Data Bowser's Top 8 Custom Movesets

[B!squick]

Yeah, MK managed to get banned for a bit despite nation wide laziness, so there's hope for custom moves.

 

[Funkermonster]

Has anybody tried Turbulent Bomb for edgeguarding? Somebody said it always kills for him and it works on a lot of characters, but it sounds too good to be true.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Has anybody tried Turbulent Bomb for edgeguarding? Somebody said it always kills for him and it works on a lot of characters, but it sounds too good to be true.

Well, it has one of the biggest windboxes.

 

[Funkermonster]

But would it actually be practical is what I'm asking.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If the opponent has messed up his recovery and went past the ledge, it's basically a free kill if you time it at the right moment

 

[MrEh]

It's also slow and inconsistent.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Like all of Bowser's DownBs

 

[MagiusNecros]

Like all of Bowser's DownBs

Nah the standard Bowser Bomb is always consistent for me. Bowserciding however...

 

[MrEh]

Like all of Bowser's DownBs

Default Bomb is actually good.

 

[B!squick]

Default Bomb is my anti-drug.

 

[Ultima 3]

Neutral B
Fire Breath: Breathes fire medium distance. Range of fire decreases. Goes from maximum to minimum distance in 8 seconds. At minimum distance takes 11 seconds to recharge to max. Tip of the fire has no hit stun. Breath can be angled. Cancels out small projectiles. Fire does 1% every time it hits.
Fire Shot: Shoots straight. Hold down B for continuous fire. Travels past shield. Shots can be angled. Up close 5%. Further distance 4%.
Fire Roar: Breathes fire long distance. Range of fire decreases rapidly. Goes from maximum to minimum range in 3 seconds. At minimum distance takes 20 seconds to recharge to max. Tip of the fire has no hit stun. Breath can be angled. Cancels out small projectiles. Fire does 1-2% every time it hits. At minimum distance does 1-4% every time it hits.

Side B
Flying Slam: Command Grab. Flies in the air once it connects. Can control the direction of drop. Opponents can control the direction of drop. Harder for opponents to control at higher %. Does 18%. KO move at 120%.
Dash Slam: Command Grab. Travels forward. Opponents within travel distance are grabbed. Flies low in the air once grabbed. Opponents can control the direction of drop. Harder for opponents to control at higher %. Does 12%. KO move. Near the edge at 160%, in the centre at 190%.
Dash Slash: Dashes forward. Opponents within travel distance are hit. Travels past shield. Does 8%. Tip of the dash does 6%. Cancels out small projectiles. KO move. Near the edge at 190%, in the centre at 260%. Tip Sudden Death KO near the edge.

Up B
Whirling Fortress: Hits a maximum of 8 times. Grounded, 1st-7th hit does 1%. Final hit does 4%. Maximum 8%. In the air, 1st hit does 10%, 2nd-6th hit does 3%, 7th-8th hit does 2%. Maximum 29%. Grounded final hit has knockback. Aerial 1st hit has knockback. Grounded, can only move horizontally. Can move while hitting opponents. Rises upwards when used in the air. Cancels out small projectiles. KO move at 170%.
Flying Fortress: Flies high into the air. 1st hit does 4%. Everything past that does 2%. Every hit has small knockback. Lessened horizontal distance. Cancels out small projectiles.
Sliding Fortress: Does 6%. Grounded, can only move horizontally. Grounded has high knockback. Covers majority of floor space on the ground. Covers lots of horizontal distance in the air. Doesn't fly very high in the air. Cancels out small projectiles. KO move. On the ground at 180%, in the air at 200%.

