes, alternate costumes were almost cut due to time constraints. Sakurai told his team that they just couldn't make it in. His team responded otherwise by successfully completing them by the deadline. Ah, the power of teamwork. Sound familiar?

Bowser Jr.: This vehicle wielding little guy and the rest of the Koopalings were almost cut from Smash 4. http://www.business2community.com/entertainment/bowser-jr-almost-cut-super-smash-bros-01111218. Sakurai stated after he decided on the roster in May 2012, characters later on were only cut, not added. Bowser Jr. is an interesting case of a character who was on the brink of getting cut and we would have never known he was originally planned to be in unless he was DLC. DLC was probably not even thought about for like 3/4 of development I'm imagining. So what's with Bowser Jr.? He has 8 different models, voices, and is in a kart. What's interesting is that Bowser Jr. and the Koopa Clown Kart are two different entities and in a Smash 4 glitch compilation, it shows that the two can desynch. So they have to be synched all the time for them to work. that must've been difficult to program when developing him. I can't find the one that I found before, but here's one that's very similar and pretty much shows the Koopaling and kart out of synch plus teleporting.

Fixed.
More seriously. This is my thought on DLC:
Pre-ballot characters.

• All Veterans except for maybe Snake. The only veterans that don't have a character in smash to work off of is Wolf (Has high fan demand), Ice Climbers (Are almost done), Ivysaur (I believe is popular in Japan), Squirtle (Same as Ivysaur), and Snake. The only character I can't predict getting in is Snake. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets in, but I'm not gonna except him.
• All characters that were previously worked on, but were left unfinished. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't add these characters. less work (provided they went past the drawing board.) and might be good for newcomers. I'm positive that many veterans fit this description as well.

Ballot characters.

• 0-2 Bottom tier characters. This would be characters like Arthur that is only wanted by few people, but have potential for a unique gimmick. (No I don't think it would be a third party character, Arthur was the first character to pop into my head)
• 1-2 Low tier characters. More likely for a surprise character. This would most likely be a character that would excite everyone even though it was supported by the minority.
• 2-3 Mid tier characters. This would probably be characters that are only popular in one region. So I think we should get a couple of these to keep the major regions happy.
• 2-4 High tier characters. Characters that would make the majority happy. No questions asked. I think this section is bound to get at least one character.
• 3-6 Top tier characters. This section of characters is destined to get at least two characters. These are the characters that would make the most amount of people happy.

 

[Burruni]

Fixed.
More seriously. This is my thought on DLC:
Pre-ballot characters.

• All Veterans except for maybe Snake. The only veterans that don't have a character in smash to work off of is Wolf (Has high fan demand), Ice Climbers (Are almost done), Ivysaur (I believe is popular in Japan), Squirtle (Same as Ivysaur), and Snake. The only character I can't predict getting in is Snake. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets in, but I'm not gonna except him.
• All characters that were previously worked on, but were left unfinished. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't add these characters. less work (provided they went past the drawing board.) and might be good for newcomers. I'm positive that many veterans fit this description as well.

Ballot characters.

• 0-2 Bottom tier characters. This would be characters like Arthur that is only wanted by few people, but have potential for a unique gimmick. (No I don't think it would be a third party character, Arthur was the first character to pop into my head)
• 1-2 Low tier characters. More likely for a surprise character. This would most likely be a character that would excite everyone even though it was supported by the minority.
• 2-3 Mid tier characters. This would probably be characters that are only popular in one region. So I think we should get a couple of these to keep the major regions happy.
• 2-4 High tier characters. Characters that would make the majority happy. No questions asked. I think this section is bound to get at least one character.
• 3-6 Top tier characters. This section of characters is destined to get at least two characters. These are the characters that would make the most amount of people happy.

That's... optimistic.
Because, looking at the technical problems for Icies that still may not be surmountable without sacrificing their identity and how the cut pokemon characters don't have that much support in Japan...
Your DLC would be
4 Melee Cuts
5 Brawl Cuts
1 Pre-Ballot Newcomer (Ryu) at minimum, as Rhythm Heaven may have had an unfinished fighter which is cause for the Emblem.
Or, if by "All characters that were previously worked on" you extend that to the Forbidden 7, we're looking at a soft 4 to 6 pre-ballot newcomers by adding Dixie, Toon Zelda, and Tetra/"Toon Sheik" as Pru_Mai MAY have been a duo character Plusle & Minun or just a code name for a random slot.

