HideousBeing
Smash Ace
Bowser owns Kirby in the air approach. Also, Kirby is dead when Bowser gets him off the edge. Bowser's edgeguard skills dominate the pitiful puffball.
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Bowser Question of the year
- Thread starter Gojira
- Start date
- Status
NES n00b
Smash Master
I thought Game and Watch does better overall. Bowser does better in some high tier battle, but I think Game and Watch is still better overall.
Edit: Kirby does suck bad. Lol
Edit: Kirby does suck bad. Lol
Speedsk8er
Smash Champion
Ness is definitely worse then bowser, considering Ness has virtually nothing against bowser, or a lot of the higher tier characters.. And Game and Watch gets ***** by Pretty much Mid Tier On
-Wolfy-
Smash Champion
All I'll say is I'm in no position to argue with the oppinion of the pros on Kirby's standing in the world, and Bowser is just as dead against Kirby once he's off the edge, but Kirby definitely doesn't have as much of an approach. But I'll concede my Kirbal efforts. I'll find a new low-tier to argue.
Edit: I won't even attempt to plead Ness' case, I'd say worst recovery in the game. I'd say worse than even GaW or Kirby.
Edit: I won't even attempt to plead Ness' case, I'd say worst recovery in the game. I'd say worse than even GaW or Kirby.
BigRick
Smash Master
Ness and G&W are better than Bowser...
Kirby sucks, every1 should know that.
And SPELLCASTER NEOS I wanna see you apologize to every1 in this thread rite now!!!
Kirby sucks, every1 should know that.
And SPELLCASTER NEOS I wanna see you apologize to every1 in this thread rite now!!!
Ness is most definitely not better then Bowser, thats an easy one..
Like i said GaW is a harder match-up and can be a strong match against bowser, but has worse fights in the higher tiers.
Your last two points however
ARE SO SPOT ON I SHOULD HUG YOU
Like i said GaW is a harder match-up and can be a strong match against bowser, but has worse fights in the higher tiers.
Your last two points however
ARE SO SPOT ON I SHOULD HUG YOU
how well a character does vs bowser has literally nothing to do with how i chose those spots.
gw below bowser? well, maybe i'm stretching on that one, but i'd say its pretty close, and i'd be willing to put him above.
but ness is a piece of garbage character that has been overrated for way way WAY to long by anyone that plays ness
gw below bowser? well, maybe i'm stretching on that one, but i'd say its pretty close, and i'd be willing to put him above.
but ness is a piece of garbage character that has been overrated for way way WAY to long by anyone that plays ness
I never said that it did?
wasn't directed at you specifically, people were talking about kirby vs bowser again
why does that matchup have such random significance?
next time a bowser player and a kirby player actually meet in tourney let me know
why does that matchup have such random significance?
next time a bowser player and a kirby player actually meet in tourney let me know
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
Kirby sucks period. Glad to see someone didn't put Link in the low Tier. Link is not a low Tier character. Ness is and Bowser is..But Link? Bah.
Well..now I know Bowser is better than Mewtwo but how is he worse than Yoshi?
Meh all these low tier talks make me hungry.
Well..how does Bowser do in Low Tier Tourneys?
Well..now I know Bowser is better than Mewtwo but how is he worse than Yoshi?
Meh all these low tier talks make me hungry.
Well..how does Bowser do in Low Tier Tourneys?
i agree with you mostly
But i am having a hard believing that Bowser is better then Zelda and Ness (Ness mostly)
Both are very quick and powerful and seem to be decent characters...
Anyone have some reasons???
Redragon
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
Ness and Zelda have horrible lag when recovering.
Ness projectiles suck, his grab game is eh. His recovery is predictable.
Ness is ***** everyone from the mid tier up..except maybe Jiggs. Maybe..
Ness can't edgeguard very good.
He has only one good smash attack..Only one.
Zelda has only a Good Fair and Bair for spamming.
Recovery is good but laggy when landed on land.
Sucky-B, Foward-B mostly use for edgeguarding.
Ok Smashes..
Slow, slow, Wavedash stinks.
Grab game is meh, only B-throw is good and maybeD-throw.
Uair is laggy, Bair usless and small spike hitbox.
Ness is the most overrated character in the game because ness players talk about how fast and amazing he is. He has dumb arials that dont combo very well, poor finishers, limited approach, he is easy to outspace and easy to kill in general. He is REALLY easy to edgeguard and has poor edgeguarding ability himself.
