SmashRacer
Smash Journeyman
I didn't really expect this to be viable at any point, just thought I would share it.
It could be a fun thing to do against counter spammers on FG
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Social Bowser's Castle
- Thread starter Zigsta
- Start date
It could be a fun thing to do against counter spammers on FG
Dε√ilj∦o
Smash Journeyman
Its funny to watch at tho.
Dε√ilj∦o
Smash Journeyman
Can somebody explain why do I keep missing close range Forward Tilts against one of the tallest characters in the game, Wii-Fit Trainer and that move's hitbox hasnt been changed yet. This is buuuull.
BarSoapSoup
Smash Journeyman
Wii Fit has a tendency to 'phase' in and out of us. Unless you had photo evidence I would say it's more them breaking the Law of Conservation of Matter rather than our fists not being good little fists.
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,176
That moment when your buddy doesn't know how to use Bayo and her Bullets just bounce off of you and you feel unstoppable. The way all small projectiles should be handled. Hoo hah!
: WEAK SAUCE!
: WEAK SAUCE!
S_B
Too Drunk to Smash
Too damn fit (aka skinny).
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
Call of Duty Soldier? I don't know how we can beat that. Not without the power of Dew and Doritos.
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,176
I think I don't care about your post. Thanks for asking.
S_B
Too Drunk to Smash
No, but if you want to give Bowser a gun, I'd be down for that. Bayo's toting guns in this game so why not, eh?
herpyderpherper
Smash Apprentice
So after like 5 months of not playing, im back, and i suck, would anyone be up for some matches tomorrow?
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,176
Cronoc
Smash Journeyman
Get in the Discord server, I doubt you'll ever be able to set up matches from this thread.
Ghidorah14
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
- Messages
- 758
Hello.
I've posted in the bowser section before, but sort of dropped off before long, especially when I broke my 3DS and was unable to play online for a few months.
Lately, I've been switching characters around after having a revelation about what my actual smash4 playstyle is; patience/bait & punish. I know, like a year later and I'm just now figuring this out. I feel this was a great personal hurdle I needed to overcome in order to continue improving.
I've always played bowser, and for the most part, the patches have been pretty kind to him (R.I.P. KOO-PAH). Before, it was more of a "he's fun to play and I like the character" kind of thing. But now, I feel it's the perfect time to start playing him more seriously.
I love bowser's ability to just tank hits and dish out big punishes. I dont even fear sheik or zss anymore. Thats how confident I am in both bowser, and my own skill at the game (rosalina can go to hell, though). Playing patient with him is so rewarding.
Bayonetta is still gonna be my #1, but I'm looking to have bowser as a solid #2. Lately, he's been my go-to character when bayo cant cut it.
So yeah, long live the koopa king and all that.
I've posted in the bowser section before, but sort of dropped off before long, especially when I broke my 3DS and was unable to play online for a few months.
Lately, I've been switching characters around after having a revelation about what my actual smash4 playstyle is; patience/bait & punish. I know, like a year later and I'm just now figuring this out. I feel this was a great personal hurdle I needed to overcome in order to continue improving.
I've always played bowser, and for the most part, the patches have been pretty kind to him (R.I.P. KOO-PAH). Before, it was more of a "he's fun to play and I like the character" kind of thing. But now, I feel it's the perfect time to start playing him more seriously.
I love bowser's ability to just tank hits and dish out big punishes. I dont even fear sheik or zss anymore. Thats how confident I am in both bowser, and my own skill at the game (rosalina can go to hell, though). Playing patient with him is so rewarding.
Bayonetta is still gonna be my #1, but I'm looking to have bowser as a solid #2. Lately, he's been my go-to character when bayo cant cut it.
So yeah, long live the koopa king and all that.
I don't know where to post, so I'll do it here.
How do you guys cope with projectile reliant characters like Link and Robin.
I don't play this game very often, so I'm still very much a beginner. I play online and it's difficult for me to play these characters. I have not won or gotten close in any match I've played online with a semi competent player. Some player, I think he was named metalyoshi, started using robin when he lost with shulk and left telling me I sucked. I didn't even know we could message people through the namespace.