So, 10-16 Pre-Ballot fighters who so far have been placed at a bi-monthly release schedule.

Then, from the Ballot, we range from (0+1+2+2+3) = 8 to (2+2+3+4+6) = 17 Newcomers.

So, we're looking by those estimates somewhere in the range of 18 to 33 characters added as DLC to a base roster of 51.

 

[Marigi174]

That's... optimistic.
Because, looking at the technical problems for Icies that still may not... blah blah blah

For the bolded part, I'm just going to say to read @ TheBeardedPunisher 's post about how Bowser Jr. would have been far more challenging to implement than IC would ever be.

(no longer directed specifically at Burruni)
I'd like to see a general rule about discussion in this thread where people are discouraged from saying stuff about how IC won't get in due to technical whatever. I'm not against discussion of implementation, but it really scrapes up my spine when I see people say that they won't get in due to being technically difficult when the purpose of this thread is to be optimistic that they will get in.

edit: @ Burruni - when you say "Tetra/"Toon Shiek"", wouldn't it make more sense to have Tetra replace Shiek and Toon Zelda replace Zelda in a pre-SSB4-esque character if you were to do it like that? I say this because Toon Zelda exists but not Toon Shiek, and I have often compared Tetra to Shiek in that they are both a 'rouge form' of Zelda.

 

[Burruni]

For the bolded part, I'm just going to say to read @ TheBeardedPunisher 's post about how Bowser Jr. would have been far more challenging to implement than IC would ever be.

(no longer directed specifically at Burruni)
I'd like to see a general rule about discussion in this thread where people are discouraged from saying stuff about how IC won't get in due to technical whatever. I'm not against discussion of implementation, but it really scrapes up my spine when I see people say that they won't get in due to being technically difficult when the purpose of this thread is to be optimistic that they will get in.

I never said they won't.
I want them in.
It's just a difficulty they need to climb.
I specifically said "May not," I don't think that's being unrealistic while it isn't optimistic. I didn't mean specifically just in processing the desynch possibilities within Icies that were mitigated to the point of effectively nullified for most play for Junior and the Koopalings.
I'm no game designer, so I'm not gonna extend out my hand too far on this ground.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That's... optimistic.
Because, looking at the technical problems for Icies that still may not be surmountable without sacrificing their identity and how the cut pokemon characters don't have that much support in Japan...
Your DLC would be
4 Melee Cuts
5 Brawl Cuts
1 Pre-Ballot Newcomer (Ryu) at minimum, as Rhythm Heaven may have had an unfinished fighter which is cause for the Emblem.
Or, if by "All characters that were previously worked on" you extend that to the Forbidden 7, we're looking at a soft 4 to 6 pre-ballot newcomers by adding Dixie, Toon Zelda, and Tetra/"Toon Sheik" as Pru_Mai MAY have been a duo character Plusle & Minun or just a code name for a random slot.

So, 10-16 Pre-Ballot fighters who so far have been placed at a bi-monthly release schedule.

Then, from the Ballot, we range from (0+1+2+2+3) = 8 to (2+2+3+4+6) = 17 Newcomers.

So, we're looking by those estimates somewhere in the range of 18 to 33 characters added as DLC to a base roster of 51.

