Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[BSL]

Agreed. We should start putting in official stages. Like the minus ones MU made. Or were those not for minus?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Thank god you nerfed that monster bair!

It was a typo on my part when I made the first build of Wolf - back then.

It was supposed to be weaker, yes, haha, don't even ask me how I typo'd that.

Who the hell are you?

yo guys please put in frozen pokemon stadium 2, wario ware, and that SSE jungle stage, sure we can add it ourselves but then we cant use them in tournament and those stages are great. ESPECIALLY frozen ps2.

PS2 is incredible when you don't freeze it, I don't know what everyone's problem is. It's actually quite a bit better than PS1 when unfrozen. When frozen it's just another lame battlefield clone.

As far as official Brawl- stages go, expect big things. Also, expect the stages to not quite conform with what quite a lot of you hold to be "good". At least until we figure out how to edit hitboxes instead of just remove them (do not expect much of that, or freezing for that matter).
PS2 is a perfectly competitive stage in vBrawl and Brawl-, there's no reason to change it (although if we could make those treadmills on the electric transformation reverse, that would be ****ing hilarious, and air could be better with a slightly lower push, or maybe even a gravity increase ).
PTAD-? Expect one small change, and that's gonna be ledges; good players don't get hit by the cars. Neither do bad players who know how to play the stage.
Spear Pillar minus? We're working on this, but don't expect us to get rid of very many, if any of the hazards.
WW-? Is it possible to just turn off the rewards, or make them uniformly a 10-15% heal? Because then it's a reasonable-looking stage... Although we'd have to up the blastzone distance a little bit AFAIK. But for the moment, a frozen version is a good idea.
FD-? Let's see if we can find out how to port Norfair's lava over this :V (jk obv; that would be battlefield-)

We have some stuff to work on... However, we could probably easily hack extra stages in. SSE Jungle, a frozen copy of PS2, sure thing... Something's gotta replace that janky WWR (which really should go out in the next release as it is a very, VERY bad stage).

EDIT: I speak for myself on this one, not for the team.

 

[Revven]

But it's not a battlefield clone.... it only has 2 platforms. It becomes like one of the best neutrals in the game when it's in the neutral form of the stage. I don't know how you can like the original PS2 at all, every transformation gets in the way except for ground.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

But it's not a battlefield clone.... it only has 2 platforms. It becomes like one of the best neutrals in the game when it's in the neutral form of the stage. I don't know how you can like the original PS2 at all, every transformation gets in the way except for ground.

Define "gets int the way"? You mean like the transformations on PS1 get in the way? PS2 is a perfectly legitimate stage with a moderate learning curve, instead of just another boring flat+plats. If we can copy the stage and use one version frozen, one unfrozen, then that's awesome. Otherwise I am very heavily against freezing it.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I actually support the inclusion of Frozen PS2.

I still want to add the Skyworld fix as well.

 

[LordJax]

Who the hell are you?

I see you're quite the hostile person.

Let me repeat it : I'm the one who made the first Alpha of Wolf back then, and I was surprised that the bair wasn't changed yet... atleast it is now.

 

[DunnoBro]

i hate ps2.

Wind part is one big camp fest.
Treadmill part ****s up spacing, and makes camping so easy with some chars.
Ice part isn't awful, but it's pretty annoying.

Just freeze the **** thing. Or make no wind push.
No tread mill traction
No slide on ice.

 

[JOE!]

no items

Fox only

final destination

 

[DunnoBro]

no items

Fox only

final destination

No Johns.

Curry Only.

Hanenbow.

 

[The Sex Puma]

TSON's name scares me.

 

[bajisci]

im very salty u prefer unfrozen ps2 over frozen ps2 despite it becoming by a large margin the best, fairest, most balanced stage in the game

 

[Ulevo]

I'd agree. Keeping it unfrozen is a complete waste.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I see you're quite the hostile person.

Let me repeat it : I'm the one who made the first Alpha of Wolf back then, and I was surprised that the bair wasn't changed yet... atleast it is now.

I'm hostile because I thought you were just looking for credits. I'm fairly sure I'm right... The guy who made the first wolf is someone else; I've actually never heard of you.

i hate ps2.

Wind part is one big camp fest.
Treadmill part ****s up spacing, and makes camping so easy with some chars.
Ice part isn't awful, but it's pretty annoying.

Just freeze the **** thing. Or make no wind push.
No tread mill traction
No slide on ice.

What joe said. Honestly, some parts of it need a slight lowering (in fact, in the spirit of B-, I would see if we can get things like more grav on wind, or inwards pull on the treadmills. There is NOTHING wrong with ice), if only to please the scrubby annoying crowd.

im very salty u prefer unfrozen ps2 over frozen ps2 despite it becoming by a large margin the best, fairest, most balanced stage in the game

Really? Is it? Where are you getting this statement from?

