Brawl, Wi-Fi, and the Smash Community

[Simna ibn Sind]

I don't post here in the brawl boards often, but wth^_^ I like this post:

on the topic of online ranking, i think there is some good behind not having it...

No online rankings+lag will promote live tournaments for brawl...not online tournaments....imo this is a good thing as it wont destroy the smash bros. player community.


think about it....the BACKBONE of the smash bros community is the arrogant noob who beats all his friends and believes he is the best(you know who im talking about). Its this person that makes the smash community so large and competetive...its these people that will enter any tournament anywhere because they are the best.

This person believes they are the best because of how well they do with the few people they have played. With online play...players like this will be able to take on anyone and many may find out that they really arent that good...and thus destroying the backbone of the community

BUT, the fact that there is no ranking system AND the fact that losses can easily be blamed on lag...this kind of player still has a great chance of thriving in the Brawl community and thus allowing the community of players to remain as strong, as large, and as closely knit as it is now.

good job Nintendo

(copy/paste...so useful)

 

[phanna]

It's the best of both worlds. Noobs will gain confidence from playing other noobs, and skill from not practicing against computers. Better players can work on their mindgames and tech skill, without getting used to the lack of DI of training mode, or predictable DI of computers. Games won't be about who is fighting who, but about winning that match. You can sit down any time and play another actual human, and even better, you can also play matches with your friends, which is all just icing on the cake. Personally I'm glad we won't have to deal with 8 year olds talking like they do in Halo.

So it beats the heck out of fighting computers, and it saves the hassle of pretending that on-line play is serious enough to warrant records and reputation. Win, win win win win.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

phanna GETS IT

 

[Demon Kirby]

Hey, another Blizzard fan.

That said, I'm looking forward to WiFi brawl. And the rest of what Phanna said.

 

[THEmSHAKE]

Interesting. Though what you say is true. I would have to disagree on one point and is that I think that online tournys wouldn't destroy the backbone of the community, but expand it. I say this because since we haven't played brawl yet, we don't know how bad lag will be and how often. Of course, watch brawl come out and instantly prove me wrong. Oh well.

 

[Zantetsu]

Woh
You so read my mind simna...SIMNA THE PSYCHIC!

 

[Zink]

imo online is going to be an important part of the Brawl community. It will make it possible to basically challenge anyone. I doubt lag will be an issue within a country, and if you can start to arrange matches with people who are actually good as opposed to just your local crew or whatever, THEN you can really improve. Imagine being able to set up a game with any SWFer, at any time. Obviously top pros are unlikely to be available, but there's a ton of really good players who aren't at that level.
It would be awesome if we could set up an SWF ladder system.

 

[MuraRengan]

Phanna really summed it up. And thank Jeeezusss this Brawl is online. I'd hate to have to go another 6+ years with no one to play.

Also, the online feature will probably increase the skill of EVERY online player, making more competition, and less showing of outstanding skills IMO. Since everyone can play each other, everyone can learn from each other. Tactics and skills will spread rapidly, so those with potential will rise a lot faster than in SSBM

 

[sagemoon]

I guess i'm on the other side of the spectrum. No ranking in online mode was a really big bummer to me. While i know ppl who are really good and can play with them on the "with friends" application, its only so limited to how many ppl i know. On top of that, randomizing matches will give you prolly a 1/10 chance of playing at least decent (sorry pulling statistics outta my ***). And even if you do find someone decent, you dont know their name, you wont be able to add them as a friend. A ladder or some forms of ranking would give better matchups no matter what skill. Every person would be playing a match against a person (or in some cases ffas) of their skill.

Im sure some thread will be created to get wii numbers (if it hasnt already) but still, a ranking system would be prefered.