Here is my reasoning.
Dark Pit and Lucina took very little work to make, as they are essentially pallet swaps with different mechanics. This is how Ganondorf got in in Melee. Pichu, Roy, and Young Link require only slightly more work than Dark Pit or Lucina. So it makes sense to make them with how easy it would be even though Young Link and Pichu aren't the most popular characters in the world.
Wolf and the Ice Climbers have high fan demand. The Ice Climbers are also almost complete on both versions. (They would have to be at least almost done to find that the 3Ds couldn't handle them) At a cost perspective, I don't think they would let that much time and money go to waste, and they are probably still working on the Ice Climbers.
I'm willing to bet that Squirtle and Ivysaur were both planned for this game, but were cut due to time constraints, and the fact that Charizard was much more popular. And with their veteran status, I believe they were at least being worked on. This makes the two more likely.
I should rephrase what I said earlier. I meant all characters planned for smash 4. All of the characters in this category are pretty likely if they had been worked on before they got cut.
I am not including Ryu in my predictions until he is confirmed. I'm not one to jump on bandwagons. (Though sometimes characters I support become bandwagon characters.)
As for the ballot, I'm not expecting a bottom tier character, I just think it's possible. I'm also not expecting more than one low tier characters, but with Sakuri being Sakuri, we could get more than one. I'm expecting a couple mid, high, and top tier characters though.
So let's break it down.
Three easy to make characters, one of which may give much more money than used to make the character in the first place.
Two 1/2 characters that have high fan demand and/or are mostly done before DLC was made.
At least two characters that were being worked on, and take less work than starting from scratch.
and then the ballot characters. I'd say about....um......8?
So for DLC as a whole, maybe.....13-24. So we will have a total roster of 64-75 characters. 75 is me being an optimist, and 64 being the minimal I think we will get.

Sort of unrelated, but as far as the forbidden 7 goes, I think Dixie Kong will get in as a high tier ballot character, or not at all until smash 5. I think Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik will get into smash 5 as a representation of Melee and Brawl Zelda/Sheik if at all (and by Toon Sheik I mean Toon Sheik, none of this Tetra stuff.). Pru_Mai will probably never resurface if it truly is Plussle and Minun. However, their inclusion in Brawl would have been influential to Smash 4's roster. Here is why. In the Pokémon games, each gen introduces an electric type, rodent based Pokémon. In Smash, 64 gave us Pikachu, and Melee gave us Pichu. Had Brawl given us Plussle & Minun, we could very well have Pachirisu in ssb4.

 

[Burruni]

For the bolded part, I'm just going to say to read @ TheBeardedPunisher 's post about how Bowser Jr. would have been far more challenging to implement than IC would ever be.

(no longer directed specifically at Burruni)
I'd like to see a general rule about discussion in this thread where people are discouraged from saying stuff about how IC won't get in due to technical whatever. I'm not against discussion of implementation, but it really scrapes up my spine when I see people say that they won't get in due to being technically difficult when the purpose of this thread is to be optimistic that they will get in.

edit: @ Burruni - when you say "Tetra/"Toon Shiek"", wouldn't it make more sense to have Tetra replace Shiek and Toon Zelda replace Zelda in a pre-SSB4-esque character if you were to do it like that? I say this because Toon Zelda exists but not Toon Shiek, and I have often compared Tetra to Shiek in that they are both a 'rouge form' of Zelda.

I meant Tetra and Toon Sheik as one in the same.... as that's basically what Tetra is. But as transformations are out, she would be her own character.

Here is my reasoning.
Dark Pit and Lucina took very little work to make, as they are essentially pallet swaps with different mechanics. This is how Ganondorf got in in Melee. Pichu, Roy, and Young Link require only slightly more work than Dark Pit or Lucina. So it makes sense to make them with how easy it would be even though Young Link and Pichu aren't the most popular characters in the world.
Wolf and the Ice Climbers have high fan demand. The Ice Climbers are also almost complete on both versions. (They would have to be at least almost done to find that the 3Ds couldn't handle them) At a cost perspective, I don't think they would let that much time and money go to waste, and they are probably still working on the Ice Climbers.
I'm willing to bet that Squirtle and Ivysaur were both planned for this game, but were cut due to time constraints, and the fact that Charizard was much more popular. And with their veteran status, I believe they were at least being worked on. This makes the two more likely.
I should rephrase what I said earlier. I meant all characters planned for smash 4. All of the characters in this category are pretty likely if they had been worked on before they got cut.
I am not including Ryu in my predictions until he is confirmed. I'm not one to jump on bandwagons. (Though sometimes characters I support become bandwagon characters.)
As for the ballot, I'm not expecting a bottom tier character, I just think it's possible. I'm also not expecting more than one low tier characters, but with Sakuri being Sakuri, we could get more than one. I'm expecting a couple mid, high, and top tier characters though.
So let's break it down.
Three easy to make characters, one of which may give much more money than used to make the character in the first place.
Two 1/2 characters that have high fan demand and/or are mostly done before DLC was made.
At least two characters that were being worked on, and take less work than starting from scratch.
and then the ballot characters. I'd say about....um......8?
So for DLC as a whole, maybe.....13-24. So we will have a total roster of 64-75 characters. 75 is me being an optimist, and 64 being the minimal I think we will get.

