Backstage_Nate
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2010
- Messages
- 5
Pardon - system flaked out and resulted in a double post.
-
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Brawl in the Cold - A Cold Con Tournament *RULE UPDATE*
- Thread starter Solharath
- Start date
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Lol everyone in this threads needs to stop crying. Host has final say. That's it. If you don't like the rules don't go, but if he wants to make the tournament noob friendly, I don't see anything wrong with that. Not saying I agree with IC's cg being banned, or MK being banned, but there has been way too much discussion in this thread over something you should not even complain about in the first place.
Roller
Smash Legend
Hey, I was at the last tourney at your shop and talked with you (I think it was you at least) a bit about M:tG and stuff after the tourney. First off, I'd like to say you're a cool guy and I like your shop quite a bit.
You mentioned M:tG as an example of justification for your rules. And the banning/restricting of certain cards in various formats. Here however, is where the 2 scenarios differ. Any bans/restrictions in the cardpool for a given format are decided by the DCI. A committee that produces a set of streamlined rules for all tournies across the country.
In the case of smash, we have our own version of this called the BBR (Brawl Back Room) which has it's own list of banned/restricted mechanics already. INCLUDING a restriction on the Ice Climber's chain grabs. Your tournament is using their rules (as stated in the OP) however you are making a drastic alteration to them that restricts the ability of many players [particularly in Michigan (the state with the largest number of Ice Climbers players BY FAR)] to do their best. Players who put in a lot of time and effort (More so than what is needed for any other character) to learn the advanced techniques they now know.
In M:tG terms, if I walked into your shop when Mirrodin was legal, before the ban of many of the cards in the Ravager Affinity deck (if you weren't open at this point, just bear with me for the sake of the point) and I walked in and ran the tournament winning almost all of my matches turn 4. Before some of my opponents have played more than 3 cards, and never drop a game to anyone. Would you ban the cards in my deck? Even though Wizards doesn't have them on the banlist? I suspect you wouldn't. Because that is not how you are supposed to run an M:tG tournament. Yes, the deck was blatantly unfair, and new players wouldn't even have a chance to really play the game. But I would have put in the time, money, and effort to assemble one of the top decks. Why should I not be able to play the deck I worked so hard on, just because other players aren't willing to put the same amount of time/money/effort into the game?
That is essentially what an Ice Climbers player is doing. Putting in hours and hours of research and practice to be the best they can be. And you are effectively saying. Well, Sorry. You try harder than everyone else and have researched the game more, so we are going to have to take away your character's key mechanic to give our less intelligent and less devoted players a shot in our "competitive" tournament.
Plus, Ice Climbers (ICs) aren't even CLOSE to as broken as Ravager Affinity. They can most certainly be beat, even destroyed. They just force you to adapt your gameplay. The fact that you can just seperate popo and nana and kill nana at ~10% with most characters by gimping her makes them one of the hardest characters to stay alive with in the game. Often one solid hit on them leads to them being separated and killed. The only compensation this otherwise awful character has is that they can do the same to their opponents. (Granted it is MUCH tougher for them than their opponents.)
In short, the community at large, as well as the BBR (our governing body so to speak) feel that the ICs infinites are more than fair considering their difficulty to perform, the awful grab range of the ICs, the ease with which other characters can kill them at absurdly low percents, and the fact that there are many legal stages, such as brinstar and rainbow cruise which are virtually auto-loses for Ice Climbers.
The other issue, which Lord Helmet mentioned a couple of pages back is that nobody will look any better as a player for winning a tourney with restrictions on mk or ICs. This takes away a huge chunk of incentive to come. You mentioned you need good players to help build the community. 2 of the people who provided rides from the east last time (with most of the legit players) main ICs. And one of them took me, another IC player. What is our motivation to come to a tourney that we wont get any respect for winning, will be a far distance to travel, and we can't use our main character at? Would you really go to a tournament like that if you were a serious player?
Also, I don't know if you've seen the current tier list for characters, but ICs are seventh on it. SEVENTH. That means there are 6 other characters in the current metagame that are doing more damage in tournaments than they are. Why would you take out the 7th best performing character? Would you ban the 7th best deck in Magic?