 

[Dr Mario Kart]

There has to be lag. Even functional lag from a signal getting from point A to B will lose you the single frame accuracy required for competitive players to play at their best. There is absolutely no way around that.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Interesting. Though what you say is true. I would have to disagree on one point and is that I think that online tournys wouldn't destroy the backbone of the community, but expand it. I say this because since we haven't played brawl yet, we don't know how bad lag will be and how often. Of course, watch brawl come out and instantly prove me wrong. Oh well.

but as the "arrogant noob" is the backbone of the community, online rankings would take the noob out of his comfort circle of friends where he is the best and expose him(and expose him often) to players all over the world, most of which will be better than him and some MUCH better than him

this will destroy his arrogance and thus he wont be the "arrogant noob" that supports the community

Out of the 73,000+ members here on Smash World Forum I strongly believe that as the creator of the GSC and as the person who regulars the highest number of forums for smash bros I can also tell you that only a very small percentage of these arrogant noobs have resolve enough to, after losing hard to ppl much better than them, stick with the game and try to "go pro" and surpass those who beat them

 

[NintendoWarrior]

I'm just glad I'll be able to play you guys. Since I moved to Oregon from NY years ago I don't have any friends to play with.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

NintendoWarrior: see here: http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/GSC

 

[THEmSHAKE]

but as the "arrogant noob" is the backbone of the community, online rankings would take the noob out of his comfort circle of friends where he is the best and expose him(and expose him often) to players all over the world, most of which will be better than him and some MUCH better than him

this will destroy his arrogance and thus he wont be the "arrogant noob" that supports the community

Out of the 73,000+ members here on Smash World Forum I strongly believe that as the creator of the GSC and as the person who regulars the highest number of forums for smash bros I can also tell you that only a very small percentage of these arrogant noobs have resolve enough to, after losing hard to ppl much better than them, stick with the game and try to "go pro" and surpass those who beat them

Ok, I'll agree with that. Since theres no way, that I can see at least, of exposing noobs online proves your point.

 

[SirroMinus1]

I guess i'm on the other side of the spectrum. No ranking in online mode was a really big bummer to me. While i know ppl who are really good and can play with them on the "with friends" application, its only so limited to how many ppl i know. On top of that, randomizing matches will give you prolly a 1/10 chance of playing at least decent (sorry pulling statistics outta my ***). And even if you do find someone decent, you dont know their name, you wont be able to add them as a friend. A ladder or some forms of ranking would give better matchups no matter what skill. Every person would be playing a match against a person (or in some cases ffas) of their skill.

Im sure some thread will be created to get wii numbers (if it hasnt already) but still, a ranking system would be prefered.

like you be rank top 5 anyway.

 

[robyextreme]

There has to be lag. Even functional lag from a signal getting from point A to B will lose you the single frame accuracy required for competitive players to play at their best. There is absolutely no way around that.

Exactly.

Besides who would want to sit on their couch while on a computer at their side in a chat room playing a tournament? and waiting for their turn.

Sounds REALLY boring.

 

[NintendoWarrior]

NintendoWarrior: see here: http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/GSC

Well I'll be, thanks! *Bookmarks*

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Exactly.

Besides who would want to sit on their couch while on a computer at their side in a chat room playing a tournament? and waiting for their turn.

Sounds REALLY boring.

I dont really mind that, but this brings up another good point. With melee tournaments(the ones you have to travel to) only half of the fun is playing the game...the other half of the fun comes from the ppl you meet(or meet again), the trip, and the location

being really good can also get you other bonuses such as fame, fans, cheering, and money...which can potentially double your fun^_^

 

[Hydde]

Avbout the original post...... the online fearture...it doesnt matter if the so called noob will get *** kicked or not.......... it will forcefully expand the fanbase in one way or another.

The fact that the internet spread information in space f seconds is the key factor here. it doesnt matter if one player leave the online because he got insulted by random noobs and mean people, because 5 more players will come in for him.

Im not supporting this kind of mean behaviour in online play, but we have to face that with this new addition...Brawl will forcedfully attract a whole lot of consumers........... it doesnt matter if they will be smashboards worhty or not.. they will come and the smash players ratio will increase considerably!.

So in summary, the community will expand inevitably


MO

 

[Johnknight1]

Good points Simna! I want to play online to gain my skill level, and practice, enter biweeklies later on, etc. When it comes down to it, for the better players smash online will be keeping your skill level up/training/improving your game inbetween biweeklies, which prepare you for tournaments. On the tournament thing, you convinced me, so I'm changing my mind on the whole tournament online thing. Exellent ideas!

