Brawl+ Matchup Chart

[Mattnumbers]

There have been many requests for a matchup chart and I think it's a good idea. As of now, putting down a matchup will be pretty loose so we can fill up spaces, but I will mark ones that have real constructive backing behind them (until they are the majority and then it will be the opposite way around)

This is meant to be revised constantly so if you don't agree with any matchups and have backing for your argument PLEASE TELL ME. Even if I don't personally agree if enough intelligent people tell me that that it is true and they have good points I'll change it anyways.

Another side note, these are not necessarily my personal opinions, so don't yell at me if you disagree with any of them.

CHART IS GO! THANK YOU CERO FOR MAKING THE CHART!

Key:
Purple: 80:20
Dark Blue: 70:30
Med Blue: 65:35
Light Blue: 60:40
Green: Even or very slight advantage
Orange: 40:60
Salmon: 35:65
Red: 30:70
Dark Red: 20:80

Here is a larger version

Stuff below is old, just keeping it for now incase I messed something up on the chart.
Bowser
Falcon: 40:60
Ike: 40:60
Lucas: 30:70
Jigglypuff: 40:60
Ness: 35:65
Captain Falcon
Bowser : 60:40
Charizard: 65:35
Falco : 40:06
Fox : 50:50
Ganondorf : 60:40
Ike : 45:55
Jigglypuff : 45:55
Kirby : 40:60
Link : 55:45
Luigi : 40:60
Mario : 50:50
Marth : 30:70
MK : 30:70
Ness : 50:50
Peach : 50:50
ROB : 30:70
Samus : 50:50
Sheik : 40:60
Snake : 40:60
Sonic : 60:40
Squirtle : 40:60
Toon. L. : 40:60
Wolf : 30:70
Yoshi : 30:70
Zelda : 30:70
Lucas: 35:65
Charizard
Falcon: 35:65
DDD
Ike: 40:60
Lucas: 45:55
Diddy Kong
Peach: 40:60
Donkey Kong
Ike: 45:55
Sonic: 40:60
Falco
Falcon 60:40
Ike: 50:50
Lucas 40:60
Jigglypuff: 35:65
Fox
Falcon: 50:50
Ike: 45:55
Jigglypuff: 50:50
Ness: 40:60
Sonic: 45:55
Game & Watch
Ike: 35:64
Lucas: 70:30
Ness: 70:30
Ganondorf
Falcon: 40:60
Ike: 45:55
Jigglypuff: 50:50
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff: 45:55
Ike
Falcon: 50:50
Mario: 50:50
Bowser: 60:40
DK: 55:45
Link: 45:55
Zelda: 55:45
Sheik: 50:50
G&W: 65:35
Ganondorf: 55:45
Samus: 45:55
Kirby: 40:60