Sort of unrelated, but as far as the forbidden 7 goes, I think Dixie Kong will get in as a high tier ballot character, or not at all until smash 5. I think Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik will get into smash 5 as a representation of Melee and Brawl Zelda/Sheik if at all (and by Toon Sheik I mean Toon Sheik, none of this Tetra stuff.). Pru_Mai will probably never resurface if it truly is Plussle and Minun. However, their inclusion in Brawl would have been influential to Smash 4's roster. Here is why. In the Pokémon games, each gen introduces an electric type, rodent based Pokémon. In Smash, 64 gave us Pikachu, and Melee gave us Pichu. Had Brawl given us Plussle & Minun, we could very well have Pachirisu in ssb4.

I just believe that 13-24 is high hopes for DLC. I'm someone who is saying that we'll get in the range of 8-10. So take my opinoin with a grain of salt, I was just laying out how your numbers added up to some massive numbers.

 

[lightdasher]

Y'know on my amiibo tap game, Ice Climber is the only one I haven't got, if Ice Climbers come back, you can bet I'm using the amiibo on that

 

[Marigi174]

we could very well have Pachirisu in ssb4.

This sub-clause got me interested. I'd LOVE to have Pachirisu if we were to get another Pokemon. Not only did it get lots of hype after someone won at worlds with one (which has resulted in my dubbing it 'Pachirisu: Destroyer of Worlds'), but there is also a lot that they could do despite its small movepool in the game. With it having the ability Pickup, lots of item control options in Fling, Covet, Theif and Bestow, a momentum-retaining move in U-Turn and good disruptive options in Follow Me and Nuzzle, I could see Pachirisu being designed with doubles in mind. I think that it would be both really cool and really adorable if it were to be given lots of ways of helping its partner out (Follow Me forcing all opponents towards Pachirisu for a few seconds, Pickup to automatically catch any items thrown at it, Covet to either steal the opponent's item or produce a randomly chosen throwing, battering or recovery item excluding pokéballs and master balls (don't worry: no hammers; a full list can be found here if you only look at any item listed as throwing, battering or recovery - easier to spot if you click on "type" at the top of the table, but make sure to ignore any item not in SSB4 for obvious reasons and includes game-exclusive items in the respective game only) - depending on proximity to opponent - Fling allowing it to pluck a weak throwing item* from the ground and very quickly throw it at the opponent and Bestow allowing it to pass its teammate its held item) and, with its amazing item control and team support game, be very threatening in a match.

While I understand that it is an Ice Climber social thread, I feel like it is okay if we break away and express cool ideas that we have regarding other possibilities as long as we respect one another as, at the end of the day, we are both discussing the Ice Climbers and having a nice chat

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

While I understand that it is an Ice Climber social thread, I feel like it is okay if we break away and express cool ideas that we have regarding other possibilities as long as we respect one another as, at the end of the day, we are both discussing the Ice Climbers and having a nice chat

Well since you say that..... Please tell me I'm not the only one that wants a No Stage Hazards Update/DLC (should be a update if you ask me) Not only would it make a lot more competitively legal stages, but, in relation to Ice Climbers, make them MUCH easier to run on 3DS. I mean it would be SOOOO much easier to run 8 ICs on Wily Castle without Yellow Devil. I also think what they should do is after a few weeks or so they should see which are stage are most competitively viable according to the Smashers, Then make two seperate For Glory modes: One called,"For Glory Ω" and the other,"For Glory No Hazards". With that, Ice Climbers, and Adventure Mode, I will be able to die happy.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well since you say that..... Please tell me I'm not the only one that wants a No Stage Hazards Update/DLC (should be a update if you ask me) Not only would it make a lot more competitively legal stages, but, in relation to Ice Climbers, make them MUCH easier to run on 3DS. I mean it would be SOOOO much easier to run 8 ICs on Wily Castle without Yellow Devil. I also think what they should do is after a few weeks or so they should see which are stage are most competitively viable according to the Smashers, Then make two seperate For Glory modes: One called,"For Glory Ω" and the other,"For Glory No Hazards". With that, Ice Climbers, and Adventure Mode, I will be able to die happy.

