Data Bowser's Top 8 Custom Movesets

[Amazing Ampharos]

So, is Fire Roar being hilarious the only merit it has? If there's general agreement that really Bowser should just always take default Fire Breath if the purpose of the selection is to win (I've heard love for Fire Shot elsewhere, but the argument against seems pretty convincing so it may be that actual Bowser mains would never pick it), his four supplemental slots could be used on other moves. If there are people who would actually pick it though, it should probably somehow be included.

Is Turbulent Bomb definitely better than Slip Bomb due to hitting on the way up? I know default is generally best here, but I think some handful players are definitely going to want to bring a bomb variant for the safety even if it can be reasonably argued it's a bad idea. Both variants have a lot of functional overlap with each other so it's probably smartest to pick out whichever one is actually better than the other and go with it. So far it doesn't seem like there's a clear consensus on this though.

I've seen some love for Sliding Fortress and not really any arguments against its niche. I'm pretty much (like 99%) sure that default Whirling Fortress is best overall, but if the custom here has purpose, it might be worth including for specific match-ups?

 

[Flayl]

I think the several people saying Fire Roar is better for them because it has better damage and range - with no real tradeoff due to spare of use - are giving it more merit than "hilarity".

 

[B!squick]

Yeah, Fire Roar is basically free damage whereas default Fire Breath is less safe and will generally be used about as much. It's not unusual for me to go a whole game without using Fire Breath, let alone one or two times. Fire Roar offers exactly what I need as often as I need.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

This is what I got from the Bowser thread on reddit.

X32X; personal preference being 2321 - 10 upvotes

1211 and 1311 are the two crucial ones. Next 4 would be: 1221, 1321, 3211, and 3311 - 6 upvotes (Toxicroaker)

1211
1321
1311
3211
1221
3311
2222
3333 - 2 up vote

3323 & 3321 personal preference to the first one - 0 upvotes

2311- 0 upvotes

 

[Ranias]

This is what I got from the Bowser thread on reddit.

X32X; personal preference being 2321 - 7 upvotes

1211
1321
1311
3211
1221
3311
2222
3333 - 1 up vote

3323 & 3321 personal preference to the first one - 1 upvote

Not sure why Flying Fortress combinations are being upvoted so much.

Up B out of shield with Whirling Fortress is too good.

 

[Hitman JT]

Unless the patch changed it, I'm pretty sure Slip Bomb does indeed break shields. I tested it with someone a couple weeks ago right before the patch hit.

 

[MrEh]

Unless the patch changed it, I'm pretty sure Slip Bomb does indeed break shields. I tested it with someone a couple weeks ago right before the patch hit.

It's worse at breaking shields because Slip Bomb does not have a rising hit.

The last two hits of a Bomb do not break a full shield without the rising hit.

 

[Hitman JT]

It's worse at breaking shields because Slip Bomb does not have a rising hit.

The last two hits of a Bomb do not break a full shield without the rising hit.

News to me. I have yet to see anyone shield the 2 hits of either bomb and not have it broken unless they powershielded.

 

[Toxicroaker]

News to me. I have yet to see anyone shield the 2 hits of either bomb and not have it broken unless they powershielded.

Then the shields most likely already had damage prior to the bowser bomb. I can say from experience that it doesn't break a full shield.

 

[Funkermonster]

Thoughts on Turbulent Bomb and Dash Slash?

 

[MrEh]

Dash Slash is good because it clanks with or beats most attacks and allows you to approach and maneuver yourself.

Turbulent Bomb sucks.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Here's my favourite: 1221

• Usually, I'd take the move with the least amount of charge so it becomes even safer, but Bowser's Flame Breath has decent charge, especially since I don't overuse it, I never run out of charge with it and I kinda like it.
• The Dash Slam is the better one, simply because of the dash and lower vertical distance, making it an even safer punish move. Of course, I'm pretty sure the knockback took a hit, but it's not like the SideB is Bowser's only kill move, right?
• Flying Fortress is incredible. Sure, horizontal distance is gone forever, but once you get used to it, your survival skills are much, much better.
• Bowser Bomb is probably the hardest of his down specials, but also the most rewarding of them, and I love challenges.

 

[MrEh]

• Flying Fortress is incredible. Sure, horizontal distance is gone forever, but once you get used to it, your survival skills are much, much better.

Horizontal distance aside, you also lose out on one of the fastest OoS options in the game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Horizontal distance aside, you also lose out on one of the fastest OoS options in the game.

