Bowser Shield Game Project

[Riddle]

After getting some input in the General Discussion thread I was encouraged to make this a group project, so without further ado:

THE BOWSER BOARDS SHIELD GAME PROJECT

Intro​

Bowser is considered to have on of the best OOS games in Brawl. His combination of quickness and range, as well as his Up-B,the fortress, make him really stand out. This project has been made to collect information to figure out exactly what Bowser can do when his shield is attacked.

This is where you guys come in. There is a lot of information to be collected on what exactly Bowser can do out of his sheild. I am looking to compile exactly what he can do that is guaranteed, that his what attacks will always hit when used against a specific move. This will help to advance his shield game. This is going to be similar to the SH Fair OOS list made by Flayl, but a lot more comprehensive. I need you all to tell me what you are researching and then when you have data, it can be added with a quick summary. It would be ideal to have someone check the data, but that might be asking a little to much.

I think the initial things we should look into are Up-B, Jab(s), F-Tilt, and fair, but if you want to do something else go ahead. I'll keep a list of what people are researching in the first post. If you provide data you will, of course, be credited.

Researchers:

~Riddle - f-tilt
~JayDeth - Jab(s)
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[Riddle]

Reserved. I hope I need it.

 

[Riddle]

Reserved. Just in Case.

 

[B!squick]

Soooooo, what do you need then? Things that are "guaranteed to advance his shield game" is a bit vague I think.

 

[Miles.]

When someone hits your shield fortress them.

Repeat.


What else is there?

 

[Miles.]

When someone hits your shield fortress them.

Repeat.


What else is there?

 

[Shök]

*Repeats twice*

 

[mountain_tiger]

When someone hits your shield fortress them.

Repeat.


What else is there?

Predictable, much?

I think that apart from Fortress and SH Fair, perhaps SH Nair could be useful too. Its hitbox lasts quite a while, so if your opponent tries to spotdodge they'll get hit by the weaker hitbox afterwards.

And can you do Flying Slam without the shield drop frames? Because technically it's a grab, but I don't really know. I may have to check that.

 

[Riddle]

Soooooo, what do you need then? Things that are "guaranteed to advance his shield game" is a bit vague I think.

I mean things guaranteed to hit.

 

[B!squick]

I mean things guaranteed to hit.

Oh, then almost nothing. Fortress isn't even guaranteed against a well spaced DK or Wolf BAir and some others.

 

[Riddle]

Oh, then almost nothing. Fortress isn't even guaranteed against a well spaced DK or Wolf BAir and some others.

Have you seen the Sh Fair OOS list. It seems like there is plenty to me.

 

[Cassius.]

Isn't Jab OoS kinda good? I was practicing sheild dashing with Bowser and you could do a Jab OoS...but I'm not particularly sure on how fast it is/its length...

THEN AGAIN, why jab when you can F/D Tilt, amirite?

Although I guess it is worth research, unless someone has a way to answer my question quickly [aka saying its just useless]

 

[Ixisnaugus]

THEN AGAIN, why jab when you can F/D Tilt, amirite?

In a lot situations going for the first jab can prove the better (and safer) route.

I'd help out with shield studies, but i'm more focused on sharpening my jab canceling skills at the moment. i may have found a proper use for the second jab

Of course if you need help with anything just say the word.

 

[B!squick]

Notice how it's an estimated 17 frames to do the SH Fair OoS? An aerial SideB or UAir hits on about the same frames. And the topic even mentions that it's a shorter range than FTilt which hits sooner.

 

[Flayl]

You're forgetting shield drop lag, so FTilt OoS = FAir OoS lag-wise and >> Aerial OverB or UAir OoS

 

[Riddle]

Hey Flayl, Would you mind if I put the info from your Sh Fair OOS list in the OP? It would give people an idea of what we want, and start the ball rolling. It's up to you of course though.

 

[Flayl]

It's not ready yet, the only character that's done is Meta Knight, I'm waiting on the Snake mains to finish up their frame data.

 

[Riddle]

It's not ready yet, the only character that's done is Meta Knight, I'm waiting on the Snake mains to finish up their frame data.

Any data is better than nothing. I would say that it was incomplete, but if you don't want it to go up, I won't put it up.

 

[B!squick]

I wouldn't say Bowser has many things that are guaranteed though. Being guaranteed would mean the oppponent has 0 frames of freedom to respond. Even if we up it to the average person's reaction time (13 frames, I did the math a little while ago) we would still leave out the SH FAir OoS.

Though I don't know. I guess it would also depend on what attack you were shielding. I'm guessing you want to do something like Flayl's list only for the rest of his OoS options?

 

[Riddle]

Though I don't know. I guess it would also depend on what attack you were shielding. I'm guessing you want to do something like Flayl's list only for the rest of his
OOS options.

That's exactly what I want.

 

[B!squick]

I guess I can do Jab. How much is the shield drop lag?

 

[Flayl]

7 frames.

10framecounts

 

[B!squick]

Wha? So Jab OoS would be 13 frames not including hitstun? x_x

 

[Flayl]

Shield hit stun (frames in which you can't jump/drop shield) - shield hit lag (these are the "freeze" frames) - remaining duration of the attack = frame advantage for the attacker

If the advantage turns out to be -13 or worse, you can hit them with Jab OoS.

 

[Riddle]

You must also take into consideration if a well-spaced move leaves them close enough to hit.

 

[B!squick]

I'll work on the math first since range will be much harder.