By doing this you are lowering the prestige, skill level, and incentive to go to your tournament. This in turn inhibits how much your community can grow to actually be competitive.
You mentioned M:tG as an example of justification for your rules. And the banning/restricting of certain cards in various formats. Here however, is where the 2 scenarios differ. Any bans/restrictions in the cardpool for a given format are decided by the DCI. A committee that produces a set of streamlined rules for all tournies across the country.
In the case of smash, we have our own version of this called the BBR (Brawl Back Room) which has it's own list of banned/restricted mechanics already. INCLUDING a restriction on the Ice Climber's chain grabs. Your tournament is using their rules (as stated in the OP) however you are making a drastic alteration to them that restricts the ability of many players [particularly in Michigan (the state with the largest number of Ice Climbers players BY FAR)] to do their best. Players who put in a lot of time and effort (More so than what is needed for any other character) to learn the advanced techniques they now know.
In M:tG terms, if I walked into your shop when Mirrodin was legal, before the ban of many of the cards in the Ravager Affinity deck (if you weren't open at this point, just bear with me for the sake of the point) and I walked in and ran the tournament winning almost all of my matches turn 4. Before some of my opponents have played more than 3 cards, and never drop a game to anyone. Would you ban the cards in my deck? Even though Wizards doesn't have them on the banlist? I suspect you wouldn't. Because that is not how you are supposed to run an M:tG tournament. Yes, the deck was blatantly unfair, and new players wouldn't even have a chance to really play the game. But I would have put in the time, money, and effort to assemble one of the top decks. Why should I not be able to play the deck I worked so hard on, just because other players aren't willing to put the same amount of time/money/effort into the game?
That is essentially what an Ice Climbers player is doing. Putting in hours and hours of research and practice to be the best they can be. And you are effectively saying. Well, Sorry. You try harder than everyone else and have researched the game more, so we are going to have to take away your character's key mechanic to give our less intelligent and less devoted players a shot in our "competitive" tournament.
Plus, Ice Climbers (ICs) aren't even CLOSE to as broken as Ravager Affinity. They can most certainly be beat, even destroyed. They just force you to adapt your gameplay. The fact that you can just seperate popo and nana and kill nana at ~10% with most characters by gimping her makes them one of the hardest characters to stay alive with in the game. Often one solid hit on them leads to them being separated and killed. The only compensation this otherwise awful character has is that they can do the same to their opponents. (Granted it is MUCH tougher for them than their opponents.)
In short, the community at large, as well as the BBR (our governing body so to speak) feel that the ICs infinites are more than fair considering their difficulty to perform, the awful grab range of the ICs, the ease with which other characters can kill them at absurdly low percents, and the fact that there are many legal stages, such as brinstar and rainbow cruise which are virtually auto-loses for Ice Climbers.
The other issue, which Lord Helmet mentioned a couple of pages back is that nobody will look any better as a player for winning a tourney with restrictions on mk or ICs. This takes away a huge chunk of incentive to come. You mentioned you need good players to help build the community. 2 of the people who provided rides from the east last time (with most of the legit players) main ICs. And one of them took me, another IC player. What is our motivation to come to a tourney that we wont get any respect for winning, will be a far distance to travel, and we can't use our main character at? Would you really go to a tournament like that if you were a serious player?
Also, I don't know if you've seen the current tier list for characters, but ICs are seventh on it. SEVENTH. That means there are 6 other characters in the current metagame that are doing more damage in tournaments than they are. Why would you take out the 7th best performing character? Would you ban the 7th best deck in Magic?
By doing this you are lowering the prestige, skill level, and incentive to go to your tournament. This in turn inhibits how much your community can grow to actually be competitive.
