Data Bowser's Top 8 Custom Movesets

[PeptoandWhiskey]

1. 1211
2. 1311
3. 3211
4. 3311
5. 1213
6. 1313
7. 3213
8. 3313
9. 2311 - Fire Shot set with what seem to be the most requested variants of the other three moves.
10. 1312 - Slip Bomb set with what seem to be the most requested variants of the other three moves.

It's a compromise. Maybe there's a better way to do it.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1312 - Slip Bomb set with what seem to be the most requested variants of the other three moves.
It's a compromise. Maybe there's a better way to do it.

I should point out slip bomb is the third Down B, and 1313 is already a set. Did you mean Turbulent Bomb? That's #2. I don't think anybody has made a solid case for Turbulent Bomb as a viable move.

 

[PeptoandWhiskey]

I should point out slip bomb is the third Down B, and 1313 is already a set. Did you mean Turbulent Bomb? That's #2. I don't think anybody has made a solid case for Turbulent Bomb as a viable move.

My apologies, I don't use the custom down specials much so I accidentally switched them around. Either way, I 'm proposing four sets with down special 1, four sets with the favorite down special of 2 and 3, at least one fire shot set, and a down special set for the remaining one.

OR we could go all in and make a niche-as-hell set of 2312
If Bowser is using Fire Shot that means he's up against characters without a projectile, most of which have bad or predictable recoveries(Ike, Ganondorf, Donkey Kong, Captain Falcon, etc). If Turbulent Bomb is going to be used at all, it'll be against those characters.

 

[Cassius.]

all of those characters you listed have more trouble recovering when bowser has normal firebreath/normal bomb. fireball is just not good at all lmao. zigsta and I have been saying for years that bowser would be amazing with a fireball special move but we were apparently reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaally wrong

anyway, for the chars you listed, their recovery moves are that bad.

does turbulent bomb even deal damage? I have no idea what that **** does aside from spew wind hitboxes across the screen.

i guess for the sake of having 8 special movesets we can just throw them in there for pot monster filler like chad said but ugh

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

does turbulent bomb even deal damage? I have no idea what that **** does aside from spew wind hitboxes across the screen.

Turbulent bomb shares Bowser Bomb's rising hit, this time dealing 4% damage. The falling hit deals 9% with extremely low, mostly base knockback. Only upon landing is the windbox produced on both sides of bowser, lasting for several frames to cover his landing. But the move cannot break shields and the windboxes are circumvented by the opponent keeping shields up.

It's funny, Bowser's bomb's rising hit is essential to the move because of its role of punishing laggy options and being a threat to opponents on the ledge who are usually at kill percent. Turbulent bomb has the rising hit, unlike slip bomb which could really use it, and it's totally useless besides just carrying the opponent with you. Turbulent bomb sends the opponent far enough offstage to force an edgeguard scenario at really any percent. That appears to be it's one application. Setting up for a gimp, not to kill.

 

[MrEh]

Turbulent Bomb's rising hit also comes out 50% slower than regular bomb, making it ridiculously harder to punish with it for significantly less reward.

Both custom bombs are so ridiculously bad I can't even see the rationale for programming them they way they are. Slip Bomb trips, but you lag so hard you cannot capitalize on it. Turbulent Bomb creates a tiny gust of wind. Really?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Turbulent Bomb's rising hit also comes out 50% slower than regular bomb, making it ridiculously harder to punish with it for significantly less reward.

Both custom bombs are so ridiculously bad I can't even see the rationale for programming them they way they are. Slip Bomb trips, but you lag so hard you cannot capitalize on it. Turbulent Bomb creates a tiny gust of wind. Really?

Not to be a MathemaTool, but 4 frames is not 50% of 11. Bowser Bomb takes 11 frames for its rising hit, Turbulent takes 15. When used from the air, they both take 32 frames for Bowser to start falling.