MK: 50:50
D3: 60:40
Fox: 55:45
Falco: 50:50
Wolf: 50:50
Falcon: 55:45
Marth: 60:40
Snake: 60:40
Sonic: 50:50
Ivysaur
Sonic: 40:60
Jigglypuff
Bowser: 60:40
Falcon: 55:45
Falco: 65:35
Fox: 50:50
Ganon: 50:50
IC: 55:45
Lucas: 40:60
Marth: 30:70
Ness: 60:40
Peach: 55:45
Samus: 70:30
Sheik: 45:55
Kirby
Captain Falcon 60:40
DDD 60:40
Falcon: 60:40
Game & Watch 40:60
Ike: 60:40
Link 60:40
Lucas: 60:40
Luigi 40:60
Mario 50:50
Marth 40:60
Olimar 50:50
Ness: 65:35
Pokemon Trainer: 50:50
Sheik 60:40
Snake 40:60
Sonic: 30:40
Toon Link 40:60
Wolf 60:40
Yoshi 50:50
Zelda 40:60
Zero Suit Samus 40:60
Link
Falcon: 45:55
Ike: 55:45
Lucas: 55:45
Lucario
Lucas
CF: 65:35
Bowser: 70:30
DDD:55:45
Kirby: 40:60
Sheik: 45:55
Zelda: 40:60
Olimar: 60:40
Falco: 60:40
Marth: 35:65
Ness: 45:55
G&W: 30:70
Link: 50:50
Pit: 50:50
Jigglypuff 60:40
Luigi
Falcon: 60:40
Mario
Falcon: 50:50
Ike: 50:50
Marth
Falcon: 70:30
Ike: 40:60
Lucas: 65:35
Jigglypuff: 70:30
Sonic: 65:35
Meta Knight
Falcon: 70:30
Ike: 50:50
Sonic: 65:35
Ness
Bowser : 65:35
Falcon: 50:50
Fox : 60:40
Game & Watch: 30:70
Jigglypuff : 40:60
Kirby : 35:65
Lucas : 55:45
Peach : 35:65
Sheik : 55:45
Snake : 60:40
Sonic : 65:35
Squirtle : 30:70
Wolf : 65:35
Yoshi : 50:50
ZSS : 35:65
Olimar
Lucas: 40:60
Peach
Diddy: 60:40
Falcon: 50:50
Jigglypuff: 45:55
Ness: 65:35
Sonic: 65:35
Pikachu
Sonic: 55:45
Pit
Lucas: 50:50
Sonic: 50:50
Pokemon Trainer (All)
Kirby: 50:50
ROB
Falcon: 70:30
Samus
Falcon: 50:50
Ike: 55:45
Jigglypuff: 30:70
Sheik
Falcon: 60:40
Ike: 50:50
Lucas: 55:45
Jigglypuff: 55:45
Ness: 45:55
Sonic: 60:40
Snake
Falcon: 60:40
Ike: 40:60
Ness: 40:60
Sonic
Falcon: 40:60
Ike: 50:50
Marth: 35:65
Wolf: 40:60
Kirby: 40:60
Pit: 50:50
Pikachu: 45:55
Fox: 55:45
Sheik: 40:60
Zelda: 50:50
Donkey Kong: 60:40
Yoshi: 55:45
Ivysaur: 60:40
Peach: 35:65
Metaknight: 35:65
Ness: 35:65
Squirtle
Falcon: 60:40
Ness: 70:30
Toon Link
Falcon: 60:40
Wario
Wolf
Falcon: 70:30
Ike: 50:50
Sonic: 60:40
Ness: 35:65
Yoshi
Falcon: 70:30
Ness: 50:50
Sonic: 45:55
Zelda
Falcon: 70:30
Ike: 45:55
Lucas: 60:40
Sonic: 50:50
Zero Suit Samus
Ness: 65:35