DRDN
Smash Master
lol no char is banned just a technique that is essentially a OHKO (and what Neutrals cause a break in the ICs CG)
I think if an ICs user won a tournament where the CG was banned they would get respect simply because most people think thats all they can do(sound like your thoughts based on the last post)
and again this isnt a major tournament this is a CON tournament made for more people to spark an interest but you seem to want to cut off any interest just because you cant have whatever ruleset YOU want quit crying and either play by the rules or dont go
EDIT: I say what neutral because first round has to be on a neutral so thats an autowin for ICs if theres nothing to break that CG then you get to pick either RC or Brinstar so you can fight but even it you win that the ICs get to pick a stage thats another auto win for them
I personally dont care about Ics CG I've been wanting to play Lain since I started getting decent and my friend said he beat him in tourney before but your making such a fuss over a rule the host is making when as you said for the D3 standing CG if your good you should PICK A SECONDARY
I think if an ICs user won a tournament where the CG was banned they would get respect simply because most people think thats all they can do(sound like your thoughts based on the last post)
and again this isnt a major tournament this is a CON tournament made for more people to spark an interest but you seem to want to cut off any interest just because you cant have whatever ruleset YOU want quit crying and either play by the rules or dont go
EDIT: I say what neutral because first round has to be on a neutral so thats an autowin for ICs if theres nothing to break that CG then you get to pick either RC or Brinstar so you can fight but even it you win that the ICs get to pick a stage thats another auto win for them
I personally dont care about Ics CG I've been wanting to play Lain since I started getting decent and my friend said he beat him in tourney before but your making such a fuss over a rule the host is making when as you said for the D3 standing CG if your good you should PICK A SECONDARY
Backstage_Nate
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2010
- Messages
- 5
You're right in that I wasn't open for the Mirrodin block but yes, actually, with something as blatantly broken and hindering of the playability of the game for the environment I would institute a local ban. I have in fact at the outset of organized play here instituted a policy along that line, wherein when someone face stomped several weeks in a row with the same deck I asked them to play something else going forward. It was a known policy, such decks had a month-long life and it forced them to move on and not rely on the same combo over and over again. The players affected weren't happy at first, but grew to appreciate the policy when they saw what was going on. Today the policy isn't needed, the base has stepped up and they are much better at helping new players integrate.
Now, is this a move that is appropriate for the DCI? Nope. But, I am actually in touch with the local player base and can act or react to them better. And, in our case, that right there helped kick off the events down at the store. It helped the good players become better because they had to stay ahead of the curve knowing their deck would "rotate", the weaker players knew they could show up and not CONSTANTLY get beaten by the same thing, and it still achieved the goal of helping new players build their game.
Like the above, I am not keen on something that is essentially an insider technique being used in a tournament where, if all goes well, most players will not be experienced Smash players. It'd be like walking into a store with Ravager Affinity to play a dozen guys with Portal or straight out of the box Intro decks. Just because they're new doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance to learn, and gutting them with a world tournament level deck right out of the gate does nothing to improve their interest in the game. I do what I do in the interests of maintaining the local environment, the interest, and fostering the skill level without pummeling them.
As to skill, frankly, if its the tools that define you I can't say I think much of the player then. With nearly any game there tools and items that are unavoidable, but the vast majority of the time a good player is a good player period. If you know how to play, you can kick *** with a deck of commons just as easily as a deck of rares. Rares make it easy, but other builds are viable.
So yea, maybe this isn't going to be an event for those people looking for a serious challenge. And in part, the rule requests that I have made are made with the intent of keeping players from owning with the same routine over and over. If that's too much to ask, if you cannot play without doing so, then I suppose this isn't an event for you. Again, I'd like to have experienced players who can help show new players how to step up their game. It is my feeling and my experience however that unfettered use of infinite cycles and broken combinations does more to turn players off of a game, any game, than it does to help. Players still have to play to learn from their mistakes.
Now, is this a move that is appropriate for the DCI? Nope. But, I am actually in touch with the local player base and can act or react to them better. And, in our case, that right there helped kick off the events down at the store. It helped the good players become better because they had to stay ahead of the curve knowing their deck would "rotate", the weaker players knew they could show up and not CONSTANTLY get beaten by the same thing, and it still achieved the goal of helping new players build their game.
Like the above, I am not keen on something that is essentially an insider technique being used in a tournament where, if all goes well, most players will not be experienced Smash players. It'd be like walking into a store with Ravager Affinity to play a dozen guys with Portal or straight out of the box Intro decks. Just because they're new doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance to learn, and gutting them with a world tournament level deck right out of the gate does nothing to improve their interest in the game. I do what I do in the interests of maintaining the local environment, the interest, and fostering the skill level without pummeling them.