 

[Revven]

Let's see BPC, it has two plats that are evenly placed for any character to take advantage of, the edges aren't ******** like PS1, the boundaries are good neither too big or too small, and... it's flat. I think that sounds like the best neutral in the game to me, compared to FD with its curved ledges (if you don't use the fixed FD ofc) and big boundaries and rather high ceiling.

Normal PS2 has probably the most annoying hazards in the game. I don't care if they're not actual hazards like the cars on port town, they disrupt the flow of the match. Having the ******** wind messes up spacing with anything that you SH or FH, messes with your timing of some stuff and in return buffs chase options (yet if your character has terrible mobility in the air they can hardly go anywhere anyway just up). And allows for stupid stalling options with certain recovery moves.

The only one that's tolerable on it is Ground as I said previously, but even that is stretching it because the dumb little mountain it has makes people like CF go crazy with traction.

That's just my opinion of normal PS2. I didn't even talk about electric and we all know how dumb that transformation is, it literally forces you to platform camp or even plank (if you can) until the transformation is over.

 

[Izaniki]

While I love frozen PS2, I think if it's possible to do some of the stuff BPC is talking about (HIGHER grav on wind stage, reverse the lightning treadmills, etc), it would be a fun stage at the very least. Depending on how it worked out, it could be a great stage. We could always just add in an SSE stage that works like it does (I think the stadium SSE stage is like that, right?) so we don't lose a good neutral, right?

 

[Revven]

You could but SSE Stadium doesn't have two plats like PS2 does.

 

[Izaniki]

Oh For some reason I was thinking it did.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Let's see BPC, it has two plats that are evenly placed for any character to take advantage of, the edges aren't ******** like PS1, the boundaries are good neither too big or too small, and... it's flat. I think that sounds like the best neutral in the game to me, compared to FD with its curved ledges (if you don't use the fixed FD ofc) and big boundaries and rather high ceiling.

Aren't you forgetting the real reason that FD is a ****ty starter stage? The ledges, boundaries, and ceiling are not even remotely an issue in comparison. >.<

Normal PS2 has probably the most annoying hazards in the game. I don't care if they're not actual hazards like the cars on port town, they disrupt the flow of the match. Having the ******** wind messes up spacing with anything that you SH or FH, messes with your timing of some stuff and in return buffs chase options (yet if your character has terrible mobility in the air they can hardly go anywhere anyway just up). And allows for stupid stalling options with certain recovery moves.

Let's focus on where you say "it messes up your spacing". Yes, it messes up your spacing. Except, *gasp* you know it's going to do that, and you know by exactly what degree. It forces you to adapt, which is actually a really, really good thing. It allows for minor stalling during the segment, which usually leaves your opponent in a bad position (above you). It sucks for some characters, but guess what-it's a counterpick stage.

The only one that's tolerable on it is Ground as I said previously, but even that is stretching it because the dumb little mountain it has makes people like CF go crazy with traction.

Wait, what? Ice? As in, the single least obstructive stage transformation in any PS?

That's just my opinion of normal PS2. I didn't even talk about electric and we all know how dumb that transformation is, it literally forces you to platform camp or even plank (if you can) until the transformation is over.

This is not really an issue... Is it? See also: PS1's transformations.

 

[DevilKiller]

I support a frozen PS2 as well...on the individual transformations. Freeze the wind/fan transformation, and make a cosmetic stage hack that makes it look like everyone is falling off a cliff.

As usual, I have no idea if that is possible...so meh.

Olimar has a chance of plucking different Pikmin based on the terrain he stands on, is that correct? I'm thinking he can gain an advantageif he waits for a transformation and starts plucking White/Purple/Electric Pikmin.

Whatever is done to the scrolling stages, I want to feel like I'm on an EPIC adventure, or some sort of weird story progression. Maybe speed them up and remove the obstacles?

Noob idea trollin' is fun.

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

is foxes wavedash code the same one that's used in the most recent sets of P:M(the one's from apex with shiz)?

 

[Izaniki]

No, unless it has been changed recently. Fox- WD is imbedded directly into his PAC, whereas the P:M one is a universal code (as far as I know). The Fox- one isn't quite as polished as the P:M one either.

 

[DarkPikmin]

Typo on 1.6 luigi's changelist?

"ALL AERIALS HAVE LANDLAG AGAIN ;O. Bair and Uair landlag 1.5x speed. Nair has 0.8x speed. Uair is normal."

You have 'Uair' listed twice with no mention of 'Dair'.