You would still have the hazards mode though. But as far as hazards, what counts?
3D Land: Stays at the start the whole match.
Golden Plains: Stays at the start the whole match and gets rid of coins.
Rainbow Road: No landing on the track, or getting damaged by it.
Paper Mario: Stays on the Sticker Star area.
Brinstar: Gets rid of acid.
Spirit Train: Stays with default cars, and the train is not moving.
Gerudo Valley: Bridge does not break.
Jungle Japes: The water current is removed.
Mushroomy Kingdom: Stays at the start, no items appear out of ? Blocks.
Dream Land: Stays at the start.
Corneria: No lazer fire from any ships.
Unova Pokémon League: No stairs, no Reshiram or Zekrom.
Prism Tower: Stays at the start.
Mute City: Ground is touchable.
Magicant: No Tomatoes, walking sprouts, octopus statues, or Flying Men.
Tortimer Island: No Sharks, no items growing on trees.
Distant Planet: No rain, No Bulborb.
WarioWare, Inc.: No Microgames.
Reset Bomb Forest: The forest part is removed.
Flat Zone 2: No stage transformations, and no trampoline.
Arena Ferox: Same as Omega version.
Boxing Ring: No crashing lights, no you cannot bounce off the bouncy thingies. (dunno what they are called)
Balloon Fight: No flippers, no fish, no storm clouds.
Living Room: No play toys (Making it the same as Dream Land).
Find Mii: No Dark Emperor.
Pictochat 2: No drawings.
Green Hill Zone: No checkpoints, or falling terrain.
Wily Castle: No Yellow Devil, No moving Platforms.
PAC-Maze: No pellets, no ghosts.
Do you think they would be this meticulous, or would they leave in things that don't buff or damage you?

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

You would still have the hazards mode though. But as far as hazards, what counts?
3D Land: Stays at the start the whole match.
Golden Plains: Stays at the start the whole match and gets rid of coins.
Rainbow Road: No landing on the track, or getting damaged by it.
Paper Mario: Stays on the Sticker Star area.
Brinstar: Gets rid of acid.
Spirit Train: Stays with default cars, and the train is not moving.
Gerudo Valley: Bridge does not break.
Jungle Japes: The water current is removed.
Mushroomy Kingdom: Stays at the start, no items appear out of ? Blocks.
Dream Land: Stays at the start.
Corneria: No lazer fire from any ships.
Unova Pokémon League: No stairs, no Reshiram or Zekrom.
Prism Tower: Stays at the start.
Mute City: Ground is touchable.
Magicant: No Tomatoes, walking sprouts, octopus statues, or Flying Men.
Tortimer Island: No Sharks, no items growing on trees.
Distant Planet: No rain, No Bulborb.
WarioWare, Inc.: No Microgames.
Reset Bomb Forest: The forest part is removed.
Flat Zone 2: No stage transformations, and no trampoline.
Arena Ferox: Same as Omega version.
Boxing Ring: No crashing lights, no you cannot bounce off the bouncy thingies. (dunno what they are called)
Balloon Fight: No flippers, no fish, no storm clouds.
Living Room: No play toys (Making it the same as Dream Land).
Find Mii: No Dark Emperor.
Pictochat 2: No drawings.
Green Hill Zone: No checkpoints, or falling terrain.
Wily Castle: No Yellow Devil, No moving Platforms.
PAC-Maze: No pellets, no ghosts.
Do you think they would be this meticulous, or would they leave in things that don't buff or damage you?

Ehh, I would say more remove things that damage, buff, or nerf characters. For example, side-scrolling/transforming stages are fine (i.e. 3D Kand and Castle Siege) But stages like Wily Castle with Yellow Devil or minor hazards like the checkpoints would need to go.