As to skill, frankly, if its the tools that define you I can't say I think much of the player then. With nearly any game there tools and items that are unavoidable, but the vast majority of the time a good player is a good player period. If you know how to play, you can kick *** with a deck of commons just as easily as a deck of rares. Rares make it easy, but other builds are viable.
So yea, maybe this isn't going to be an event for those people looking for a serious challenge. And in part, the rule requests that I have made are made with the intent of keeping players from owning with the same routine over and over. If that's too much to ask, if you cannot play without doing so, then I suppose this isn't an event for you. Again, I'd like to have experienced players who can help show new players how to step up their game. It is my feeling and my experience however that unfettered use of infinite cycles and broken combinations does more to turn players off of a game, any game, than it does to help. Players still have to play to learn from their mistakes.
Sumer
Smash Ace
Still a little confused by this post. o.e Not sure what kind of advertising requires hundreds of dollars, assuming 20 or 30 people show up, that couldn't easily be done for free if looked into. Not sure what fees are associated in hosting an event outside of renting the venue, which this still shouldn't be more than $50-100 max, meaning maybe a $2-5 venue fee max. And I don't think a host would go broke from hosting a tourney, even with a small venue fee they should easily break even. When I hosted my tourney, I almost had to charge a venue fee because I thought my venue might require money to rent out, and if I had to I wasn't going to make it more than $5 a person (the standard), but after already telling everyone there wouldn't be a fee, I planned to pay for renting the venue out of my pocket to ensure my entrants had the most fun without being turned off from all of the money needed just to play. And the last comment confuses me. "Its either a venue fee or a smaller pot". Why would I have to pick between these options? A venue fee = a smaller pot. No venue fee = more people would want to come since it costs less, which = a larger pot. And I was never answered about whether or not bringing a set up meant a waived venue fee, or if you already have 15-20 set ups ready to host this tourney efficiently. Also, is the $10 entry fee for singles AND doubles? Not trying to argue anything, just clearing up things, since I don't think any of my previous questions were answered from this post. :3
Backstage_Nate
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2010
- Messages
- 5
Sumer: Trust me, advertising costs money. For the local event I hosted at the store it cost me $100 for a week's worth of radio ads. This one in particular is a game at a convention, which means a bigger overall event and more advertising, its not just a Smash event so we want to reach a broader audience. This is including advertising in tabletop gaming mags and on gaming sites and two days at the venue. We're still arranging equipment and are talking with local rental companies to see who would like to sponsor the event by allowing use of equipment.
Door should be $5 per day with a break for a 2-day pass, I did have a chance to check with the organizer of the show and that's what he has down. Beyond that, there are breaks to be offered for equipment and even for showing up in costume, what exactly I still don't have the details on but it'd take a few bucks off the top.
As to the venue fee or smaller pot remark, mind I'm not too terribly familiar with how other events are run or what exactly you are used to, but its generally meant to say either a venue fee is charged up front or something is taken out of the event buy-in/prize pool to make up for it. Individuals might be able to host the occasional thing out of pocket or rotate between friends, but I am a business and for an event here at the store it consumes my time and my store space, which means I need some compensation for effectively shutting down for the day. This game as a con game costs money and time to pull the whole of the event together and likewise couldn't be done without some kind of compensation.
Door should be $5 per day with a break for a 2-day pass, I did have a chance to check with the organizer of the show and that's what he has down. Beyond that, there are breaks to be offered for equipment and even for showing up in costume, what exactly I still don't have the details on but it'd take a few bucks off the top.
As to the venue fee or smaller pot remark, mind I'm not too terribly familiar with how other events are run or what exactly you are used to, but its generally meant to say either a venue fee is charged up front or something is taken out of the event buy-in/prize pool to make up for it. Individuals might be able to host the occasional thing out of pocket or rotate between friends, but I am a business and for an event here at the store it consumes my time and my store space, which means I need some compensation for effectively shutting down for the day. This game as a con game costs money and time to pull the whole of the event together and likewise couldn't be done without some kind of compensation.