 

[standardtoaster]

Should we include the no special fall after glide attack code in the next release? Vid showing off my code:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGxzjSTTy0U

 

[Izaniki]

Should we include the no special fall after glide attack code in the next release? Vid showing off my code:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGxzjSTTy0U

Oh god, yes please! I hate that too
Does the code not work on Shuttle > GA on purpose or is it just not complete yet? :o

 

[[TSON]]

Typo on 1.6 luigi's changelist?

"ALL AERIALS HAVE LANDLAG AGAIN ;O. Bair and Uair landlag 1.5x speed. Nair has 0.8x speed. Uair is normal."

You have 'Uair' listed twice with no mention of 'Dair'.

oh! Thank you for noticing. Dair would be 1.5x speed.

 

[DarkPikmin]

oh! Thank you for noticing. Dair would be 1.5x speed.

Oh and while we're at it, did anything happen to Fair? That move is soooo broked

 

[[TSON]]

Yes it was nerfed to not link into itself but still keep its staple GTFO and combo finishing niches.

 

[DarkPikmin]

Yes it was nerfed to not link into itself but still keep its staple GTFO and combo finishing niches.

Aww R.I.P. Fair double spikes... you will be missed.

 

[[TSON]]

No you won't. :E

 

[DarkPikmin]

I sure will miss them... It's a shame pikachu didn't get ner- *is shot*

Oh and it looks like my baby lucario is still strong ;D <3 you Brawl-

 

[standardtoaster]

Oh god, yes please! I hate that too
Does the code not work on Shuttle > GA on purpose or is it just not complete yet? :o

MK going to special fall from shuttle loop glide attack is actually coded in his pac, my code didn't affect that. I'm glad it kind of did. :V

 

[MonkUnit]

Hello, I am the main developer of the minus stages, so far none of them are at all good enough to be kept and used in a release. See my Jungle Japes- or Norfair- on smashmods.

I am currently making a norfair-, idea was from TSON, make the safety container huge and sit on a bed of lava, I am almost done with it.

If you guys wouldn't mind, please post some ideas for some minus stages, as I am having trouble coming up with ideas. Keep in mind hitboxes on stages cannot be added or edited yet or at all.

 

[Ulevo]

Just wanted to mention that Toon Link's grounded Spin is much too powerful. I suggest toning it down.

 

[Izaniki]

Just wanted to mention that Toon Link's grounded Spin is much too powerful. I suggest toning it down.

Are you talking about the uncharged version? Because that's already been toned down once (the uncharged was as strong as the full charged at one point).

I think that the slow start up on being able to move makes it easy to avoid/punish, and you can also attack from above and knock them out of it (IIRC). I could see maybe lowering the speed at uncharged a little bit from where its max is now, but I haven't found it to be too OP. The fully charged version takes a good while to actually charge, so its incredible speed seems justified, in my experience.

Are you seeing it spammed to the exclusion of other attacks? Or just not able to hit someone out of it?

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Um... I experienced a glitch of some sort... I guess...? Maybe it's a real broken move? 0.o

As soon as I hit Diddy once he was using his recovery on the ground, the recovery was successful, but it ended up making the barrel blast equip stood on midair. When I go to it, it has a VERY huge hitbox like something invisible is surrounding it and it hits me at a decent knockback with decent damage...

EDIT
Nvm, lol. It's setup as a trap sooo... ok. o,o

Also, if you thought of making this balanced... ICs' hobbling technique can still be performed where they can grab after the iceblock forces them to stand up, which is like a chaingrab, lol. Unless it was intentionally kept, then nevermind I guess.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Are you talking about the uncharged version? Because that's already been toned down once (the uncharged was as strong as the full charged at one point).

I think that the slow start up on being able to move makes it easy to avoid/punish, and you can also attack from above and knock them out of it (IIRC). I could see maybe lowering the speed at uncharged a little bit from where its max is now, but I haven't found it to be too OP. The fully charged version takes a good while to actually charge, so its incredible speed seems justified, in my experience.

Are you seeing it spammed to the exclusion of other attacks? Or just not able to hit someone out of it?

It's a massive attack that moves, is hard to punish... It's probably not overpowered but it's really really good.

 

[Ulevo]

It's hitbox is absolutely ridiculous. There have been times where it's hit me as Meta Knight when I went to space a dair above Toon Link. Nothing I use horizontally will even remotely come close to beating it. It overrides most options for many characters that are not transcended priority projectiles.

I'd argue it's more than really, really good. Toon Link's just not good enough as a whole for it to push him over the edge of "too good" by Brawl Minus's standards.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

What WOULD make Toon Link OP is if you couldn't powershield the last hit of his dtaunt. That thing is monster if it ever works. I LOVE IT.

 

[Izaniki]

I'd be happy if his SH'd arrows could make it to the ground before disappearing lol

 

[Thunda-Moo]

That would be crazy. Just... Crazy. So, is TL invincible during his dtaunt? It looks like it.