I believe there is some potential for Slip Bomb. And to see it, you'd have to imagine using Bowser Bomb for a different, less intuitive use. You know how you always roll your eyes when a Bowser player gets sent high and uses Bowser Bomb to come down to the stage? What a bad move. Bowser Bomb takes 32 frames of visible windup before he starts coming down. With only a hitbox under Bowser, punishing this is child's play. But Slip Bomb takes only 23 to become a missile from the air. That 9 frames difference is wicked intimidating to be on the other end of. Opponents will scramble to air dodge, possibly land during that, or land and sit in their shield, which can be broken. And the move has a trip box that extends two Bowser lengths from his landing. Bowser Bomb's landing doesn't have any sort of safety. Whiff and you will eat a punish, and Bowser takes more punishment than most. Slip bomb's tripbox creates a third outcome - a reset. I propose that Slip Bomb is to be used on another opponent who is airborne and under you. Watch it beat every late uair they throw at you. Viable? Absolutely. Worth actually taking? Well...

Here's the biggest problem with Slip Bomb and its air to air use. Bowser's Dair is a viable move in this game. It has precisely the same application with added control and its own landing hitbox for three frames in close proximity to Bowser. As for frame speed, it's no contest. Dair becomes active on Frame 17, six frames earlier than slip bomb. Bowser also withdraws into his shell, becoming a more concentrated missile. The only things Slip Bomb has over Dair is that it can still break shields, grab the ledge, and trip reset is a possibility. And you'd have to decide if that's worth giving up Bowser Bomb's uses near the ledge, and as a hard ground punish/read.

 

[Zigsta]

Let's just vote on 2211/2311 vs. 3312/3313 for the last two slots and call it a day. For most Bowsers (myself included), over half of the slots will be irrelevant.

Yeah, I'd say 2211/2311 even though no one in their right mind should ever use those. At least Fire Shot isn't nearly as crazy as using anything but default Bowser Bomb.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I can't list eight sets, but my favorite has to be 3211.

Fire Roar because I wait between uses anyway.
Dash Slam because increased range is useful.
Whirling Fortress provides a great attack to use on the ground, so no replacing.
Default Bowser Bomb serves me the best, though I'm personally intrigued by the Turbulent Bomb.

 

[Uncle]

Well, today's the deadline that Ampharos mentioned. Let's do a final review....

Must Haves

1211
1311
3211
3311

These four sets are Bowser's bread and butter in customs gameplay. Combining Dash Slam or Slash with the already good default specials in the other move slots is widely considered to be the best way to get the most out of Bowser. Fire Roar is here because it is often considered a legitimate alternative to Fire Breath.

Niche Sets

3312
3313
2211
2311
2312
1212
1213
1312
1313

As we already know, each character must have his/her ten custom moveset slots filled up at EVO. This means that we have 6 more moveset slots to fill. Bowser's most critically acclaimed movesets are already represented, so we may as well use the remaining slots to accommodate popular niche movesets within reason. I say "within reason" because no Bowser player in his/her right mind would actually approve Flying Fortress sets upon analyzing the move as objectively as humanly possible, just to give an example.

Fire Shot, Turbulent Bomb, and Slip Bomb are the three most requested custom moves that aren't represented by the "must have" sets. These three moves have received a mixed reception from Bowser's playerbase, with the majority of his dedicated players being firmly unimpressed. Basically, we are in a "choose the best of the worst" situation. Let's settle it now.

 

[Zigsta]

Agreed with the above.

 

[MrEh]

Looks fine.

Has the 2 most important sets and variations of said sets. Rest of the sets appeal to pot monsters fine.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Agreed here. The fortress customs blatantly fail all quotas that are supposed to make them stand out over standard fortress. Fire shot and custom bombs will have to do for niche.

One thing I've been wondering though. Aren't there supposed to be 2222 and 3333 sets for people to take home and lab with, or did they ditch that idea? I still use them regularly for my own research purposes on each character.

 

[Uncle]

I believe they were used for various local tournaments, but for the purposes of EVO they ditched them to make room for as many player-desired sets as possible.