Roller
Smash Legend
I got beat by affinity at my first DCI sanctioned tourney, by the current #1 ranked player in NJ. It inspired me waaaaay more to get better at the game than barely losing to a worse deck would have done. I wanted to be able to **** like that, so I joined a couple of the main M:tG forums, and researched the top decks, as well as playtested/goldfished with most of them. This, along with practicing with some high level players really helped improve my game, to the point where I was able to start getting to the semi/finals at events. If a player barely loses to a player they perceive as being "good" they aren't going to think they have as much to learn, in which case they wont try quite as hard as someone who just got destroyed.
I got dead last at my first tournament, it did NOTHING but inspire me to look at myself as a player, practice more, and get better. Those who don't care enough to improve will get weeded out, yeah. But those individuals wouldn't be trying to improve in any other type of environment either. I play against people like the top ICs player in the country multiple times most weeks. I usually get my butt handed to me, but I've been improving from watching/learning from him.
Could I beat the locals with pikachu? Sure, barring a surprise excellent player. But the fact of the matter is that pikachu, just like any other character (except metaknight) has some pretty bad matchups. Some characters pikachu has very few options against, and a worse player can win against a better one because of it. I do need ICs vs a few characters (when playing decent players) because they are part of "mixing it up" for me. I don't main ICs, but I definitely need them to beat a field with good players in it. In addition, players learn matchups vs each character. In each of these matchups, a player knows his goal in it, and how to achieve them. For instance when an olimar plays vs a pikachu it's goal is to camp, run away, and build up damage from a safe distance. Because of these goals and matchups that we learn, EVERY character has a somewhat predictable gameplan that they use time and again. Not just ICs. Yet none of the others are being forced to change. Just the SEVENTH character on the tierlist. And I mean, if you are going to ban IC's chaingrabs, might as well ban pikachu's too. I can 0-death plenty of characters with him. Not to mention set up quick attack locks which can lead to a free thunder kill. Why not ban falco's too? If the player is new, then they aren't going to be able to survive his chaingrab into spike. Why not ban sheik's forward tilt lock? She can combo fox to death with it. Let's ban metaknights downtilt lock too! Why not ike's infinite backthrow against any wall? There are 110 broken techniques in this game, and you are deciding to isolate one and get rid of it. Why just the one?
I got dead last at my first tournament, it did NOTHING but inspire me to look at myself as a player, practice more, and get better. Those who don't care enough to improve will get weeded out, yeah. But those individuals wouldn't be trying to improve in any other type of environment either. I play against people like the top ICs player in the country multiple times most weeks. I usually get my butt handed to me, but I've been improving from watching/learning from him.
Could I beat the locals with pikachu? Sure, barring a surprise excellent player. But the fact of the matter is that pikachu, just like any other character (except metaknight) has some pretty bad matchups. Some characters pikachu has very few options against, and a worse player can win against a better one because of it. I do need ICs vs a few characters (when playing decent players) because they are part of "mixing it up" for me. I don't main ICs, but I definitely need them to beat a field with good players in it. In addition, players learn matchups vs each character. In each of these matchups, a player knows his goal in it, and how to achieve them. For instance when an olimar plays vs a pikachu it's goal is to camp, run away, and build up damage from a safe distance. Because of these goals and matchups that we learn, EVERY character has a somewhat predictable gameplan that they use time and again. Not just ICs. Yet none of the others are being forced to change. Just the SEVENTH character on the tierlist. And I mean, if you are going to ban IC's chaingrabs, might as well ban pikachu's too. I can 0-death plenty of characters with him. Not to mention set up quick attack locks which can lead to a free thunder kill. Why not ban falco's too? If the player is new, then they aren't going to be able to survive his chaingrab into spike. Why not ban sheik's forward tilt lock? She can combo fox to death with it. Let's ban metaknights downtilt lock too! Why not ike's infinite backthrow against any wall? There are 110 broken techniques in this game, and you are deciding to isolate one and get rid of it. Why just the one?