Bowser actually has great range great edgeguarding lives forever and is hard to edgeguard if you recover properly. He doesn't really combo, but he doesn't really need to. A couple hits and they are off the edge, from there they die. I'm not trying to make bowser sound good, but omg ness is a TERRIBLE character.
Zelda is just to limited, her options are as follows. Toe.
the end.
She has toe, she can grab occasionally, but her grab game is horrible, she has terrible edgeguarding and she reliese on "i hope this fsmash lands" mindgames to get kills if she doesn't want to just toe spam all day. toe toe toe, wheres the variety? easy to space against, easy to kill.
I'm not really planning on starting a dumb tier discussion, I was just trying to point out that Bowser is nowhere near the worst char in the game, and only somebody who has NO IDEA how to play them and has never played against one that knows what it is doing would say that
Bowser actually has great range great edgeguarding lives forever and is hard to edgeguard if you recover properly. He doesn't really combo, but he doesn't really need to. A couple hits and they are off the edge, from there they die. I'm not trying to make bowser sound good, but omg ness is a TERRIBLE character.
Zelda is just to limited, her options are as follows. Toe.
the end.
She has toe, she can grab occasionally, but her grab game is horrible, she has terrible edgeguarding and she reliese on "i hope this fsmash lands" mindgames to get kills if she doesn't want to just toe spam all day. toe toe toe, wheres the variety? easy to space against, easy to kill.
I'm not really planning on starting a dumb tier discussion, I was just trying to point out that Bowser is nowhere near the worst char in the game, and only somebody who has NO IDEA how to play them and has never played against one that knows what it is doing would say that
ohpistachios
Smash Apprentice
its been said too many times that tier lists are based on tourney results. but given that fact, you cant argue about his current tier position.
but if we're talking about POTENTIAL (which is itself a very vague but somewhat useful term), which I assume we are, I personally can't see bowser being much higher than he is.
i don't know enough about zelda, ness, or mewtwo, and it's pretty well accepted that pichu and kirby are both just crap. but i've gotta contend with gimpy's placement of g&w.
g&w may die way too easily, but he's got great combo potential, can't be comboed too easily, has powerful moves with excellent disjointed hitboxes, and is pretty speedy as far as characters go. a lot of his matchups are much better than some would like to believe.
but if we're talking about POTENTIAL (which is itself a very vague but somewhat useful term), which I assume we are, I personally can't see bowser being much higher than he is.
i don't know enough about zelda, ness, or mewtwo, and it's pretty well accepted that pichu and kirby are both just crap. but i've gotta contend with gimpy's placement of g&w.
g&w may die way too easily, but he's got great combo potential, can't be comboed too easily, has powerful moves with excellent disjointed hitboxes, and is pretty speedy as far as characters go. a lot of his matchups are much better than some would like to believe.
i'm surprised so many people are talking about zelda and ness and not game and watch, that was really the only character that i consider half a stretch to move bowser above him
lol
lol
Well Ness and Zelda are decent players that have no real faults while Game and Watch is VERY LIGHT, has a horrid shield, horrid roll, bad recovery, and 3 of his aerials cannot be l-canceled.
Imo Game and watch is a very bad character with little potential...
Redragon
NES n00b
Smash Master
I argued the G&W, Gimpy. 
If this fact comforts you.
You are right about the other characters. They are even worse than Bowser and G&W. Lol
If this fact comforts you.You are right about the other characters. They are even worse than Bowser and G&W. Lol
Gojira
Smash Lord
So.....
I like your tier list GImpy that was a nice way to put this.
Anyways it seems we all agree Bowser is not a tourney level character even though he can win vs some tourney level characters........So that is all i guess.
KevinM you goign to be at OC3?
I like your tier list GImpy that was a nice way to put this.
Anyways it seems we all agree Bowser is not a tourney level character even though he can win vs some tourney level characters........So that is all i guess.
KevinM you goign to be at OC3?
Zane Fleia
Smash Journeyman
Huzzah! A conclusion! (As if we weren't already concluded.) ^_^
Gojira, not sure at the moment, it doesn't seem possible since i'm broking myself on the FC trip.
I guess i could start the, send the RI smashers to Cali fund?
WOOT for being one of only two who was hesitant on GaW placing
I guess i could start the, send the RI smashers to Cali fund?
