Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[PosthumusES]

Well I like to voice of my opinion on something that needed. Well anyways I believe we should be working on a character size modifier, since the characters seem a little bit big compare to Melee. Also a stage size modifier would be nice(Pokemon Stadium 1 need a stretch).

 

[Revven]

well the whole nana teleporting thing (i know there's already being work done on that though), same with the codes not fully applying to her.

as far as 'additions' to them, if you can add SA frames then possibly giving popo SA frames with their tether from when nana grabs the ledge to when she starts pulling him up.

PK is in the US right now and thus, can't really hack anything until he's back home (no idea when that'll be) so fixing Nana in any way will have to wait for some weeks more (probably after debugging the engine codes).

We hope you understand mr. poop.

 

[PKNintendo]

TSON, you might as well roll with the punches. And be thankful this particular punch wasn't that bad.

Imagine if they completely and utterly refused us.
...

Anarchy.

 

[FrozenHobo]

PK is in the US right now and thus, can't really hack anything until he's back home (no idea when that'll be) so fixing Nana in any way will have to wait for some weeks more (probably after debugging the engine codes).

We hope you understand mr. poop.

ANY changes to nana by gold are appreciated. its fine in friendlies, but tourneys are a pain.

 

[[TSON]]

TSON, you might as well roll with the punches. And be thankful this particular punch wasn't that bad.

Imagine if they completely and utterly refused us.
...

Anarchy.

They basically did.

LETS SOLVE THIS PROBLEM BY GIVING THEM SOMETHING ELSE THAT THEY DON'T NEED THAT DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM BUT WE'LL SHUT THEM UP WON'T WE LOL!!!

*sizzle*

EDIT: SMK slapped me for this post ;_;

 

[shanus]

ANY changes to nana by gold are appreciated. its fine in friendlies, but tourneys are a pain.

Ice climbers aren't forgotten, they've just been on the sad backburner since they need many codes to fix them

 

[The Cape]

No, it's because IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE. Zap jump doesn't help anything but recovery, but you lot are upright refusing to just BOOST WHAT HE ALREADY HAS.

Its funny. This is exactly what I tried to do with most of his moves and everyone threw a ****fit because they lost broken PK Flash, PK Absorb, and PKT ****.

As for the "Zap jump" they keep refering to. Its with aerials and not sideB since the sideB one is complete **** and you are better off doing it with a fair or bair as is.

 

[PKNintendo]

Its funny. This is exactly what I tried to do with most of his moves and everyone threw a ****fit because they lost broken PK Flash, PK Absorb, and PKT ****.

As for the "Zap jump" they keep refering to. Its with aerials and not sideB since the sideB one is complete **** and you are better off doing it with a fair or bair as is.

PK flash was broken? You jest.

 

[FrozenHobo]

its always nana....

but i hope you will consider my SA frames suggestion. i got gimped by the last hit of yoshi's dair. the entire thing missed me, but i got hit by the very last hit and i wound up falling to my death.

 

[PKNintendo]

Hey! It can sometimes be Popo too depending on costume...

Right?

 

[[TSON]]

Its funny. This is exactly what I tried to do with most of his moves and everyone threw a ****fit because they lost broken PK Flash, PK Absorb, and PKT ****.

As for the "Zap jump" they keep refering to. Its with aerials and not sideB since the sideB one is complete **** and you are better off doing it with a fair or bair as is.

If someone would help on IRC I would just do it myself :V

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Well I like to voice of my opinion on something that needed. Well anyways I believe we should be working on a character size modifier, since the characters seem a little bit big compare to Melee. Also a stage size modifier would be nice(Pokemon Stadium 1 need a stretch).

Character size mod? i dont htink it would:
shrink (hurt/hit)boxes too?
change movement and stuff?
like...would a character be on the ground b4 their (model) feet touched it?
and i see a world of problems for stage streaching

 

[FrozenHobo]

Hey! It can sometimes be Popo too depending on costume...

Right?

i can't use those costumes... its not that i don't like using them, i just CAN'T play with nana in the lead. its like a mental block. no desyncs, no combos, nothing. i also couldn't CG in vBrawl with nana in the lead... she's just not a leader.

 

[camelot]

Well I like to voice of my opinion on something that needed. Well anyways I believe we should be working on a character size modifier, since the characters seem a little bit big compare to Melee. Also a stage size modifier would be nice(Pokemon Stadium 1 need a stretch).

You know, Pokemon Stadium 1 is actually the same size in Brawl, it's the way the camera works in Brawl that makes it seem a bit bigger (it's zoomed out more, doesn't move as fast, has different angles).

 

[CountKaiser]

They basically did.

LETS SOLVE THIS PROBLEM BY GIVING THEM SOMETHING ELSE THAT THEY DON'T NEED THAT DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM BUT WE'LL SHUT THEM UP WON'T WE LOL!!!

*sizzle*

EDIT: SMK slapped me for this post ;_;

Ness is a monster on stage and now has an average recovery.