 

[FancySmash]

You would still have the hazards mode though. But as far as hazards, what counts?
3D Land: Stays at the start the whole match.
Golden Plains: Stays at the start the whole match and gets rid of coins.
Rainbow Road: No landing on the track, or getting damaged by it.
Paper Mario: Stays on the Sticker Star area.
Brinstar: Gets rid of acid.
Spirit Train: Stays with default cars, and the train is not moving.
Gerudo Valley: Bridge does not break.
Jungle Japes: The water current is removed.
Mushroomy Kingdom: Stays at the start, no items appear out of ? Blocks.
Dream Land: Stays at the start.
Corneria: No lazer fire from any ships.
Unova Pokémon League: No stairs, no Reshiram or Zekrom.
Prism Tower: Stays at the start.
Mute City: Ground is touchable.
Magicant: No Tomatoes, walking sprouts, octopus statues, or Flying Men.
Tortimer Island: No Sharks, no items growing on trees.
Distant Planet: No rain, No Bulborb.
WarioWare, Inc.: No Microgames.
Reset Bomb Forest: The forest part is removed.
Flat Zone 2: No stage transformations, and no trampoline.
Arena Ferox: Same as Omega version.
Boxing Ring: No crashing lights, no you cannot bounce off the bouncy thingies. (dunno what they are called)
Balloon Fight: No flippers, no fish, no storm clouds.
Living Room: No play toys (Making it the same as Dream Land).
Find Mii: No Dark Emperor.
Pictochat 2: No drawings.
Green Hill Zone: No checkpoints, or falling terrain.
Wily Castle: No Yellow Devil, No moving Platforms.
PAC-Maze: No pellets, no ghosts.
Do you think they would be this meticulous, or would they leave in things that don't buff or damage you?

Hmm, for the Paper Mario section, I suggest only switching between the first and second sections, leaving out Bowser's Castle. I just don't see anything wrong with the ship (aside from the whale and Blooper). Also, I like the Thousand year door.

On another note, do you guys think we should be pushing the idea that the Ice Climbers may be able to complete with the extra DLC time, because I think some people still think that they are 100% unlikely...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ehh, I would say more remove things that damage, buff, or nerf characters. For example, side-scrolling/transforming stages are fine (i.e. 3D Kand and Castle Siege) But stages like Wily Castle with Yellow Devil or minor hazards like the checkpoints would need to go.

I think this would make Mushroom Kingdom U tournament legal. Nabbit and the Urchins may be the only thing banning it.

Hmm, for the Paper Mario section, I suggest only switching between the first and second sections, leaving out Bowser's Castle. I just don't see anything wrong with the ship (aside from the whale and Blooper). Also, I like the Thousand year door.

On another note, do you guys think we should be pushing the idea that the Ice Climbers may be able to complete with the extra DLC time, because I think some people still think that they are 100% unlikely...

Yeah. I kinda go off on a tangent on how the Ice Climbers are likely whenever someone doubts them. But seriously though. If you can't think on a technical perspective, think from a business perspective. Would a business let all that time an money go to waste? I don't think so.

 

[Marigi174]

If we were to have a no hazards option (yes please), here is what should happen:

Spoiler: 3DS

Golden Plains: Gets rid of coins.
Rainbow Road: Still damaged by track, but no Shy Guys
Paper Mario: No wind or Bowser's Castle. No blooper or whale
Brinstar: Gets rid of acid.
Gerudo Valley: Bridge breaks, but Koume and Kotake do not appear.
Jungle Japes: Water current stays, but the creature in the water is removed.
Mushroomy Kingdom: No items appear out of ? Blocks.
Corneria: No lazer fire from any ships.
Unova Pokémon League: No stairs, no Reshiram or Zekrom.
Magicant: No Tomatoes, walking sprouts, octopus statues, or Flying Men.
Tortimer Island: No Sharks, no items growing on trees.
Distant Planet: No rain, No Bulborb.
WarioWare, Inc.: No Microgames.
Reset Bomb Forest: The forest part is removed.
Flat Zone 2: Stage transformations remain, but all hazards and trampolines are removed from the stage.
Boxing Ring: No crashing lights, bouncy strings remain.
Balloon Fight: No flippers, no fish, no storm clouds.
Living Room: No play toys.
Find Mii: No Dark Emperor, no power ups.
Pictochat 2: Only non-damaging drawings remain.
Green Hill Zone: No checkpoints, or falling terrain.
Wily Castle: No Yellow Devil. Moving platforms remain.
PAC-Maze: No pellets, no ghosts.

