Social Bowser's Castle

[pitfall356]

Followup at low percents if the opponent fails to tech, and often if they do tech anyways. Beats out other dash attacks usually. Can't think of anything else off the top of my head though.

 

[Jerodak]

Dash attack is fast and reaches pretty far, so you can use it as a surprise attack or as a quick punish option.

You can also use it to cover landings, if your opponent is out of jumps. It's active enough to catch low air dodges and covers a lot of space quickly.

It's not a bad move if you make the most of it, just don't throw it around in neutral. Dash attacks are usually terrible in neutral anyway outside of punish situations or occasional zone breaking.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I always liked Bowsers Dash Attack, even in Brawl. Yes, I sometimes have a habit of simply throwin' it out there, but a lot of times it lands (when it lands and when I dont totally whiff it because I threw it out right an inch before reaching my opponent, I mean). It has deceptive range and duration.

 

[Jerodak]

@Dr Dank I keep reading your name as "Darkwing Duck"

 

[MrEh]

I always liked Bowsers Dash Attack, even in Brawl. Yes, I sometimes have a habit of simply throwin' it out there, but a lot of times it lands (when it lands and when I dont totally whiff it because I threw it out right an inch before reaching my opponent, I mean). It has deceptive range and duration.

Old Dash Attack was one of those insane anti-airs that not a lot of people knew about. The move beat nearly everything, lingered forever, and covered landings from really good distances. Issue being that Dash Attack was a load of poo in most other situations.

New Dash Attack is great for disrupting spacing though.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Whats the benefits of using Bowser's dash attack? I find that move really, really bad. As Bowser my only close up approach is grab wich will beat shields by any way, or Klaw for roll reads, but that dash attack.. Ugh.

- Grabs lose to attack. Smart opponents will space attacks to stuff your grab. Dash attack can beat this.
- Opponents may space outside of your instant dash grab range. You can attempt to punish with an instant dash attack. Boost grab will work as well, but you may run into the first problem.
- Projectile spammers will try to throw something at you to keep you away. If they're too close, you can dash attack, often hitting them while clanking with the projectile. Lloyd rocket is different since you will just pass through without clanking unless the projectile has activated.

TL;DR, it's a decent zone-breaking move with good horizontal reach, and provides an option against people that try to throw out low priority ground/aerial hit boxes to stuff grabs.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

- Attacks lose to grab. Smart opponents will space attacks to stuff your grab. Dash attack can beat this.
- Opponents may space outside of your instant dash grab range. You can attempt to punish with an instant dash attack. Boost grab will work as well, but you may run into the first problem.
- Projectile spammers will try to throw something at you to keep you away. If they're too close, you can dash attack, often hitting them while clanking with the projectile. Lloyd rocket is different since you will just pass through without clanking unless the projectile has activated.

TL;DR, it's a decent zone-breaking move with good horizontal reach, and provides an option against people that try to throw out low priority ground/aerial hit boxes to stuff grabs.

No need for a tl;dr, I appreciate your complete response. Thank y'all.

Funny thing: I actually killed a Rosalina once with dash attack, she was at about 120% and she absolutely flew to the top of the screen and died. That was unexpected.

 

[Jerodak]

No need for a tl;dr, I appreciate your complete response. Thank y'all.

Funny thing: I actually killed a Rosalina once with dash attack, she was at about 120% and she absolutely flew to the top of the screen and died. That was unexpected.

She was probably charging a smash attack. Dash attack can become a decent K.O with rage if you hit a character while they are charging a smash attack. It's usually more optimal to charge fsmash and punish them on whiff but that doesn't work on everyone and can be difficult to do. The trade off is if you run in with dash attack right when they decide to release the smash, then you may get hit or trade unfavorably.

You can also try grounded down b, while intentionally missing the first hit if they are charging a forward or down smash. The idea is that the rising part moves you out of the way, then you land on them with the falling portion. Most forward and down smashes don't hit above the character. Just make sure you're being fully aware of the situation.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

The grounded Down B is an option I use a lot near the ledge depending on my opponent's ledge get up habits. And Bomb also goes out of the way of get up attack to land on them with Bowser's gigantic butt. But using it on opponents charging smashes is nt something that I do, i usually just grab them or side B depending on the situation. Running Upsmash is an option too, but I find Bowser's dacus not that great.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

So yeah, anyone with a capture card?

 

[B!squick]

Bowser didn't make Top Whatever at Genesis. Time to nerf Greninja's USmash again, Sakaurai.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

So yeah, anyone with a capture card?

If you have replays of these matches, I can do it. I remember reading your post and not knowing what exactly you were talking about.