WOOT for being one of only two who was hesitant on GaW placing
Speedsk8er
Smash Champion
Why are you so mean...?
HEY! I kinda argued GaW too!!
I think I might need to leave this thread. Seeing as Ness is one of my favorite characters, this Ness-bashing depresses me. Sure, he's definitely not a good character but think he deserves a LITTLE credit.
As a side note, Gimpy, there seems to be an underlying hatred for either Ness or Ness mains. Why is that?
-Wolfy-
Smash Champion
I would argue for GaW too. Besides the fair the aerials are mostly ko move,I.E the parachute, and since he's so light he isn't as much of an offensive character since GaW is a character that does NOT want to get sent vertically. Being that he is easily killed, his strategy adjusts accordingly. I believe GaW should be above Bowser.
Zane Fleia
Smash Journeyman
I'm always pro GaW, but I still think Bowser's a bit better. I just like him for the hammer. XD
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
lmao Bowser is not better than G&W. That's just taking it too far.
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
Well I was speaking in ridiculous exagerations. I don't really beleive Bowser was the worst character. He is much better than Kirby and Mewtwo (Not really sure about Pichu but I'll take Gimpy's word for it). I just wanted to change the subject.
Bowser being better than Zelda. Sure he has more useable moves for strategy but Zelda's fair/bair ***** Bowser since it beats out Bowser's fair and since fair/bair are always spaced, the fortress will not reach Zelda if done after a shield. Someone enlighten me on why Bowser beats Zelda.
i'll say again, how well a character does against bowser has literally nothing to do with that list
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
Yes, that is completely true. Since it is true, why doesn't the fact that Kirby, Mewtwo, and Pichu having slightly better matchups against Fox, Falco, and Shiek count for anything even if they still get *****?
-Wolfy-
Smash Champion
This discussion has bypassed casual Bowser chatter and gone right to Tier Wars 2 Bottom Tier Edition. Oh, and someone I will not name has told me it upsets Gimpyfish when you capitalize the F. So.... GimpyFish.
THAT IS ALL.
THAT IS ALL.
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
You put Bowser above G&W and placed him at second on your bottom tier. Above G&W? That's a ridiculous exaggeration. The reason I said Pichu/Mewtwo/Kirby are better than Bowser is because they are faster, more agile, and have more faster moves (yes I said that right, they have more moves that are faster get it?
) and are not as easily comboed as Bowser. And they have better recoveries. In higher level/tournament play, I believe that those three have more potential to be successful than Bowser. Bowser can be very easily overwhelmed in battle and gets comboed to hell. He's like the size of Jupiter and his slow speed and extremely heavy weight don't help much.Agree 100%You put Bowser above G&W and placed him at second on your bottom tier. Above G&W? That's a ridiculous exaggeration. The reason I said Pichu/Mewtwo/Kirby are better than Bowser is because they are faster, more agile, and have more faster moves (yes I said that right, they have more moves that are faster get it?
Well said my friend!!!
Redragon
HideousBeing
Smash Ace
This is interesting. I always thought I would find Bowser the easiest character to beat with Zelda. 0.o
Indeed, on the character matchup chart, she is rated 8 against Bowser. All her other matchups are under 7. I was real surprised to hear that Bowser is supposed to beat Zelda. Here's how I see that matchup in Zelda's favor. Bowser acts as a sponge for all of Zelda's magic attacks. Her jab is super good at forcing Bowser to keep his distance on the ground, and her forward smash sweetspot is tooooo easy to pull off. Retreating or simply well spaced fairs/bairs are safe, because Bowser isn't fast enough to punish (don't tell me, "but Gimpyfish is!") and the move can be repeated fairly quick in the air. Zelda's nair is usually a risky maneuver, but on Bowser is much more safe and often hits with most hits. Same thing with nayru's love.
I mean, really. Bowser vs Zelda is supposed to be a slaughter in Zelda's favor. I don't understand how it could be otherwise. I'm not saying my Zelda could beat a pro Bowser at all, but seriously, how am I to believe that Bowser beats Zelda?