Spoiler: Wii U

Mushroom Kingdom U: No nabbit, icicles removed.
Mario Circuit: No Shy Guys, still damaged by track.
Luigi's Mansion: Stage is indestructible.
Mario Circuit (Brawl): No Shy Guys.
Jungle Hijinx: No pillars appear, Barrel Cannons do not explode, stage never drops. You still damage your opponent if you launch into them.
Kongo Jungle 64: Barrel Cannon removed.
75m: Donkey Kong removed.
Skyloft: Waterfall is purely aesthetic.
Bridge of Eldin: Bokoblins never ride across stage.
Pyrosphere: No Ridley.
Norfair: Magma removed.
Great Cave Offensive: Hazards remain (this stage is too goddamn big to remove them).
Halberd: Weapons removed.
Orbital Gate Assault: All explosions and lasers removed.
Kalos Pokemon League: Transformations remain, hazards of transformations removed.
Pokémon Stadium 2: Transformations remain, effects of transformations (wind, conveyer belt movement, slippery etc.) are removed, leaving only platform layouts.
Onett: Cars removed.
Coliseum: Walk-offs removed.
Flat Zone X: Transformations remain, hazards of transformations removed.
Skyworld: Destructible platforms (barring the moving one at the bottom) are removed, only clouds remain.
Gamer: Mother removed.
Garden of Hope: Peckish Aristocrab removed.
Boxing Ring: No crashing lights, bouncy strings remain.
Wii Fit Studio: Walk-offs removed.
Gaur Plain: Metal Face removed.
Pilotwings: Structures which can damage players are now purely aesthetic.
Wuhu Island: Structures which can damage players are now purely aesthetic.
Wily Castle: No Yellow Devil. Moving platforms remain.
Pac Land: Fire Hydrants removed.

This is so that the stages retain their current themes without any of the game-breaking stuff. While there will still be a big chunk which are uncompetitive, a larger number will become available to play on in tournaments.

I'd be all for adventure mode provided that it was in the Melee style as opposed to the Brawl style.

As for stages, I want to get Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, Dream Land 64 and Hyrule Castle back. They were such great stages, and I was gutted when they got removed.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd be all for adventure mode provided that it was in the Melee style as opposed to the Brawl style.

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks Actual Story > Cute Cut Scenes. Honestly I don't think The Subspace Emissary should be called Adventure Mode, instead it should be called Story Mode. Hey, maybe we could get both.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

Not sure if this small detail will add much to the ICies DLC discussion, but it's about the 3DS version after the DLC update. At the end of Classic and All-Star Mode, you can fast forward through the credits and the speed is the same in both versions. As of the DLC update, (not sure if it's from downloading the update or downloading Mewtwo) when you try to fast forward through the credits in the 3DS version, it now lags. The updated content must be the cause of this lag because it didn't happen before v 1.0.6. I tried it with Mewtwo as well as some other characters non-DLC of course. It lags for all of them. Just wanted to bring that up. You know, the more I think of it, the more I wonder if Smash 3DS would've been cut in its entirety due to 3DS limitations if it had a lower priority than Smash Wii U. Because it's the first time we've ever had Smash on a handheld when that series has had its entire foundation based on consoles for a decade and a half. With Sakurai taking two huge leaps at once with making both a handheld and an HD Smash, that's huge. He wanted to put as much effort into both versions as possible and wanted to have some type of unity between them. These ideas were first and foremost on Sakurai's mind, and the characters were below that no matter how long they've been in the series and no matter how many fans those individual characters have. The lower priority characters were less prevalent in his vision. This is only me theorizing how his mindset was processing during development. Now, with his vision he built up and finally brought to life, he's reaching out to us, the fans, to expand on his vision. To make what's already great better. With developmental priorities already being fulfilled, we are now his priority. We can say who we want as DLC directly and our voices can truly be heard. And that's why I firmly believe that the Ice Climbers in fact can become DLC.

 

[FancySmash]

So, I'm not sure if we ever touched this subject, but what Smash News are you guys expecting at E3? I think Ice Climbers would be a bit of a pipe dream actually . It's not that I don't ever expect to see them, I really think they have a shot with DLC, it's just that E3 still seems a bit early to have all of those problems fixed. Thoughts?