 

[cultofrubik]

Phanna=Win

Short. Simple. Easy. Sweet.

The arrogant noob is your hated friend. He gives you money and someone too mindgame. LawL Super Duper Wavedash

 

[Youkai Master]

I completely agree with phanna, this is just win. Every type of smash player can only benefit from this kind of online play while not hurting the smash community or the REAL tournaments that should still totally take place and be the center and heart of Brawl.

So we'll keep the community and competitiveness of Melee, but now the good players can ditch those stupid powershielding-nonDI-ing CPUs and train with an actual human any time, and the regular noobs can have his fun and maybe even gain some confidence to go to a real tournament

EDIT: Simna's last post explains some of what I tried to say...

 

[Hydde]

Jggez,,,so many possibilities!!! i cant ... i JUST CANT wait to face you all people!! even a little lag here or there will not stop this new experience!!

Im so happy now.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Simna is correct. If we had the "perfect" online play, not only would the backbone of the community be destroyed but we'd lose a personal connection with us united smashers. However, we are still able to have fun and play new people. I'm looking forward to getting better and taking anyone's challenge, even if I get owned. And I can do that just fiine with Nintendo's online system for Brawl. More over, a ranking system promotes a numerous amount of complainging annd disconnecting which nobody enjoys. I won't say Nintendo hit online right no the nail, but they certainly did a good job. Not to mentino, we'll be hearing a lot more about online play within the next 2 months.

 

[MarioChief364]

w00t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DarthWolf42]

I very much agree. Out of my circle of friends that plays Melee, I am undoubtedly the best. I'm concious to the fact, though, that compared to other people, I am the one that sucks. I've tried wavedashing......and almost completely fail at it. But when Brawl comes around, I can actually see what degree of sucking I'm at. ^_^

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

has any1 thought about that what sakurai said was that the lag gets worse the farther the connection,

I personally think that he was talking about FFA matches not 1v1 and hopefully we can control that(the FFA and 1v1 thing)

 

[PilotEvan]

Indeed, there would be a human-relations aspect missing from online leaderboards. I've always been iffy about the idea and why everyone's been clamoring about it not having it (as the update has shown so far).

It's blatantly obvious that the leaderboards would be completely corrupt to begin with. The person who spends his/her days and nights playing nonstop would obviously hold the top spot, and said person would do so for a very long time, until another person with no life catches up.

It's quite unheard of for a console game, but when leaderboards become a variable and competition is a factor, cheating would be prone to occur. This is usually typical to PC online games, but a Wii Action Replay has been out for a while (as well as other coding products that were released as the Wii first came out that required soldering). It's astounding what can be done with such software, and its effects on online play are unknown so far, but leaderboards would only promote the use of cheating to hold the top spots.

HOWEVER, the lack of leaderboards and the like does not mean online competitions can not be held! According to IGN (don't ask me how they got this number), but you can hold a total of 64 friend codes into your Brawl "contact list". Within so, it would not be impossible to hold a "mini-tourney" within a select group. Obviously, making such a competition official would be difficult on a large scale and (I personally) would vouch against it, but nothing says that you and a few of your friends couldn't have your own fantasy MLG tournament.

 

[PyrasTerran]

I agree that it's too early to tell whether the lag will be a significant deal. Sakurai is considered a very nice man, as are most of those Nintendo folks. Very nice, humble, down-to-earth people are they not? Sakurai could very well be, just being himself and apologetic for what COULD be, but most likely might not, be that huge a deal.

Besides, in the event that tournaments occur, how many people exactly are from outside North America? The odds of finding someone so far away that lag chances are massive isn't that large unless you're playing the 'fight anybody' mode.

 

[The Hypnotist]

has any1 thought about that what sakurai said was that the lag gets worse the farther the connection,

I personally think that he was talking about FFA matches not 1v1 and hopefully we can control that(the FFA and 1v1 thing)

Excellent point!

 

[sagemoon]

like you be rank top 5 anyway.