 

[Jerodak]

If you have replays of these matches, I can do it. I remember reading your post and not knowing what exactly you were talking about.

Do you also have a 3ds capture card?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Do you also have a 3ds capture card?

No, an el gato. Any system that can be displayed on a television screen with an A/V, component, or HDMI output.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

If you have replays of these matches, I can do it. I remember reading your post and not knowing what exactly you were talking about.

Id be really grateful. What I meant was, you know that option the WiiU/3DS has where you can upload the matches to a database where anyone can see it and download it? You know, with the filters and all. Forgot what it was called. A friend looked them up for me yesterday, and theyre there (he doesnt have a capture card, unfortunately).

Theres probably around 4-5 Bowser-Pika matches (one tournament match from two weeks ago, included) and a Yoshi Bo3. Im pretty cool with just the Bowser matches, though.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Id be really grateful. What I meant was, you know that option the WiiU/3DS has where you can upload the matches to a database where anyone can see it and download it? You know, with the filters and all. Forgot what it was called. A friend looked them up for me yesterday, and theyre there (he doesnt have a capture card, unfortunately).

Theres probably around 4-5 Bowser-Pika matches (one tournament match from two weeks ago, included) and a Yoshi Bo3. Im pretty cool with just the Bowser matches, though.

Alright. PM me your NNID so that I can get the replays. We'll also need some way where I can send you the video files. They'll be too large to send over email.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Alright. PM me your NNID so that I can get the replays. We'll also need some way where I can send you the video files. They'll be too large to send over email.

I dont have a WiiU. ): The matches are labeled as Kipa vs. Oz...my friend asked me for the NNID as well, but he didnt need it in the end. Its that menu where you download/upload matches where anyone can upload, regardless of the duration. You have to filter to find the specific matches by Country/Region > Character and stage.

I can PM you the details if you need them. Sorry I cant be more specific, I dont own a WiiU to check at the moment. Actually, this is pretty much what there is to it:

- Oz (Bowser/Yoshi) vs. Kipa (Pikachu)
- Matches took place in starters like Smashville, Town & City, BF & FD
- Country is U.S

 

[a stray cat]

Bowser didn't make Top Whatever at Genesis. Time to nerf Greninja's USmash again, Sakaurai.

I was one set away from round 2 pools, so I think I got 193rd? Not great, but I think I played okay for being "back" for a week. Better than I played at Paragon for sure.

 

[BarSoapSoup]

Two questions.

Should I try to become a solo main with Bowser? Or rather, would it be smart to do so? Whenever I play online I very rarely pick Mewtwo, so I'm not sure if I should bother keeping up practice with him. He might stay as a screw-around character.


Do you guys think I should join Anther's Ladder? I haven't really given much thought to it before, plus I use the gamepad. Thoughts?

 

[Zethoro]

Solo-maining Bowser is a bad idea. He has too many troublesome matchups. Also, if you play online, Anther's is superior to FG in every way. I highly reccommend it.

 

[B!squick]

Well, now that Bowser has those sweet options after UThrow, what WOULD you need a secondary for? Back in Brawl days the general advice when facing Bowser was "don't get grabbed if you don't want to take a bunch of damage, assuming his follow ups were buffered properly and he knows the correct ones for the match-up." Now it's "don't get grabbed if you want to live."

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Is Pit a good secondary for Bowser? This the character im looking into as a secondary. He has everything going for him, good frame data, a combo throw, a kill throw, amazing smash attacks, disjoincts, a projectile, a reflector/windbox... What do you guys think?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Is Pit a good secondary for Bowser? This the character im looking into as a secondary. He has everything going for him, good frame data, a combo throw, a kill throw, amazing smash attacks, disjoincts, a projectile, a reflector/windbox... What do you guys think?

Hes not that great, lol. Similiarly, hes also pretty good, though. Just find a character that deals with your bad/worst MUs or fully commit to Bowser and work through those.

Also, Id reeeaaaaally like to see more U Throw BAIR. We could kill at like 60 with that ****.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Theres litteraly no one in this roster I like enough to make it my secondary, except Ike, Palutena and Pit, so Idk. My main worst matchups are Samus, Lucas and ZSS. Ness can be annoying too but its ok.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

In that case, you ought to pick the one you feel comfterble with the most for that one certain MU. I have Yoshi as my other main, and he pretty much patches up everything.

 

[pitfall356]

I think Bowser is solo viable as long as you work really hard on your troublesome MUs so you can overcome them. I still struggle a bit with Fox and Sheik, and I've fought hundreds of them. They're tough, and good at exploiting our flaws, but we can hit them harder. Don't let them land the finishing moves and we can win MUs like those with a little blood, sweat, and tears.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I actually thought that Yoshi could possibly be the secondary I need Oz, so Im glad you're telling me that. But my hatred for Yoshi has grown up a lot in this game, so starting to play him will be weird haha. But yeah really I think Yoshi can handle my worst Matchups.

