Brawl+ community feedback organisation

[ShiftingShadows28]

Ok so I may be a nobody here but please hear me out..

Having followed the 'Brawl+ is getting out of hand' thread for the past hour or so it came to mind that the people in charge/the programmers need an easier way to recieve feedback from us all.

The Problem:

All ideas and requests are being posted in one massive thread(ie the brawl plussary thread which now has over 400 pages) making it impossible to organise and read every suggestion.

My Fix

I suggest that someone important makes a 'Change Index' thread(or what ever it may be called) listing all the characters. Under each characters name there should be a list of changes that are currently being discussed by the people working in the back room and/or by the community.

A thread should then be made for each character where anyone can put forward opinions on that characters changes and links to each thread put in the Change Index thread.

This way the developers may be enlightened to new points of view and it could make their life easier by basing descisions on common opinions of the community.

Please discuss my Fix or put forward your own or tell me how neccessary you think this may be to get brawl+ back on track.

 

[illinialex24]

I sincerely doubt this will work. Someone would have to look after each thread and where are we even going to post them. We'd have to make a new subforum and so much of it would be pointless.

 

[Yingyay]

I think this should've been an idea brought to the heads of the boards instead of another topic that might get closed since we already have a nightly builds feedback thread

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

I really think it would make the whole process run alot smoother. I had thought about a subform too but maybe this thing is a bit radiclist idk..

Edit: Also a subform will be made for brawl+ eventually im guessing so why not now, to aid the development?

 

[Sukai]

There are dozens of ways to submit feedback, and the WBR tends to all of them, if your suggestion is that serious, you can always PM them.

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

Maybe organisation isnt as bad as I had imagined then but still, it could be better. Ah well it was worth a try.

 

[lordhelmet]

I would love to see this happen, but it's unlikely.

=/

 

[Zodac]

they should stop randomely buffing average moves, problem solved.

e.g. sonics down smash and ganons jab

 

[Yingyay]

I'd like Falco's reflector changed back to normal but falco mains want their refelector to do more than reflect. >_>
If Wolf couldnt have it why does falco? Even if it aint OP, it doesnt need to be there.

 

[metaXzero]

I'd like Falco's reflector changed back to normal but falco mains want their refelector to do more than reflect. >_>
If Wolf couldnt have it why does falco? Even if it aint OP, it doesnt need to be there.

Wolf mains didn't care as much as Falco mains?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I'd like Falco's reflector changed back to normal but falco mains want their refelector to do more than reflect. >_>
If Wolf couldnt have it why does falco? Even if it aint OP, it doesnt need to be there.

Wolf mains couldn't have it because it was 'broken' (until they can get KBG to work with it). I am as much of a supporter of the Wolf shine buff as I am the Falco shine buff, and I still hope Wolf gets it back when it is fixed, much like the Falco shine buff when it was broken (in the "doesn't work properly" sense of the word, rather than Wolf's "I can infinite Fox easily" sense of the word).

 

[Revven]

they should stop randomely buffing average moves, problem solved.

e.g. sonics down smash and ganons jab

Ganon's jab was terribly slow, it helps him get people off of him.

Sonic's Dsmash was rarely used, a very situational move turned into something more useful. However, it is going to be slowed down I believe or at least wind-down will be added to it.

And we're not "randomly" doing these buffs, we have our reasons and you should know them, especially Ganon's jab, nobody has had a problem with that since we made the change... it's been there for months.

 

[Shell]

FYI, Ganon's jab was the very first change we ever officially agreed upon and added to the change agenda in the old Brawl+ forums. If you genuinely doubt it's importance then I can dig up my old post about it and PM it to you.

You have the right idea about not wanting to buff good characters too much, but you're a little off with your examples.


Also, we scour these forums for feedback. Additionally, a PM or Wall post will definitely get any of our attentions. Finally, hop on the IRC or AIM for more ways to leave feedback. I think that adding a list of past suggestions to the top of one of our threads could be helpful for not repeating suggestions, though.

 

[Yingyay]

Ganon's jab was terribly slow, it helps him get people off of him.

Sonic's Dsmash was rarely used, a very situational move turned into something more useful. However, it is going to be slowed down I believe or at least wind-down will be added to it.

And we're not "randomly" doing these buffs, we have our reasons and you should know them, especially Ganon's jab, nobody has had a problem with that since we made the change... it's been there for months.