I mainly use the UpB as a recovery, so I don't really care. Besides, a well-timed Bowser Bomb is a much more devastating OoS option (especially if the first hit connects)

 

[MrEh]

Besides, a well-timed Bowser Bomb is a much more devastating OoS option (especially if the first hit connects)

Bowser Bomb OoS is also 12 frames slower and only punishes insanely unsafe stuff to begin with.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Bowser Bomb OoS is also 12 frames slower and only punishes insanely unsafe stuff to begin with.

Meh, I ain't gonna argue with you, he's just my secondary, but still, Bowser Bomb is a little risky and I know it, but you gotta admit that if you do pull it off, it is extremely rewarding.....

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Up B 1 is sacred. I use it to approach sometimes, I use it OOS always, I use it when I dont feel like I have any other options because it and jab are bowser's fastest moves, and its overall vital to my Bowser playstyle. I also tend to use default fire breath, because I use it often. I've been trying Side B 3, but I really dont see the merits of the Slash when Dash Slam exists. The slash isnt very strong and has no kill potential, and using it sacrifices a great move, even if it is now unsafe to use near edges a lot of the time.

Im only torn between Default Bomb and Slip Bomb. Slip loses the rising hit but seems to be safer on dodge, kinda like dair...

 

[Ranias]

I've been trying Side B 3, but I really dont see the merits of the Slash when Dash Slam exists. The slash isnt very strong and has no kill potential, and using it sacrifices a great move, even if it is now unsafe to use near edges a lot of the time.

Dash Slash is good against Rosalina because it can KO Luma easily. You can also Waveslash more easily when using Dash Slash. Basically all of Bowser's moves are KO moves, so sacrificing Dash Klaw which has the potential to even get you killed because of the broken Bowsercide mechanic isn't that bad.

Im only torn between Default Bomb and Slip Bomb. Slip loses the rising hit but seems to be safer on dodge, kinda like dair...

You already have Dair for being safer on dodge. I enjoy using the default bomb more because of its ability to break shields. Default bomb is also more powerful, and since it can hit on the way up, you can use it for a grounded punish out of shield on many things.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Dash Slash is good against Rosalina because it can KO Luma easily. You can also Waveslash more easily when using Dash Slash. Basically all of Bowser's moves are KO moves, so sacrificing Dash Klaw which has the potential to even get you killed because of the broken Bowsercide mechanic isn't that bad.

I forgot about the Rosaluma matchup; yeah that's useful. I like using Slam to rack up damage, and it doesn't usually get me killed unless I'm near an edge, in which case I begin to regret my life choices.

 

[Uncle]

Here are my thoughts.

B: Fire Breath, all the way. I sprinkle in plenty of fire breath harassment in my matches, so I want that quicker recharge time. Fire Roar has merit, but not for my style of play. Fire Shot is awesome conceptually, but the execution is.........bleh.

Side B: Dash Slash wins in my book, but an argument can be easily made for Dash Klaw, as well. Klaw has great damage and knockback, but the disjoint being gone is a bummer, along with the whole "they can possibly survive a Bowsercide, you can't" thing. Dash Klaw has the sexy "approach + grab" thing going for it, but the significantly nerfed damage and knockback (along with the previously mentioned Bowsercide problem) are the costs. Dash Slash has an even longer dash than Dash Klaw, the ability to plow through certain attacks, and your opponents can't force you to kill yourself. The damage/knockback is pretty low, and you completely lose your command grab, though.

Up B: Whirling Fortress, and there's no contest. OOS Fortress is too good to pass up. Flying Fortress is a great recovery move, but all of the fortress moves are well above-average on the recovery scale, thanks to the Marvel-esque mashing mechanic. Are you really gonna give up your OOS power for a slightly better recovery? Sliding Fortress gives you great horizontal distance while recovering and while using it onstage, but it loses the meaty "grinder" aspect of Whirling Fortress. Instead, this fortress only hits once for minimal damage and knockback.

Down B: Bowser Bomb has my vote. The rising hit, the unholy shield damage, and the damage/knockback reward are things of beauty. Turbulent Bomb gains enhanced safety with the windboxes and keeps the rising hit, but the rewards for actually hitting with the move are pitiful in comparison to the other bombs. Slip Bomb has the intriguing "trip quake," but the rising hit is gone, along with a noticeable bit of damage and knockback on the falling hit.

In the end, I'd say the best Bowser movesets are....

1211
1311
3211
3311

 

[Funkermonster]

So I take it the sideb customs are the only ones worth using? That's a bummer for Bowser. ..

 

[B!squick]

So I take it the sideb customs are the only ones worth using? That's a bummer for Bowser. ..