Down B
Bowser Bomb: Grounded, hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st does 4%. Final hit does 20%. Maximum 24%. In the air does 20%. Grounded rises in the air then drops. In the air stalls then drops. Does large shield damage. KO move. Cancels out small projectiles. On the ground at 90%, in the air at 100%.
Turbulence Bomb: Grounded, hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st hit does 4%. Final hit does 9%. Maximum 13%. In the air does 9%. Grounded rises in the air then drops. Moves far forward when used on the ground. In the air stalls then drops. Upon landing has a large wind box. Wind box has pushback effect. Cancels out small projectiles. Does large shield damage. KO move. Near the edge at 220%, in the centre at 250%. When used in the air on a grounded opponent, wind box reduces knockback, increasing KO threshold tremendously.
Slip Bomb: Grounded rises extremely high in the air then drops. Hardly moves forward at all. In the air stalls then drops. Does 18% upon direct impact. Does 13% from high shockwave. High shockwave has a very small radius. High knockback. Does 2% from low shockwave. Low shockwave has a large radius. Trips grounded enemies. KO move. Direct impact on the ground at 120%, in the air at 110%. High shockwave at 160%.

Hm, HM.

I'm genuinely surprised by the people going for Fire Roar. I didn't think it all too grand.

Fire Shot, Bowser finally gets a projectile, too bad it's kind of a slow.

Anyway

1211
1311
2211
2311

Are what I try and use.

Slob Bomb's trips can work well in conjunction with Dash Slam, better with Dash Slash, but it gets no rising hit which is a shame hit. Turbulence Bomb has the biggest windbox, Ike's Tempest being 2nd, but it's pretty hard to get the timing and inconsistent

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

Standard Special Move: Fire Breath or Fire Roar. Fire Breath depletes an recharges quicker and if you know what you're doing you can rack up a lot of damage with it. Fire Roar is good if used sparingly and it does more base damage than Fire Breath.
Side Special Move: Dash Slash. Comes out very fast and has high launching power while covering some horizontal distance (it can, like Sash Slam, work as a horizontal recovery option to a degree, but not as much).
Up Special Move: Whirling Fortress. Increased height when button mashed and does not sacrifice horizontal or vertical movement while working as a moving down smash attack.
Down Special Move: Any of them really. Either you have shield breaking damage and the highest damage output, a windbox that can help defend you from attackers or screw someone over, or you can interrupt any ground movement of your opponent who may be trying to counter your move.

 

[MrEh]

Fire shot doesn't do anything though. Fire Roar does something for 1 second at least.

 

[Dexmaster]

Fire shot doesn't do anything though. Fire Roar does something for 1 second at least.

I feel like Fire Shot might be good for edgeguarding or something, right? It seems like it would help him against opponents in the air.

 

[Cassius.]

if you're trying to edgeguard someone in the air, you're better off using a fast(er than a fireball), strong aerial (bowser has all of these) as opposed to a slow, laggy fireball.

Standard Firebreath is actually pretty decent at forcing characters who recover vertically to make uncomfortable recoveries anyway

 

[King Bowser Koopa]

Figured I'd weigh in here. In no particular order these are the sets I tend to get the most use out of.

1111
1211
2111
2211

 

[MrEh]

I feel like Fire Shot might be good for edgeguarding or something, right? It seems like it would help him against opponents in the air.

Try hitting an offstage opponent with Fire Shot. It's hard as balls.

And if you do land it, you deal 2% and they make it back to the ledge anyway.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Bowser:

1/3, 2/3, 1, 1, niche XXX2 and XXX3

1211, 1311, 3211, 3311
niche: 1212, 1213, 1312, 1313, 3312, 3313

Things seem pretty simple for the Bowser board in that it seems like most of the stronger Bowser players are focused on side customs and Fire Roar. The most popular requests by far that are not those two things are the down special variants, and for that reason they were given the more niche sets. Feel free to let me know if you'd prefer a different approach.

 

[MrEh]

2311 or 2211 should totally be a custom set just because Dedede exists. I've seen some crazy people that think fireball is good regardless, so it fulfills that niche too I guess.

 

[Hitman JT]

What MrEh said. Get rid of the Turbulent Bomb sets...that move is garbage.

 

[MrEh]

The wind bomb sets are there for pot monsters.

 

[Karsticles]

I would really like to see 2111 as a set. Sometimes you want default moves, but really need the fireball. No need for any Turbulent Bomb sets. I recommend the following loadout:

2111
2311
1311
2211
1211

Anyone opposed to this list? I think it covers every option for the 3 customs that are worth using for him, even if only situationally.