Also, I listed 9 niche sets earlier. We just need to cut 3 of them. Here's my earlier proposal....

2211
2311
1212
1213
1312
1313

Cut: 2312, 3312, 3313

What do you guys think?

 

[Hitman JT]

I believe they were used for various local tournaments, but for the purposes of EVO they ditched them to make room for as many player-desired sets as possible.

Also, I listed 9 niche sets earlier. We just need to cut 3 of them. Here's my earlier proposal....

2211
2311
1212
1213
1312
1313

Cut: 2312, 3312, 3313

What do you guys think?

Looks good to me

 

[Zigsta]

I believe they were used for various local tournaments, but for the purposes of EVO they ditched them to make room for as many player-desired sets as possible.

Also, I listed 9 niche sets earlier. We just need to cut 3 of them. Here's my earlier proposal....

2211
2311
1212
1213
1312
1313

Cut: 2312, 3312, 3313

What do you guys think?

Those cuts sound fine.

 

[Karsticles]

I believe they were used for various local tournaments, but for the purposes of EVO they ditched them to make room for as many player-desired sets as possible.

Also, I listed 9 niche sets earlier. We just need to cut 3 of them. Here's my earlier proposal....

2211
2311
1212
1213
1312
1313

Cut: 2312, 3312, 3313

What do you guys think?

Um, dont we want 1211 and 1311?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Um, dont we want 1211 and 1311?

He was posting a list of niche sets. Those six are in addition to the Must Have 4 which are:
1211
1311
3211
3311

 

[Karsticles]

He was posting a list of niche sets. Those six are in addition to the Must Have 4 which are:
1211
1311
3211
3311

Ah, my B.

 

[Big-Cat]

I must be the only person that likes Klaw/Potemkin Buster.

 

[Karsticles]

After monthly of customs play, how do y'all feel about customs? While I was initially positive about them, I've been down on them quite a bit recently. While characters like Bowser and Ganondorf get amazing boosts from customs, other, better characters get them too. Moreover, many "brainless" moves like DK's custom up B become defining points of the character, diluting general gameplay.

I must be the only person that likes Klaw/Potemkin Buster.

It's okay, but Bowser's normal grab and Bowser Bomb do both of its jobs better, and Dash Slash is GDLK.

 

[MrEh]

DK's upB has counterplay and can be punished.

It dumpsters scrubs and it's a good move, but it has weaknesses. The character is also garbage without it, and still not top tier with it. I'm ok with it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Customs are a love hate thing for me. Some characters get a bunch that are great. Some characters only get one custom move that is any good like our Koopa King here.

Some characters like Meta Knight hate all of them.

And DLC characters aren't given any to boot.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's okay, but Bowser's normal grab and Bowser Bomb do both of its jobs better, and Dash Slash is GDLK.

To me, Klaw is too good of a killing move to pass up.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It's hard to post a full analysis on the benefits and drawbacks of Dash Slash over Flying Slam. Now that Flying Slam affords you enough control to make those kills consistently, and have a better chance of intentional Bowsercide, Dash Slam is a pretty useless move because of it. Dash Slam's entire niche used to be, "I just want to keep grabbing and air grabbing fools into the blast zones once I catch a stock lead". Still has an amazing ability to grab people - better than Monkey Flip and Flame Choke when you factor in lagless landings. Not even spot dodges keep victims safe. But the threat of being taken over the edge unintentionally by the opponent is still very real, and victims can make recovery attempts on every stage, not just a few that we'd be keeping track of.

As for the argument between Flying Slam and Dash Slash, I'm certain there are matchups where Dash Slash's ability to dictate the pace and speed of the fight is useful. It's like Bouncing Fish, in that it can be very safe on shield with the right usage. Many characters in this game have trouble walling off opponents that can engage safely from the air. It also allows for higher recoveries which is a nice defense against spikes from Falcon. I also enjoy letting go of a ledge and Dash Slashing on stage as a fifth ledge option. Add in combo potential when you do hit somebody, or pivot grab followups when you hit a shield, and I'd say that's worth losing a speedy command grab kill move. You just gain so much for your neutral.