 

[BIGM1994]

interesting, i wish i didnt lose my brawl +!

 

[stingers]

Lucas beats Ness...lmao

 

[kr3wman]

Spoiler

I was gonna post that 'WTF IS THIS ****' pic with the guy throwing the table but I won't.

I'd say Lucas:Falcon is more 6:4 than 7:3.

Maybe with the sped up PK fire in the nightly but not now.

EDIT : Lucas beats Ness, but Ness beats Lucas?

 

[zephyrnereus]

I might make a chart, but I remember that someone already made one a while ago... if no one can find it, I'll try to make one.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Lucas beats Ness...lmao

Stingers, Ness owns lucas in the air, and can gimp him more than most characters, whereas Lucas can only gimp Ness about as well as any other character since it's so easy to gimp him. If your just going to go "lol wrong Ness beats him" give me actual reasons.

And that is a good point kr3wman I forgot about the loss of PKF speedup, and that's a major part of Lucas's dominance in that matchup.

 

[Mattnumbers]

EDIT : Lucas beats Ness, but Ness beats Lucas?

What? No I put Lucas:Ness as 40:60 for Lucas and 60:40 for Ness.........

 

[kr3wman]

Looked like the opposite.

I don't know, I'm tired.

I'll put falcon numbers later.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

i'd say sonig has a 55:45 chance to beat Mario... (in sonic's favor)
because sonic has a superior ground game wiht tilts
mario's best weapon is nair

 

[stingers]

Lucas has SH Zair now...and Lucas has the best SH out of any Zair character...I can't wait to play some Ness' now

 

[Mattnumbers]

Lucas has SH Zair now...and Lucas has the best SH out of any Zair character...I can't wait to play some Ness' now

I haven't played against many Ness's since the new build came out so it might be different with the addition of Zair, your right.

 

[MK26]

Even though i think it's too early for a chart, i whipped up a blank grid real quick

http://www.mediafire.com/?tuzz5nywmdz

EDIT: wait, that's a tad too small...2 rows and 2 columns



EDITEDIT: scratch that, its the right size :D

Wait...you need 41 rows, right?

 

[Mattnumbers]

Lets see........yeah I think I need 41 total since there has to be one to put the names.

EDIT: The first row and column have to be big enough to fit the names of characters into

 

[PKNintendo]

Dude you aren't pulling this off anytime soon. But... I HATE waiting so we might as well have a go it.

Ness>Lucas stingers.

 

[MK26]

bawwww

cant you just leave it at icons? you'll be stretching the page enough as it is...

 

[Mattnumbers]

bawwww

cant you just leave it at icons? you'll be stretching the page enough as it is...

I guess I could, but I don't really know how to use gimp...........

Also, the chart needs two colors so that you can follow the lines more easily, It's gonna be a big chart so this is extra important.

Whoever makes this is my new best friend

 

[DarkDragoon]

Cool, now I have something to start with.
*runs to photoshop*
-DD

 

[RPGsFTW]

Here are the Brawl stock icons someone can use for the chart instead of names.

http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/ssbb/sheet/1241

 

[crazycrackers]

I've started a large discussion in the Peach+ thread about all her matchups so we can help with the Peach matchups for this chart.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Ok, be sure to post them here as you finish discussing certain ones.

 

[thesage]

sh zair does change the Ness vs. Lucas a lot to at least be even though. I always felt the matchups was even so =/

They both combo each other, they both edgeguard each other, they both can kill nicely, Ness has range, Lucas has speed.

It's a bare bones look at the matchup but yea I believe it's at least even.

Again, I haven't played a Lucas since I vs. stingers at herb2 in 1 friendly.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Eh, bare bones are bare bones. I'll fix it up and make it pretty. If anyone wants the .psd for it then I can send that to them too.

I got lazy and its 3am so I don't feel like typing in the rest of Lucas' little widgit match-ups.

Also, photobucket ***** it and made it small. Lol. Will imageshack or tinypic it later.
It says "bowser" in every box because I was writing all the character names in when they posted the sprite resource and I was too lazy to go back and delete a layer.

-DD

 

[RPGsFTW]

Ooh. That looks like it'll be promising soon. It's a nice "tired guy" start. =)

Can't wait to see it finished.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Yea, sucker is gonna be huge.
>_> should I put numbers in the boxes? Or just +, -, and =?

And then people can just refer to specific character threads for more match-up info?
Also: putting the info in the order that it would appear on the chart[top to bottom] would help.
-DD

 

[kciD]

Numbers would be more accurate, but would also cause more debate. I would start with +, -, and = until it's complete and mostly agreed upon, then start filtering in the numbers later on.

 

[jalued]

but falcon vs bowser at like 70:30

 

[MK26]

red, yellow, and green

<_<

 

[Sulfur]

red, yellow, and green

<_<

agreed. Makes it a whole lot easier.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Just put the NUMBER in red yellow and green.

That way you can tell at a glance or you can look at it closely.

Also, I think usually you are the one going down the left side and the top row is opponents.

Thanks a lot for doing this!

 

[Mattnumbers]

Yea, sucker is gonna be huge.
>_> should I put numbers in the boxes? Or just +, -, and =?

And then people can just refer to specific character threads for more match-up info?
Also: putting the info in the order that it would appear on the chart[top to bottom] would help.
-DD

In a bit I'll change the order of the characters in the OP to match the chart, right now I have to go somewhere soon so I'll get working on it in a couple hours.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Just put the NUMBER in red yellow and green.

That way you can tell at a glance or you can look at it closely.