My post had nothing to do with the top 5. I dont even consider myself close to there. But if I were to play various ppl around my skill level it would help me improve faster. Im sure it would help others improve faster as well.

 

[darkNES386]

All I have to say is that Nintendo is giving us all the tools we need to create a global scale tournament. Perhaps lag will cause some problems across countries, as Mr. Sakurai explained, but just think about being a part of something massive that can be done everywhere at once. That kind of interaction is what I believe nintendo is hoping for.

 

[Adi]

So I guess the Halo tournament scene is crap then?

*sigh*

The lack of rankings isn't an ingenious strategy by Sakurai, it's pure laziness and lack of proper infrastructure in order to create a suitable system. Rankings would do nothing to diminish the scene. If anything it would enhance is, as it would make more and more people aware of tips and tricks they can incorporate into their own play style, thus increasing the overall average skill of the community.

 

[darkNES386]

You don't need a leaderboard to go up against someone better than you or to learn new tricks

 

[some_jerk]

So, win or lose, we still win? Yes!

 

[Adi]

You don't need a leaderboard to go up against someone better than you or to learn new tricks

Yeah I fully realize that it can be set up in smashboards, but having an automated system makes the process goes much faster. Not to mention if you set up a random match on smashboards, chances are they're not going to be even on your skill level.

 

[NES n00b]

Yeah I fully realize that it can be set up in smashboards, but having an automated system makes the process goes much faster. Not to mention if you set up a random match on smashboards, chances are they're not going to be even on your skill level.

That is why you scrounge for FCs to tourney goers near you.

That is what I am going to do.

 

[Frigid_Aztec]

meh, I still think that online rankings would be cool, but Nintendo would of probably screwed them up somehow, so its no big deal.

I'm just glad that we have Wi-Fi, now I can finally play against real competition.

lol, I just realized. How many PMs do you think some of the pro players will have with ppl asking to play them

 

[Adi]

I'm not using myself as an example. I have fairly good connections and lots of smashers near me to play by. My concern is for smashers who would want to use online as a social mechanism to meet people online and find people equal to their skill level, but have no one near them to play with. PMing people for friend codes is an sufficient method to do so but also very spammy and may not be the best way for finding good matchups.

 

[freeman123]

Simna ibn Sind
on the topic of online ranking, i think there is some good behind not having it...

Well, you're wrong.

Simna ibn Sind
No online rankings+lag will promote live tournaments for brawl

There's online rankings and lag in Halo 2 and that never stopped live tournaments. There's online rankings and lag in Warcraft 3 and they still have live tournaments. Having online rankings would in no way effect live tournaments. That's stupid.

Simna ibn Sind
think about it....the BACKBONE of the smash bros community is the arrogant noob who beats all his friends and believes he is the best(you know who im talking about). Its this person that makes the smash community so large and competetive...its these people that will enter any tournament anywhere because they are the best.

I don't know what you're talking about. The people who say those things don't usually play in tournaments. That's why they think they're the best, because they never play anyone outside of their group of friends.

Simna ibn Sind
This person believes they are the best because of how well they do with the few people they have played. With online play...players like this will be able to take on anyone and many may find out that they really arent that good...and thus destroying the backbone of the community

That makes no sense at all. Online play will only improve the "community", because there will be more competitive players. A lot more people will be made aware of the more advanced teqniques, and a lot more people will become good at the game. If anything, it'll make tournaments more competitive because there will be more good players.

Simna ibn Sind
BUT, the fact that there is no ranking system AND the fact that losses can easily be blamed on lag...this kind of player still has a great chance of thriving in the Brawl community and thus allowing the community of players to remain as strong, as large, and as closely knit as it is now.

I don't understand your point at all. Why would no online rankings keep people from knowing they suck? They still know if they got their @#$ whipped, regardless of whether it's ranked or not. Unless Sakurai is also adding one of those MIB flash things to make people forget when they lose, which actually wouldn't surprise me.

The truth of the matter is that Nintendo sucks at online. I'm sorry, but it's true. They make great games, but their online set ups are terrible compared to their competitors. There's not one person who can honestly tell me that this game wouldn't be 1,000 times better on XBL.