Sumer
Smash Ace
Oh, I see. So it's a two day event, and each event is $5 to enter. Well, I'll call a housing spot now, since I don't feel like driving back and forth each day if I end up coming. <.<
And Roller is right. I learn a lot more from getting ***** than barely winning/losing, but I do understand banning them since they appear to be one of the more broken things in brawl on the surface (people who are new to the game and think it's easy to do), but he does bring up a point that anyone can pick Falco and cg spike inexperienced people 3 times and win. @.@
And Roller is right. I learn a lot more from getting ***** than barely winning/losing, but I do understand banning them since they appear to be one of the more broken things in brawl on the surface (people who are new to the game and think it's easy to do), but he does bring up a point that anyone can pick Falco and cg spike inexperienced people 3 times and win. @.@
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
The last few pages of this thread have been kind of pointless.
I may go if I can find a ride (which I usually do somehow). The potential shenanigans with the rules seem "eh" but whatever. People need to understand both sides before they start jumping down peoples' throats.
I may go if I can find a ride (which I usually do somehow). The potential shenanigans with the rules seem "eh" but whatever. People need to understand both sides before they start jumping down peoples' throats.
Backstage_Nate
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2010
- Messages
- 5
Well Roller, every TO has their own methods for nurturing a community. Some/many prefer the "throw everyone in the pool and see who swims" method. And in some communities, and for some people, that method works. Locally, I know from experience that it doesn't work for *this* community. Nurturing interested players, letting them gain ground and become more experienced before getting thrown against Ravager-equivalent matchups works better here. Personally, I feel that's in general, but as I said every TO for any game has their own ideas. For each player like you that's instantly inspired, several others are put off who could otherwise make decent contributions to the environment. I know several of my local MtG players who would have walked away from something like Ravager, especially if they paid out a chunk of change to get said buttocks handed to them. Today they are some of my better local MtG players, and they help bring new folks into the game. Much of this is because they were eased into play, and they can help ease new folks in.
Casual/friendly play is another matter, you don't have that feeling that you actually lost something besides a bit of pride and the opponent is more likely to say "Hey, you have a good idea, but here's how you can improve..."
As to your mentions of the other techniques, I admit I am not fully up to speed on all moves. From my discussions with Miles and what I do know, I *did* zero in on MK and IC; he's the one who lobbied for the restrictions that are in place instead of what I was originally thinking. Those two struck me as the characters with which their abilities were universally capable of locking players out of the game. I don't care if one character is amazing against another, but when something is universally good to the point it becomes a matter of "why DON'T you use it?" then its a concern. Its why DCI bans/restricts what it does (for instance, if you could run four copies of each Mox, why run basic land at all?), its why they made the changes to the ruleset they did in M10; even simple cards Mogg Fanatic, Sakura Tribe Elder, and their like created no-choice situations. Block, kill, get kewl stuffz. No choice, no interaction, means you're not playing.
If it helps, consider this a newbie-friendly event then. Is it an event of massive prestige? Of course not, this is like the third area Smash event and the first held at this convention. Could it grow into something one day? Maybe, but not if the local crowd is beaten into oblivion. Like I said, if you want to help a community get its legs, you're more than welcome to come on up. If you want serious competition you're probably better off sticking with your other events for the time being. We'll get there at some point, we have a great community overall and fast learners, but we're not there competitively and our audience doesn't respond to shock and awe losses in tournaments.
Casual/friendly play is another matter, you don't have that feeling that you actually lost something besides a bit of pride and the opponent is more likely to say "Hey, you have a good idea, but here's how you can improve..."
As to your mentions of the other techniques, I admit I am not fully up to speed on all moves. From my discussions with Miles and what I do know, I *did* zero in on MK and IC; he's the one who lobbied for the restrictions that are in place instead of what I was originally thinking. Those two struck me as the characters with which their abilities were universally capable of locking players out of the game. I don't care if one character is amazing against another, but when something is universally good to the point it becomes a matter of "why DON'T you use it?" then its a concern. Its why DCI bans/restricts what it does (for instance, if you could run four copies of each Mox, why run basic land at all?), its why they made the changes to the ruleset they did in M10; even simple cards Mogg Fanatic, Sakura Tribe Elder, and their like created no-choice situations. Block, kill, get kewl stuffz. No choice, no interaction, means you're not playing.