Ganon's jab is.....okay, you kinda get locked in when he hits it off sheild but I think its escapeable tho. I've done it a couple of times.
Sonics Dsmash was already addressed
And these buffs arent random, people request, if it sounds good its added, but if its found out to be ridiculous (lucario's upB which is getting fixed) then its removed.
Praise be to the Coders. lol

 

[Biinii]

Better not talk about move fixes and stuff out of the right threads. Every single suggestion is getting attached with the moves issue. It's getting annoying. You can't visit a thread with a suggestion like this without someone coming and complaining about moves.

A list of suggestions seem very nice(with direct links to the posts?), mainly for people who like to post their thoughs(maybe even valid ones) and don't have the time to the skim the entire plussery/nightbuilds thread.

 

[Zodac]

why was lucario's Up B changed?
Ness's UP B?
Falco's shine?
Links whole moveset?
kirby's F smash?
game and watch down smash?
lucas' up smash's speed?
wolf's shine?
bowsers fair?
bowsers up B

YES YOU JUST BUFFED HIS 2 BEST MOVES@!@!????

does up smash mean anything to you? (not attack you personaly but the backroom)

charizards fair? again, a great move.

falco's lasers needed the exact same hitstun as Vbrawl not a damage reduction, many people expressed this.

ravor leaf, the most normal move i can think of...METABUFFED!
ONE POINT 5 TIMES METABUFF

i know it's a beta but and the group is just experimenting but some of the moves chosen are just silly when there are much better options.

Also yoshi got nothin...and this is coming from the biggest yoshi hater in the world.

 

[CountKaiser]

Lucario Up-B was done to allow some type of hitbox after the attack, it's going to be sped down in the next set.

Ness Up B was because simply touching the PKT1 caused Ness to die, now it requires skill to actually edgeguard Ness.

Falco's new shine allows him another set up for a combo other than his lasers. According to falco mains, his combo game, while good, is a bit stale

Kirby and G&W's fsmash and dsmash respectively were spammable for their power, and were brought in line.

Lucas usmash is a subtle buff to make it more useful. It can still be easily punished.

Wolf's shine was taken out, as it gave him a set up for a free kill move

Link's moveset sucked, lol, so it was revamped from the ground up.

Bowser changes were done so that Bowser could **** people like he should.

The fourth hit of charizards fair did not make people flinch at all, so that was changed

At this time, projectile hitboxes cannot be modified. The laser hitstun was due to the hitlag it induced, and hitlag globally took a major hit to make the game flow better. The damage reduction was done in exchange for the falco shine buff.

Razor leaf, beforehand, was useless. Now it can be used to pressure, or lead into a grab. Although the speed up might have been much.

Yoshi got a dsmash buff, and he is going to receive damage buffs to his throws.

And what's wrong with Yoshi? D: He's a cool guy. He lays eggs and he don't afraid of anything.

 

[Almas]

Most non-item projectiles can be modified.

 

[Rudra]

Stuff

Lucario: The general consensus was that it was too fast right?

Ness's PKT: Too easy to gimp (just place yourself in the middle of it =/), but it may or may not be implemented.

Falco's shine: Visit the Falco Boards

Links whole moveset: Visit the Link Boards, he sucked apparantly

Wolf's shine: Ask them. His Shine was a good combo breaker, but maybe they wanted something more from it? Idk. It just couldnt have its KBG modified so it was too good.

NINJA'D

Charizards fair:
It was already pretty good, but it has a really silly Phantom hit like property at the tip, which means that to use it effectively you'd have to go into the main part of it. It became a better aerial spacing tool with the fix imo.

Falco's lasers needed the exact same hitstun as Vbrawl not a damage reduction, many people expressed this.

It was a tradeoff for his Shine (along with it being slowed down slightly). His lasers had more hitstun in VBrawl, or was that because of the electric hitlag?

Razor Leaf: You can jab/nair them with relative ease. They are quite effective though.

 

[Yingyay]

Lucario: The general consensus was that it was too fast right?

Ness's PKT: Too easy to gimp (just place yourself in the middle of it =/), but it may or may not be implemented.

Falco's shine: Visit the Falco Boards

Links whole moveset: Visit the Link Boards

Wolf's shine: Ask them. His Shine was a good combo breaker, but maybe they wanted something more from it? Idk.

Charizards fair:
It was already pretty good, but it has a really silly Phantom hit like property at the tip, which means that to use it effectively you'd have to go into the main part of it. It became a better aerial spacing tool with the fix imo.




It was a tradeoff for his Shine (along with it being slowed down slightly). His lazers had more hitstun in VBrawl, or was that because of the electric hitlag?

Razor Leaf: You can jab/nair them with relative ease. They are quite effective though.

Ness: Agreed his recovery is *** so this helps him.....kinda

Falco's shine: Im tired of arguing against it. Let them keep it until they figure out that the most a reflector should do offensively is to push the person away, not fling them into a attack.