Edit: This matchup chart: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=92025
Indeed, on the character matchup chart, she is rated 8 against Bowser. All her other matchups are under 7. I was real surprised to hear that Bowser is supposed to beat Zelda. Here's how I see that matchup in Zelda's favor. Bowser acts as a sponge for all of Zelda's magic attacks. Her jab is super good at forcing Bowser to keep his distance on the ground, and her forward smash sweetspot is tooooo easy to pull off. Retreating or simply well spaced fairs/bairs are safe, because Bowser isn't fast enough to punish (don't tell me, "but Gimpyfish is!"
) and the move can be repeated fairly quick in the air. Zelda's nair is usually a risky maneuver, but on Bowser is much more safe and often hits with most hits. Same thing with nayru's love.I mean, really. Bowser vs Zelda is supposed to be a slaughter in Zelda's favor. I don't understand how it could be otherwise. I'm not saying my Zelda could beat a pro Bowser at all, but seriously, how am I to believe that Bowser beats Zelda?
Edit: This matchup chart: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=92025
Speedsk8er
Smash Champion
Well, as Gimpy said, the list isn't based on the Bowser vs Zelda match-up. If that was the case with the actual tier-list, Ylink would be above Peach, right? The list is based on the number of matches in that character's favor.
Figured I'd say that before Gimpy gets angry and Fsmashes everyone.
Figured I'd say that before Gimpy gets angry and Fsmashes everyone.
Your an idiot...You put Bowser above G&W and placed him at second on your bottom tier. Above G&W? That's a ridiculous exaggeration. The reason I said Pichu/Mewtwo/Kirby are better than Bowser is because they are faster, more agile, and have more faster moves (yes I said that right, they have more moves that are faster get it?
Bowser does not get overwhelmed easily, he doesn't die at low percentages like Pichu who dies at 60 percent. Mewtwo is ridiculously floaty, doesn't have many killable moves and isn't mained by anyone besides Taj who is too good. Kirby is absolute crap, laggy, dies easily, not strong enough, predictable recovery.
Your whole post is pretty much biased and ignorant garbage. I've played the other characters, and i play them quite well, Bowser is just flat out better then them.
GaW is debatable we've admitted that, so its not a gross exageration.. so learn to think
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
Here is my question...
How does Bowser do in lower tier tourneys?
How does Bowser do in lower tier tourneys?
Well, according to Phanna's Character match-up chart,Bowser only does well against Kirby and Pichu.
So to answer your question: He does pretty dang bad lol.
Redragon
Gojira
Smash Lord
Pichu- He has fast moves, pretty **** fast moves but he has ZERO RANGE compared to Bowser. He has a MAJOR lack of killing moves, and dies at VERY VERY low % because he is the lightest character and is a bit floaty. Pichu's recovery is close to bowsers....at best.You put Bowser above G&W and placed him at second on your bottom tier. Above G&W? That's a ridiculous exaggeration. The reason I said Pichu/Mewtwo/Kirby are better than Bowser is because they are faster, more agile, and have more faster moves (yes I said that right, they have more moves that are faster get it?
Mewtwo- Mewtwo lacks that one key thing.....aproach. Also mewtwo is light and floaty......there are those two words again.....Yeah sure mewtwo is fast and can combo pretty well and has a really nice tech chase....but uh. . . .there is the lack of killing moves problem here as well........
Kirby- Fast moves do not do jack crap if you cannot combo with them at all.......Kirby is light and floaty, has (again) the lack of killing moves, ALL of his throws are crap, not one usable B move(not really important i guess) and his recovery IS worse then Bowsers. I Hardly ever fail to edguard kirby. Once his 5 jumps are gone, all he has is his Up-B and that is really easy to see coming.
Bowser- HAS killing moves, a few good aproaches, and aGOOD RECOVERY. However Bowser can be comboed like you mentioned, but, he can only be comboed to a certain extent before he can start to get out of comboes. As for recovery, every Bowser I watch must have luck on their side because they dont seem to have trouble getting back to......stage.....I have no trouble doing so either......
Bottom line Bowser is a bad character but he IS in no way worse then those three characters. Just Because you have faster moves does not make you better. Ness is the seoncd fastest player in the game overall on attacking speed. Is he better then Fox.......no
Phanna's chart sucks, noone bases their opinions on it accept utter and total noobs. It was a worthy attempt but so much of that is wrong its not funny.
So your argument on the Phanna chart holds no water. Ask a pro what they think of the chart, hell go on the Hub and mention it, a lot of people will laugh at you.
Me and Gojira pretty much answered 56 as well.
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