 

[B!squick]

Sometimes it can be good to just stop playing for a month or two. You can develop bad habits without meaning to, even if you recognize you're doing them. You just get so use to the wrong inputs. Taking a break can help you start fresh. Give you a new perspective.

And if you want a home away from home I recommend Brawlhalla. It's free, takes about 5 minutes download. Pretty decent Smash-like game.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I am so tired of finding the same persons other and other again on my FG. My matchmaking problem isnt solving at all. Today I had battles with the most cancer-inducing Ness and Rosalina possible, I just gave up and battled with my amiibo. Its funnier and challenging.

Here it is btw.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/03/1453318472-img-20151202-00014.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/03/1453318491-img-20151202-00015.jpg

This is Bowzie. I custimized it.

 

[Zethoro]

I think Bowser is solo viable as long as you work really hard on your troublesome MUs so you can overcome them. I still struggle a bit with Fox and Sheik, and I've fought hundreds of them. They're tough, and good at exploiting our flaws, but we can hit them harder. Don't let them land the finishing moves and we can win MUs like those with a little blood, sweat, and tears.

The problem with this mindset is that you're relying on the fact that "I know the MU against this character more than they know about Bowser." That's not a very safe way to play it.
Bowser can be solo-mained, just like anyone else. He just isn't as good at it as about half the cast.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I like Bowser's chances as a solo main because he doesn't have to approach matchups very differently. No matter who you are, you can't afford to get grabbed by Bowser, you have to respect OoS Fortress, you can't let him get too much rage, and Jab is a scary move to get around in the neutral. And when it comes to killing him, a lot of characters start getting Melee Marth syndrome, most prominently sheik, who has no kill setups past a certain point of damage on Bowser. Consider instead Ness as a solo main. Ness is probably as high as two tiers above Bowser, but he has an almost unwinnable matchup against Rosalina. Any time he's forced to recover with Up B, she can take it away from him. A lot of projectile oriented characters have unwinnable or absurdly difficult matchups against her, Villager, and sometimes G&W, they need secondaries. Bowser isn't in this position against anybody. ZSS, our worst matchup, is tough because of the same reasons it's tough for anybody. Her neutral is scary, her combos and kill confirms even more so, and she's not easy to edgeguard or read without putting yourself at risk.

If you're serious about competitive Smash 4, I would always recommend secondaries, but I would never say it's necessary for Bowser, not now.

 

[Zigsta]

Bowser's not solo viable because the best characters in the game take various degrees of steaming dumps on him. You should only solo main him if you love him and/or are superhumanly stubborn.

 

[pitfall356]

I've been playing against a buddy of mine who's pretty serious about his Falco, and I find that any character with fast aerials that also have no lag are nearly impossible to punish, as there aren't any good ways to hit the blindspot diagonally up in front of Bowser. I can't even fortress OoS because he can follow up so quickly with jab/grab.

That said, we go back and forth in who wins games, but it's disheartening to say the least.

 

[B!squick]

Just watched this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPg1Q2oUVfo

Solo main Bowser all day fellas. I believe.

 

[Zigsta]

Just watched this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPg1Q2oUVfo

Solo main Bowser all day fellas. I believe.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS MrEh that raw Bowser Bomb to winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

You should totally go for raw Bowser Bomb as a mixup against Egg Lay, BTW. There was a handful of times he would just wait for you to break out. No one ever expects you to come out and sit on them.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Somebody's been reading our threads on the Bowser Boards. I'm quite pleased to see his Bowser video is not just focused on Uthrow, but on all of Bowser's tech. When it was over, I was surprised that the run time for the video was only 5 minutes. It covered so many topics that I'm struggling with thinking of things he missed. None of which are big picture stuff or relevant outside of a few matchups.

 

[pitfall356]

Biggest issue he seemed to miss was the short skidstop animation. Other than that, yeah, I think he sweepingly covered the big issues and hopefully it will lead to fresh blood being pumped into our board.

 

[MrEh]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS MrEh that raw Bowser Bomb to winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

You should totally go for raw Bowser Bomb as a mixup against Egg Lay, BTW. There was a handful of times he would just wait for you to break out. No one ever expects you to come out and sit on them.

I should just Bomb more in general.

I'm already an old washed up fraud. It won't hurt.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Shenanigans.

I don't think DarkMusician knew how to respond to those empty runs.

 

[MrEh]

No one knows how to respond to empty runs. LOL