I've looked through this subforum, but I feel it's somewhat disorganized. Or I haven't familiarized myself with it just yet.
Anyway, any advice to take on these characters?
How do you guys cope with projectile reliant characters like Link and Robin.
I don't play this game very often, so I'm still very much a beginner. I play online and it's difficult for me to play these characters. I have not won or gotten close in any match I've played online with a semi competent player. Some player, I think he was named metalyoshi, started using robin when he lost with shulk and left telling me I sucked. I didn't even know we could message people through the namespace.
I've looked through this subforum, but I feel it's somewhat disorganized. Or I haven't familiarized myself with it just yet.
Anyway, any advice to take on these characters?
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,176
Powershield or die. Test of Endurance. Either you die or they get tired of their sissy strategy.
Unfortunately we kinda get screwed if latency is bad and then we have to calculate how many seconds we need to put our inputs in advance to bypass said latency to get accurate powershield readings.
As for Robin just block all his spells, count the spell stocks and when they run out go beat him up. Do not challenge his air attacks unless Levin Sword just expired.
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Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
There's no other answer to projectiles as us. Some characters can hop over, others have a reflector, but we're too large and slow moving to use jumps or dodge roll past without putting ourselves at risk. Just block the attacks and continue approaching until it's unsafe for them to use those moves. If your concern is only with For Glory, there's no need to go so far as being able to perfect shield every move. Everybody experiences the same latency as you do. Hold shield until you see and hear the move is blocked, then let go. You can pull up shield while walking or after reaching a full run, but not the initial dash or during a pivot. So only dash if you know you have enough time between projectiles to reach a run.
If we're talking about tournament settings, proper stage picks and perfect shielding will become more important. Because chances are their use of projectiles has some rhyme or reason. Like baiting you into doing something unsafe. They want you to act rashly out of frustration.
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B-Black
Smash Cadet
Hi guys.
In the french smash community, they think Bowser is as braindead as Luigi, Mario and Ness because of his gameplay: most notably with its Uthrow + Utilt, Usmash, Nair and Uair.
Do you consider him as a braindead character?
In the french smash community, they think Bowser is as braindead as Luigi, Mario and Ness because of his gameplay: most notably with its Uthrow + Utilt, Usmash, Nair and Uair.
Do you consider him as a braindead character?
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
They can think whatever they want. It doesn't change the fact that you can't place well competitively without solid fundamentals as Bowser. Calling something lame or braindead is just another john. It's not like there are any characters that lack the tools to fight and win against Bowser, they just need to learn the matchup.
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Jerodak
Smash Lord
To be honest, I disagree with the notion of merely blocking Robin's projectiles. For a lot of projectile characters it's not so bad of plan as long as you don't let yourself block compulsively or get baited into a predictable rhytym.
However, while Bowser's other options aren't as safe as shielding I don't think they should be underestimated. There will be times where you will want to short hop or possibly even full jump. There are also times where you want to just spotdodge or roll.
Let's look at the Robin example; the majority of the time, Robin will throw some multi-hitting projectile at you. If you simply shield, all you're going to do Is give Robin stage control and/or damage for free, especially off of arc fire. You can't do much of anything after blocking an arc fire/thunder other than either sit there and wait or attempt to roll back if you angled your shield so that the projectile won't just hit you out of your roll for free.
None of these are good options and basically lead to you waiting till arc fire runs out so you can start playing. Robin knows this too and will just pull a rosa by stalling hard when books run out. It's not a very fun or efficient way to play the match-up. So instead why not simply jump or roll?
These options are more risky in general than shielding but you get better rewards when using them correctly. One thing to note about Robin's projectiles is that they are all laggy on cooldown. Also, none of them can hit you during a full jump so you can actually do a neutral full jump when you feel an arc fire is coming and that should give you a free aerial if you follow up accordingly.
However, another important thing about utilizing the jump is that you force Robin to consider it before deciding on a course of action. If you're going to be on the ground 100% of the time you've already given up one possible layer to your mix-up. Which in turn makes it easier for your opponent to pick strategies which cover your options.