 

[kackamee]

You guys are giving me hope. I'm scared.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You guys are giving me hope. I'm scared.

No need to be afraid. Hope is what gets people through the day. :3

 

[UberPyro64]

So, I'm not sure if we ever touched this subject, but what Smash News are you guys expecting at E3? I think Ice Climbers would be a bit of a pipe dream actually . It's not that I don't ever expect to see them, I really think they have a shot with DLC, it's just that E3 still seems a bit early to have all of those problems fixed. Thoughts?

Ryu and maybe Roy. That leak pretty much took the fun out of predictions.

And it's probably real. It's been leaked by multiple reliable sources. Including one that leaked Hyrule Warriors and Mario Kart 8 DLC which ended up being true.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

I found an insightful article from Source Gaming that heavily discusses if Ice Climbers can be DLC in Smash 4. https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/can-ice-climber-be-in-smash-4/. There are also links to other things they've said in past articles that partly talk about ICies as well. Although some of the parts are opinion based and I disagree on what they're saying about 8-Player Smash relating to how modified stages and simplified bone structures (in Wii Fit Trainer for example) are examples as to how ICies "may not work in 8PS." In my opinion, anything that compares Ice Climbers to 8-Player Smash holds about as much water as an open, flat palm with all fingers spread out. I don't know where those rumors started but it's not practical until confirmed. But still it's a great read. I'm glad that there are people besides us who are looking into the ICies situation as thoroughly as we are.

Spoiler

Source Gaming says yes, the Ice Climbers can be in Smash 4. They suggest that they get modified which I think will be okay if need be whatever Sakurai decides on and resorts to.

Oh, and Sakurai says that Lucas is finished and will be released June 14. Yay! I wonder what else is in store?

 

[kackamee]

Are ICs in 8 player smash an issue besides aesthetic? I was under the impression that the Wii U could definitely handle it, but it'd look very confusing to have 8 on screen.

 

[Burruni]

Can someone just clarify this for me:

I know that you can use your 3DS as a controller for the WiiU version, during this, is a compressed version of the WiiU game on the 3DS screen?

Because I HAVE seen people use a couple 3DS's in an 8 player tourney as controllers.

If the 3DS is having to handle 8 ice climbers running around, that is when things may get frosty.

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

Can someone just clarify this for me:

I know that you can use your 3DS as a controller for the WiiU version, during this, is a compressed version of the WiiU game on the 3DS screen?

Because I HAVE seen people use a couple 3DS's in an 8 player tourney as controllers.

If the 3DS is having to handle 8 ice climbers running around, that is when things may get frosty.

No it's just the boxart cover

 

[FancySmash]

I found an insightful article from Source Gaming that heavily discusses if Ice Climbers can be DLC in Smash 4. https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/can-ice-climber-be-in-smash-4/. There are also links to other things they've said in past articles that partly talk about ICies as well. Although some of the parts are opinion based and I disagree on what they're saying about 8-Player Smash relating to how modified stages and simplified bone structures (in Wii Fit Trainer for example) are examples as to how ICies "may not work in 8PS." In my opinion, anything that compares Ice Climbers to 8-Player Smash holds about as much water as an open, flat palm with all fingers spread out. I don't know where those rumors started but it's not practical until confirmed. But still it's a great read. I'm glad that there are people besides us who are looking into the ICies situation as thoroughly as we are.

Spoiler

Source Gaming says yes, the Ice Climbers can be in Smash 4. They suggest that they get modified which I think will be okay if need be whatever Sakurai decides on and resorts to.

Oh, and Sakurai says that Lucas is finished and will be released June 14. Yay! I wonder what else is in store?

Should this link be added to the first page, something to give detractors perhaps? In my opinion, it's actually pretty decent. Good find, @ TheBeardedPunisher !

 

[Brickbuild101]

Why haven't I done this yet. Support.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

Why haven't I done this yet. Support.

Welcome aboard! Always nice to see more supporters out there coming over to the thread.

 

[slambros]

I support as well. The Ice Climbers are too Smash-Intertwined to leave out.