Link: He's fine...let it rock

Wolf's Shine: I believe its back to normal and should stay that way

Charizard's fair: This was tweaked? It was perfect before, thats kinda....not cool.

Ivy's razor leaf: who da heck is gonna sit there jabing the thing all day? When you get hit then what? Leave it the way it was. It was fine before, why is Ivy given buffs anyway? I dont understand how people agree to nerf a good character over the bad ones first. Physics changes are fine, they help the character feel like how they should feel based on their play style. Link is great now cuz of it. I understand there was some over-buffs and nerfs here and there, but come on. It would be avoided if there was more concentration on the character. Meaning people should actually play the character for more than one stock and clearly know the character. Not every move needs to be SUPER. if its fine, let it rock. If it sucked (Ness;' recovery) fix it. If it aint broke dont fix it.

Not angry btw, just pouring my feedback out.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Wolf's Shine: I believe its back to normal and should stay that way

If by "normal", you mean being able to combo into fsmash and dsmash due to heavily reduced cooldown buff (2x faster), then yes, it's back to "normal".

I do think a few things are over the top, such as Ivy's Razor Leaf, and Zelda's/Lucario's Up-B speed increases. but the BR are already taking steps to rectify these. I would still like to see the Up-Bs being used as they are now, just in a more punishable format though. Other than that, I have no problem with the "overbuffs".

 

[Yingyay]

If by "normal", you mean being able to combo into fsmash and dsmash due to heavily reduced cooldown buff (2x faster), then yes, it's back to "normal".

I do think a few things are over the top, such as Ivy's Razor Leaf, and Zelda's/Lucario's Up-B speed increases. but the BR are already taking steps to rectify these. I would still like to see the Up-Bs being used as they are now, just in a more punishable format though. Other than that, I have no problem with the "overbuffs".

You could do that in vBrawl. But if it really does that every other time, then thats kinda....yea

Lucario's problem is that he goes to far and unless you grab the edge a split second when he dashes at it, he's practically ungimpable. (I know its being changed)

Zelda's, its not so bad, I mean nerf it a bit so that she lags when landing. Thats about it.

Ivy'z razor leaf needs to go. Its too fast and practically safe as heck. Falco's Fox's and Wolf's lasers at least have cool down time. Ivy barely has and can rapid fire.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

You could do that in vBrawl. But if it really does that every other time, then thats kinda....yea

I don't believe you could combo a dsmash off of the shine in vBrawl. But with the cooldown buff, it was specifically tested by shanus to guarantee a fsmash or dsmash, regardless of percent. They may or may not alter it, as I haven't heard any news about that from any BR representative, but that's just how it operates now.

Ivy'z razor leaf needs to go. Its too fast and practically safe as heck. Falco's Fox's and Wolf's lasers at least have cool down time. Ivy barely has and can rapid fire.

This we agree on. Having seen it/faced it in action in BtL, it's too good how it is currently. I even picked up Ivysaur seriously today for the first time (I've messed around with him a few times) and SHDRL just ***** everyone I fought. Of course, since I just started to play Ivysaur seriously, take that with a big grain of salt and listen to Ivysaur mains WAY before my opinions on RL. But being a Falco main, I'd like to think I'd recognize an extremely good SH double projectile when I see one. ._.

 

[Yingyay]

I don't believe you could combo a dsmash off of the shine in vBrawl. But with the cooldown buff, it was specifically tested by shanus to guarantee a fsmash or dsmash, regardless of percent. They may or may not alter it, as I haven't heard any news about that from any BR representative, but that's just how it operates now.



This we agree on. Having seen it/faced it in action in BtL, it's too good how it is currently. I even picked up Ivysaur seriously today for the first time (I've messed around with him a few times) and SHDRL just ***** everyone I fought. Of course, since I just started to play Ivysaur seriously, take that with a big grain of salt and listen to Ivysaur mains WAY before my opinions on RL. But being a Falco main, I'd like to think I'd recognize an extremely good SH double projectile when I see one. ._.

Lol I just picked up Falco seriously. And yes having to deal with SHDL is no fun at all. I can tell because I had too much fun doing them. Most characters cant solidly approach it without having to do something epic. (bowser has to double jump over them or tank them for example) Ivy having them too? Pfft gtfo. lol
How was BTL anyway? I wanted to go with the NYC crew but im short on cash lol.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Lol I just picked up Falco seriously. And yes having to deal with SHDL is no fun at all. I can tell because I had too much fun doing them. Most characters cant solidly approach it without having to do something epic. (bowser has to double jump over them or tank them for example) Ivy having them too? Pfft gtfo. lol
How was BTL anyway? I wanted to go with the NYC crew but im short on cash lol.