Rolling provides much of the same benefit, if you roll correctly against one of Robin's projectiles, that's typically going to be a free klaw, you might even be able to get a turn-around grab or down b as well. This also, if employed correctly, forces Robin to adapt to you and try to figure out when you will roll. Then suddenly Robin's train of thought might go from "Well, he's going to either shield or run away from my arc fire but either way it's safe!" To "Well he's mixing me up with these jumps and rolls, I'm going to need to get a read on those options so I can punish them."
Now don't misunderstand, I'm not saying to stop shielding and just spam jump and/or roll the entire match. You still need to play neutral and predict your opponent's options in order for these strategies to work, and Robin can still easily punish either option. However, simply making Robin consider those two options at all gives you an edge because now you have a mix-up.
You might even get a situation where Robin predicts you trying to roll and tries a roll punish instead of playing the usual spacing game with arc fire, which would lose to your roll.
Now one thing I should add is that you need to be wary of Thoron. That's definitely one projectile you'll generally want to block since that's the most reliable method of dealing with it. That being said, jumping over thoron is doable and lets you close the gap while Robin is stuck in the animation but is also more risky because you might get hit mid jump or simply jump too early and be forced to land against Thoron, which kinda sucks.
Of course, Thoron is slower than human reaction so if jumping over it consistently on reaction is possible then jumping gets a lot better, but is still riskier than shielding unless your shield energy is critically low.
Long story short, the "best options" may not always exactly be the best options. Mix-ups are powerful even in the simplest forms, apply them in as many ways as you can.
Hope this helps!
However, while Bowser's other options aren't as safe as shielding I don't think they should be underestimated. There will be times where you will want to short hop or possibly even full jump. There are also times where you want to just spotdodge or roll.
Let's look at the Robin example; the majority of the time, Robin will throw some multi-hitting projectile at you. If you simply shield, all you're going to do Is give Robin stage control and/or damage for free, especially off of arc fire. You can't do much of anything after blocking an arc fire/thunder other than either sit there and wait or attempt to roll back if you angled your shield so that the projectile won't just hit you out of your roll for free.
None of these are good options and basically lead to you waiting till arc fire runs out so you can start playing. Robin knows this too and will just pull a rosa by stalling hard when books run out. It's not a very fun or efficient way to play the match-up. So instead why not simply jump or roll?
These options are more risky in general than shielding but you get better rewards when using them correctly. One thing to note about Robin's projectiles is that they are all laggy on cooldown. Also, none of them can hit you during a full jump so you can actually do a neutral full jump when you feel an arc fire is coming and that should give you a free aerial if you follow up accordingly.
However, another important thing about utilizing the jump is that you force Robin to consider it before deciding on a course of action. If you're going to be on the ground 100% of the time you've already given up one possible layer to your mix-up. Which in turn makes it easier for your opponent to pick strategies which cover your options.
Rolling provides much of the same benefit, if you roll correctly against one of Robin's projectiles, that's typically going to be a free klaw, you might even be able to get a turn-around grab or down b as well. This also, if employed correctly, forces Robin to adapt to you and try to figure out when you will roll. Then suddenly Robin's train of thought might go from "Well, he's going to either shield or run away from my arc fire but either way it's safe!" To "Well he's mixing me up with these jumps and rolls, I'm going to need to get a read on those options so I can punish them."
Now don't misunderstand, I'm not saying to stop shielding and just spam jump and/or roll the entire match. You still need to play neutral and predict your opponent's options in order for these strategies to work, and Robin can still easily punish either option. However, simply making Robin consider those two options at all gives you an edge because now you have a mix-up.
You might even get a situation where Robin predicts you trying to roll and tries a roll punish instead of playing the usual spacing game with arc fire, which would lose to your roll.
Now one thing I should add is that you need to be wary of Thoron. That's definitely one projectile you'll generally want to block since that's the most reliable method of dealing with it. That being said, jumping over thoron is doable and lets you close the gap while Robin is stuck in the animation but is also more risky because you might get hit mid jump or simply jump too early and be forced to land against Thoron, which kinda sucks.