 

[MrEh]

There's no matchup that 2111 is preferable over 2311 or 2211.

Default Klaw is ridiculously bad.

 

[Karsticles]

There's no matchup that 2111 is preferable over 2311 or 2211.

Default Klaw is ridiculously bad.

I disagree. I get a lot of Klaw kills, and it kills in many situations another move cannot. It is also fantastic on stages with ledges, since you can hop and grab from below.

 

[Dre89]

I'm honestly surprised people are trying to argue using customs for upb and downb. Particularly upb, nothing is anywhere near comparable to default upb.

Fire shot is bad in practice. I think people just got a hard on about Bowser having a projectile. I thought it'd be good until I realised how laggy it is. It can't even force approaches because of how easy it is to powershield.

The only things that I think are debatable are fire roar vs fire breath and sideb2 vs sideb3. I personally like roar because of how good it looks against projectiles. Breath was never that important anyway, and doesn't let you do anything clutch. Roar could actually be a good tool for getting in on campers. I like dash slam because having a command grab that works in the air just makes Bowser's kit more dynamic than another hitbox that loses to shield.

 

[Uncle]

Fire Shot's risk/reward ratio is even more pitiful than Turbulent Bomb's. You're entering a significant amount of startup and cooldown frames for a sluggish 4-5% damage projectile with nearly no knockback. Bowser really doesn't want to miss out on the solid damage-racking and edgeguarding abilities of the other fire breath moves. Also, we can't forget about the ability to stop certain projectiles in their tracks with a streaming wall of flames.

Even with all of that being said, I'd like to hear your reasoning for taking Fire Shot against Dedede, @ MrEh . I'm more than open to supporting Fire Shot with a niche set or two if it actually shines against a few characters. It's doubtful to me, but it's not impossible.

 

[MrEh]

It is also fantastic on stages with ledges, since you can hop and grab from below.

Every stage has ledges.

 

[Karsticles]

Every stage has ledges.

I mean platforms, but I am sure you knew that already.

 

[Uncle]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Bowser:

1/3, 2/3, 1, 1, niche XXX2 and XXX3

1211, 1311, 3211, 3311
niche: 1212, 1213, 1312, 1313, 3312, 3313

Things seem pretty simple for the Bowser board in that it seems like most of the stronger Bowser players are focused on side customs and Fire Roar. The most popular requests by far that are not those two things are the down special variants, and for that reason they were given the more niche sets. Feel free to let me know if you'd prefer a different approach.

Here's my proposed list....

1211
1311
2211
2311
3211
3311
1212
1213
1312
1313

Reasons

-Fire Breath is a staple of Bowser's gameplay. It harasses, it defends, it baits, it edgeguards, and it even makes Julienne Fries, or so I've heard. This combination of stability and utility make Fire Breath the go-to neutral special. Fire Roar's range and damage advantages are nice but not significant, especially given how fast it fizzles out. Fire Shot has range and no fizzling going for it, but other than that it's all-around weaksauce. I think two niche sets for each Fire Breath alternative is fair enough.

-Always go with Dash Slam or Dash Slash. Those two moves open up more avenues of gameplay for Bowser than any other custom move in his arsenal, by far. You guys already know how great they are. Our trusty old Klaw (Flying Slam) just isn't what it used to be.

-Whirling Fortress is the Undisputed WWE World Heavyweight Champion of Up Specials, because the other Fortresses give up too much for too little. Bowser NEEDS his trusty OOS cheese grater. With the mashing recovery mechanic and situational dash slam/slash recovery aids, Bowser is no slouch at making it back to the stage in this game.

-Both Turbulent Bomb and Slip Bomb are quite lackluster compared to Bowser Bomb, but they're certainly better than the Fortress alternatives. Giving two niche sets to each move is acceptable to me.