What's the problem?

EDIT: Frozenpopo, that sounds like sexism to me. Tsk tsk.

 

[[TSON]]

Ness is a monster on stage and now has an average recovery.

What's the problem?

The problem is that this build doesn't fix the problem.

All we got was lagless PKT1.

That doesn't help recovery as a means of recovering.

At all.

 

[CountKaiser]

We have fair zap jump and SA Psi Magnet. Learn to use those, and when you believe these don't work, THEN you can complain.

 

[Revven]

Character size mod? i dont htink it would:
shrink (hurt/hit)boxes too?
change movement and stuff?

The hurtboxes change and so do the normal hitboxes but, specials don't change with the size, so you're mostly right... but, we don't plan to change character sizes anyway. And, we already have a stage size mod but, there are bugs with certain stages if we try to change them in size (i.e Corneria, kupo tried to make it bigger and I heard that when he did there were bugs with the stage). The bounds for that stage so far are more than enough even without the size change.

 

[[TSON]]

We have fair zap jump and SA Psi Magnet. Learn to use those, and when you believe these don't work, THEN you can complain.

Go read back, I'm tired of repeating myself.

 

[Shadic]

As somebody who only plays Ness in Smash64... Couldn't you just make it so that his PKT2 (Or whatever it's called) simply blasts you further? Like, 1.5 times as far? It seems like it would make Ness harder to gimp, because you'd have to jump further off the stage, but still make it interruptable, which it always has been.

 

[FrozenHobo]

EDIT: Frozenpopo, that sounds like sexism to me. Tsk tsk.

maybe...
>_>
<_<

she needs to get her *** back in the kitchen and stop getting me killed.

 

[The Cape]

Shadic, I have been looking into the "unstoppable" PKT2. Time will tell on that. As for the distance, a speed mod MIGHT work, but doesnt that make him more like Lucas?

 

[[TSON]]

Shadic, I have been looking into the "unstoppable" PKT2. Time will tell on that. As for the distance, a speed mod MIGHT work, but doesnt that make him more like Lucas?

Yes... It does...

However not if you don't turn it up that much ;>

 

[Blank Mauser]

I don't think there will be many situations a longer PKT will make a difference in. He can already do it pretty far off the stage. Using it out from a distance just sets you up for edgehog instead. PKT is also really easy to read.

 

[CountKaiser]

Go read back, I'm tired of repeating myself.

You don't want people falling into Ness to stop PKT, right?

Then use a zap jump fair. It goes pretty far when you do it correctly, and with Good DI can ensure your survival.

I know, you don't like the zap jump. Well, it was always there to begin with, this change simply made it much better.

And now you think Ness is Lucas 2.0. Last I checked, Ness can't magnet pull, doesn't have a tether grab, a killing uthrow, the strongest pummel in the game, a PKT that can gimp opponents, or has become a ground-based character with with a reliable fsmash, a dsmash that goes through most any recovery, or the second strongest usmash in the game.

See my point?

 

[[TSON]]

I don't think there will be many situations a longer PKT will make a difference in. He can already do it pretty far off the stage. Using it out from a distance just sets you up for edgehog instead. PKT is also really easy to read.

All more to look out for.

If it's such a craptastic move, why make it so easy to gimp?

Idk I'm running low on motivation now. Doesn't seem like my opinion matters at all anymore.

 

[proteininja]

My thoughts on my two favorite characters:

Bowser:
The SA crawl is lulzy and really helps out alot in match ups with sheik and falco. It was such a pain before to power shield there projectiles while inching forward. Now I just take two or three shots and BAM fist to face. I enjoyed this change, but ask that if it stays SA be added to reverse crawl for the purposes of using his SA crawl as an all purpose spacing and approach tool.

The buffed throws help him SOOO much. Getting the opponent off stage lets Bowser's edge guarding game shine.

I could not tell any difference with the up-tilt though i know it was changed to down and in front a teensy bit more. It was so utterly minute. Why do it at all?

The neutral air change is amazing. It says GTFO, and take your junk with you. I found myself almost unconsciously gimping with it. It was perfect for jumping out and hitting characters trying to pull in for tether. It is a great move, and i believe bowser is shaping up to be a great character.

Ness:
He is so much FUN! the removal of the infinte PKT1 did not hurt at all. It does suck to be gimpable, but his SHFFL F-air game is so good he needs a weakness to offset it. i prefer using the down+b to stall and mind game then use my up+b when I'm in a good position to recover.

F-air feels good. Not as Godly as it was at 25% size increase, but still his spacing bread and butter.

One thing I noticed is the side+b zap jump is 100x harder than the zap jump with aerials. I don't know why. My personal opinion is to remove the zap jump, and leave it for lucas. I find myself not being able to do it consistently when recovering, and doing it too many times accidentally while trying to do rising aerials.