Flying Slam is probably our best Jab 1 followup though, so there's that too.

 

[Jerodak]

I feel like 2333 may have some potential, at least in certain match ups.
Also wouldn't mind
2313
2311
Maybe add them as niche sets over stuff no one uses.

 

[MeteorSpike]

I personally really like Slip Bomb and Sliding Fortress.
Slip Bomb's "bombing" part is still appreciably strong, and not too weak compared to the default, unlike the wind bomb. For the air version, it seems that Bowser gets to the bombing, descending part noticeably faster than the default, as well. For the ground version, I like to use it to force trumps/edgeguards. Slip Bomb's shortened travel distance means that, for the most part, Bowser can walk up to the edge (even to his "teeter/totter" animation), do Slip Bomb, and still grab the edge. Though it seems to be actually stage, dependent, it works more for me on FD than Arena Ferox (both standard and omega), for example. If timed right, it's like I can force my recovering opponent into a lose-lose scenario: Either they get bomb'd as they recover, or they grab the edge, only for me to trump them just a mere split second later. In the event of the latter, Bowser can follow-up on the trump with a BAir or some other mixup. In either case, he still gets the potential for hefty damage.
Again, just my personal opinion.
Sliding Fortress is a decent escape option, and actually has a rather hard-to-challenge hitbox, it seems to be larger than the default. Compared to the default, it can go almost as high with decent mashing. Unlike the default, it can be made semi/somewhat safe on block, due to the speed and horizontal travel distance. It rewards with less damage, but is actually a nice way to get opponents in the air, in which Bowser can punish well.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Whirling starts faster OoS then Sliding does. And eventually kills. Sliding does not.

Though I may experiment to see if we can use it to get in but most cases you don't want to give up regular fortress because of it's multi hit nature which catches mistakes and most importantly rolls.

 

[MeteorSpike]

Any fans of Slip Bomb out there?

 

[MagiusNecros]

I like it. You get less shield breaks though.

 

[Jerodak]

Sliding fortress can K.O, it's launching hit actually has higher knockback, so technically it should K.O sooner.

Default puts damage on first, then launches, so it raises the percent which gives more knockback to the last hit. (This is one reason I loved D-smash in Brawl.) However, if you have default fortress launch after getting the opponent to 50% for instance. Sliding fortress's knockback at that same percent should be higher.

The larger hitbox and much improved mobility are great too, though it is noticeably worse at vertical recovery, even with proper mashing. Being the same speed as Dsmash doesn't help it too much either. However, it does have some uses, it's a great landing trap tool, and an even safer option cover than default for edge guarding since you can simply run away if there's no one home.

Slip bomb is arguably a better shield breaker than the original. The difference in damage is trivial, especially since slip bomb is much faster and has the potential to cover the option of rolling away. Slip bomb is much worse at punishing though, no rising hit really hurts it there. However, if you like getting set-ups into some funky tech-chase mix-up situations then go for it, the trip box is huge and can be used to punish a few things.



I still largely prefer default Bowser, but he does have some fun stuff with customs on.

 

[Jamble]

I've had rotten luck and haven't been able to get fire shot yet, but currently I'm running with 1311. Dash claw adds way too many options, a quick roll punish, and it can be land canceled into another dash claw, either propelling you really far forward, or forward and a short distance back if you reverse the second claw. Really cool move that I think (unintentionally) added a lot of extra fun and options to Bowser's overall play. Won't catch me dead without it.

I played around with Slip Bomb, but aside from being less punishable from the air (very marginally), I was really underwhelmed. Also doesn't work as well with dash claw shenanigans as the original. I'm thinking once I finally get Fire shot, I'm going to roll with that too, but we'll see. I feel like there are very few circumstances where you really get much out of the trip caused by such a laggy move. Just kinda makes it feel like a more-forgiving-of-mistakes, but less potent version.