Of course, Thoron is slower than human reaction so if jumping over it consistently on reaction is possible then jumping gets a lot better, but is still riskier than shielding unless your shield energy is critically low.
Long story short, the "best options" may not always exactly be the best options. Mix-ups are powerful even in the simplest forms, apply them in as many ways as you can.
Hope this helps!
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
So my third full-Corrin tournament.
Holy ****, I'm doing terrendabad.
Holy ****, I'm doing terrendabad.
BarSoapSoup
Smash Journeyman
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
Well, yeah. I've been grinding the **** outta her. This **** would've never happened if I just went Bowser and/or Yoshi.
'dat first-day Corrina tho.
'dat first-day Corrina tho.
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Dε√ilj∦o
Smash Journeyman
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,176
WAT
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
It's this, but with our own Fsmash. Use Fsmash to physically move past their shield and then you get pushed offstage while they're still in shieldstun, canceling Fsmash' animation into an immediate Bair for the shield break. It's actually a blockstring. Not mechanically hard to do but it depends entirely on yours and their spacing
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,176
I.E. very situational.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
You mean Pokeman Lucina, rite.
That's a heavy load to take in.
I think my problem right now is I'm not as accustomed to the game as others are. Some are moving like they know the game down to the frame. I kind of just react. I guess I'm old fashioned, but I learn through playing the game.
I haven't devoted as much time to this game as I would like. I like this a whole lot more than I did Brawl. Melee will always be top choice, though.
Anywway, it's just alot of frustrations. I think I should attend some events to really soak in some things.
I think my problem right now is I'm not as accustomed to the game as others are. Some are moving like they know the game down to the frame. I kind of just react. I guess I'm old fashioned, but I learn through playing the game.
I haven't devoted as much time to this game as I would like. I like this a whole lot more than I did Brawl. Melee will always be top choice, though.
Anywway, it's just alot of frustrations. I think I should attend some events to really soak in some things.
arcticfox_14
Smash Cadet
Not saying you're wrong, but what makes us +2 on G&W besides an extreme weight differential?
I think the weight differential alone makes this matchup fairly good, possibly +1. I think what makes it +2 though is the neutral. This is a character that has no real projectiles. The matchup itself plays out like one vs a sword character or CF except G&W lacks the range or the speed of those characters. Bowser is both faster and outranges G&W. Pivot grab is a nightmare for an approaching G&W. This matchup was already good pre patch, but now 3 grabs and he's in kill range, and it's very hard for G&W to avoid being pivot grabbed.
Cronoc
Smash Journeyman
Big Sean
Why is Pac-Man so high there? I have some small disagreements but most significantly I'd rather switch Pac-Man and ROB's places. Pac-Man has some jank and unique stuff, but I've played some good ones and never thought I was disadvantaged in the way I feel against the other characters on the -1 list.Also not really feeling Duck Hunt being on -1. It's a unique matchup, but Bowser will live to 150%+ every stock and that's plenty of time to deal with him. It's more a test of the player's patience than Bowser as a character. I'd rather have Villager/Ness/Ryu there than Duck Hunt, the Links or Fox. Admittedly I've never played a great Fox, but he's light, a pivot grab magnet, and has very little offstage game. I know he's higher tier and all, but I'd put a number of the characters in the 0 spot above him.
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
Already nitpicked the chart in the Bowser discord. But on the subject of active projectiles, that's precisely why I would separate the links. Link can't run around and zone us the way Toon Link can. He's painfully slow, his boomerang isn't a hitbox on the way back, his bombs have a shorter fuse time and less reward on hit. He wants us to come to him, and we're at our best when we can keep the other guy close. Definitely even if you think Tink has an advantage.
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,176
Toon Link has to get in close to land a melee attack though. Like in your face close. Get him uncomfortable, make him want to attack you and punish him for his mistake.
Cronoc
Smash Journeyman
Toon Link will always run away to grab a bomb before approaching, and the bomb approach is inherently safe or at worst a 50/50. It's a little rough. Look at the way Hyuga plays, he always has a bomb out. It even helps with recovery. There's no reason for Tink to not have a bomb in hand at all times.
herpyderpherper
Smash Apprentice
What is the Bowser discord?