If it helps, consider this a newbie-friendly event then. Is it an event of massive prestige? Of course not, this is like the third area Smash event and the first held at this convention. Could it grow into something one day? Maybe, but not if the local crowd is beaten into oblivion. Like I said, if you want to help a community get its legs, you're more than welcome to come on up. If you want serious competition you're probably better off sticking with your other events for the time being. We'll get there at some point, we have a great community overall and fast learners, but we're not there competitively and our audience doesn't respond to shock and awe losses in tournaments.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Honestly though I see this 2 day event as a great opportunity for the locals to learn some more competitive aspects of this game. I definitely wouldn't mind playing the teacher role for those who are willing to learn and find out where they need to be competitively. Metro Detroit is the epicenter of our Smash scene and naturally we'd be further long than other area. 98% of the tournaments are held here and players here have many a opportunity to grow. West Michigan does not have that. So while we do not agree with their method of banning IC infinite but we need to at least understand how. If you're going to argue at least be civil about it. In the end its not our decision its theirs.
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
Just wanted to let you guys know, I'm opening up my house(I do live with the 'rents, though, so be mindful of any noise ya make). I pretty much own the upstairs and my mom's pretty cool with the idea of multiple guys staying over for the first night, and/or second if need be. But yeah, I live on the second floor by myself and we're currently doing some remodeling that should actually be done by this tournament.
However, I will say I do want to limit housing to the guys I've met, so everyone who came to Smashing the Backstage is eligible, as is DRDN, Van, Youko, and the rest of the guys I played at Youmacon(I was wearing a blue shirt when I was down in the gaming room, and I'm a pretty big guy). And if I have room, Tech_Chase, because he's Tech_Chase.
Only limitations is that there is no alcohol. Sorry guys, but I'm twenty and, as said, kinda my 'rents house here. But I got a lot of room here, enough for five to six extra people, easy.
However, I will say I do want to limit housing to the guys I've met, so everyone who came to Smashing the Backstage is eligible, as is DRDN, Van, Youko, and the rest of the guys I played at Youmacon(I was wearing a blue shirt when I was down in the gaming room, and I'm a pretty big guy). And if I have room, Tech_Chase, because he's Tech_Chase.
Only limitations is that there is no alcohol. Sorry guys, but I'm twenty and, as said, kinda my 'rents house here. But I got a lot of room here, enough for five to six extra people, easy.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
<3
10 <3s
But no alcohol makes me a very sad panda.
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
This is more of a bump than adding anything new to topic, but I do want to mention that when I mentioned housing, I meant that the people I met had first dibs, not that people I hadn't can't house here. I was reading my post over and even I furrowed an eyebrow at it. Which means Sumer, you're alright to stay here. Just remember that I live 20 minutes from the Venue, but that is seriously not an issue, as I go to college at the venue.
So yeah, if we got room, I can house a car full or two of people. Depending on how comfy you guys are with floors/sharing beds. I'm really interested to see if the StepDad and I can finish the other room to any sort of livable space - at least for those with air mattresses.
I'll edit if I find out anything new within the space of a couple days, unless it's important.
So yeah, if we got room, I can house a car full or two of people. Depending on how comfy you guys are with floors/sharing beds. I'm really interested to see if the StepDad and I can finish the other room to any sort of livable space - at least for those with air mattresses.
I'll edit if I find out anything new within the space of a couple days, unless it's important.
Sumer
Smash Ace
Awesome! =D And bump~
So yeah, I believe that despite all this **** that has happened in this thread, Michigan should still go to this. Michigan should organize a huge carpool I'd pay gas money if people were willing to go to this. Michigan should start organizing to go soon.
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
So should Northern Indiana and Northeastern Illinois, considering it's just about the same amount of driving. I make that drive a lot(in comparison to others). 10-20 miles more from Chicago than Ann Arbor.
I'll be talking with the main hosts of Cold Con tomorrow, so I'll be able to give out some more news then, like what else you can expect while there, see what I can do for set-ups on location, etc.
And remember to get at me if you're coming overnight(and considering how early we start Sunday, should be everyone who is coming period, minus GR/Lansing people). Depending on how hard me 'n my stepdad work, I could have open spots ranging from 5 (without floor, but 2 to a queen/double bed, I really don't know my mattress sizes) to upwards 8 or 10(with floor. Air Mattresses from those coming would be recommended).