Ness has a BAD recovery. The new down+b stall and windbox changes Ness's whole recovery game. IMO No infinite PKT1, normal PKT1 endlag, less PKT2 endlag, No zap jump, and the new crazy awesome down+b would be the perfect combination for ness's recovery game. In the wrong hands it will be aweful, as it should be, in the hands of a pro it will be manageable. As long as he has a good enough game on stage to offset his awful recovery i think he will be a very viable character.

Brawl+:
Thank you so much for all your hard work WBR. I'm impressed that you are making these two characters viable without sacrificing those things that make them, them. I love how natural they feel while at the same time being great characters. I was originally afraid you would just boost Bowser's speed through the roof and make ness's recovery good, but you have maintained those things that make them who they are and have come closer to making them balanced. Bravo and Thank you.

 

[Shadic]

Can we up the priority of Ness' PKT2? The issue is people using sex-kicks or something to stop it, right?

(Yes, I know priority is... Interesting.. Based off hitbox size, damage, etc..)

 

[proteininja]

Can we up the priority of Ness' PKT2? The issue is people using sex-kicks or something to stop it, right?

(Yes, I know priority is... Interesting.. Based off hitbox size, damage, etc..)

I have never ever ever lost out to another move while doing PKT2.

Could be a coincidence. I think it already has insane priority.

 

[Swordplay]

Ness is the new Link

 

[The Cape]

My thoughts on my two favorite characters:

Bowser:
I enjoyed this change, but ask that if it stays SA be added to reverse crawl for the purposes of using his SA crawl as an all purpose spacing and approach tool.

We plan to when we have more line space

The buffed throws help him SOOO much. Getting the opponent off stage lets Bowser's edge guarding game shine.

B/F throw is going to get its angle changed from 20 to 35 because its a bit too strong, however it will still have the same power

I could not tell any difference with the up-tilt though i know it was changed to down and in front a teensy bit more. It was so utterly minute. Why do it at all?

The hitbox shift modifier code isnt reading right, once its fixed this will be fixed

The neutral air change is amazing. It says GTFO, and take your junk with you. I found myself almost unconsciously gimping with it. It was perfect for jumping out and hitting characters trying to pull in for tether. It is a great move, and i believe bowser is shaping up to be a great character.

Glad you like it

Brawl+:
Thank you so much for all your hard work WBR. I'm impressed that you are making these two characters viable without sacrificing those things that make them, them. I love how natural they feel while at the same time being great characters. I was originally afraid you would just boost Bowser's speed through the roof and make ness's recovery good, but you have maintained those things that make them who they are and have come closer to making them balanced. Bravo and Thank you.

Thank you for thanking us. It feels really nice to get praise since I personally spend about 20+ hours a week on this project collecting data, finding change ideas, testing etc as well as my normal duties at work and I always appreciate it when people appreciate us.

And on top of all that, we try to keep our characters staying different

 

[The Cape]

Can we up the priority of Ness' PKT2? The issue is people using sex-kicks or something to stop it, right?

(Yes, I know priority is... Interesting.. Based off hitbox size, damage, etc..)

On the weak hit I can see, but what about the strong hit?

 

[Deleted member]

Ness is the new Link

what does that even mean?
*not a link/ness main*

 

[Mattnumbers]

I think he means that Ness is going through a lot of changes similar to how Link got a bunch a while ago.

On a side note, I'm still gone, the hotel I'm in tonight just happens to have a computer room.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I think he means that Ness is going through a lot of changes similar to how Link got a bunch a while ago.

On a side note, I'm still gone, the hotel I'm in tonight just happens to have a computer room.

get a laptop :U

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

what does that even mean?
*not a link/ness main*

I think he means that Ness is going through a lot of changes similar to how Link got a bunch a while ago.

On a side note, I'm still gone, the hotel I'm in tonight just happens to have a computer room.

i thoguht it meant that they are good onstage but mainly have CRAP recoveries
*2nds link and uses ness a little*

 

[shanus]

lol no, he was remembering the awful days of when link mains were very confused and disgruntled about changes. But happy in the long run

 

[CountKaiser]

Matt, tell vector you found the computer room.

Sonic humor ftw.

On-topic: I like Ness now, and He should be given a fair chance now before people begin to whine about him. He feels good.

 

[Lil'E]

lol no, he was remembering the awful days of when link mains were very confused and disgruntled about changes.
But happy in the long run

Only time will tell.

In the meantime, I think I better start practicing with Lucas again.

Ness just feels too different and awkward now.



But, on another character... I thought Ganon's side B was no longer techable. Was that changed again or was it never fixed?

 

[shanus]

Only time will tell.

In the meantime, I think I better start practicing with Lucas again.

Ness just feels too different and awkward now.



But, on another character... I thought Ganon's side B was no longer techable. Was that changed again or was it never fixed?

You know he is only different regarding his upB right? You had Simna's build for like a week lol.

Ganons sideB is currently untechable through an ugly fix.