Conclusion

It's pretty much the same as your list, Ampharos. The only differences are that I threw out the Fire Roar + Bomb Variant sets in exchange for two Fire Shot sets. I'm not impressed by Fire Shot myself, but most of these sets aren't impressive to begin with. We have to fill the 10 slots with something, and I'd rather give Fire Shot the time of day than give Fire Roar a whopping four sets. If my fellow Bowsers are firmly against Fire Shot, then bring back the Fire Roar sets.

 

[Karsticles]

Here's my proposed list....

1211
1311
2211
2311
3211
3311
1212
1213
1312
1313

Reasons

-Fire Breath is a staple of Bowser's gameplay. It harasses, it defends, it baits, it edgeguards, and it even makes Julienne Fries, or so I've heard. This combination of stability and utility make Fire Breath the go-to neutral special. Fire Roar's range and damage advantages are nice but not significant, especially given how fast it fizzles out. Fire Shot has range and no fizzling going for it, but other than that it's all-around weaksauce. I think two niche sets for each Fire Breath alternative is fair enough.

-Always go with Dash Slam or Dash Slash. Those two moves open up more avenues of gameplay for Bowser than any other custom move in his arsenal, by far. You guys already know how great they are. Our trusty old Klaw (Flying Slam) just isn't what it used to be.

-Whirling Fortress is the Undisputed WWE World Heavyweight Champion of Up Specials, because the other Fortresses give up too much for too little. Bowser NEEDS his trusty OOS cheese grater. With the mashing recovery mechanic and situational dash slam/slash recovery aids, Bowser is no slouch at making it back to the stage in this game.

-Both Turbulent Bomb and Slip Bomb are quite lackluster compared to Bowser Bomb, but they're certainly better than the Fortress alternatives. Giving two niche sets to each move is acceptable to me.

Conclusion

It's pretty much the same as your list, Ampharos. The only differences are that I threw out the Fire Roar + Bomb Variant sets in exchange for two Fire Shot sets. I'm not impressed by Fire Shot myself, but most of these sets aren't impressive to begin with. We have to fill the 10 slots with something, and I'd rather give Fire Shot the time of day than give Fire Roar a whopping four sets. If my fellow Bowsers are firmly against Fire Shot, then bring back the Fire Roar sets.

I am good with this, though I dont think anyone uses the slip variation for down B.

 

[MrEh]

No one really uses fireball either to be fair.

Dash Slam and Slash are the only customs moves that have been proven to actually improve Bowser's game. Everything else is just theorycraft at this point, so I'm inclined to say that every custom being represented is fine. If only to appeal to the random pot monsters that will inevitably enter.

 

[PeptoandWhiskey]

I'd like to advocate for 2311 or 2211. Fire Shot, while not the greatest projectile, still has its merits. The way I see it, you'll only be using this as a spacing tool against characters lacking a projectile of their own. Sure, it's situational, but isn't that the point of having multiple sets of custom moves?

 

[Zigsta]

I'd like to advocate for 2311 or 2211. Fire Shot, while not the greatest projectile, still has its merits. The way I see it, you'll only be using this as a spacing tool against characters lacking a projectile of their own. Sure, it's situational, but isn't that the point of having multiple sets of custom moves?

The majority of Bowser mains on here agree that Fire Shot's end lag and low damage aren't beneficial to Bowser's general rushdown strategy, even if you're against a character without a projectile (Ganon and Ike, for instance). Firebreath actually racks up a lot more damage against these characters and shuts down many of their options.

I point out Ike and Ganon because against both of these characters, you want them to be in the air diagonally up from Bowser. It's an optimal position where they really can't do much to Bowser, but you can fair/bair or upsmash/uptilt them, or even go for a dash attack to pop them back up again. Firebreath usage establishes a willingness to throw out a rather long hitbox along the ground, which forces most players to try a more aerial approach--which is right where you want them.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'm fine with including Fire Shot sets instead of Fire Roar + Bomb variant sets. I don't think any of the more established Bowser players are likely to pick either, and if there's popular enthusiasm for Fire Shot sets in those slots that are otherwise not in demand, why not?