I'll be talking with the main hosts of Cold Con tomorrow, so I'll be able to give out some more news then, like what else you can expect while there, see what I can do for set-ups on location, etc.
And remember to get at me if you're coming overnight(and considering how early we start Sunday, should be everyone who is coming period, minus GR/Lansing people). Depending on how hard me 'n my stepdad work, I could have open spots ranging from 5 (without floor, but 2 to a queen/double bed, I really don't know my mattress sizes) to upwards 8 or 10(with floor. Air Mattresses from those coming would be recommended).
Rizk18
Smash Lord
This tourney again? This **** is stupid, its so far from everyones home, its 5 hours away from me which is WAY to far. Not coming sorry.
DRDN
Smash Master
Is there any chance for a dubz tourney?
Roller
Smash Legend
UofM is on spring break this weekend. So I'll be home in NJ.
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
You mean Doubles? Yeah, that starts at 8 on Saturday. Singles starts on Sunday.
Miles Since there is a Blacks Ops tourney that will be all day until the Doubles tourney starts, would you consider running a $1-$3 Mid Tier side tourney during the free play hours? It would be a great way for people to warm up and its pretty cheap.
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
Fantastic idea, Ori. I'll be talking to the guys to see if I can run it on the side. Plus it would give me more stuff to run during the 'Con. Right now I'm trying to get in contact with the main host(Apparently he's a tough dude to get ahold of), to see if we're set on TV's that aren't, y'know, LCD. I myself am bringing a couple well-sized TV's, and we have Three Brawls, 5 Wiis, and a couple rental controllers in-so-far, and I did just nab the attention of three extra people yesterday.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
MI carpool? Let's get it.
Sumer
Smash Ace
I'd like Mid-tier. =D Maybe mid-tier doubles if there's time. XD And I'm probably driving Lansing/EL if WTP doesn't.
/carpool
/carpool
What's The Point
Smash Master
I'm more likely to go if you drove Sumer, but I doubt I'll go if I have to drive myself.
If this is true I will find a way to EL and get in this carpool lol.
Tech if this **** goes down like we all want it to, do you wanna bust out that Florida **** in doubles?
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
lol sure Ori.
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
By the by, I updated the rules last night. I think it'll be a bit more pleasing - Also, the stages are using the standard, now, but I may add 2 more to the starter list later, for the sake of variety.
But yeah, the ruleset as it stands now is lifted from KTAR and TC's Smash Cafe, with edits here and there, like LGL and such.
But yeah, the ruleset as it stands now is lifted from KTAR and TC's Smash Cafe, with edits here and there, like LGL and such.
Sounds good, but when I read the part of Gliding under the stage 3 times, does that apply for say me vs Sumer, or Sumer vs Local #7?
Also I wouldn't mind if you decided to go with a 7 stater list. I actually enjoyed it at Smashing the Backstage.
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
Well, actually it's called 'scrooging'. It's another stalling tactic I've noticed when jumping from vid to vid on Youtube. Some characters can do it fast enough that those on stage can't make it to the other side in time, or they can reverse it without a problem.
Basically it's to spam the invincibility frames while remaining generally untouchable and stall the match. Although I really don't need to explain it - you probably knew exactly what it was for. Honestly? Treat that rule like you would the IC rule - check with your opponent, see if it's okay, and then check with a judge to see if it's alright. But ask for that rule check after characters have been chosen.
Basically it's to spam the invincibility frames while remaining generally untouchable and stall the match. Although I really don't need to explain it - you probably knew exactly what it was for. Honestly? Treat that rule like you would the IC rule - check with your opponent, see if it's okay, and then check with a judge to see if it's alright. But ask for that rule check after characters have been chosen.
awesome thanks for making it clear
L_Cancel
Smash Champion
Good chance I'll make this. lol
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Probably because it isn't like hours away like all the other ones lol
WHERE IS THE CARPOOL FOR THIS SHIZ?
:3
Sumer and EL are offering a carpool. You and me need to find a way there!