Also, I think usually you are the one going down the left side and the top row is opponents.

Thanks a lot for doing this!

>_> I'll do color squares...and fill in the numbers later...when they're ironed out.

Or, like, they could go to their character threads and discuss.

-DD

 

[Mattnumbers]

OK, but do more than 3 colors if you will, I'd have 5 total, two for counters, two for advantage, and one for even.

 

[kr3wman]

For Falcon.

Bowser : 6:4
Falco : 4:6
Fox : 5:5
Ganondorf : 6:4
Ike : 5:5
Jigglypuff : 6:4? 5:5?
Kirby : 4:6
Link : 6:4
Lucas : 4:6
Luigi : 4:6
Mario : 5:5
Marth : 3:7
MK : 3:7
Ness : 5:5
Peach : 5:5
ROB : 3:7
Samus : 5:5
Sheik : 4:6
Snake : 4:6
Sonic : 6:4
Squirtle : 4:6
Toon. L. : 4:6
Wolf : 3:7
Yoshi : 3:7
Zelda : 3:7

Characters not in there are those I never played.

 

[Mattnumbers]

For Falcon.

Bowser : 6:4
Falco : 4:6
Fox : 5:5
Ganondorf : 6:4
Ike : 5:5
Jigglypuff : 6:4? 5:5?
Kirby : 4:6
Link : 6:4
Lucas : 4:6
Luigi : 4:6
Mario : 5:5
Marth : 3:7
MK : 3:7
Ness : 5:5
Peach : 5:5
ROB : 3:7
Samus : 5:5
Sheik : 4:6
Snake : 4:6
Sonic : 6:4
Squirtle : 4:6
Toon. L. : 4:6
Wolf : 3:7
Yoshi : 3:7
Zelda : 3:7

Characters not in there are those I never played.

I'm adding them, but I'm curious why you think falcon only goes 6:4 with bowser instead of the matchup being more swayed in his favor.

Also, I'm only going to lower the CF:Lucas matchup to 35:65 because I still think Lucas has a firm advantage.

 

[kr3wman]

Bowser is so gay and people think he's bad when he isn't.

 

[[TSON]]

OMG THIS x9000000000^

u_u

Also wth why does Jiggly have 40:60 Falcon it should be 55:45 or 50:50 at least

 

[Mattnumbers]

OMG THIS x9000000000^

u_u

Also wth why does Jiggly have 40:60 Falcon it should be 55:45 or 50:50 at least

I put down 45:55 cause kr3wman told me either 40:60 or 50:50.

I don't really have experience with the matchup, if you want to bring out points to change it then you're welcome to.

 

[[TSON]]

...It's Jigglypuff.

Falcon is a fastfaller.
Jiggly is incredibly light.

Falcon has knee, uair
Jiggly has bair, fair.

It's so unbelievably close.
There are no lopsided points.

Imo, 50:50 sounds right, maybe Jiggly's favor slightly as she has easy ways to get Falcon offstage with combos and proceed to edgerape.

 

[[TSON]]

And for Ness... IMO anyways...

Bowser : 65:35
Cpt. Falcon: 40:60
DK : 60:40
Falco : 45:55
Fox : 60:40
Ganondorf : 60:40
Game & Watch : 20:80
Ike : 55:45
Jigglypuff : 40:60
Kirby : 45:65
Link : 40:60
Lucas : 45:55
Luigi : 50:50
Mario : 55:45
Marth : Not entirely sure.
MK : 45:55
Ness : 50:50
Peach : 35:65
ROB : Not sure..
Samus : 30:70
Sheik : 55:45
Snake : 60:40
Sonic : 65:35
Squirtle : 30:70
Toon. L. : 40:60
Wolf : 65:35
Yoshi : 50:50
Zelda : 45:55
ZSS : 30:70

I wouldnt put any of that up yet because Ness thread's discussing matchups and I could be horribly wrong.. D:

But yeah.

 

[Mattnumbers]

You bring up good points regarding CF V. Jigglypuff. I'll change it to 50:50 until someone else has something to say about the matchup