 

[Zigsta]

I'm fine with including Fire Shot sets instead of Fire Roar + Bomb variant sets. I don't think any of the more established Bowser players are likely to pick either, and if there's popular enthusiasm for Fire Shot sets in those slots that are otherwise not in demand, why not?

Personally I believe all the established/veteran Bowser players favor Firebreath over the customs, but if they were to occasionally dip into a custom FB, it would be Fire Roar since its purpose in similar to Firebreath.

I understand there are some users on this board who say Fire Shot's a great move, but I have to completely disagree--and this is coming from someone who said before Smash 4 came out that he'd love a fireball added to Bowser's moveset!

Ultimately I don't want to submit a custom moveset as a representation of the Bowser boards that will stifle new Bowser players looking to improve their Bowser play by diving into the world of customs. I want Bowser to have strong representation. We need to recommend custom movesets that will provide immediate insight for any and all past, present, and future Bowser mains who want to succeed in tournaments, regardless of the level.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Personally I believe all the established/veteran Bowser players favor Firebreath over the customs, but if they were to occasionally dip into a custom FB, it would be Fire Roar since its purpose in similar to Firebreath.

I understand there are some users on this board who say Fire Shot's a great move, but I have to completely disagree--and this is coming from someone who said before Smash 4 came out that he'd love a fireball added to Bowser's moveset!

Ultimately I don't want to submit a custom moveset as a representation of the Bowser boards that will stifle new Bowser players looking to improve their Bowser play by diving into the world of customs. I want Bowser to have strong representation. We need to recommend custom movesets that will provide immediate insight for any and all past, present, and future Bowser mains who want to succeed in tournaments, regardless of the level.

I don't disagree, but I suppose I'd put it this way. In your opinion, which of the following pairs of sets are more important for Bowser to have?

2211, 2311

vs

3312, 3313

vs

"They're all things I'd never pick" (I'm suspecting this is what you'd say)

I'm pretty much sold that Fire Shot is, in actuality, a horrible move, and my intuition as a player is that 3312/3313 are better sets in the abstract. However, there have been frequent requests for Fire Shot sets and I've heard no one suggest that they're likely to actually pick 3312 or 3313. It seems likely that Bowser has fewer than 10 quality sets, but since we have 10 slots, it's only natural that we can and should use all of the space available regardless of whether it is truly needed (it wouldn't be fair to Bowser to have fewer options available even if not all of them are quality). We have to make a decision between sets that we really don't particularly endorse, and right now, the difference is that I'm hearing players say they would pick the Fire Shot sets (good decision or not) whereas no one is stepping up to say they'd pick the other sets. It's hard for me, from my position, to wag my finger at players making a bad set decision and say they shouldn't be allowed to make it at EVO when there are no pressing space concerns to prevent their sets from being included. I'm not going to exclude any quality Bowser set to include an objectively bad set, but if there aren't enough quality Bowser sets to fill the space, I don't see any fair road other than including whatever is popular even if it isn't good.

That being said, if there's something actually worthwhile to put in those slots and we agree that Fire Shot is objectively a terrible move, that would of course get top priority. It's just that, as of now, I'm not seeing that.

 

[Zigsta]

Is there a link that shows which number corresponds to which special move? I'm bad with all these numbers--just want the make sure I'm actually responding properly.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Is there a link that shows which number corresponds to which special move? I'm bad with all these numbers--just want the make sure I'm actually responding properly.

1st number - Fire Breath variants are Fire Shot (2) and Fire Roar (3)
2nd number - Flying Slam variants are Dash Slam (2) and Dash Slash (3)
3rd number - Fortress variants are Flying Fortress (2) and Sliding Fortress (3)
4th number - Bowser Bomb variants are Turbulent Bomb (2) and Slip Bomb (3)
And I use this page to keep track of all characters

 

[Dre89]

1211 and 1311 are really the only ones that matter. The rest are just bonuses.

 

[Uncle]

Let's just vote on 2211/2311 vs. 3312/3313 for the last two slots and call it a day. For most Bowsers (myself included), over half of the slots will be irrelevant.