Not really. The default ones are just THAT good and Dash Klaw/Slash solves that little problem with horizontal air movement that certain monkeys, ninjas, and swimsuit wearing bounty hunters don't have. Bowser is alright without it. With it, he becomes amazing.
And after some thinking and watching MrEh, I think 1311 is the optimal custom move set up.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

So I take it the sideb customs are the only ones worth using? That's a bummer for Bowser. ..

In the end, the point of customs should be to get a character to their fullest potential. People just felt like Dash Slash was just the right touch to get him to his best and the rest are just there.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Dash Slash should be the only difference to run for Bowser. Maybe Fire Roar but other then that keep the rest the same.

Aerial Klaw/Slash landings are the best because you can transition into a regular grab or another move immediately.

So 3311 or 1311 for me.

 

[Ultima 3]

Slob Bomb works in conjunction with Dash Klaw. If:
A) you get the trip
B) your close enough

But losing the up hit isn't grand, and that's situational.
People actually like Fire Roar?

Anyway, really most sets will probably be default with changes to the Side B as they all have their use.
I admittedly like Fire Shot. It gives Bowser a projectile and it doesn't wear out over time.

Ive been trying to run with
2213
But I might just change it to
1211, 1311 or 2211

 

[MrEh]

1311 master race.

 

[MagiusNecros]

1311 master race.

Gonna have to agree. You get the most potential out of Bowser with this set.

 

[Uncle]

Here is my tentative Top 8.

1311
3311
1211
3211
1313
3313
1213
3213

More testing needs to be done with Slip Bomb, I feel.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well with Slip Bomb it does the most damage coming down and it also comes down super fast. Which is pretty amazing.

 

[Uncle]

Right now, I think the regular Bomb is too rewarding to pass up (like I said earlier in the thread), but I have a feeling that some sickening setup will eventually be discovered with Slip Bomb. It's not probable, but it's possible.

Either way, the project was asking for the Top 8, so I had to fill out my slots with something.

 

[MrEh]

The problem with Slip Bomb is just that the reward for landing it isn't even that good in the best case scenario. It's harder to land than Bowser Bomb, is significantly weaker, and the only benefit you get from it is atrip that you can't follow up with. Nothing is guaranteed, and even the pressure you get afterwards is disproportionately bad compared to the effort required to land it.

 

[Uncle]

I've been playing around more with Slip Bomb online and offline. It seems that I put too much faith in the tripping quake. MrEh is right when he says that following up the trip is impractical. There's just too much endlag on the move for Bowser to have a Ganon-esque tech chase game with it. Bowser Bomb is still da bess in my book.

Slip Bomb is hilarious to use in 5+ player matches in the single player modes, though. CPUs often leave themselves open for a juicy dropkick after the trip.

 

[Zigsta]

Does anyone live in a region where customs are legal? I haven't even practiced with customs since SoCal bans customs.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I think as far as Customs go we'll have to wait for the Tourney Mode. I hear it is supposed to have a option to allow Customs to be used.

 

[MrEh]

Hawaii has customs legal atm. However, recent backlash from the community may or may not force our local TO to ban customs in the future.

It's sort of hit this nasty slippery slope effect. Where once the major regions began banning customs, every other region follows suit just for the sake of conformity. It's not even because customs are broken and are bad for the game; it's just that people want their regions to be taken seriously.

It's a real shame, since there's nothing wrong with customs and they do make the game a much more varied and balanced experience. Any argument that customs make the game more unfair isn't supported with actual evidence. On the contrary, the few tournament results we do have show a much more varied top 16. Conclusive? Of course not, but it's certainly leaning more towards proving the validity of customs than not.

 

[Zigsta]

Agreed about the slippery slope effect. Since SoCal and other regions I'd potentially travel to all ban customs, I have zero incentive to ever practice customs. And because of that I feel I'll never have an opinion on whether or not customs should be legal.

 

[Uncle]

I believe that the community will embrace customs in due time. Eventually, pretty much everyone will have all of the moves unlocked, so the logistical argument against them will crumble. The balance argument against them is already built on a crumbling foundation.

 

[MrEh]

Sadly, it won't really matter if the logistics and balance reasonings fall apart if every region snap bans customs before then. Once we hit that point, no one will want to go back. It's vicious.

 

[B!squick]

I hope Hawaii keeps it. Still the best Smash scene by far. Already tired of Diddy.

 

[Uncle]

Call me optimistic, but I think that the Custom Moves project will really turn some heads once it picks up steam. If enough people get the message that customs are good for the game and not too hard to set up for tourneys, then I doubt that the snap bans across every region will actually happen.

Nevertheless, I agree that community comfort and inertia will take over if change doesn't happen soon. It's a race against the clock, when it's all said and done.