Ivy's might actually be better than Falco's. Keyword being might, I'd need more time to examine Ivysaur personally, but I think...

Falco's SHDL...

~ comes out faster
~ has longer range
~ travels faster
~ better for keeping opponents off the edge
~ valid approach option (Ivysaur seems like he covers too little distance during a short hop for RL to be viable)

Ivy's SHDLR...

~ ends faster
~ does more damage
~ longer lingering hitbox (this seemed to **** SHAD attempts to approach)
~ has a larger vertical radius to cover more vertical distance (and hit shorties that normal SHDLs can't hit, or even crouching opponents that SH silent lasers can't even hit)
~ can alter its flight path slightly, which sort of ties in to its better vertical radius.
~ better for keeping opponents off the stage (as in opponents coming from the ledge back onto the stage)
~ can be shot once in one direction and again in the opposite direction? lol who knows, it might come in handy 1/1000 games? Don't take this part too seriously

Just my current analysis. May end up subject to change with more Ivysaur playtime, but it just seems to marginally beat out the Falco SHDL.

BtL was awesome though. JCaeser invited me to ride with him and the rest of MD/VA, but I had work early morning that day. Originally I was planning to split gas money with one of my local friends and have him tag along, but he had work from 12-7. So I ended up going by myself. Toll roads ***** me there and back though lol.

The things I do for Brawl+...<3

Anyway, long story short (since this is technically off-topic), you should've been there. Good tourney with strong competition.

 

[Yingyay]

Ivy's might actually be better than Falco's. Keyword being might, I'd need more time to examine Ivysaur personally, but I think...

Falco's SHDL...

~ comes out faster
~ has longer range
~ travels faster (may or may not be a more preferable aspect, depending on whether you see my point for Ivysaur as a valid pro)
~ better for keeping opponents off the edge
~ valid approach option (Ivysaur seems like he covers too little distance during a short hop for RL to be viable)

Ivy's SHDLR...

~ ends faster
~ does more damage
~ travels slower (this seemed to **** SHAD attempts to approach, which is why it might be considered preferable to traveling faster.)
~ has a larger vertical radius to cover more vertical distance (and hit shorties that normal SHDLs can't hit, or even crouching opponents that SH silent lasers can't even hit)
~ can alter its flight path slightly, which sort of ties in to its better vertical radius.
~ better for keeping opponents off the stage (as in opponents coming from the ledge back onto the stage)
~ can be shot once in one direction and again in the opposite direction? lol who knows, it might come in handy 1/1000 games? Don't take this part too seriously

Just my current analysis. May end up subject to change with more Ivysaur playtime, but it just seems to marginally beat out the Falco SHDL.

BtL was awesome though. JCaeser invited me to ride with him and the rest of MD/VA, but I had work early morning that day. Originally I was planning to split gas money with one of my local friends and have him tag along, but he had work from 12-7. So I ended up going by myself. Toll roads ***** me there and back though lol.

The things I do for Brawl+...<3

Anyway, long story short (since this is technically off-topic), you should've been there. Good tourney with strong competition.

T_T
I wanted to friendly some out people outside NYC's finest.
Is the finals up on youtube err something? I cant find any footage of the tourney

 

[jalued]

i fully support this idea, cause atm, u have to trawl through 3 or 4 different topics to find out peoples opinion. just think it would help with feedback on each character, and should have information on what the programmers are thinking of changing, to mkae sure that most people agree with this direction (which could save ALOT of time)

well done shifting, good job mate :D

if u cant really organise making a whole thread for each character (understandable since there are so many characters and it would be alot of effort to manage)

however!!!

there should be a BRAWL+ update thread, which tell the people what is thinking of being changed/added/remove and what should be expected, so that people can try and give feedback of ideas/direction etc and hopefully make this more of a group project

 

[Arkaether]

Um, the Nightly Build thread?

 

[jalued]

Um, the Nightly Build thread?

doesnt talk abotu upcoming updates though

 

[Arkaether]

The WBRs occasionally talk about things they're going to change.

 

[BEES]

I originally advocated for Falco's reflector buff, but in its current form it is too powerful. In hindsight, I think it should be returned to the same physics as before, with a slight speedup on the end frames, merely to make punishing it less of a guarantee.

In exchange for losing the shine buff, I propose a dtlit buff. Speed it up like the utilt and extend the hitbox behind him a bit. Keep the lasers nerfed.

Everything would be dandy then. Falco would get his combos but without the godlike-impenetrable approach the current shine causes.

 

[Arkaether]

"godlike-impenetrable approach"?

Not quite.